Forums > Photography Talk > Overpower the Sun? Oh Yeah Baby!!!!!!

Photographer

Simon Gerzina

Posts: 2288

Brooklyn, New York, US

Here, just to make you feel better.  Overpowering the sun:

https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3222/2966335376_6f7c60366e.jpg

https://farm3.static.flickr.com/2085/2526818928_119c7d8c52.jpg

https://farm3.static.flickr.com/2039/2041163013_1d99a64a2c_o.jpg

All shot at midday.

Mar 29 10 06:45 pm Link

Photographer

George Lue

Posts: 8235

Orlando, Florida, US

If anyone is wondering why someone would go the 4 flashgun route over buying a true studio light and pack for half the price...

I can fit 4 flashguns in my backpack, along with 2 stands with brackets and umbrellas strapped to the outside, and my regular camera zoom lenses.

I wouldn't be able to do that with studio strobes.

In addition, I can set the 4 strobes to 1/4 power, get a faster sync and recycle time and break them up or put them together as I'd need to.

All in a portable, AA powered form factor.

Having said that, I wouldn't mind having a real set of studio strobes for when I don't need the portability.  It's far less trouble for a lot of power when you need it.

Mar 29 10 07:00 pm Link

Photographer

ChristopherKnight

Posts: 342

Encino, California, US

Will King Photography wrote:
I have one and love it. Yeah, I could use one strong strobe but who wants to take a portable power pack into the water?

https://farm3.static.flickr.com/2534/3903200332_4f77bb489a_o.jpg

Geez, I can't tell you how much I just learned from this one picture.  Muchas Gracias.

Mar 29 10 07:16 pm Link

Photographer

StephenEastwood

Posts: 19585

Great Neck, New York, US

A slice of oblivion wrote:

Actually, none of the images posted so far have been overpowering the sun.  Some of the posts have made for a good read though.

this will give some real world numbers to power needed for specific effect, it can be translated to high speed sync as well.
http://stepheneastwood.com/blog/?p=71


Stephen Eastwood
http://www.StephenEastwood.com/workshops

Mar 29 10 07:18 pm Link

Photographer

Brian Hillburn

Posts: 2442

Las Vegas, Nevada, US

Brooklyn Bridge Images wrote:
4 SB800s cost about $1600 ??? No ? Much better options are around for that kind of money

I was thinking the same thing myself. With my White Lightning 1600 /beauty dish combo is stronger powered by a Vagabond II. Cheaper too...

Mar 29 10 07:20 pm Link

Photographer

Paul Brecht

Posts: 12232

Colton, California, US

StephenEastwood wrote:
this will give some real world numbers to power needed for specific effect, it can be translated to high speed sync as well.
http://stepheneastwood.com/blog/?p=71


Stephen Eastwood
http://www.StephenEastwood.com/workshops

Stephen, you know that all the blog haters are gonna start hating on you...  lol...

BTW: I saw your girlfriend, who does the "Triple Threat" flash holder in Vegas...

Paul

Mar 29 10 07:42 pm Link

Photographer

J Kacey

Posts: 292

Snohomish, Washington, US

It's not like your getting 4 X the power of one flash
Two flashes = + 1 stop or DBL power
Third flash = + 1/2 stop
Fourth flash = + 1/4 stop

Bottom line, grouping anything over two flashes gives you very diminished results for the $. IMO

Mar 29 10 08:21 pm Link

Photographer

3rdeyemedia us

Posts: 387

Los Angeles, California, US

Pharaoh Studios wrote:
i shot this with a five foot octabank 650watt sec ab1600 and a n.d. filter over cast sky


https://img62.imageshack.us/img62/7023/img6272web.jpg

https://img171.imageshack.us/img171/6874/img6262web.jpg

Very nice work James.  Your strobes may not be overpowering the sun but her body sho is blockin the sun (Dam!).  I'm going to try to make it up to your studio on Thursday.  I will call you.

Patrick

Mar 29 10 08:50 pm Link

Photographer

Robert Lynch

Posts: 2522

Bowie, Maryland, US

Simon Gerzina wrote:
All shot at midday.

All shot under heavily overcast conditions, doesn't really count as overpowering the sun.

