Forums > General Industry > affordability.

Photographer

Hot Pixel Photography

Posts: 48

Racine, Wisconsin, US

I just want to add that this is an awesome thread. I never saw it before and I want to than Alisyn for having it linked in her profile.

Thanks!!!

Nov 04 10 01:09 pm Link

Model

Joylyn

Posts: 1770

Denver, Colorado, US

Shandra Stark wrote:

Link everyone you know.  I bet I could pull ten more solutions out of my ass.

It's really not complicated to get what you want out of life, if you want it badly enough to take action.

I have not read this entire thread, but it makes me happy to see people working together to find solutions.  This is lovely!!

Feb 01 11 01:00 pm Link

Model

Mercy

Posts: 2079

Albuquerque, New Mexico, US

The trading for space works for models as well. I host models, maus, photographers, designers, whatever! I also try to stock my house with food appropriate to their dietary needs and wants. smile

~Mercy

Feb 01 11 02:10 pm Link

Model

rhus

Posts: 1823

Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US

Not sure if this was mentioned... I have an arrangement with a couple photographers in my general area that allows us to build a really good working relationship without breaking the photographer's bank.  I'll shoot with them on a semi-regular basis, say once a month or so, and I get less than my typical rate but I have a reliable future gig.  Our shoots stay fairly short, which keeps me fresh, and I love seeing the way our work develops over time.

Feb 02 11 06:32 am Link

Photographer

Blue J Productions

Posts: 14

New York, New York, US

Model Affordability for Photographers has had a big financial impact on every level ! Especially in the Photography/Modeling industry and the economy here in the states as a whole!!!!

I am very flexible to the Model's hourly rate / half or full day rates concerns, because without them our,PHOTOGRAPHER'S,Creativity Valve would totally be shut-off... I am always willing to make every effort to work with a model, offering a workable rate or a barter exchange ( clothes,lingerie, flash drives, food, a place to stay for a few days...etc...

Yes, I also  offer my models a stay at a "private " residence, which is totally vacant and used for the model's use only,when they are Traveling through my area in Northeast Pennsylvania!

I am now interested in trying to set up some Figure Workshops ( my first) for this upcoming 2011 Summer, so if you are Model traveling through to NYC, let me know... maybe we can schedule you in !

The Model Mayhem Community strives to reach out to all and as such I am really glad I became part of Model Mayhem !

Tx Rob from Blue J Productions

Feb 15 11 09:38 am Link

Photographer

TMG

Posts: 493

Cheltenham, England, United Kingdom

Positive thread, with some good suggestions.

If I were a photographer looking to sell portfolios to models, though, I wouldn't be telling them how to go about finding ways to afford me. I'd be finding out what they really want, or what the market they are aiming for demands from them in terms of images. Then I would be focussing on developing my skills, my marketing, my overall image, so that I was better placed than my competitors to pick up what work there was.

It's hypothetical, because I don't have the ability or inclination to do that, but that's where I'd focus.

Feb 15 11 12:40 pm Link

Photographer

FBY1K

Posts: 907

Kaiserslautern, Rhineland-Palatinate, Germany

Shandra Stark wrote:
bunny

The only thing I do not do on your post is barter (I do not have anything). The rest are sage words indeed. All the best!

Feb 15 11 12:50 pm Link

Photographer

PK_Foto

Posts: 479

Rancho Cucamonga, California, US

Great post!

Mar 17 11 08:13 pm Link

Model

Brightonn

Posts: 234

New Orleans, Louisiana, US

Lumigraphics wrote:
OP, you should write a book. You and TX. And maybe PYPI. smile

I'm good with all that hoopla: transition, grammar, spelling (ok, I use spell check) and working on my masters in writing while full time modeling currently.  We should write a book!  Seriously.  Publishing through an online source would help in this case for sure.  Think of the number of hours that models spend on these forums.

Mar 25 11 07:04 pm Link

Photographer

William Blackrose

Posts: 113

Waco, Texas, US

one thing I wanted to add to this information is a simple one...

