Photographer

SME

Posts: 21245

Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, US

I need an MM break, I think.  Things that don't matter are starting to irritate me again.

Today's irritation?  The assumption that someone (whether model or photographer) who pursues their craft as an enjoyable hobby must suck.  That the only good models and photographers are full-time, bank-making professionals.  That if you pursue something you love purely for the love of it, you can't possibly be any good at it.

I think it is kind of a sad reflection on the state of our collective mentality that there is such a pervasive feeling that the only worth an activity has must be measured in dollars.

Just because someone pursues modeling or photography as a passion, rather than to pay the rent, doesn't mean they aren't serious or dedicated.  And it for damn sure doesn't mean they're no good.

Jul 17 08 02:13 pm Link

Photographer

Nadirah B

Posts: 28521

Los Angeles, California, US

Sita Mae wrote:
I need an MM break, I think.  Things that don't matter are starting to irritate me again.

Today's irritation?  The assumption that someone (whether model or photographer) who pursues their craft as an enjoyable hobby must suck.  That the only good models and photographers are full-time, bank-making professionals.  That if you pursue something you love purely for the love of it, you can't possibly be any good at it.

I think it is kind of a sad reflection on the state of our collective mentality that there is such a pervasive feeling that the only worth an activity has must be measured in dollars.

Just because someone pursues modeling or photography as a passion, rather than to pay the rent, doesn't mean they aren't serious or dedicated.  And it for damn sure doesn't mean they're no good.

Where are you getting that vibe from?

Jul 17 08 02:15 pm Link

Photographer

The Silencing Machine

Posts: 15759

South Amboy, New Jersey, US

Thank you for this.  I always was proud to be a hobbyist just because it gives me a lot of freedom to do what I want, with who I want, when I want.  But regardless, I still try my best to make every shot count.  Everybody needs a hobby.

Jul 17 08 02:15 pm Link

Model

alysia

Posts: 1039

Houston, Texas, US

Sita Mae wrote:
I need an MM break, I think.  Things that don't matter are starting to irritate me again.

Today's irritation?  The assumption that someone (whether model or photographer) who pursues their craft as an enjoyable hobby must suck.  That the only good models and photographers are full-time, bank-making professionals.  That if you pursue something you love purely for the love of it, you can't possibly be any good at it.

I think it is kind of a sad reflection on the state of our collective mentality that there is such a pervasive feeling that the only worth an activity has must be measured in dollars.

Just because someone pursues modeling or photography as a passion, rather than to pay the rent, doesn't mean they aren't serious or dedicated.  And it for damn sure doesn't mean they're no good.

Most photographers I shoot with do it for free, alot of them do it because they have alot of time on their hands and why the hell not, you get to hang out with pretty ladies! I've never payed for any of my shoots, they all came from hobbyists I guess you could call them. I think most photographers on here are hobbyists.

Jul 17 08 02:16 pm Link

Photographer

The Silencing Machine

Posts: 15759

South Amboy, New Jersey, US

LADY SWEET FACE wrote:

Where are you getting that vibe from?

You see it one here from time to time.  Especially whenever there is a GWC thread, people assume if you shot for free or are an amature it's a form of being a GWC.

Jul 17 08 02:16 pm Link

Photographer

Nadirah B

Posts: 28521

Los Angeles, California, US

The Silencing Machine wrote:

You see it one here from time to time.  Especially whenever there is a GWC thread, people assume if you shot for free or are an amature it's a form of being a GWC.

I didn't get that, I got that they were fussing at people doing "paid commercial, whatever work" for TFP

Jul 17 08 02:17 pm Link

Model

Less Than Two

Posts: 23401

Ann Arbor, Michigan, US

Some  of the most passionate artists I have ever met are hobbyests.
Whether money is exchanged in that aspect is besides the point.
I consider personal fulfillment to be a more important kind of wealth (providing that basic needs are met).