Try it without the clouds.  Mid afternoon in the Nevada Desert, mostly cloudless day, sun behind the model to camera right.  1 AB1600 at full power into a Hensel BD with the center reflector removed and a polarizer on camera:

https://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/080727/19/488d09114e13b.jpg


This one was taken shortly before noon in Daytona Beach, overpowering the Florida sun with a single AB1600 and BD:

https://images.robertlynchphotography.com/Rachael01510-small.jpg

Mar 29 10 08:53 pm Link

Photographer

Dallas J. Logan

Posts: 2185

Los Angeles, California, US

THIS IS MY SUN WORK AND SPEEDLIGHT...

https://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg63/DALLASJLOGAN/MALE%20MODELS/ICONICS.jpg

Mar 29 10 08:57 pm Link

Photographer

Robert Lynch

Posts: 2522

Bowie, Maryland, US

J Kacey wrote:
It's not like your getting 4 X the power of one flash

Of course you are.  Four identical flashes are exactly four times more powerful than one flash.  It can't be anything else.  Four flashes gives you 2 stops more power than 1 flash.

J Kacey wrote:
Two flashes = + 1 stop or DBL power
Third flash = + 1/2 stop
Fourth flash = + 1/4 stop

You need to rethink your math and logic.  These are cumulative figures.  The 3rd flash gives you 1/2 stop relative to the original power plus the 1st extra stop that you got from the second flash, not an extra 1/2 stop compared to the original power available.

The second flash provides a 1 stop advantage over the 1st.  The 3rd and 4th flashes together provide a 1 stop advantage over the first two together.  The end result is a 2 stop advantage over the original single flash.

Mar 29 10 09:00 pm Link

Photographer

M A R T I N

Posts: 3893

Calgary, Alberta, Canada

Simon Gerzina wrote:
Yeah, I got my used Hensel Porty for half that.  That's 1200ws if you're counting, plus a spare battery.  Plus I'm pretty sure that a single Porty head is a lot lighter...

that's 20lbs just in batteries! My porty kit weighs 70lbs and costs extra everytime I fly. Even if I shell out the same on speedlights (and who says I have to go with new sb800s?) I'm willing to lose all that weight. For those times I really need a studio outside I'll rent, but I see the huge advantage of using speedlights for most of my location work.

Mar 29 10 09:06 pm Link

Photographer

StephenEastwood

Posts: 19585

Great Neck, New York, US

Paul Brecht wrote:
Stephen, you know that all the blog haters are gonna start hating on you...  lol...
Paul

Well its the same as the tutorial page, but much better formatted and looks much nicer, that tutorial page (while useful info) looked just awful.  hmm



Stephen Eastwood
http://www.StephenEastwood.com/workshops

Mar 29 10 09:13 pm Link

Photographer

J Kacey

Posts: 292

Snohomish, Washington, US

Robert Lynch wrote:
Of course you are.  Four identical flashes are exactly four times more powerful than one flash.  It can't be anything else.  Four flashes gives you 2 stops more power than 1 flash.


You need to rethink your math and logic.  These are cumulative figures.  The 3rd flash gives you 1/2 stop relative to the original power plus the 1st extra stop that you got from the second flash, not an extra 1/2 stop compared to the original power available.

The second flash provides a 1 stop advantage over the 1st.  The 3rd and 4th flashes together provide a 1 stop advantage over the first two together.  The end result is a 2 stop advantage over the original single flash.

These are cumulative figures.
I understand that..... I figured  4 speedlights would be a additional 1 3/4 stops over the original not 2 as you noted above.

Adding one additional flash doubles your power or one stop. The second additional flash goes halfway to doubling it again, adding another half stop. The third additional will only add a quarter stop.
Totaling + 1 3/4 Stops

I could be wrong, but I doubt it... LOL

Mar 29 10 09:15 pm Link

Photographer

Vanishing Point Ent

Posts: 1707

Los Angeles, California, US

Martin Bielecki wrote:

that's 20lbs just in batteries! My porty kit weighs 70lbs and costs extra everytime I fly. Even if I shell out the same on speedlights (and who says I have to go with new sb800s?) I'm willing to lose all that weight. For those times I really need a studio outside I'll rent, but I see the huge advantage of using speedlights for most of my location work.

If you substitute Lumedyne heads for the speedlights, you can have a lot
more power, for not that much difference in weight.  The heads weigh
about the same & have a modeling light to boot.  800 w/s per pack
is the most practical; power vs. recycle time, ( about 1.25 sec ).