Thrift shops, garage sales and pawn shops are your friends.

I have friends in almost every pawn shop in town and get the heads up when something interesting gets sold to one of them.

perfect example from the other day. I have been thinking of upgrading my lenses. One of my pawn contacts told me a photographer had just sold a box of equipment to the shop and he said I could come look before it hit the shelf. I ended up getting a $300 lens I had been looking at for $65 and several other items out of the box at a huge discount from the retail rates. This guy had taken incredible care of his gear. The only thing I did not buy out of the box was the camera body because I already have a comparable one.

One of my models found an entire collection of runway fashions in a travel case at a garage sale. The dresses were from a few years back, but they were cheap and in near new condition. The woman had put on a bit of weight and could no longer wear them. You never know where you will find a treasure.

One small caveat: Make sure you inspect what you buy before paying.

just my own two cents...take it as you will..

Mar 26 11 03:47 am Link

Photographer

ScorpioPics

Posts: 586

Charlottetown, Prince Edward Island, Canada

Shandra Stark wrote:
With so many people up in arms about the economy and its relation to art/hobbies, I thought now would be a great time to share ideas about budgeting, planning...etc.

I will share ideas about the most frequent thing most people complain about on this site.  Feel free to  add clever solutions to other problems.  I have five solutions to one problem.  What problems can you help clear up for people, regarding budgets?:

P: Oh my gosh, your rates are too high.  I can't afford them.  We'll never work together!!!  *cry*  *pout* *bitch*

S:

1- Send an offer anyway. 

If all you have to offer is a sandwich and $50, tell the model/photographer/whatever that exact thing.  You never know!  I am more insulted when someone throws a pity party, and says "You'll never work with little old me.", than I am if someone says "Hey, listen, money is really tight, but I really respect your work and was wondering if you'd accept such and such."

2- Get someone to split the cost.

Just because a model doesn't say "I'll work with more than one person at once" on his or her profile, does not mean that person isn't willing to make exceptions.  I'd be more than happy to shoot with one or two extra photographers, for my same rate.  Split it and save yourself money.  Some models may not be cool with that, but you'll never know if you don't ask.

a- I don't have any friends!  How can I get someone to split the cost, omgz!   
           

*Get on model mayhem and start networking!  It's what you're here to do! "Hey, Jerry, I've admired your work for a while.  I see that Susie Nudie Pants is  visiting soon, and was wondering if you'd want to shoot her with me.  Awesomesauce studios is only $30 an hour, and we could go out for drinks after to talk about the shoot.

*Put up an event thread.  Have a get together at a studio or restaurant, and get to know your fellow photographers.  Talk, shoot landscapes, hang out.  Start a club...whatever you need to do.  Then when Susie Nudie Pants is coming your way, you have a pool of people to choose from.  If Susie already lives near you, or has no plans for travel- ask!!  "Hi, blah blah day of shooting, blah blah, split cost...blah blah what is your rate.  Sincerely, Jerry"

*Join meet-up.com

3- Host a workshop

Whatever this means for you, do it.  If you don't know how, ask the model; you'd be surprised how many of us know how to pull an event together. 

Don't have anything to teach?  GET CREATIVE!  Take photographers on a hiking trip, with model en-tow.  Take them boating, take them around your land, have a crazy shooting party at your studio.  Get people together to give you money and shoot the model, and pay the model his or her day rate from those earnings.  Negotiate how much time said model will shoot with you exclusively.

4- Barter

What do you have that this model may want? 

Examples:

clothes
food
transit passes
room and board (have hotel points?  send a model instead of yourself)
books
gift cards
furniture
electronics
web site
concert/movie/theatre tickets

...etc

Own a bowling alley?  A hair salon?  Pastry shop?  Have your own nightclub or restaurant?

Do you teach skydiving lessons?  Guitar?  Salsa dancing?

Use what you've got.