Jul 17 08 02:18 pm Link

Photographer

Chris Macan

Posts: 12795

HAVERTOWN, Pennsylvania, US

Sita Mae wrote:
Today's irritation?  The assumption that someone (whether model or photographer) who pursues their craft as an enjoyable hobby must suck.  That the only good models and photographers are full-time, bank-making professionals.  That if you pursue something you love purely for the love of it, you can't possibly be any good at it.

You suck,
I suck,
everybody sucks.........

It's good to suck...... cause we're having fun.

Jul 17 08 02:18 pm Link

Photographer

SME

Posts: 21245

Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, US

LADY SWEET FACE wrote:
Where are you getting that vibe from?

Irritating people.  lol

Jul 17 08 02:18 pm Link

Photographer

Abbitt Photography

Posts: 11822

Oakland Acres, Iowa, US

Agreed, and I'm glad you are not afraid to use the term hobbyist.  I think the majority of people here that are modeling or doing photography part time are more hobbyist, than professionals.  As you said, the amount of income, may not relate at all to the dedication or quality.   However, I think if more people would realize that what there doing here is really more of a hobby than profession, many of the issues involving models and photographers would be put in a more proper perspective.

Jul 17 08 02:19 pm Link

Photographer

The Silencing Machine

Posts: 15759

South Amboy, New Jersey, US

LADY SWEET FACE wrote:

I didn't get that, I got that they were fussing at people doing "paid commercial, whatever work" for TFP

I stay blissfully ignorant to threads like that.  I don't know enough about paid work or how the buisness works to put my two cents into those threads.

Jul 17 08 02:19 pm Link

Photographer

Damon Banner

Posts: 85307

Hayward, California, US

Sita Mae wrote:
I need an MM break, I think.  Things that don't matter are starting to irritate me again.

Today's irritation?  The assumption that someone (whether model or photographer) who pursues their craft as an enjoyable hobby must suck.  That the only good models and photographers are full-time, bank-making professionals.  That if you pursue something you love purely for the love of it, you can't possibly be any good at it.

I think it is kind of a sad reflection on the state of our collective mentality that there is such a pervasive feeling that the only worth an activity has must be measured in dollars.

Just because someone pursues modeling or photography as a passion, rather than to pay the rent, doesn't mean they aren't serious or dedicated.  And it for damn sure doesn't mean they're no good.

consumerism hard at work on the "artist" community.

Jul 17 08 02:20 pm Link

Photographer

Laura Ann Photography

Posts: 17921

Peoria, Arizona, US

I completely get where you're coming from.

I had someone message me a while back telling me that I would never be a real photographer because I wasn't going to school for it, and that I was just a hack.

It was completely out of the blue, and actually happened over facebook by someone I kind of knew in high school.

It was shitty to say the least.

And might I add, I'm proud to be a hobbyist.  I have the freedom to do what I want, when I want.

Jul 17 08 02:20 pm Link

Model

dewey duffy

Posts: 173

show me a painter who makes a living painting and I'll show you boring, repetitive and un inspired paintings!!!

Jul 17 08 02:21 pm Link

Photographer

Xeris - Dwight

Posts: 4369

Austin, Texas, US

Sita Mae wrote:
I need an MM break, I think.  Things that don't matter are starting to irritate me again.

Today's irritation?  The assumption that someone (whether model or photographer) who pursues their craft as an enjoyable hobby must suck.  That the only good models and photographers are full-time, bank-making professionals.  That if you pursue something you love purely for the love of it, you can't possibly be any good at it.

I think it is kind of a sad reflection on the state of our collective mentality that there is such a pervasive feeling that the only worth an activity has must be measured in dollars.

Just because someone pursues modeling or photography as a passion, rather than to pay the rent, doesn't mean they aren't serious or dedicated.  And it for damn sure doesn't mean they're no good.

Hear! Hear!

