Forums > Model Colloquy > How does it feel to pose nude?

Photographer

OLDFOLIO

Posts: 45

Bālā Morġāb, Bādgīs, Afghanistan

I had an interesting experience the other day, and I just wanted to explain how it came to be. But if you don't feel like reading, just skip to somewhere around the bottom. smile

A model I had organised for a shoot backed out at the last minute, leaving me high and dry for an assignment I had due in a few days time.

While it didn't specifically call for nudity, I wanted to explore it because the assignment was to do with Black and White Printing on Fine Art paper, with fine grained film, and skin seemed to suit it.

I was telling a good friend of mine from my course the situation - more just venting than anything - and she volunteered to stand in. I was careful to explain to her that my original ideas involved some level of tasteful nudity, but that they could be adapted to levels she was more comfortable with, but she felt like it was something she was curious about, and agreed to just go with the original plan.

I'd taken nudes before, but every other time, the girl had some expereience or was very open minded, and I was usually way more nervous than they were. smile But this time, the model was a good friend, who had never posed nude before.

It started off slowly, with her in a robe and my back turned until she was in place. When she was ready, I turned around, and it was then that I first saw her boobs, and I have to admit it gave me a bit of a rush - not in a sexual way - but in an "I can't believe this is happening" way. Maybe it was because she was a friend, and it satisfied some curiousity I may have had about what she was like under the clothes, or maybe I'm just a typical guy. smile But I hid my amazement as best I could and got to work.

At one stage - before I'd even really seen more than boobs, I tried to direct her to pose a certain way while she held a piece of fabric in front of her. It wasn't quite working the way I'd planned, and I couldn't find the words to describe to her how I wanted her to hold it, but I was too scared to physically approach since she was naked, you know? smile After a minute or so, she just dropped the fabric and let me see her in her entirety. Jokingly frustrated she said, "Is this what you want"? We both laughed nervously, but from that moment on, things got a lot more comfortable, and the shots improved beyond believe.

But it occured to me during the shoot, that it must be so odd to take your clothes off and be photographed. But I wasn't really sure what feeling would stand out the most.... Fear, Insecurity, Excitement, Freedom or all of the above?

So my questions is, how does it feel to pose nude - especially when you are new at it? And is it better or worse to know the photographer well first?

I'd love to hear some feedback. smile

Ben

Jul 05 07 10:00 am Link

Model

Kelli

Posts: 24529

Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Nudity is not a big deal, unless someone makes a big deal out of it and then I don't want to work with them cuz they're obviously a pervert not interested in actually working!

Jul 05 07 10:04 am Link

Model

Amanda Vorhies

Posts: 287

Plattsburgh, New York, US

Posing nude feels incredible if your working with someone that can totally make your body look like its a work of art. And in return you feel sort of confident that makes the shoot go even better!

Jul 05 07 10:09 am Link

Photographer

Mike White Photo

Posts: 332

Chicago, Illinois, US

It wouldn't hurt for you to volunteer to pose for a nude session at your local art center as part of your "sensitivity training". They take all types ;-)
If that's too public for you, just find another friend/artist that you would pose for.
You won't forget the experience, and you'll have an idea of the vulnerability or possibly the enjoyment that comes with it.

Jul 05 07 10:09 am Link

Photographer

SFDigitalphotography

Posts: 349

San Francisco, California, US

Ben McPhee wrote:
I had an interesting experience the other day, and I just wanted to explain how it came to be. But if you don't feel like reading, just skip to somewhere around the bottom. smile

A model I had organised for a shoot backed out at the last minute, leaving me high and dry for an assignment I had due in a few days time.

While it didn't specifically call for nudity, I wanted to explore it because the assignment was to do with Black and White Printing on Fine Art paper, with fine grained film, and skin seemed to suit it.

I was telling a good friend of mine from my course the situation - more just venting than anything - and she volunteered to stand in. I was careful to explain to her that my original ideas involved some level of tasteful nudity, but that they could be adapted to levels she was more comfortable with, but she felt like it was something she was curious about, and agreed to just go with the original plan.

I'd taken nudes before, but every other time, the girl had some expereience or was very open minded, and I was usually way more nervous than they were. smile But this time, the model was a good friend, who had never posed nude before.