5- Plan ahead

I never contact a photographer spur of the moment, if I know that they are paid only.  I've always asked WAY before I ever expected to be in their area, or even if I had NO PLANS of being in their area ever.  That way I know how much I'd need to save, should the opportunity present itself, or should I decide to take charge and go now.

Start a shooting fund, for any necessary photography-related stuff. 

Start saving the way that works best  for you, even if you have NO model/mua/project in mind. 


Maybe for you this means $10 week.  Maybe it means never spending your five dollar bills.  Maybe it means saving all your tips from your restaurant gig.

Make it happen.  Some of you are getting in your own way.

YOU were MEANT TO BE an AGENT.

Mar 28 11 01:47 am Link

Photographer

Rhiannon Jansma

Posts: 71

Sydney, New South Wales, Australia

Great thread. Finally someone puts what some of us have been thinking into words. A job well done.

Mar 28 11 01:57 am Link

Model

Chris Margaret

Posts: 1

Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

Fantastic Post!

Mar 28 11 09:50 am Link

Model

Shandra Stark

Posts: 13612

Los Angeles, California, US

ScorpioPics wrote:

YOU were MEANT TO BE an AGENT.

You flatter me so!!  What an absolutely intriguing thought...

Apr 06 11 12:43 am Link

Model

KymberlyAnn

Posts: 1384

Waukesha, Wisconsin, US

Shandra Stark wrote:

You flatter me so!!  What an absolutely intriguing thought...

i'd hire you!

love this thread smile

Apr 20 11 08:28 am Link

Photographer

ES Pin Ups and Nudes

Posts: 296

Casa Grande, Arizona, US

I am all for the barter system - you never know what skills people might have - day jobs, hobbies, or that thing Uncle Jay taught them.

Apr 20 11 11:27 am Link

Photographer

- Phil H -

Posts: 25519

Bury Saint Edmunds, England, United Kingdom

May 07 11 03:12 pm Link

Model

Shandra Stark

Posts: 13612

Los Angeles, California, US

KymberlyAnn wrote:

i'd hire you!

love this thread smile

smile

May 10 11 08:37 pm Link

Model

Shandra Stark

Posts: 13612

Los Angeles, California, US

- Phil H - wrote:
This thread now stickied here - http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?threa … st14829304

AWESOME!

May 10 11 08:38 pm Link

Model

Fur Elise

Posts: 1814

Seattle, Washington, US

Absolutely wonderful thoughts here. Much of it I already do but the bartering is genius. Thanks.

Linked

May 11 11 05:42 am Link

Photographer

Abbitt Photography

Posts: 11723

Oakland Acres, Iowa, US

I think trade agreements are a great means of providing affordable shoot opportunties for both models and photographers.

I know many more expereinced models and photographer often rant about trade, but for newer or hobbyist models and photographer I think it offers a great way to enjoy the beneifits of shoots in an affordable manner.  While many feel they are deserving of pay, the reality is many newer models and photographers are not yet to the point where people will pay for their (our) services, or at least not pay much.  Trade allows us to learn, improve and build portfolios in a way that otherwise, just might not be affordable.

I did two trade shoots earlier this month with brand new models.  They now each have better portfolios and experience working with an unknown photographer.  I had the opporunity to experiment with some new stock photo concepts without breaking the bank on something which might not pan out.  As it turns, out they probably are not income earning ideas, but shooting trade allowed me to learn that in a manner that is affordable.

In the early days of America, (and in other countries) unpaid internships, or apprenticeships were very common.  It offered the intern a way to gain valuable skills and real life work experience affordably without having to pay for training and it allowed the provider some minimally skilled labor that he could compensate affordably with his time and knowledge instead of money.  I think trade shoots offer many of the same advantages.