Jul 17 08 02:21 pm Link

Photographer

Mortonovich

Posts: 5682

San Diego, California, US

Sita Mae wrote:

The assumption that someone (whether model or photographer) who pursues their craft as an enjoyable hobby must suck.

Sita, would please quit being a goober? Always examine the source.

No one worth a shit actually thinks this way.

Jus' sayun.

Love ya.

Jul 17 08 02:21 pm Link

Photographer

Hillwoman2

Posts: 1018

Alexandria, Virginia, US

Sita Mae wrote:
I think it is kind of a sad reflection on the state of our collective mentality that there is such a pervasive feeling that the only worth an activity has must be measured in dollars.

I feel you on this. It's not just MM. People always look at me like I have two heads when I say I don't take clients and I don't want to. Photography is my love and it will stay that way by keeping money out of it.

Jul 17 08 02:22 pm Link

Photographer

Nadirah B

Posts: 28521

Los Angeles, California, US

The Silencing Machine wrote:

I stay blissfully ignorant to threads like that.  I don't know enough about paid work or how the buisness works to put my two cents into those threads.

What you shoot is besides what alot of the folks are fussin about

Jul 17 08 02:22 pm Link

Photographer

Nadirah B

Posts: 28521

Los Angeles, California, US

Chip Morton wrote:

Sita, would please quit being a goober? Always examine the source.

No one worth a shit actually thinks this way.

Jus' sayun.

Love ya.

lol

Exactly.
Sita your work IS worth money when an agency goes to use it to book work.

I understand Art and all of that jazz, but I thought they were more concerned with commercial

Jul 17 08 02:23 pm Link

Photographer

RStephenT

Posts: 3105

Vacaville, California, US

Sita Mae wrote:
I need an MM break, I think.  Things that don't matter are starting to irritate me again.

Today's irritation?  The assumption that someone (whether model or photographer) who pursues their craft as an enjoyable hobby must suck.  That the only good models and photographers are full-time, bank-making professionals.  That if you pursue something you love purely for the love of it, you can't possibly be any good at it.

I think it is kind of a sad reflection on the state of our collective mentality that there is such a pervasive feeling that the only worth an activity has must be measured in dollars.

Just because someone pursues modeling or photography as a passion, rather than to pay the rent, doesn't mean they aren't serious or dedicated.  And it for damn sure doesn't mean they're no good.

QFT.

Jul 17 08 02:27 pm Link

Photographer

MS Foto

Posts: 2224

Manchester, New Hampshire, US

OK, put your hands where I can see them, and sloooowwwly step away from the keyboard....
   LOL, seriously, sounds to me like you're a little burnt out, and just need a break. Knowing you and the work you do, stuff like this would never have gotten to you, in the past. Maybe a little fresh air would clear your head.....?

Jul 17 08 02:28 pm Link

Photographer

Why Dangle

Posts: 2791

Manchester, England, United Kingdom

Whoops.......... doesn't look like your enjoying your hobby too much at the mo.


Or is this a stamp my feet toys out of the pram thing ........... oh woe is me they won't take me seriously thing.

If you enjoy doing what you are doing for the reasons you stated , does it really matter anyway ?

Jul 17 08 02:28 pm Link

Photographer

SME

Posts: 21245

Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, US

LADY SWEET FACE wrote:

lol

Exactly.
Sita your work IS worth money when an agency goes to use it to book work.

I understand Art and all of that jazz, but I thought they were more concerned with commercial

I have no idea what you're talking about, babe.  LOL

Jul 17 08 02:31 pm Link

Photographer

SME

Posts: 21245

Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, US

Why Dangle wrote:
Whoops.......... doesn't look like your enjoying your hobby too much at the mo.


Or is this a stamp my feet toys out of the pram thing ........... oh wo is me they won't take me seriously thing.

If you enjoy doing what you are doing for the reasons you stated , does it really matter anyway ?

