Forums > Model Colloquy > Model gives release form to photographer

Model

Stephanie Marie Castro

Posts: 42

Los Angeles, California, US

Is it werid, inappropriate or smart for a model to give a photographer a release form. My friend is making her own so she and the photographer both have the right to use the pics from the photo shoot however they want. Is she crazy? lol If a model can give out release forms how should it go? What should it say? What rights does he/she have?

Mar 19 08 08:55 pm Link

Model

Kristen Jeanne

Posts: 5770

Pinardville, New Hampshire, US

Hmm I don't think many photographers would appreciate that.

Why doesn't she ask if she can go over the photographer's release before the shoot and then negotiate on the terms stipulated if she doesn't agree with them?

Mar 19 08 08:56 pm Link

Model

MelissaLynnette LaDiva

Posts: 50816

Leawood, Kansas, US

Stephanie Castro wrote:
Is it werid, inappropriate or smart for a model to give a photographer a release form. My friend is making her own so she and the photographer both have the right to use the pics from the photo shoot however they want. Is she crazy? lol If a model can give out release forms how should it go? What should it say? What rights does he/she have?

It is not weird.
It is not inappropriate.
But I don't think it's wise for a model to insist on it.
She will turn off worthwhile photographers that way.
Now, if she is flexible about it, that's another story.

I have no idea what it should say.

Mar 19 08 08:57 pm Link

Photographer

LinguaDentata

Posts: 6412

Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Yes, she's crazy.

A release is a "release of liability for use of one's likeness" Meaning you won't sue because your face is used somewhere.

A photographer can sign one, but since the model has no pictures of the photographer, it won't be of any use to her.

You're thinking of a contract, with joint copyright ownership. That won't happen either with any photographer who's been around the block, unless the model is paying.

Mar 19 08 08:57 pm Link

Wardrobe Stylist

Mel Monique - Stylist

Posts: 7

Tampa, Florida, US

yea I think the model may have contract & photo release mixed up.

i think its ok for a model to have her own contract..if not then negotiating a photographers photo release sounds like meeting each other half way.

Mar 19 08 09:01 pm Link

Photographer

RONALD NZ TAN

Posts: 2383

San Francisco, California, US

Even if my models (clients, etc) pay me (depending on the amount), I still won't give up rights, I'll negotiate usage fees, but never complete ownership unless a substantial financial compensation has been proposed.

Ronald N. Tan
www.ronaldntan.com

Andrew Vorobyov wrote:
Yes, she's crazy.

A release is a "release of liability for use of one's likeness" Meaning you won't sue because your face is used somewhere.

A photographer can sign one, but since the model has no pictures of the photographer, it won't be of any use to her.

You're thinking of a contract, with joint copyright ownership. That won't happen either with any photographer who's been around the block, unless the model is paying.

Mar 19 08 09:19 pm Link

Model

pretty pleads

Posts: 4868

Colorado Springs, Colorado, US

thats fair trade

Mar 19 08 09:20 pm Link

Photographer

Dean Johnson Photo

Posts: 62122

Minneapolis, Minnesota, US

pretty pleads wrote:
thats fair trade

Not really.

Mar 19 08 09:22 pm Link

Photographer

Lumigraphics

Posts: 32751

Detroit, Michigan, US

Anyone is free to come up with any arrangement they like. Whether they can get anyone else to agree might be questionable though!

I'm certainly willing to negotiate with a model but I'm probably not signing some contract they cooked up for joint ownership.

Mar 19 08 09:26 pm Link

Photographer

Angelina Heyd Photo

Posts: 123

Seattle, Washington, US

pretty pleads wrote:
thats fair trade

No, no it's not. You are also confused on contracts vs. release forms.

Mar 19 08 09:26 pm Link

Photographer

DVP Photography

Posts: 2874

Broomfield, Colorado, US

There is no point in a model giving a photographer a release form.  Meaningless.

If she wants a usage license for the photos, that's for a contract with the photographer.

No photgrapher I know of will give up the copyright unless paid for it.

