Pete Flanagan wrote:
Unless you have one of the latest DSLR offerings from Canon or Nikon, your digicam may not be fast enough to shoot runway.  There is a lot happening all the time and shot opportunities pop up rapid fire.  The last thing you want to do is stand around waiting for your buffer to clear as the show passes you by.  I made the mistake of trying to shoot a runway show with my old D100.  Bad choice.  If I had been smart, I would have brought the F3/MD4 combination.  I have a D200 now which would perform better for sure.

Thanks for your response. Equipment isn't an issue; I have Nikon D2x with some fast lenses -- filling up the buffer has never been a problem with this one (it was with the D1x though). I'm wondering about fast telephoto lenses though; wouldn't they be a bad choice if I'm located relatively close to the runway? As of now I have no idea what my shooting distance will be, but I'm assuming I'll be rather close. Maybe an 85mm 1.8 would be a good choice? Of course, the capabilities of a zoom lens may be required here as well.

  As you can all see, I'm rather lost at this point.

  -P-

Pat Thielen wrote:

Thanks for your response. Equipment isn't an issue; I have Nikon D2x with some fast lenses -- filling up the buffer has never been a problem with this one (it was with the D1x though). I'm wondering about fast telephoto lenses though; wouldn't they be a bad choice if I'm located relatively close to the runway? As of now I have no idea what my shooting distance will be, but I'm assuming I'll be rather close. Maybe an 85mm 1.8 would be a good choice? Of course, the capabilities of a zoom lens may be required here as well.

  As you can all see, I'm rather lost at this point.

  -P-

It's been my experience at runway shows that "not enough" lens is never a problem.  If I had a D2x body, I'd just use my 28-70 f/2.8 and call it a day.  With that camera, you've got enough pixels in the image to crop close if you have to.

UdoR wrote:
Hey Pat;

[EDIT: Adjusted the numbers down after examining closer what I did]
As someone who has shot maybe close to 600 (at least 450 since 1998 including shows where I was/am part of the production company) runway shows, including and especially Olympus Fashionweek and a ton of smaller shows from big venues to dark clubs, here are some thoughts on it:

Your gear is fine!

If the runway is a long one, you need a fast long lense (I use 80-200mm f2.8) mounted on a sturdy monopod.

Shutterspeed should be 1/125s or better to freeze the hands of the models when walking.

If possible, do not use flash unless you have a recycle time of 1 second (quantum battery pack) and a guidenumber of 20/66 and greater.

Try to get an idea of the lighting setup of the fashionshow, you may not need a flash and shoot at ISO 400 or lower.

When you shoot, make sure that you find the rhythm of the model, how she walks, the blinking frequency of her eyes, is there a bounce in her walk that the hair is flowing and that you shoot when the legs are one in front of the other.

Try to get three/four or more shots full body while walking, a three quarter shot and the posing those upper body and one full body shot after her turn to see the back of the garment.

Since they commissioned you, you are what it's called "house", meaning you are shooting for either the designer or the organizers of the show, which also means that you have the right for the best spot, right in front of the runway, or wherever you chose to set up. Any other photographer who is trying to get into YOUR spot, you can tell them that you are house, and if they give you attitude, you call security.

It's YOUR responsibility to satisfy the client!

At those smaller shows, you find often guys who are just regular photographers and no professional runway shooters, so, those have no friggin' idea of press pit ettiquette and you've got to expect some confrontations.

If the organizers print access passes etc. for the staff, ask for one that you carry around your neck.

I think I covered it pretty much.

Oh, one more thing, find out about smaller shows in your area, prior to that important show and shoot there for practice... runway photography on a professional level is an entirely different animal.

Udo -- You rock! Thanks for all your advice and suggestions; I'll keep them all in mind. I have the lens you suggest, so I may bring that one along as well as a short zoom (that was a good tip as well; sorry -- I forgot who sugegsted it). I have no idea what the lighting will be at this time; I'll need to review this with the designer obviously before the show. I have a Nikon SB800dx flash, and it does have a relatively fast recycle time especially with fresh batteries. I'm thinking of using it off camera, on a stroboframe (is that right?) with a reflector. Obviously, that will cut some of the light but I think it should work.

  Thanks again for everyone's resonses; this is one of the really cool things about MM and it helps me prepare for something I've not done before.

  -Pat-

PK Digital Imaging wrote:
Wow... can you say bookmark?  Great info Udor!

*clap*

-PKD

Agreed -- Udor rocks! I'm very appreciative of his advice.