I enjoy my hobby.  Then I come on MM and have to wade through all the egos and pontification and...yeah, I should take a break from the forums.  You (and Chip and MS) are totally right.  The people who matter don't make such assumptions.

But fuck it.  I wanted to vent.  Tough noogies.  smile

Jul 17 08 02:32 pm Link

Model

Tia

Posts: 7932

Honolulu, Hawaii, US

Sita Mae wrote:
Just because someone pursues modeling or photography as a passion, rather than to pay the rent, doesn't mean they aren't serious or dedicated.  And it for damn sure doesn't mean they're no good.

I agree. I have given up modeling professionally because I am so serious about it & dedicated to it.. I do it because I want good pictures, I want to collaborate with people with work that resonates with me, I want to keep improving.

Doing it for profit for a while kind of destroyed all that for me. It became a job instead of fun, it became about the money.. about who would pay, not who I truly wanted to work with.. and the quality of my work went downhill, because my heart wasn't always into the shoot.

There is this attitude on MM that hobbyists are crap, and people making bank are the best. I don't buy it at all. My best work has always been from trade shoots.

Jul 17 08 02:32 pm Link

Photographer

freak e style

Posts: 80

Ontario, California, US

I am a hobbiest, and I am not really concerned about fame or fortune. I just want to create wonderful images that people will enjoy viewing.

"You don't need a ticket to ride with me, I'm free" -Ozzy Osbourne, Crazy Train

Jul 17 08 02:32 pm Link

Photographer

SME

Posts: 21245

Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, US

MS Foto wrote:
OK, put your hands where I can see them, and sloooowwwly step away from the keyboard....
   LOL, seriously, sounds to me like you're a little burnt out, and just need a break. Knowing you and the work you do, stuff like this would never have gotten to you, in the past. Maybe a little fresh air would clear your head.....?

Ahaha....

Yeah.

Jul 17 08 02:33 pm Link

Photographer

Nadirah B

Posts: 28521

Los Angeles, California, US

Sita Mae wrote:

I have no idea what you're talking about, babe.  LOL

Has someone approached you personally and said that you were a hack?

I've seen where people haven't progressed and have pictures from the 80's still in their portfolio. I think people are making more noise about that.

Jul 17 08 02:33 pm Link

Photographer

Nadirah B

Posts: 28521

Los Angeles, California, US

Laura Ann Photography wrote:
I completely get where you're coming from.

I had someone message me a while back telling me that I would never be a real photographer because I wasn't going to school for it, and that I was just a hack.

It was completely out of the blue, and actually happened over facebook by someone I kind of knew in high school.

It was shitty to say the least.

And might I add, I'm proud to be a hobbyist.  I have the freedom to do what I want, when I want.

You get paid to do weddings and whatever right? Now what if there a huge amount of folks who were in your area shooting weddings for free?

Jul 17 08 02:34 pm Link

Photographer

SME

Posts: 21245

Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, US

LADY SWEET FACE wrote:

Has someone approached you personally and said that you were a hack?

I've seen where people haven't progressed and have pictures from the 80's still in their portfolio. I think people are making more noise about that.

No, that's not what I'm talking about.  I'm talking about the constant belittlement of hobbyists.  Yes, there's an active thread that sparked this one, but it's a general and ongoing attitude on MM.

Jul 17 08 02:34 pm Link

Photographer

Nadirah B

Posts: 28521

Los Angeles, California, US

Sita Mae wrote:
No, that's not what I'm talking about.  I'm talking about the constant belittlement of hobbyists.  Yes, there's an active thread that sparked this one, but it's a general and ongoing attitude on MM.

Honestly, I haven't seen that.

I've seen people question more about the QUALITY of photo then a person being a hobbyist

Jul 17 08 02:37 pm Link

Photographer

SME

Posts: 21245

Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, US

LADY SWEET FACE wrote:

Honestly, I haven't seen that.

Okay.

I have.