Mar 19 08 09:30 pm Link

Photographer

Marietta Photography

Posts: 1174

Atlanta, Georgia, US

As long as she's up front about it ("...use them for anything we want") it would be ethical.

If she is just ensuring her rights to use the photos for anything she wants in self-promotion most photographers would sign it.  Some even include that in the release they provide.  I see a model asking for a photographer's release of the photos for personal use as quite professional.

It's all about setting expectations.  Professional nude shoot?  Be up front about it.  Expect a model to sign a release?  Be up front.  Can't make the shoot?  Be up front asap.  Plan on bringing an escort... be up front.  See a pattern? smile

Edit: one of the first models I worked with on TFP initially declined to shoot with me because she wanted all rights to the photos.  I moved along and she learned that it's not normal for a model to require rights.  We shot twice and she was delighted with the results.  Be up front!

Mar 19 08 09:31 pm Link

Model

Sabrina Maree

Posts: 9506

West Hollywood, California, US

She can do whatever someone will agree too.
I have made what some people would consider to be outrageous changes to contracts with photographers when they really wanted to work with me, and they were starting out   or photography students.
Not to a proven photographer though.

Mar 19 08 09:34 pm Link

Model

Lauren WK

Posts: 1961

Los Angeles, California, US

The terms are definitely wrong, as has been brought up.  I think there are certain things that a model can fairly ask a photographer to sign.  Most won't react well to you asking for shared copyright, but I've had photographers pull out their own things for them to sign, regulating their own usage, my usage, how long it will take them to edit photos, etc.

Mar 19 08 09:34 pm Link

Photographer

Minneapolis Nudes

Posts: 566

Minneapolis, Minnesota, US

Stephanie Castro wrote:
Is it werid, inappropriate or smart for a model to give a photographer a release form. My friend is making her own so she and the photographer both have the right to use the pics from the photo shoot however they want. Is she crazy? lol If a model can give out release forms how should it go? What should it say? What rights does he/she have?

IMO in lue of a contact signed by both parties, a model should print out all emaisl between them and the photographers, and espically the ones that go over usage and stuff, and make them sign it.

I would run from photogs who don't, or who don't have a contact.

Who said anything about giving out rights, more more rights than would normally be given out. This sounds more like a model who has been burnt by bad togs and wants something in writing.

Mar 19 08 09:38 pm Link

Model

Shafs

Posts: 317

Johannesburg, Gauteng, South Africa

a model release form is a model release form, it's pretty standard and will be handed over from the photographer to the model. There should be two copies, one fo rthe model and one for the photographer.

Now usage rights, copyright and intellectual property rights. This is something totally different and should be drawn up as a seperate contract/agreement between the two parties involved.

No photographer (as stated above) will just hand over these rights to models.
It would be advisable to sit down with whomever you choose to make such agreements with and discuss how you will work through it together. As each photoshoot is different, you will have to sit down with each photographer individually to get to a mutual agreement and if you have a bank balance huge enough, you can arrange to buy rights to all the images anyone will ever shoot of you. Will cost you a pretty penny though.

Question:
Why would a model want these rights anyway?

Mar 19 08 09:52 pm Link

Photographer

Mickle Design Werks

Posts: 5953

Washington, District of Columbia, US

Stephanie Castro wrote:
Is it werid, inappropriate or smart for a model to give a photographer a release form. My friend is making her own so she and the photographer both have the right to use the pics from the photo shoot however they want. Is she crazy? lol

Not crazy but unwise. Copyright law favors the creator (in the case of photography it's the Photographer) so already the Model is at a negotiating disadvantage.

Stephanie Castro wrote:
If a model can give out release forms how should it go? What should it say? What rights does he/she have?

The appropriate time to discuss usage rights is well in advance of the shoot.  A Model should ask to review any documents that are to be signed and be familiar with the common terms of a Model Release or Shoot Agreement.  The important thing to insure for the model that the use of the images are within a reasonable and acceptable terms for them. 

