Retoucher
Lanenga
Posts: 843
Amsterdam, Noord-Holland, Netherlands
DerW wrote:
I just did some tests on the heal-on-high-frequency-with-a-blank-layer-on-top-without-having-so-different-display-technique ;-).
It seems like you could get a pretty accurate (about as accurate as standard high pass) result, if you create a stack of three layers after you did the separation.
From bottom to top:
1. a neutral gray layer set to "Normal", 100% opacity.
2. the high pass layer set to "Linear Light", 100% opacity.
3. the low pass layer set to "Linear Light", 50% fill opacity.
Like in the high pass separation you'll lose details in the highlights and shadows, but I guess for a little non-destructive cloning/healing it'll work :-).
Best regards,
Jonas I don't get it...
Retoucher
DerW
Posts: 254
Willich, North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany
Lanenga wrote:
I don't get it... It seemed to work, but unfortunately repairing on a new layer doubles up the effect of the repair.
I'll do more testing and probably a video if I can get it to work properly :-).
Best regards,
Jonas
Photographer
rey sison photography
Posts: 1805
Los Angeles, California, US
Lanenga wrote:
Ok I think I am done testing and I believe Photons2Pixels might have a very nice solution here! 
I would like to suggest the following changes
1. Do the frequency separation.
2. Duplicate the High Pass layer(CTRL/CMD+J on the HP layer)
3. Create a clipping mask of the HP layer copy(ALT/OPTION+Click between the two HP layers)
4. Set blending mode on HP layer copy to Normal
5. Use your Healing Brush/Clone stamp with Sample mode set to Current Layer
6. Add a layer mask if you want to mask out mistakes.
No switching and you can still see what you are doing Hey Carlos:
Your version of Photons' techniques worked like a charm. I tried it almost as soon as I got home. Had to finish HBO movie first.
God, I hope this doesn't mean you guys win the award. If you do, don't forget your pals, Angela and me.
Retoucher
DerW
Posts: 254
Willich, North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany
Here's an action to do the healing/cloning on a blank layer: http://www.sendspace.com/file/o2x050 Unfortunately, you'll have to have layers named "LOW" and "HIGH" and nothing in between (but I guess, it's easy enough to modify the action properly). I'll edit this post with a video that explains all the steps after I'm finished uploading. Best regards, Jonas PS: To be honest with you, I don't know, if this is worth the effort. I like Carlos' idea better :-). Edit: Here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9dzyTvj7f8
Photographer
Photons 2 Pixels Images
Posts: 17011
Berwick, Pennsylvania, US
Lanenga wrote:
Ok I think I am done testing and I believe Photons2Pixels might have a very nice solution here!
I would like to suggest the following changes
1. Do the frequency separation.
2. Duplicate the High Pass layer(CTRL/CMD+J on the HP layer)
3. Create a clipping mask of the HP layer copy(ALT/OPTION+Click between the two HP layers)
4. Set blending mode on HP layer copy to Normal
5. Use your Healing Brush/Clone stamp with Sample mode set to Current Layer
6. Add a layer mask if you want to mask out mistakes.
No switching and you can still see what you are doing Interesting. Nice approach.
The reason I did it the other way was because there were some who wanted to heal/clone onto a blank layer. This way, if they saved and closed the document, then came back to it later and realized a few spots weren't quite right, they could simply use the eraser on those spots on the blank layer and go from there.
Personally, I just heal right onto the HP layer myself, mistakes be damned.  If necessary, I could always run another split from the original and lasso the areas I messed up on, copy and paste them onto the original HP. This way I don't have to redo the whole HP layer healing stuff. The only time I use the blank layer is for when I'm using the clone stamp on the HF layer, which is very rare.
Retoucher
Lanenga
Posts: 843
Amsterdam, Noord-Holland, Netherlands
Photons 2 Pixels Images wrote:
The reason I did it the other way was because there were some who wanted to heal/clone onto a blank layer. This way, if they saved and closed the document, then came back to it later and realized a few spots weren't quite right, they could simply use the eraser on those spots on the blank layer and go from there. This works the same way, except that there is no need to switch between layers anymore. And if you made a mistake, you either mask it out or duplicate a new version from the HP layer without having to split the image again.
Photons 2 Pixels Images wrote:
Personally, I just heal right onto the HP layer myself, mistakes be damned. If necessary, I could always run another split from the original and lasso the areas I messed up on, copy and paste them onto the original HP. This way I don't have to redo the whole HP layer healing stuff. The only time I use the blank layer is for when I'm using the clone stamp on the HF layer, which is very rare. Same here. I used to just work on the HP layer, but apparently there is a need for working on a separate layer and this would be a better way of doing so 
I think I might start doing it this way too...
Retoucher
Lanenga
Posts: 843
Amsterdam, Noord-Holland, Netherlands
DerW wrote:
Here's an action to do the healing/cloning on a blank layer: http://www.sendspace.com/file/o2x050
Unfortunately, you'll have to have layers named "LOW" and "HIGH" and nothing in between (but I guess, it's easy enough to modify the action properly).
I'll edit this post with a video that explains all the steps after I'm finished uploading.
Best regards,
Jonas
PS: To be honest with you, I don't know, if this is worth the effort.