Jul 17 08 02:37 pm Link

Photographer

Nadirah B

Posts: 28521

Los Angeles, California, US

LADY SWEET FACE wrote:

Honestly, I haven't seen that.

I've seen people question more about the QUALITY of photo then a person being a hobbyist

Jul 17 08 02:38 pm Link

Model

V I C T O R I A

Posts: 13979

Los Angeles, California, US

Sita Mae wrote:
I need an MM break, I think.  Things that don't matter are starting to irritate me again.

Today's irritation?  The assumption that someone (whether model or photographer) who pursues their craft as an enjoyable hobby must suck.  That the only good models and photographers are full-time, bank-making professionals.  That if you pursue something you love purely for the love of it, you can't possibly be any good at it.

I think it is kind of a sad reflection on the state of our collective mentality that there is such a pervasive feeling that the only worth an activity has must be measured in dollars.

Just because someone pursues modeling or photography as a passion, rather than to pay the rent, doesn't mean they aren't serious or dedicated.  And it for damn sure doesn't mean they're no good.

Word. Word. Word. Word. Word.

I've noticed that mentality as well. And it's a shame because this site is FILLED with so many talented hobbyists.

In a lot of ways, pursuing something as a hobby allows you the flexibility to work only with people you WANT to work with, because money isn't a factor, and to be pickier with when you shoot, who you shoot, what you shoot, etc. It allows you more control over these factors. Plus, it lets it be just a creative outlet, rather than something you HAVE to do.

Jul 17 08 02:39 pm Link

Model

V I C T O R I A

Posts: 13979

Los Angeles, California, US

Sita Mae wrote:

I enjoy my hobby.  Then I come on MM and have to wade through all the egos and pontification and...yeah, I should take a break from the forums.  You (and Chip and MS) are totally right.  The people who matter don't make such assumptions.

But fuck it.  I wanted to vent.  Tough noogies.  smile

Sita's vents are always filled with wisdom, imo.

Venting is good for the soul big_smile

Jul 17 08 02:40 pm Link

Photographer

Holix

Posts: 855

Los Angeles, California, US

I'm a published Hobbyist wink

Jul 17 08 02:40 pm Link

Photographer

Nadirah B

Posts: 28521

Los Angeles, California, US

Victoria Vertuga- Glam wrote:

Word. Word. Word. Word. Word.

I've noticed that mentality as well. And it's a shame because this site is FILLED with so many talented hobbyists.

In a lot of ways, pursuing something as a hobby allows you the flexibility to work only with people you WANT to work with, because money isn't a factor, and to be pickier with when you shoot, who you shoot, what you shoot, etc. It allows you more control over these factors. Plus, it lets it be just a creative outlet, rather than something you HAVE to do.

You've seen this mentality? I swear, I just haven't seen that.

I think you can be picky about who you want to shoot and what goes on hobbyist or not.

Jul 17 08 02:41 pm Link

Photographer

SME

Posts: 21245

Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, US

LADY SWEET FACE wrote:

Like I said, Nadirah, that's not what I'm talking about.  Maybe we read different threads, I dunno.  But what I'm talking about in this thread is the assumption that hobbyists aren't as serious or dedicated as their career-minded counterparts.

Just sayin' that ain't the case.  Now, when that comes up in a thread, I can just link to this instead of getting irritated all over again.

LOL

Jul 17 08 02:41 pm Link

Photographer

D Winge Photography

Posts: 893

Orange, California, US

It's all about the image, if I did it for a living would I have this much passion? I don't know, what I do know is the love, the fun and the reward of creating a beautiful image is my motivation.

Am I as good as the photographer with the studio and the Mercedes? I honestly do not care.

Jul 17 08 02:42 pm Link

Model

Playthings

Posts: 912

Montreal, Wisconsin, US

I'm a hobbyist,and I'm great.big_smile

Jul 17 08 02:42 pm Link