May 11 11 09:07 am Link

Photographer

Kool Kat Studios

Posts: 10

Daytona Beach, Florida, US

i absolutely love this place...so much information...i never knew how much knowledge people possess...it helps out in a big way...i have had my downfalls as well...with biz right now it is hard because when you have to shovel out thousands to treat family illnesses you learn to make the most of what you have got...i have found there are alot of good people here...thanks all i like to say words of wisdom to live by

May 16 11 10:11 am Link

Model

V Laroche

Posts: 2746

New Orleans, Louisiana, US

This is great. Bumping.

May 17 11 05:11 am Link

Model

cameryn coxxx

Posts: 369

Delray Beach, Florida, US

Shandra Stark wrote:

With so many people up in arms about the economy and its relation to art/hobbies, I thought now would be a great time to share ideas about budgeting, planning...etc.

I will share ideas about the most frequent thing most people complain about on this site.  Feel free to  add clever solutions to other problems.  I have five solutions to one problem.  What problems can you help clear up for people, regarding budgets?:

P: Oh my gosh, your rates are too high.  I can't afford them.  We'll never work together!!!  *cry*  *pout* *bitch*

S:

1- Send an offer anyway. 

If all you have to offer is a sandwich and $50, tell the model/photographer/whatever that exact thing.  You never know!  I am more insulted when someone throws a pity party, and says "You'll never work with little old me.", than I am if someone says "Hey, listen, money is really tight, but I really respect your work and was wondering if you'd accept such and such."

2- Get someone to split the cost.

Just because a model doesn't say "I'll work with more than one person at once" on his or her profile, does not mean that person isn't willing to make exceptions.  I'd be more than happy to shoot with one or two extra photographers, for my same rate.  Split it and save yourself money.  Some models may not be cool with that, but you'll never know if you don't ask.

a- I don't have any friends!  How can I get someone to split the cost, omgz!   
           

*Get on model mayhem and start networking!  It's what you're here to do! "Hey, Jerry, I've admired your work for a while.  I see that Susie Nudie Pants is  visiting soon, and was wondering if you'd want to shoot her with me.  Awesomesauce studios is only $30 an hour, and we could go out for drinks after to talk about the shoot.

*Put up an event thread.  Have a get together at a studio or restaurant, and get to know your fellow photographers.  Talk, shoot landscapes, hang out.  Start a club...whatever you need to do.  Then when Susie Nudie Pants is coming your way, you have a pool of people to choose from.  If Susie already lives near you, or has no plans for travel- ask!!  "Hi, blah blah day of shooting, blah blah, split cost...blah blah what is your rate.  Sincerely, Jerry"

*Join meet-up.com

3- Host a workshop

Whatever this means for you, do it.  If you don't know how, ask the model; you'd be surprised how many of us know how to pull an event together. 

Don't have anything to teach?  GET CREATIVE!  Take photographers on a hiking trip, with model en-tow.  Take them boating, take them around your land, have a crazy shooting party at your studio.  Get people together to give you money and shoot the model, and pay the model his or her day rate from those earnings.  Negotiate how much time said model will shoot with you exclusively.

4- Barter

What do you have that this model may want? 

Examples:

clothes
food
transit passes
room and board (have hotel points?  send a model instead of yourself)
books
gift cards
furniture
electronics
web site
concert/movie/theatre tickets

...etc

Own a bowling alley?  A hair salon?  Pastry shop?  Have your own nightclub or restaurant?

Do you teach skydiving lessons?  Guitar?  Salsa dancing?

Use what you've got.

5- Plan ahead

I never contact a photographer spur of the moment, if I know that they are paid only.  I've always asked WAY before I ever expected to be in their area, or even if I had NO PLANS of being in their area ever.  That way I know how much I'd need to save, should the opportunity present itself, or should I decide to take charge and go now.

Start a shooting fund, for any necessary photography-related stuff. 

Start saving the way that works best  for you, even if you have NO model/mua/project in mind. 


Maybe for you this means $10 week.  Maybe it means never spending your five dollar bills.  Maybe it means saving all your tips from your restaurant gig.

Make it happen.  Some of you are getting in your own way.