The pack & batteries weigh more than Turbo's but not that much & you
get a lot more shots, along with the modeling light.
They weigh way less than a Porty, or Ranger, or Broncolor.

The Lumedyne pack & battery can also power Quantum X heads,
( up to 400 w/s ).  Great for TTL work.  Which none of the others can do.

Mar 29 10 09:47 pm Link

Photographer

Robert Lynch

Posts: 2522

Bowie, Maryland, US

J Kacey wrote:
The third additional will only add a quarter stop.

No, it accounts for 1/4 stop of the final power output.  The "third additional" A.K.A. the fourth flash adds 1/3 stop over the previous three, not 1/4.  I'll let you work out the rest of the math/logic errors.

Mar 29 10 09:56 pm Link

Photographer

J Kacey

Posts: 292

Snohomish, Washington, US

Robert Lynch wrote:

No, it accounts for 1/4 stop of the final power output.  The "third additional" A.K.A. the fourth flash adds 1/3 stop over the previous three, not 1/4.  I'll let you work out the rest of the math/logic errors.

Thanks Robert
I see where my thinking was off.... Hey it's been a long day.
You DBL the amount of flashes for every stop gained
Still to gain 3 stops you would need 8 flashes right?
4 stops would be 16 flashes

Mar 29 10 10:30 pm Link

Photographer

M A R T I N

Posts: 3893

Calgary, Alberta, Canada

Vanishing Point Ent wrote:

If you substitute Lumedyne heads for the speedlights, you can have a lot
more power, for not that much difference in weight.  The heads weigh
about the same & have a modeling light to boot.  800 w/s per pack
is the most practical; power vs. recycle time, ( about 1.25 sec ).

The pack & batteries weigh more than Turbo's but not that much & you
get a lot more shots, along with the modeling light.
They weigh way less than a Porty, or Ranger, or Broncolor.

The Lumedyne pack & battery can also power Quantum X heads,
( up to 400 w/s ).  Great for TTL work.  Which none of the others can do.

400ws = 2.5 sec! that isn't selling me, and it's still too heavy, bulky, slow recycle. and I don't use modeling lights.

Mar 29 10 11:53 pm Link

Photographer

Al Lock Photography

Posts: 17024

Bangkok, Bangkok, Thailand

J Kacey wrote:

These are cumulative figures.
I understand that..... I figured  4 speedlights would be a additional 1 3/4 stops over the original not 2 as you noted above.

Adding one additional flash doubles your power or one stop. The second additional flash goes halfway to doubling it again, adding another half stop. The third additional will only add a quarter stop.
Totaling + 1 3/4 Stops

I could be wrong, but I doubt it... LOL

Actually, two stops would be correct.

Start with one: double the number of flashes to add one stop: 2 speedlights.
Double the number of speedlights again to add another stop: 4 speedlights.

Mar 30 10 12:10 am Link

Photographer

Mariusz Sikorski

Posts: 164

Kawasaki, Kanagawa, Japan

This may sound like a dumb question but i really haven't done much outdoor photography model wise (hooray for winter 6 months of the year!) So i'm kind of curious what kind of power is needed, generally speaking, out of a strobe in order to overpower the conditions. In my case it would be more towards evenings and not in direct sun. I also understand it can heavily depend on the modifier as well. It's something I've been meaning to test and play with to better understand but i wont get a chance to till later in April so i figured i may ask here. I've got some Elinchrom RX 600 units i could strap to a softbox.

Mar 30 10 12:30 am Link

Photographer

Paul Brecht

Posts: 12232

Colton, California, US

Hikari Studio wrote:
This may sound like a dumb question but i really haven't done much outdoor photography model wise (hooray for winter 6 months of the year!) So i'm kind of curious what kind of power is needed, generally speaking, out of a strobe in order to overpower the conditions. In my case it would be more towards evenings and not in direct sun. I also understand it can heavily depend on the modifier as well. It's something I've been meaning to test and play with to better understand but i wont get a chance to till later in April so i figured i may ask here. I've got some Elinchrom RX 600 units i could strap to a softbox.

You could prolly do it w/ the RX, although the softbox might kill it. If you're close enough to sunset, you could easily do it w/ an OEM strobe. I did a shot, where the sun was diffused by some light clouds. When I took the shot, all I could see was lens flare, but my flash beat the hell out of it...  smile...