As a practical matter, forget about trying to secure a release from a photographer.  Good ones will not stand for it and a Model can easily be labeled "hard to work with."

Mar 19 08 09:53 pm Link

Photographer

c_d_s

Posts: 7771

Lubbock, Texas, US

Good luck with that.

Mar 19 08 09:57 pm Link

Model

Alexandra Maddison

Posts: 161

Burbank, California, US

I've done it. Never had any opposition in situations where I felt it needed, but my release is a bit different. It limits what the photographer may use the images for, ruling out use that would be deemed "explicit", or editing that would make the images explicit. Now, before anyone says it, I know that is a bit paranoid... but I have a friend who found herself on a porn site with a penis aimed at her mouth and no legal recourse to get the picture taken down. Soooo. I had my lawyer draw up a contract that I occasionally use for TFP with photographers I don't know very well.

Mar 19 08 10:49 pm Link

Photographer

LORANCE

Posts: 258

San Diego, California, US

It is always a good idea for the model to read the Release before the shoot, Ask questions if anything looks out of the ordinary, but if you ask for the photographer to be specific as to how they are going to be used, he may not be able to do that.  If you want to limit their use to non-commercial, self promotion etc, I always go along with that.  But I am not willing to accept responsibility for what happens to the image once I post it.  That is the reason for the "Any" use language in most releases.   

here is a copy of the "License" that I give models so that they know what they can do with the images that they receive form me:

IMAGE LICENSE  (tfcd)

Lorance Photography (“Photographer,”) the creator of the images above described (“Pictures,”) hereby licenses the copyright on some or all of the Pictures to the person above identified as the Model under the following terms:

Photographer will provide Model with a CD-ROM containing a low resolution copy of the Pictures (“Proof Images”) which are to be licensed to Model.   The Proof Images are not retouch and may not be posted to a professional model photographer networking website such as Model Mayhem or One Model Place.

The model may chose up to 10 images from the CD as Promotional and/or Portfolio Image.  These images will be emailed to the model both as low resolution, resized and color corrected Jpeg images suitable for posting to any web site, and also, in high resolution Jpeg format suitable for printing and not less than Two (2) Portfolio Quality 8 ½ x 11 Prints, unless in Photographer’s judgment there is no suitable subset of the Pictures to meet these goals, in which case Photographer shall make a good-faith effort to provide a reasonable number of Images from those Pictures which are suitable.

Model’s license shall include the right to display the Promotional and/or Portfolio Images for purposes of self-promotion. Model shall have no right to resell or re-license the Promotional and/or Portfolio Images for any other purpose, and this license shall be nonexclusive.  “Proof Images” may be posted to the models MySpace or Face Book or similar non-professional website without further permission so long as the copy right notice is not removed from the image.


Lorance Photography / date    _______________________________

Acceptance by Model / date    _______________________________

Mar 19 08 11:11 pm Link

Model

TxCiara

Posts: 3465

Austin, Texas, US

Do a search :http://search.plasticpuppet.com
This has been talked about a lot.

Mar 19 08 11:28 pm Link

Photographer

Lucas Chapman

Posts: 6129

Scottsdale, Arizona, US

pretty pleads wrote:
thats fair trade

No, thats ill-informed, un-educated, amateur foolishness...

Mar 19 08 11:32 pm Link

Photographer

Abbitt Photography

Posts: 11964

Oakland Acres, Iowa, US

A model release is all about protecting the photographer so most photographers are going to want their own release form to be signed.    I think it makes more sense for a model to ask to review the release before the shoot than bring your own.    If you don't like the way your images will be released, talk it over with the photographer or don't do the shoot.  Personally, I'm not doing a shoot if a model isn't going to sign my release.   

What I think a model should be more concerned about is the license agreement - be sure you have the ability to use images given to you in the manner that fits your needs.  A model could have her own form, but you might run into trouble if the photographer has licensing agreement included in his paperwork and it's not the same.