It started off slowly, with her in a robe and my back turned until she was in place. When she was ready, I turned around, and it was then that I first saw her boobs, and I have to admit it gave me a bit of a rush - not in a sexual way - but in an "I can't believe this is happening" way. Maybe it was because she was a friend, and it satisfied some curiousity I may have had about what she was like under the clothes, or maybe I'm just a typical guy. smile But I hid my amazement as best I could and got to work.

At one stage - before I'd even really seen more than boobs, I tried to direct her to pose a certain way while she held a piece of fabric in front of her. It wasn't quite working the way I'd planned, and I couldn't find the words to describe to her how I wanted her to hold it, but I was too scared to physically approach since she was naked, you know? smile After a minute or so, she just dropped the fabric and let me see her in her entirety. Jokingly frustrated she said, "Is this what you want"? We both laughed nervously, but from that moment on, things got a lot more comfortable, and the shots improved beyond believe.

But it occured to me during the shoot, that it must be so odd to take your clothes off and be photographed. But I wasn't really sure what feeling would stand out the most.... Fear, Insecurity, Excitement, Freedom or all of the above?

So my questions is, how does it feel to pose nude - especially when you are new at it? And is it better or worse to know the photographer well first?

I'd love to hear some feedback. smile

Ben

This is the kind of post I would have expected from someone in America, but seems that nudity is a big deal in Australia too.

In Europe this would just not even occur to anyone to say.

Jul 05 07 10:17 am Link

Model

ABeautifulDisaster

Posts: 239

Hamilton, Alabama, US

The first time I posed nude I was a bit nervous. Not super nervous-I was raised believing that the human body is a work of art, etc (I had hippie-artist-parents lol), so I was (and still am) comfortable with my body. It was just a little scary stripping for a total stranger.

The first 10 minutes or so of the shoot I stayed nervous. Trying to hide certain body parts with my poses. Then as I continued doing it I started having fun with it and stopped caring. Not like I spread my legs porno-style, but I stopped analyzing every pose I was going to see what would be showing and how I could cover it up!

Now I enjoy it. Assuming it's with a photographer I like. And that it's a more artistic style. It's kind of liberating smile

Jul 05 07 10:23 am Link

Model

Reven

Posts: 758

For me it is the same as posing in clothes but I just have to be more aware of form in some ways, where my skin is folding, making sure it isn't a vag shot (photographers I work with don't like those), basically, posing nude feels so  much more beautiful than posing in clothes.

Jul 05 07 10:25 am Link

Photographer

OLDFOLIO

Posts: 45

Bālā Morġāb, Bādgīs, Afghanistan

Mike White Photography wrote:
It wouldn't hurt for you to volunteer to pose for a nude session at your local art center as part of your "sensitivity training". They take all types ;-)
If that's too public for you, just find another friend/artist that you would pose for.
You won't forget the experience, and you'll have an idea of the vulnerability or possibly the enjoyment that comes with it.

I've done a few nudie runs in my time, but found it more of a laugh than anything. smile

As for posing properly for sensititivity training, It's not a bad idea. Just let me get to the Gym first. smile

Jul 05 07 10:25 am Link

Photographer

Mark Anderson

Posts: 2472

Atlanta, Georgia, US

Most of my clients are women who have never been nude with anyone but their husband.  At first they are shy.  The reason most say that they are is because they are nervous that they won't look good in the photos - not that they are nude.  Each shot is WiFi'd to the computer and they get to see each as we shoot them.  As soon as they see the beauty they bring to the shots they seem to forget the nudity aspect.  By the end of the shoot, without exception, they are relaxed and comfortable in their nudity.  Being professional and respectful are the keys to a successful nude shoot.   IMHO...

Jul 05 07 10:27 am Link

Photographer

OLDFOLIO

Posts: 45

Bālā Morġāb, Bādgīs, Afghanistan

SFDigitalphotography wrote:
This is the kind of post I would have expected from someone in America, but seems that nudity is a big deal in Australia too.

In Europe this would just not even occur to anyone to say.

I'm more interested in the human emotions behind it. Everyone is entitled to their opinion on nudity, and those who wouldn't pose probably won't have much to contribute to this. I just would love someone to help me put myself in their shoes.