Here's that shot:

https://www.pbprophoto.net/mandee001.jpg
details: Alien Bees B-1600 w/ PLM 84" (640 w/s into 7' umbrella) I was standing in front of the umbrella...

Paul

Mar 30 10 12:37 am Link

Photographer

Robert Lynch

Posts: 2522

Bowie, Maryland, US

J Kacey wrote:
Still to gain 3 stops you would need 8 flashes right?
4 stops would be 16 flashes

Yes.

Mar 30 10 12:57 am Link

Photographer

DOF Images

Posts: 717

Sydney, New South Wales, Australia

https://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv214/sweben53/10624_275641625012_689985012_904008.jpg
https://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv214/sweben53/10624_275641620012_689985012_904008.jpg

Here are a couple of examples of my overpowering the sun with one little pentax speedlight

Mar 30 10 01:17 am Link

Photographer

Robb Mann

Posts: 12324

Baltimore, Maryland, US

George Lue wrote:
If anyone is wondering why someone would go the 4 flashgun route over buying a true studio light and pack for half the price...

Well, for what you've invested in SB-800's + SU-800, you could've bought this lovely little setup (or, apparently gotten it for half-price on Ebay!)

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/images345x345/632656.jpg

it's 400 true WS, and comes with a very reliable wireless trigger that lets you set flash power remotely. Plus, for another $100 you can get an adapter to use any of Elinchrom's Rotalux boxes, which are very, very nice. Whole thing packs down to not much bigger or heavier than what you're currently carrying, plus the quality of light from one large head is more consistent and controllable than 4 small flash heads.

The Hensel Porty is another small, integrated battery/pack & head system, but at 1200ws, and not a whole lot more money than the Elinchrom.

In lighting, there are always options.

Mar 30 10 01:43 am Link

Photographer

Paul Brecht

Posts: 12232

Colton, California, US

Steve Broadbent wrote:
http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv214/sweben53/10624_275641625012_689985012_904008.jpg
http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv21 … 904008.jpg

Here are a couple of examples of my overpowering the sun with one little pentax speedlight

Non-examples ?  There is no indication that you overpowered the sun. The subject is dark & the shadows clearly come from behind. Unless the sun was behind you (not the model) & the speedlight was behind the model (not in front of the model), then, yes, you might have a case, but it doesn't appear so...

If you look @ my example, you will see that the only shadows come from the PLM...

Paul

Mar 30 10 02:53 am Link

Photographer

DOF Images

Posts: 717

Sydney, New South Wales, Australia

interesting thought but as you can see the shadow on the bottom of the bike indicate that it was not directed on the ground and therefore wouldn't remove the shadow.
the highlights on the arms and face are bright.
interesting how you picked the parts that were purposely removed from light as it was off camera flash.
didnt know i had to have a better example to meddle with your honour......

Mar 30 10 03:59 am Link

Photographer

Simon Gerzina

Posts: 2288

Brooklyn, New York, US

Robert Lynch wrote:
All shot under heavily overcast conditions, doesn't really count as overpowering the sun.

They weren't, actually, but here you go: mid-day sun on the beach in Long Island, the middle of a ranch in Texas and a rooftop in mid-summer Los Angeles, respectively.

https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3465/3984551735_0cf476b566.jpg

https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3150/2525352686_abf32d6d31.jpg

https://farm2.static.flickr.com/1161/690524661_c874da7c56.jpg

Mar 30 10 04:27 am Link

Photographer

Paul Brecht

Posts: 12232

Colton, California, US

Steve Broadbent wrote:
interesting thought but as you can see the shadow on the bottom of the bike indicate that it was not directed on the ground and therefore wouldn't remove the shadow.
the highlights on the arms and face are bright.
interesting how you picked the parts that were purposely removed from light as it was off camera flash.
didnt know i had to have a better example to meddle with your honour......

Has nothing to do with me. If you overpower the sun, you will leave the shadow, not the sun...

Paul

Mar 30 10 05:13 am Link

Photographer

Will King Photo

Posts: 1895

Virginia Beach, Virginia, US

Let me address a few things. Every time I show people my various multiple speedlite rigs like the FourSqaure, Kacey Double Speedlite Beauty Dish, or the Lastolite Triflash, I hear the argument. "Why buy 4 speedlites when you can buy one strobe?" I can only speak for myself but I didn't buy these rigs first and then go out and buy speedlites for them. In addition to the 5 studio strobes I own, I also own 8 speedlites. I shoot a lot of weddings and events and they come in handy.