Pat Thielen wrote:
Thanks much for the advice! I have an update on the show and if anyone has any additional tips I'd love to hear them. The update is the show is this Friday, and I'm not going to be able to see the venue until then. So, I'm going into it a bit blind (wouldn't be the first time). How are these things generally lit? I'm assuming I'll need my flash, but should I diffuse it or just shoot "normally?" I have the Lumedyne (sp?) reflectors, but I'm concerned that when I turn my camera sideways to get a vertical the light will be coming from the side. I'm not sure if that will look weird, but it is something I'm wondering about. Also, my flash will need a longer recycling time if I shoot that way as it will need to dump pretty much all it's power (I have a Nikon SB-800).

  Any additional advice would be greatly appreciated. This is a first for me, and I'm a bit nervous about it. Also, it seems the designer is also interested in some behind the scenes shots. Any advice on those?

  Thanks much!

  -P-

Well I just came from a fashion event a couple days ago that was produced by a small production company, and my guess is, you'll always fall somewhere between what that small production company did and what a huge production does (which I've also attended).  Generally it's stage lighting, and I don't know if you've ever shot plays or ballet before, but the concerns are similar for a small production of runway.

My assistant was shooting the show (I was attending for other reasons) and while helping him set up, we figured out that the best method to get the shots for him was to shoot RAW at 400 ISO and push to 800, since he only had 4.5 available as the widest aperture on his rig.  If the lighting were to be exactly the same, you would have been able to achieve the goal of a minimum of 125 without pushing at 2.8.

So, will you need your flash unit? Not likely... they generally have the runway lit well enough for you to achieve 125/2.8 @ iso 400.

On the off chance you do a diffuser is always a good idea to wrap the light a little and cut down the harshness, you might also consider a bracket to bring the flash as far from your lens as possible.

TXPhotog wrote:
In a small production the lighting could be absolutely anything at all.  I agree with Udo (of course), but you need to be prepared to shoot under dismal lighting conditions and create your own light.  If you get lucky you won't need to.

Shoot in Raw - God only knows what the light temperature of the venue system will be, and controlling exposures may be very hard.  Raw helps with both.

Using the SB-800 could be a problem.  Even with five batteries, will you have enough flashes for the whole show?  A good-sized show could require 100-150 or more shots, and you will not have time to change batteries in the middle of the show.  Also, if you do use flash, how will you control exposure?  Some techniques include setting on manual and shooting at a designated spot (very limiting, but best for repeatable exposures), using TTL (spot mode is best, since the background-to-model ratio will vary widely) but then you have the problem of very different reflectances on different outfits.  Think through the problem as the venue presents itself, but be prepared to deal with damned near anything.

Good points. I was thinking of diffusing the flash and shooting using TTL at perhaps -1/3 EV or so while dragging the shutter (if there's enough light for that). I'm hoping to capture the ambiant lighting for mood and yet show the fashions as best as possible. There's going to be a rehearsal beforehand so I should be able to get some good testing in beforehand. But you're absolutely right when you say be prepared for anything.

  Thanks much everyone!

  -P-

SP GRAPHICS wrote:
Get pocketwizards  Check this website out
http://www.todayifeellike.com/videos/st … ashion.mov

I hope this helps.  Lighting is the most important thing.

It's a cute idea...

BUT... I saw only a few shots that made the clothes look good and where he hit the rhythm of the models on the runway and I am guessing that those were probably his best shots since he included it in the video.

Not something a fashion editor would be able to really use...

Not dissing him, just sharing my view on the information and results provided.

If you look closely, because of the arrangements of the flashes... the sides of the faces are often too hot...

IF you need to use flashes, put strong ones on your camera, you don't need to submit photos with "fancy lighting", because they don't care for it... they want to see the clothes, fully lit and nice flow of the body movements.

However, such a set up is fantastic for fashion and portfolio work on location... I have a similar setup and include umbrellas... and I shoot anywhere and carry it all on my back.

But runway...? Neeehhh...!

Udor wrote:

It's a cute idea...

BUT... I saw only a few shots that made the clothes look good and where he hit the rhythm of the models on the runway and I am guessing that those were probably his best shots since he included it in the video.

Not something a fashion editor would be able to really use...

Not dissing him, just sharing my view on the information and results provided.

If you look closely, because of the arrangements of the flashes... the sides of the faces are often too hot...

IF you need to use flashes, put strong ones on your camera, you don't need to submit photos with "fancy lighting", because they don't care for it... they want to see the clothes, fully lit and nice flow of the body movements.

However, such a set up is fantastic for fashion and portfolio work on location... I have a similar setup and include umbrellas... and I shoot anywhere and carry it all on my back.

But runway...? Neeehhh...!