EXACTLY!!!

May 17 11 05:16 am Link

Model

Shandra Stark

Posts: 13612

Los Angeles, California, US

Fur Elise wrote:
Absolutely wonderful thoughts here. Much of it I already do but the bartering is genius. Thanks.

Linked

You're welcome!  Thank YOU!

May 19 11 12:21 pm Link

Model

Shandra Stark

Posts: 13612

Los Angeles, California, US

bump before rapture wipes this thread out.

May 20 11 04:05 pm Link

Model

Sophie Nova

Posts: 2105

Los Angeles, California, US

I love this thread, thank you Shandra!

May 20 11 04:07 pm Link

Model

Shandra Stark

Posts: 13612

Los Angeles, California, US

Sophie Nova wrote:
I love this thread, thank you Shandra!

You're welcome, dear!

May 20 11 04:11 pm Link

Model

Shandra Stark

Posts: 13612

Los Angeles, California, US

Monday bump.

May 23 11 01:11 pm Link

Photographer

Eralar

Posts: 1778

Sherbrooke, Quebec, Canada

The Original Sin  wrote:

I once had four photographers book me for a day.  They were shooting in a Studio that belonged to Photographer A.  Photographers B and C wanted glamour and nudes, Photographer D wanted art nudes.

A day for me is about 8 hours, And the photographers did it round robin style.  They knew what the wanted to shoot for each set, and we flew.  Eggtimer in the corner, 15 minute break between sets where they ALL helped move lighting, change props, backdrops, etc and I got to rest and get ready for the next set.  There was a cold buffet set out and always accessible.

Afterwards they took me out to dinner.  Everyone got great images, everyone was happy, and it ran like silk.  I did ask how and why.

They met through a forum like MM, started talking, realized they lived close enough to get together, and went out and had a few drinks.  They discussed this concept, realized that $500/4 is $125, that they had access to a studio, and that they had all done community theater and knew how to do stage work.  They practiced the set-up/take-down a few times, worked together to help each person get the set the wanted designed, and everyone had a specific job- Photographer A on backdrop duty, Photographer B on props, etc.

Organizing something like this scenario is easier than trying to get your kids up, dressed, fed, collected and out the door to school every morning.

Great thread, with marvelous ideas! It should be sent to all newbs (photogs and models alike), this would help them start out very well.

Now, I need to find 3 other photogs to do such a shooting in Montreal smile

May 23 11 03:23 pm Link

Model

Shandra Stark

Posts: 13612

Los Angeles, California, US

Eralar wrote:

Great thread, with marvelous ideas! It should be sent to all newbs (photogs and models alike), this would help them start out very well.

Now, I need to find 3 other photogs to do such a shooting in Montreal smile

smile

May 31 11 10:58 am Link

Model

Shandra Stark

Posts: 13612

Los Angeles, California, US

bunny

Jun 04 11 07:38 am Link

Photographer

BodyartBabes

Posts: 2005

Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, US

Iona Lynn wrote:
This year since trying to retire and failing I decided to be an uber cheep model.

50 an hour, that is it.

But I also reserve the right to not accept jobs that bore me to tears... smile

I'm curious.  When mininum wage is about $8/hour, and "good" jobs are going for $10/hour... what makes an "uber cheep" [sic] model at $50/hour?

I've worked emergency rooms saving lives for less than $50/hour. 

If there is no client, no project, no potential returns, where is the money to pay models for anything?  If a model is willing to work for $10/hour, because they *NEED* to pay bills, why would people pay $50/hour?   Why would a model expect $50/hour pay rate, when local rates are $8-10/hour for work? 

The days of excess are gone and over.  They will never come back. 

I just don't understand why, especially for non-client-paying-work anyone would pay more than the local wage/rates for the area to get models, or even photographers.  I get more than minimum wage, but I give my clients more than anyone else around, and often give them a full memory stick of the images (JPG's) before I leave, just so they have them.  I don't lose work, I get it.  We add in other services, and we provide total packages -- without nickle and diming everyone on the prices!