I also shoot a lot of outdoor stuff and yes, I can bring by strobes and portable power but I now choose to bring speedlites because of portability. Nowadays, you can find or even make just about any modifier for speedlites so the versatility is limitless. Since I gang speedlites together, I’m not limited by lack of power.

I’m able to trigger up to 5 speedlites with one PocketWizard Plus II with a $10 adapter from Belkin, although I often just gang 2-4 either through a BD, umbrella, or softbox. I rarely have to go full power when I’m ganging 4 speedlites but I like having that power just in case. And there have been times I needed all the juice from 4 to overpower the sun. When power is not a great concern, using 4 vs 1 is still better because of the broader source of light and faster recycle time. I like using 4 speedlites with CTOs on each, Stofen dome diffuser on each and all of them firing through a shoot through umbrella. The light is amazingly warm, soft, and diffused. I shoot my lights in manual and not eTTL and I’m still able to make adjustments to power in a matter of seconds.

So here are some images of my rigs and the images I produce with them.
https://farm3.static.flickr.com/2628/3685087007_e09497a2f1_o.jpg

https://farm3.static.flickr.com/2448/3685909568_e880c0630e_o.jpg

https://farm3.static.flickr.com/2534/3903200332_4f77bb489a_o.jpg

https://modelmayhm-1.vo.llnwd.net/d1/photos/090824/03/4a926f40c623c.jpg

https://modelmayhm-1.vo.llnwd.net/d1/photos/090827/09/4a96af30e3d31.jpg

https://modelmayhm-1.vo.llnwd.net/d1/photos/090901/22/4a9e043a490e6.jpg

https://modelmayhm-1.vo.llnwd.net/d1/photos/090828/08/4a97fcf758778.jpg

https://modelmayhm-1.vo.llnwd.net/d1/photos/090907/01/4aa4c67d78a67.jpg

Mar 30 10 05:28 am Link

Photographer

Chicago Boudoir Photo

Posts: 319

Tinley Park, Illinois, US

Thank You Will King, you have kind of summed it up.....  I already owned the 4, (actually 6, SB-800's) before I amassed the whole Calumet 6-travelites collection, was kind of used to the SB-800's providing what I needed.

Here's one of the points..... I can pack 4 SB-800's into a Domke F-6 bag, with all wires and pocket wizards.  It weighs about 3 pounds, takes up about the same space as two loaves of bread.  The four SB-800's give me almost double the power of a Calumet 750 that weighs 8 pounds.  If I need two light sources, I need two Calumet 750's (or 375's), but the doubled-up SB-800's give me almost the same amount of light (1/3 stop less) as the 750's.  I also need the Calumet travel-pak battery that weighs, what, about 8 pounds?

I can travel on the airplane with everything I need for a multiple-light shoot in one big Domke bag.

I guess that's the Strobist philosophy..... Of course, if I can have the power of a Ranger, Calumet Travel-Pak, etc, etc, BIG MAMA studio system, and assistants to carry the stuff, and set it up, and manage it, that's fine, BUT the ONLY point IS, if you can do it Lighter, Easier to Carry, Easier to Move Around, AND IT WORKS.......  Why Not?

P.S. to the people who say you can buy "X" system with battery sources, power sources, Elinchroms, Travel-Paks, etc, for less money than a few SB-800's, just go get yourself four Vivitar 285HV's for $90.00 new on e-bay, they have almost the power of the Nikon SB-800's or Canon 580's!

Okay, I have said my peace, I shall now rest......

Mar 30 10 04:01 pm Link

Photographer

Sean Baker Photo

Posts: 8044

Fort Knox, Kentucky, US

Ray Lloyd wrote:
P.S. to the people who say you can buy "X" system with battery sources, power sources, Elinchroms, Travel-Paks, etc, for less money than a few SB-800's, just go get yourself four Vivitar 285HV's for $90.00 new on e-bay, they have almost the power of the Nikon SB-800's or Canon 580's!

Actually, most of us do.

Mar 30 10 04:09 pm Link

Photographer

Chicago Boudoir Photo

Posts: 319

Tinley Park, Illinois, US

Thanks SRB.....

I also own six Viv 285HV's, and use them interchangeably with the SB-800's, unless I'm trying to use the Nikon SLS.....

Well spoken.....