Thanks for the replies so far. yikes)

Jul 05 07 10:27 am Link

Photographer

BMontgomery Photography

Posts: 157

Los Angeles, California, US

I agree with Shilo.  I think it is all in the presentation.  The human body is wonderful to behold...well, most are LOL.  But there is a big difference between nude and porn.  As far as shooting them, I did a woman who was eight-months pregnant.  That was very different for me because although I am a guy, there was no "arousal" factor.  I truly saw the art in it and I would love to experience it again.  I don't do nudes in my regular work because nothing I shoot calls for it, especially in my commercial assignments

Jul 05 07 10:29 am Link

Photographer

Mr Banner

Posts: 85322

Hayward, California, US

at first, nervous.

after about 2 minutes it's like.  I'm nude, so?

I don't really think it matters whether it's a friend or not, after 2 minutes, no one cares.

Jul 05 07 10:31 am Link

Photographer

Marcus Jones Glamour

Posts: 54

Houston, Texas, US

Thats what I believe it is about mostly. Just what youy said. "Let me get in the gym first" I think most people have something they are ashamed about on their body to let someone see in fear they might think negative about it. It might be a stretch mark or maybe somethiong isnt as firm as they want it to be or not as full or whatever the case may be. Some girl are like ewwe my butt is showing. Getting past feeling judged about your figure is probably the first step.



Ben McPhee wrote:

I've done a few nudie runs in my time, but found it more of a laugh than anything. smile

As for posing properly for sensititivity training, It's not a bad idea. Just let me get to the Gym first. smile

Jul 05 07 10:40 am Link

Photographer

Mr Banner

Posts: 85322

Hayward, California, US

Ben McPhee wrote:
As for posing properly for sensititivity training, It's not a bad idea. Just let me get to the Gym first. smile

Nah, just do it.

Jul 05 07 10:43 am Link

Model

HippieChick

Posts: 2281

I, for whatever reason, was not the least bit uncomfortable. I rather enjoyed it!  Felt VERY freeing and a little bit naughty smile  It makes me feel confident.

-Hippie

Jul 05 07 10:43 am Link

Photographer

Mike White Photo

Posts: 332

Chicago, Illinois, US

Ben McPhee wrote:
I've done a few nudie runs in my time, but found it more of a laugh than anything. smile

As for posing properly for sensititivity training, It's not a bad idea. Just let me get to the Gym first. smile

I like the trusted friend route (no need to work out). Also, posing for drawing seems easier than for photography. If you can pose five minutes, you can pose all day.

Jul 05 07 10:48 am Link

Photographer

FemmeArt

Posts: 880

Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US

Kelli wrote:
Nudity is not a big deal, unless someone makes a big deal out of it and then I don't want to work with them cuz they're obviously a pervert not interested in actually working!

Someone being interested in nudity does not make them a pervert--it makes them human.

Jul 05 07 10:50 am Link

Photographer

Dan Lippitt

Posts: 3266

Pontiac, Michigan, US

Ben McPhee wrote:
I had an interesting experience the other day, and I just wanted to explain how it came to be. But if you don't feel like reading, just skip to somewhere around the bottom. smile

A model I had organised for a shoot backed out at the last minute, leaving me high and dry for an assignment I had due in a few days time.

While it didn't specifically call for nudity, I wanted to explore it because the assignment was to do with Black and White Printing on Fine Art paper, with fine grained film, and skin seemed to suit it.

I was telling a good friend of mine from my course the situation - more just venting than anything - and she volunteered to stand in. I was careful to explain to her that my original ideas involved some level of tasteful nudity, but that they could be adapted to levels she was more comfortable with, but she felt like it was something she was curious about, and agreed to just go with the original plan.

I'd taken nudes before, but every other time, the girl had some expereience or was very open minded, and I was usually way more nervous than they were. smile But this time, the model was a good friend, who had never posed nude before.

It started off slowly, with her in a robe and my back turned until she was in place. When she was ready, I turned around, and it was then that I first saw her boobs, and I have to admit it gave me a bit of a rush - not in a sexual way - but in an "I can't believe this is happening" way. Maybe it was because she was a friend, and it satisfied some curiousity I may have had about what she was like under the clothes, or maybe I'm just a typical guy. smile But I hid my amazement as best I could and got to work.