But, why anyone can get $50/hour, or $100/hour or $300/hour or a day rate of $600/hour is really depending on what they are offering, and what a client can afford.  And that is usually directly related to what the LOCAL market will bear, and that depends on the overall economy.  And, some local markets never will bear more than $20-30/hour for any sort of unskilled work.  That includes strip clubs and such.  Still, $150 for a 10 hour shift is a lot better than $80. 

You can't set rates in a vacuum, or based on what YOU want or need.  You have to realize what the market can bear or afford, and decide how to live within that. 

Also, if you get 10 hours of work a month at $30, you are ahead of the game than if you get only 2 hours of work at $50.   And, if you could work 20 hours at $25 you'd be ahead still.   

No one is going to pay you a weeks wages to work 1 day, or a half day.  *THEY* know what it takes to make that money.  They aren't going to give it away.  Why should they get only 2 hours of time when they can get 10 hours for the same money?

Anyway....

Scott

Jun 04 11 07:57 am Link

Photographer

Furst Ammend

Posts: 1

NORTH HOLLYWOOD, California, US

Peace, Furst... a talented artistic producer you are as well

Jun 04 11 04:21 pm Link

Photographer

Frankie DiModica

Posts: 29

Los Angeles, California, US

ok for real i almost pee'd 1or 2 times reading this are you just so awesome hahahaaaa bowling ally

Aug 03 11 02:46 am Link

Model

Janos

Posts: 1571

Atlanta, Georgia, US

amen!

Nov 02 11 01:17 pm Link

Photographer

Kaos Eight

Posts: 4

Saint Louis, Missouri, US

I think FAR too often in this industry models think they can demand rates without anything to back it up OR even if they have the chops to back it up they think that their job is just to show up, look pretty, then leave.

We as photographers have to set up the shoot, edit the photos, market the work, etc. and we are only paid when the work is done.  I think models should be paid the same we are and additionally should be responsible for even amounts of work.

I have had some models who are stellar with this and I keep working with them, the models who aren't I don't work with anymore.

We pay a very generous profit share and bonuses on all our work, most specifically the book series which is nationally published by a publisher out of Chicago.  We pay this way NOT because we cannot afford rates but because its fair to everyone.  The split is based on the number of photos they get in the book.  They also have bonus opportunities if they directly sell the books etc.  This way they take an interest in the success of the work, they work for me ongoing, and everyone is fairly compensated.

I am sorry but unless you are shooting for magazines like playboy, hustler, etc. that already have the marketing and all that or if you are a supermodel then you should not be so demanding.  This doesn't mean do tfp/cd as that's for portfolio building.  However when models turn down LEGITIMATE back end payed work they are just lazy/think too highly of themselves.

Nov 18 11 10:01 am Link

Model

Raquel Rayne

Posts: 1186

New York, New York, US

Kaos Eight wrote:
I am sorry but unless you are shooting for magazines like playboy, hustler, etc. that already have the marketing and all that or if you are a supermodel then you should not be so demanding.  This doesn't mean do tfp/cd as that's for portfolio building.  However when models turn down LEGITIMATE back end payed work they are just lazy/think too highly of themselves.

This is your first post.

Shandra has been published and is a very well known model.  She has provided some very useful information. And she is most certainly NOT lazy. I would imagine she is quite the opposite, which is why she is fortunate enough to CHOOSE the modeling jobs she is offered.

Nov 18 11 10:33 am Link

Photographer

Kaos Eight

Posts: 4

Saint Louis, Missouri, US

This of course may be true but I wasn't talking about her specifically I was talking about models on this site and omp in general!  I would say that generally speaking 80 percent or more of the models here don't deserve to DEMAND payment up front.  Most of them should be happy with QUALITY REAL work.  Just because someone pays your overblown rates doesn't a professional shoot/good situation make.  Additionally if the pay is PROFIT SHARE of a nationally published book not only is it more generous but its just as quality.  I had one such unprofessional/mega-ego models today suggest profit share was "TFP".  No TFP is just that time for print, there is no money at all.  Additionally profit share in the case of: "well I am going to try to sell the photos and if I make anything i will split it with you" is much different than an iron clad contract relating to profit sharing on a nationally published book series that also includes a bonus structure.