Mar 30 10 04:12 pm Link

Photographer

RSM-images

Posts: 4226

Jacksonville, Florida, US

.

NothingIsRealButTheGirl wrote:
How does an ND filter make the artificial light several stops brighter than the sun?

.

Silly, you aren't thinking -- you use the ND filter on the Sun...!

neutral

.

Mar 30 10 04:24 pm Link

Photographer

StephenEastwood

Posts: 19585

Great Neck, New York, US

SRB Photo wrote:

Actually, most of us do.

Mar 30 10 04:31 pm Link

Photographer

Brooklyn Bridge Images

Posts: 12917

Brooklyn, New York, US

Ray Lloyd wrote:
P.S. to the people who say you can buy "X" system with battery sources, power sources, Elinchroms, Travel-Paks, etc, for less money than a few SB-800's, just go get yourself four Vivitar 285HV's for $90.00 new on e-bay, they have almost the power of the Nikon SB-800's or Canon 580's!

Okay, I have said my peace, I shall now rest......

A X-mas tree of cheap Vivtars would make a perfectly sensible solution to me.
Lighter and cheaper than a studio strobe I can see how that can work.
Several thousand $$$ of OEM flashes does not compute.

Mar 30 10 05:29 pm Link

Photographer

dave wright phx

Posts: 13509

Phoenix, Arizona, US

a hundred bucks for that thing? seems like you could spend ten or fifteen at home depot and make your own.

Mar 31 10 01:48 am Link

Photographer

WMcK

Posts: 5298

Glasgow, Scotland, United Kingdom

Ray Lloyd wrote:
The replies are great!

. An ND filter cuts your flash power down just as much as your ambient exposure, so, NOW, you need MORE flash power to overcome the ND filter!  THAT IS precisely the beauty of being able to tie in four SB-800's, or Canon's, or Quantum's, or whoever else makes TTL-friendly speedlights!  You CAN shoot at higher speeds, GET the SHORT recycling speeds, and have NO CARE for the shutter sync speed!

See Dave Black's page, see him making images at 1/2000th second, and 1/2,500th second...........

The problem is the huge power loss in high speed sync, much greater than shooting with an ND. For instance, on my 5d I lose a full four stops between shooting at full power in normal mode at 1/200th and HSS at 1/1000th. And an ND has the advantage of reducing the background too, which HS flash does not do.

Mar 31 10 02:01 am Link

Photographer

K E S L E R

Posts: 11574

Los Angeles, California, US

an Ab1600 + 11" reflector will over power just about anything.  smile

Mar 31 10 02:38 am Link

Photographer

Wayne Cutler

Posts: 640

Los Angeles, California, US

K E S L E R wrote:
an Ab1600 + 11" reflector will over power just about anything.  smile

Kesler, you just made my day as I have just purchased an AB1600 and should get it in a week.

Mar 31 10 02:44 am Link

Photographer

Long Island Studios

Posts: 4162

Sayville, New York, US

Ray Lloyd wrote:
The replies are great!

Here are a couple points.....

You can't shoot with studio lights with a shutter speed faster than 1/250th (or whatever your camera syncs at)

With this system you CAN, as long as (As Stephen mentions) you can get the signal from the SU-800 to the Four Square-mounted SB-800's  (Read my first post about setting an additional SB-800 in-between the SU-800 and the Four Square........   AND Dave Black's article about using a Nikon TTL cord TURNED BACKWARDS on the camera to activate TTL-CLS to understand this.....

I've had a couple situations where the ambient required me to shoot at speeds higher than 1/250th sync.......  Several, actually....... An ND filter cuts your flash power down just as much as your ambient exposure, so, NOW, you need MORE flash power to overcome the ND filter!  THAT IS precisely the beauty of being able to tie in four SB-800's, or Canon's, or Quantum's, or whoever else makes TTL-friendly speedlights!  You CAN shoot at higher speeds, GET the SHORT recycling speeds, and have NO CARE for the shutter sync speed!

And..........

There is presently nothing lighter, easier to carry, human-lightstand movable, no wires, no batteries, no big, heavy mono-heads, set-it-once-and-forget-it system........

And again, go to Dave Black's page, see him making images at 1/2000th second, and 1/2,500th second...........

Ya' can't do that with AB's!!!!!!

Quantum Q flash and a turbo compact is just as light, cheaper and is easier to trigger. You can also hang a Norman Octo off the front.

Mar 31 10 07:51 am Link