At one stage - before I'd even really seen more than boobs, I tried to direct her to pose a certain way while she held a piece of fabric in front of her. It wasn't quite working the way I'd planned, and I couldn't find the words to describe to her how I wanted her to hold it, but I was too scared to physically approach since she was naked, you know? smile After a minute or so, she just dropped the fabric and let me see her in her entirety. Jokingly frustrated she said, "Is this what you want"? We both laughed nervously, but from that moment on, things got a lot more comfortable, and the shots improved beyond believe.

But it occured to me during the shoot, that it must be so odd to take your clothes off and be photographed. But I wasn't really sure what feeling would stand out the most.... Fear, Insecurity, Excitement, Freedom or all of the above?

So my questions is, how does it feel to pose nude - especially when you are new at it? And is it better or worse to know the photographer well first?

I'd love to hear some feedback. smile

Ben

try it and find out.

Jul 05 07 10:52 am Link

Photographer

James Suits

Posts: 64

Syracuse, New York, US

The first time I shot a nude model solo (i.e. not in a workshop setting) I asked her about her first time and what it was like.  She said she was definitely a little nervous but got used to it very quickly. 

The one time I was a nude model I had the camera on timer and shot them myself, so I can't give quite the answer you're looking for.

You also, mentioned you had difficulty expressing verbally how you wanted her to pose and didn't want to physically man-handle her into position.  Have you ever tried demonstrating the pose for her?  I am somewhat tall and lanky and can pose myself fairly easily.  Before having the model get into position, YOU get in there first to demonstrate exactly how you want it.  I have found this method to be very effective, and once you get passed the "guy" factor of having to pose yourself like a woman it seems to lighten the mood a little and puts the model more at ease.  That's my experience anyway.

Jul 05 07 10:54 am Link

Photographer

Mark Brummitt

Posts: 40527

Clarkston, Michigan, US

I recently photographed  a good friend of mine in her seventh month of pregnancy.  It was weird for all of 5 seconds and then it was totally normal.  I guess it's because both of us really wanted to get some great shots and that is what we concentrated on.

Jul 05 07 11:03 am Link

Photographer

Telephoto Studio

Posts: 1439

Raleigh, North Carolina, US

Ben McPhee wrote:
I had an interesting experience the other day, and I just wanted to explain how it came to be. But if you don't feel like reading, just skip to somewhere around the bottom. smile

A model I had organised for a shoot backed out at the last minute, leaving me high and dry for an assignment I had due in a few days time.

While it didn't specifically call for nudity, I wanted to explore it because the assignment was to do with Black and White Printing on Fine Art paper, with fine grained film, and skin seemed to suit it.

I was telling a good friend of mine from my course the situation - more just venting than anything - and she volunteered to stand in. I was careful to explain to her that my original ideas involved some level of tasteful nudity, but that they could be adapted to levels she was more comfortable with, but she felt like it was something she was curious about, and agreed to just go with the original plan.

I'd taken nudes before, but every other time, the girl had some expereience or was very open minded, and I was usually way more nervous than they were. smile But this time, the model was a good friend, who had never posed nude before.

It started off slowly, with her in a robe and my back turned until she was in place. When she was ready, I turned around, and it was then that I first saw her boobs, and I have to admit it gave me a bit of a rush - not in a sexual way - but in an "I can't believe this is happening" way. Maybe it was because she was a friend, and it satisfied some curiousity I may have had about what she was like under the clothes, or maybe I'm just a typical guy. smile But I hid my amazement as best I could and got to work.

At one stage - before I'd even really seen more than boobs, I tried to direct her to pose a certain way while she held a piece of fabric in front of her. It wasn't quite working the way I'd planned, and I couldn't find the words to describe to her how I wanted her to hold it, but I was too scared to physically approach since she was naked, you know? smile After a minute or so, she just dropped the fabric and let me see her in her entirety. Jokingly frustrated she said, "Is this what you want"? We both laughed nervously, but from that moment on, things got a lot more comfortable, and the shots improved beyond believe.

But it occured to me during the shoot, that it must be so odd to take your clothes off and be photographed. But I wasn't really sure what feeling would stand out the most.... Fear, Insecurity, Excitement, Freedom or all of the above?

So my questions is, how does it feel to pose nude - especially when you are new at it? And is it better or worse to know the photographer well first?

I'd love to hear some feedback. smile

Ben

Well I have lots of experience shooting nude models and have some posing experience as well. 