I think the best place to start is ask for copy of any paperwork the photographer has long before you get to a shoot and talk over any differences you may have.  If you don't have the license to use images in the manner you feel you need, don't do the shoot but walking into a shoot with both parties having separate and possibly contradictory forms is just asking for trouble.  Work it out before hand.

The rights each party has will be dictated largely by what the release and usage license say, so once again, take a look before the shoot.

Mar 20 08 10:16 am Link

Photographer

Ricardo Sevilla

Posts: 4628

Miami, Florida, US

Model giving me a release form giving up my rights? Never unless she's paying A LOT of money.

She wants limited license? My release form will offer her that.

Mar 20 08 10:43 am Link

Photographer

Gavin Thomas Photo

Posts: 106

New York, New York, US

sorry charlie.. dont waste your time making one...

Mar 20 08 10:45 am Link

Photographer

Hipgnosis Dreams

Posts: 8943

Dallas, Texas, US

Stephanie Castro wrote:
Is it werid, inappropriate or smart for a model to give a photographer a release form. My friend is making her own so she and the photographer both have the right to use the pics from the photo shoot however they want. Is she crazy? lol If a model can give out release forms how should it go? What should it say? What rights does he/she have?

It sounds like she is expecting shared copyrights.  I hope she is prepared to pay a premium per image for that sort of expectation.  Either that or I hope she knows some extremely foolish photographers.

Mar 20 08 10:45 am Link

Photographer

Tizzy Photography

Posts: 1132

Miami, Florida, US

pretty pleads wrote:
thats fair trade

Actually.. it is not. She wants the rights.. she can buy them from the photographer.
-Tizzy

Mar 20 08 10:47 am Link

Photographer

Dean Johnson Photo

Posts: 62122

Minneapolis, Minnesota, US

Shafs wrote:
a model release form is a model release form, it's pretty standard and will be handed over from the photographer to the model. There should be two copies, one fo rthe model and one for the photographer.

Now usage rights, copyright and intellectual property rights. This is something totally different and should be drawn up as a seperate contract/agreement between the two parties involved.

No photographer (as stated above) will just hand over these rights to models.
It would be advisable to sit down with whomever you choose to make such agreements with and discuss how you will work through it together. As each photoshoot is different, you will have to sit down with each photographer individually to get to a mutual agreement and if you have a bank balance huge enough, you can arrange to buy rights to all the images anyone will ever shoot of you. Will cost you a pretty penny though.

Question:
Why would a model want these rights anyway?

Both smart and beautiful!
smile

Mar 20 08 11:05 am Link

Photographer

Peter Tureson

Posts: 759

Aurora, Illinois, US

Stephanie Castro wrote:
Is it werid, inappropriate or smart for a model to give a photographer a release form. My friend is making her own so she and the photographer both have the right to use the pics from the photo shoot however they want. Is she crazy? lol If a model can give out release forms how should it go? What should it say? What rights does he/she have?

I'd suggest talking to the photographer about releases when/before scheduling the shoot.  If he/she doesn't have or use one, then bringing up yours for her/his review would be appropriate.  (I always bring up the subject of the release during my booking phone call.)

However, I would not suggest walking up to the photographer the day of the shoot and handing her/him your release.  Any last minute surprises are going to be viewed negatively.   Doing this, at best, it makes you look bad, and can ruin the mood of the shoot, and at worst, it could offend the photographer and get you sent home.

Just my $.02

Mar 20 08 11:18 am Link

Model

AD

Posts: 4259

New York, New York, US

this is why i ask to read a release before i agree to shoot, or go over the model release details ahead of time, this way if there is something about it i am not willing to sign we dont waste time shooting, or if there is somethign id like the release to include "(like the ability to use photos for magazine submissions with credit due to photographer of course) this can be discussed.

bringing yoru own is not the right course of action

Mar 20 08 11:21 am Link

Photographer

Olli Wendelin

Posts: 50

Charleston, South Carolina, US

Alexandra Maddison wrote:
I've done it. Never had any opposition in situations where I felt it needed, but my release is a bit different. It limits what the photographer may use the images for, ruling out use that would be deemed "explicit", or editing that would make the images explicit. Now, before anyone says it, I know that is a bit paranoid... but I have a friend who found herself on a porn site with a penis aimed at her mouth and no legal recourse to get the picture taken down. Soooo. I had my lawyer draw up a contract that I occasionally use for TFP with photographers I don't know very well.