You might get your flash and pocket wizard stolen, hehehe.  The best bet is a fast lens.

Cat Melnyk Photography wrote:
Normally when I shoot runway - it's the 70-200, no flash... but everyone seems to do it different... find a photog who's got runway stuff you like and ask them

You can use flash for runway shows, you just REALLY stand out ads a newb if you do. That much I learned already. If anything I'll just need to browse and see which lenses are available for my soon to be new DSLR.

Tom Linkens wrote:
You can use flash for runway shows, you just REALLY stand out ads a newb if you do. That much I learned already. If anything I'll just need to browse and see which lenses are available for my soon to be new DSLR.

ps this thread is old, and there are no "real" fashion shows that go on here in mn.

AndrewThomasDesigns wrote:

ps this thread is old, and there are no "real" fashion shows that go on here in mn.

Fashion shows aren't old, in fact I'm just getting started with them.

And try to beat this for not "real":

The Spring Bling Fashion Fling, Harrisburg Pa. The first fashion show I photographed.

It's highlights:

The first special guest, Chiffona, arrived and was told she wasn't on the guest list...so she left. But I'll bet she still came looking for her paycheck. 

Brandy LeChae, the second special guest. She wasn't allowed to change into a different outfit, or hair, makeup, etc. She would of left, except she flew in from Cali.

And to top it off, the man in charge & editor of a magazine that I wanted to get published in never got any release forms signed...so bye-bye editorial photos from the three photogs who worked that show.

Michael Ahearn wrote:
i would try and get away with a 50mm 1.4 on a second body, so for those end of the runway shots you dont have to use flash.

There's NO time to switch bodies, or to do much else other than peer through the lens and wait for the right moments.

Imagine shooting the bridal march at a wedding in fast forward. Then a few dozen more times, one after the other. That's what runway is like, whether it's a major Fashion Week show in Paris or a mall "fashion council" show.

Tom Linkens wrote:
And to top it off, the man in charge & editor of a magazine that I wanted to get published in never got any release forms signed...so bye-bye editorial photos from the three photogs who worked that show.

I'm no lawyer, but I've never had to get model releases for editorial work. If the print photos are selling something like clothes that's a different story.

Coyote Creations NW wrote:
I'm not a fashion photographer but I was recently asked to be part of a five photographer, house team by a friend who does a lot of fashion.  It really is a different world.  The things I learned about runway from a newbie perspective were:

First, it is incredibly fast.  There is no time to change lenses or anything else.

Second, use equipment you are very familiar with.  I chose to use my D600 back because it was new.  I missed some shots fumbling with the new control layout.

Third, location, location, location.  You won't have time to move, so be very careful where you set up.

Fourth, minimize your equipment.  It can be crowded.  There is no room for anything your don't absolutely need.  There may be other limits.  The fire marshal banned tripods for the event.  The venue was an art museum event space - no flash photography allowed.

Prepare to be humbled.  Being a good photographer does not automatically make you even a decent fashion photographer.  It was fun.

Ekirstyle wrote:
There has been some amazing information in this thread, its just what I was looking for as I am shooting my first bikini comp tomorrow. Its at 4pm, so the should still be some good ambient light coming in (the venure has large decks on two sides with big glass windows and doors, plus the stage lighting!

I'm glad  i read this thread coz I have an 80mm f1.8 so I'm thinking that will be my lens of choice, the other lenses are old kit lenses. apart from the 50m f 1.8.
I would have had the external flash popping too so I am glad I read not to do that! My camera seems to get very noisy after ISO400, so I will try to not shoot over that! (Canon 50D)

I am also going to set my panasonix lumix ft4 up on a tripod and set it to time lapse mode of 30 minutes with 60 images, so one every 30 seconds, just to get any I might miss!

Also I have my business partner with me for the first half of the show, and a back up photog! We should be covered. My only concern is, for the 50D I have an 8 gig card, (shooting RAW Large format) and two x 2 gig cards. the Lumix has two x 4 gig cards, and there are between 5-8 models. I think the show is going to take an hour but I will be covering the whole night, my biggest worry is if I have enough memory! (if I could afford to buy a 32 gig CF card before the show, I of course wouldn't be asking this question)

Do you guys think this will be enough?

3 things

the mix of natural light and artificial light could prove tricky as there will no doubt be a imbalance in the white balance ..best to do some white balance testing before the show if you can

Not sure why you are using a fixed lens when a zoom would give you so many more options

I dont understand this tripod /time lapse method you are proposing either


Personally I have never shot a fashion show in RAW so I can't offer any opinion on that question

i have however shot around 700 shows in JPEG

( edit ) oh and re read what Udor wrote if you havent already