When I was a freshman in college, the first week of school a female grad student asked me to pose nude for her.  I agreed and told my room mates about it.  They were both younger than I - 18 and 17 (I was 19 at the time) - so they wondered how I was gonna get naked in front of a woman and not show my "interest".  They suggested I have a few drinks before going over there, and I did.  The photographer had some drinks for me too - since she apparently had similar concerns.  So needless to say - I had quite a buzz during the shoot.  The pics turned out OK, but I don't have any idea where they are now.

Then I would run into a few other female photographers at my school who wanted to shoot art nudes, but didn't really know how to go about it.  So they asked me because they knew I had shot many nude models (I was a TA over the years and people knew who I was).  I suggested that we could shoot together sometime - they pose for me and I pose for them.  Some of them had no idea how to shoot a nude model until they themselves had been in front of a camera to see what it felt like.

Then one time well after I left school I was working with a model and a female assistant.  I wanted to get some baby oil on the model's skin - which was quite dry due to it being winter.  The female assistant had a hard time staying professional because she was bi and couldn't wait to get her hands on the model.  I asked her to leave and the model was glad I had done so.  But she had a hard time getting into the whole posing routine, so I asked her if it would help her if I posed for her while she shot pics of me.  So I posed for her and gave her an idea of what I was looking for her to do - experience and enjoy the freedom of being nude in front of the camera.   The pics turned out good, and she wanted copies of all of them - since she shot the pics of me.  She actually used those pics in her own portfolio for a few years.  When she dated a guy I knew, needless to say he was not thrilled that there was evidence out there that she had posed nude for others, and at least one person she posed for posed for her as well.  That suggested to him that there were other reasons why we were naked in the same room.

But it was a great feeling to pose for other artists - it does give the photographer a unique perspective on what the models feel.  I highly recommend it.

Jul 05 07 11:12 am Link

Model

Iona Lynn

Posts: 11176

Oakland, California, US

damon wrote:
at first, nervous.

after about 2 minutes it's like.  I'm nude, so?

I don't really think it matters whether it's a friend or not, after 2 minutes, no one cares.

Stop trying to make me like you more than I do already....

Jul 05 07 11:43 am Link

Photographer

Mr Banner

Posts: 85322

Hayward, California, US

Iona Lynn wrote:

Stop trying to make me like you more than I do already....

big_smile  I'd pose for you.  big_smile  does that help

Jul 05 07 11:46 am Link

Photographer

John Pringle

Posts: 1608

New York, New York, US

I love working with figure art, there is a greater chance to get to know the model without constraints and if your both comfortable, it feels safe all around.

Jul 05 07 11:47 am Link

Photographer

Ryan Colford Studios

Posts: 2286

Brooklyn, New York, US

I agree with the posing thing.  I did a nude photoshoot a long time back and I think it really helped to make me at ease on this side of the lens.  Also it helps in terms of giving direction and explaining/demonstrating to a model if you've been there.

Jul 05 07 11:53 am Link

Model

Ashley Haven Nudes

Posts: 2442

Queen Creek, Arizona, US

It's always interesting to me... I never even thought twice about posing nude when I first did. I always wonder if I'm strange or something, since so many people post things about how nervous they were to pose nude, or how it was so liberating. To me it wasn't liberating, it was just normal.

I asked my husband what he thought about my modeling when we first got together, and he admitted that it was a little odd how comfortable I am being nude in front of total strangers... 

I guess I'm just strange. Naked... and strange.  smile

Jul 05 07 12:00 pm Link

Photographer

Images by Yancy

Posts: 1703

Roseville, California, US

Kelli wrote:
Nudity is not a big deal, unless someone makes a big deal out of it and then I don't want to work with them cuz they're obviously a pervert not interested in actually working!

I find your comment interesting since on your port you have listed: "Kelli Exposed: New book just released with over 2 dozen of my hottest nudes!!!"

You have pics that are intended to be arousing yet it's somehow wrong to turn on the photographer, a person that is tryng to capture that hotness in the first place.

It's not just you, Kelli, it's a weird dichotomy that I see models state all the time.

Personally, I want to be visually infatuated with my model if I'm trying to capture something hot. It helps me "see" it. Doesn't mean I turn into the GWC pervyman. If I'm doing some kind of figure study, then it's different. But sometimes it's just about getting a hot image. Why is it wrong to acknowledge that?