Actually she may have legal recourse, I would recommend she talk to her lawyer about it. Use of your image in a defamatory manner (that is, it creates a false impression and injures your reputation) is not authorized by the unrestricted clauses in most model releases. Court cases have caused stock agencies and advertizers to require specific releases for some types of modeling. Two cases that come to mind are of a family portrait from a stock agency being used by the Ad Council (US Public Service Announcements) to depict AIDs awareness and child abuse.

Mar 20 08 12:33 pm Link

Model

QP Doll

Posts: 11

Martinsburg, Iowa, US

DVP Photography wrote:
No photgrapher I know of will give up the copyright unless paid for it.

rightly so, and if someone expected that, well, they must think they fart solid gold cupcakes.

Mar 20 08 05:47 pm Link

Photographer

KGToops Photography

Posts: 2439

Treasure Island, Florida, US

not signing anything

Mar 20 08 05:49 pm Link

Model

Emily Green

Posts: 787

Perth, Western Australia, Australia

I've started getting my photographers to sign a contract when we shoot.
It's not that I want them to give up their rights, but I wanna have equal over photos of me. Every photographer I've worked with has been happy to.

Jun 05 11 08:25 pm Link

Photographer

Keys88 Photo

Posts: 17646

New York, New York, US

WTF?

How did you even FIND a thread from over 3 years ago?

Jun 05 11 08:33 pm Link

Model

cameryn coxxx

Posts: 369

Delray Beach, Florida, US

if you are speaking of a model, that is self booking with photographers, then she can bring any kind of paperwork with her she wants, its all a negotiation. and all involved can choose to go forward or not.

When I shoot, I usually am contracted to model, for specific shoots, and the contracts detail how the work will be used, sold etc.

Jun 05 11 08:34 pm Link

Photographer

291

Posts: 11911

SEQUOIA NATIONAL PARK, California, US

an old thread for the unknowing.

a model release form is a photographer document that upon signature by the subject allows the use of likeness.  nothing more, nothing less.

anything beyond the above is something entirely different than a model release form.

Jun 05 11 08:42 pm Link

Photographer

Vanderplas

Posts: 1427

Hong Kong, Hong Kong, China

Heather Honey wrote:
if you are speaking of a model, that is self booking with photographers, then she can bring any kind of paperwork with her she wants, its all a negotiation. and all involved can choose to go forward or not.

When I shoot, I usually am contracted to model, for specific shoots, and the contracts detail how the work will be used, sold etc.

Soo.  Right

Jun 05 11 08:45 pm Link

Photographer

291

Posts: 11911

SEQUOIA NATIONAL PARK, California, US

Heather Honey wrote:
if you are speaking of a model, that is self booking with photographers, then she can bring any kind of paperwork with her she wants, its all a negotiation. and all involved can choose to go forward or not.

When I shoot, I usually am contracted to model, for specific shoots, and the contracts detail how the work will be used, sold etc.

Crystal Perido wrote:
Soo.  Right

perhaps soo [sic] right for negotiated documents of condition, but wrong in the context of a model release form. 

the reason being for keeping the release to its single most element of allowing use of likeness is to avoid clutter that can null and void the condition of likeness use if any parts of the document are not adhered to. 

anything beyond just the use of likeness should be provided under separate cover in order to keep the release intact, or reference the context of the release condition to appendix if so required.

Jun 05 11 08:53 pm Link

Photographer

AJ_In_Atlanta

Posts: 12925

Atlanta, Georgia, US

I guess a model could ask we use their release form or contract if its done in advace and they pay to have a lawyer review it.  I already spent that money and I am not going to do it again out of my pocket.

Jun 05 11 08:54 pm Link