Nov 18 11 03:31 pm Link

Photographer

Image Quality

Posts: 3

Elmhurst, Illinois, US

I read all 6 pages of this thread and find that everything I am doing is in line, but there were so many more things I could be doing that I just know this is going to be a GREAT year if I use those ideas.

Personally, I shoot film, in large format, from 4x5up to 11x14, as well as underwater 35mm.  The 11x14 is about $8 a sheet now, so I don't shoot 300 images at a shoot.  Underwater I will.  But, it is irrelevant what costs I had in making the image, it is how good is the image, in the end.

As to being a business, I am lucky that I have a great paying day job (at the moment), so I can afford to treat this as a hobby, though I have profit making motives.  I want to make a book, sell in a gallery.  Now if I could just realize those goals.

As for the model rates, I believe in paying up front, something that is reasonable for the market, will get me the quality I am looking for, and fair to everyone.  I have worked with Model Sarah (she's great) and I am here to say for the record that experience does count, and you can judge experience from the portfolio.

As to the actual amount to pay, well in Chicago I can get a nude model for $50/hr any day of the week, but I find it is better to either 1) pay more to get a someone with a proven track record; or 2) start with a newbie, work regularly, develop together both skills and a working relationship.  I am a little bit dyslexic, don't speak well, and having someone that knows my working style helps when I can't find the words.  Thanks to bettybathorie, love working with you.  Once the newbie is no longer a newbie I up their rate, regardless of what they charge others. 

I try to think of it as net cost per finished image.  If I only get 2 "winners" for $100 for a 2 hour shoot with a newbie, or get 10 winners for 2 hours @ $100/hr ($200) with someone more experienced, and either way I burn through $100 for the studio, $50 for my assistant, $200 for sheet film and processing, then my cost per image is close to $250 an image with the newbie and under $60 an image with the pro.  You do the math.  Since I like to work on series I do work with newbies, shoot less film each shoot, work without a studio, and also I think it helps them develop, and that is its own reward for me.  The Pros I hire for things were I feel I have only one shot at it.  I really don't care to work with models that are traveling, and only come to Chicago once every three years, but models like Sarah are always welcome.  I need a working relationship for most of my conceptual art.

I know this is rather long, and may be a little off topic, although it all relates to my photographer point of view on model compensation.  I want the model to be paid fairly right up front, so she isn't screwed if I screw up my film in the soup.  If we can work out a trade of some sort, clothes, even equipment, whatever she wants, as long as we can complete the transaction the day of the shoot I will do it.

I little off topic, hopefully someone on MM (an OP) will see this:  One of the models local that I have worked with frequently suggested we together stage an underwater workshop (she owns an indoor pool), like a meet and greet from the models point of view, and an education from the students (photographers).  In essence, the photographers pay us to use her pool, we pay the MUA for the day, and models (maybe for 2 hours, but they stay all day), the models are available to, well, model, everyone use my camerass and strobes and the models get resulting images and new contacts.  We even provide wardrobe, so you could have nude and non-nude U/W images if you like.  When I proposed this as a casting call last year I was chastized, told it was improper to post that there, since I would be making money (I might net $100 for me, same for the pool owner, after all the expenses).  This arrangement seems in line with some of the suggestions within this thread, so what do you all think?  Is charging each student $X for a day's training, providing a venue for the shoot and for a meet and greet, catering, all the equipment, etc provided, the organizers making a few bucks, a type of thing not to post in a casting call?  Then where? 

Thanks to all the commenters before me, this was a great read!

Jan 07 12 12:48 pm Link