Jul 05 07 12:01 pm Link

Photographer

The Divine Emily Fine

Posts: 20454

Owings Mills, Maryland, US

...I love being nude for a camera.
Yet, of course, most of mine are self portraits, as that is what I'm known for.

But damn, if I could model nude for someone else, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

Jul 05 07 12:03 pm Link

Photographer

Mr Banner

Posts: 85322

Hayward, California, US

Great Miss Qthulu wrote:
But damn, if I could model nude for someone else, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

so hey, how are you?  smile

Jul 05 07 12:04 pm Link

Photographer

ward

Posts: 6142

Toronto, Ontario, Canada

It feels like, I have no clothes on. smile

Jul 05 07 12:04 pm Link

Photographer

CGrey Art

Posts: 33

Tucson, Arizona, US

The majority of the models I've worked with have never posed before, nude or otherwise.  Many have said, afterwards, that posing nude was a cathartic experience.

Jul 05 07 12:11 pm Link

Model

Madame Bink

Posts: 171

Kendal, England, United Kingdom

SFDigitalphotography wrote:

This is the kind of post I would have expected from someone in America, but seems that nudity is a big deal in Australia too.

In Europe this would just not even occur to anyone to say.

Agreed, exactly what I was going to say.

Jul 05 07 12:13 pm Link

Photographer

UIPHOTOS

Posts: 3591

Dayton, Ohio, US

I posed nude for a girl I was dating at the time because she said it was only fair since she posed for me..

So now I have a feeling what those I ask to do it feel..

Because of that I keep the atmosphere really light hearted and fun like I do with every other shoot so it doesnt FEEL any different to those in front of my lens..

As the OP's model did once she just dropped the material and got the nervous tension out of the air.. From there it was just a shoot that happened to be nude..

I honestly forgot that I was nude and was just focused on trying to get a good pic.. Now that I am no longer 25, I wish I would have done it more often.. LOL

Jul 05 07 12:18 pm Link

Model

DELETE ACCOUNT

Posts: 5517

Eškašem, Badakhshan, Afghanistan

How does it feel to pose nude?
--
big_smile  Fantastic, Ben!

Jul 05 07 12:29 pm Link

Photographer

SP GRAPHICS

Posts: 563

Los Angeles, California, US

Would love to do that.  It's a challenge and intersting project for me.  I would love to hear more feedback from models.

Jul 05 07 12:29 pm Link

Photographer

DWolfe Photo

Posts: 872

Germantown, Maryland, US

HippieChick wrote:
I, for whatever reason, was not the least bit uncomfortable. I rather enjoyed it!  Felt VERY freeing and a little bit naughty smile  It makes me feel confident.

-Hippie

Electrifying Freedom and never-ending confidence?  Very cool.

Jul 05 07 12:32 pm Link

Photographer

Billy Monday

Posts: 2745

Frederick, Maryland, US

D Wolff wrote:

Electrifying maybe?

Good God David, when I saw you had posted to this thread I thought you were going to announce your new modeling profile!

Jul 05 07 12:33 pm Link

Photographer

DWolfe Photo

Posts: 872

Germantown, Maryland, US

Telephoto Studio wrote:
But she had a hard time getting into the whole posing routine, so I asked her if it would help her if I posed for her while she shot pics of me.  So I posed for her and gave her an idea of what I was looking for her to do - experience and enjoy the freedom of being nude in front of the camera.

Hmmm...no model ever wanted to see me SANS clothing. It's a great way to relax a new model though, putting her behind the camera and posing, albeit in clothing.  Last time I got naked on a beach, the Coast Guard showed up with their Marine Biologists.

Jul 05 07 12:44 pm Link

Photographer

DWolfe Photo

Posts: 872

Germantown, Maryland, US

Billy Monday wrote:

Good God David, when I saw you had posted to this thread I thought you were going to announce your new modeling profile!

Yeah...Dave the model.  Plus sized and available for artistic nudes. LOL.

Jul 05 07 12:45 pm Link

Photographer

American Glamour

Posts: 38813

Detroit, Michigan, US

It is interesting how many photographers have posted to this thread!

https://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/shu0052l.jpg

Jul 05 07 12:47 pm Link