I like Carlos' idea better :-).
Edit: Here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9dzyTvj7f8 Watched video.
It's similar to P2P's second method, but also way too many steps for me
rey sison photography wrote:
Hey Carlos:
Your version of Photons' techniques worked like a charm. I tried it almost as soon as I got home. Had to finish HBO movie first.
God, I hope this doesn't mean you guys win the award. If you do, don't forget your pals, Angela and me. If you turn it into a video and drop photons2pixels and my name/action then we could share 
But I think RK is not even paying attention anymore
Photographer
Beautiful Sundays
Posts: 3852
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Frequency separation has been a part of skin touching for ages. The reason 'high pass sucks' is that there are better ways to isolate HF than HP (which has been discussed +++++). The following is a step-by-step which incorporates much of what has already been discussed (especially Angela's video), as well as a few things which maintain maximum flexibility. 16-bit technique...8-bit adjustments as noted prior. Go ahead and clean up huge boils, warts etc before splitting. Then, since we are talking about skin, I like to pre-select the skin and minimize masking later...here we go: Open Image, make copy (habit), Select, Color range, then use eyedropper/fuzziness to get all the skin. Hit ctrl-J twice, making 2 skin layers. For the sake of consistency with the other posts, name the lower LF, the upper HF. Use eraser to get rid of non-skin missed by the selection. Activate LF layer, right-click-convert to smart object. Then go to filter, blur, surface, and choose a baseline setting (Say R25 T20 for starters). Then okay. Go for a coffee (if you want gauss just use portrait pro instead). Activate HF layer, apply image, 16-bit recipe (LF layer, invert, 100%, add, scale2, offset 0). Blend to linear light (you will be able to play with blends later). EDIT--After chatting w Lanenga, a better healing method: Make TWO HF layers, keep one for safe-keeping, and turn the eyeball off. Activate the other HF layer, and heal/clone directly on this layer using CURRENT LAYER ONLY as source. You will be able to see what yr doing, but the sampling and correcting will occer on the HF layer only. The other original HF is kept in the file (just in case).--END EDIT Go ahead and play....non-destructively and with no need to create a clipping mask for HF healing (which I use mainly for adjustment layer isolation anyway). That's it...HOWEVER, everything is open and adjustable. Play w blend modes, opacity etc. The smart object surf blur allows you to re-open and adjust Rad/Thresh as needed...plus there is a mask...cool...). This is just one way to do it, but I like the versatility/flexibility/save-ability. Am I a contender??
Photographer
Photons 2 Pixels Images
Posts: 17011
Berwick, Pennsylvania, US
Angela Michelle Perez wrote:
Oops sorry guys yeah sorry about the misunderstanding with the blank layer I just like to do my cloning on a blank layer because sometimes I have to go back and mask so I rather not work on the high frequency layer itself even though it will yield the best results. I should have clarified that plus I'm not a master retoucher But Photons technique it's exactly what I was trying to find how to achieve as far as working just texture in a non destructive way that you can go back and just mask if you have to instead of starting all over.
Thanks to everyone who liked the video I might make one with a better explanation and doing the cloning step differently . I was just trying to show the frequency separation part more than anything, I probab
ly won't upload to youtube though since I've received nasty comments from so called high end retouchers saying the technique sucks and that I should get a mac people are hilarious. Well Ciao and good night.
Angie Again, I don't mean to pick on you or appear to be giving unsolicited critiques but the video you showed here really doesn't show a use of separation. The same thing could be done without separating using the healing brush.
As near as I can tell the healing brush itself uses something similar to separation to achieve the result of transferring texture only. The problem is that it is automated to guess the frequency (blur radius) of the detail you are going for and won't always get it right.
I hope you do make more videos. It's definitely something useful.
Photographer
Photons 2 Pixels Images
Posts: 17011
Berwick, Pennsylvania, US
Just to clarify the reason I came up with that second way of using a blank layer...
Some people do prefer a blank layer onto which they heal/clone. Each person has their own reasons but the main idea is that it makes it easier to go back to a single spot and redo it. This is especially true if the document has been saved, closed, and now reopened. A simple eraser in the blank layer at that spot will bring that spot back to original and then you can redo that spot. Masking doesn't allow for redoing as that spot will still be covered up.
Neither way is really better, just different for individual needs. My own workflow is geared such that Carlos' method fits better. I typically don't use a blank layer for the HF work as it is but if I do, it'll probably be his way.
Retoucher
Lanenga
Posts: 843
Amsterdam, Noord-Holland, Netherlands
Photons 2 Pixels Images wrote:
A simple eraser in the blank layer at that spot will bring that spot back to original and then you can redo that spot. Masking doesn't allow for redoing as that spot will still be covered up. Very true, but I thought of that.
If you really need to redo a spot and you can't undo:
1. Mask your mistake out
2. Duplicate the original HP layer(CMD/CTRL+J)
3. Merge masked out HP Layer with duplicated HP Layer
4. Turn into clipping mask again (OPTION/ALT+Click between the two layers)
Photographer
Richard Vernon
Posts: 89
Birmingham, England, United Kingdom
I have the same concern about the video, and its a major concern, not just a little detail. after splitting frequencies, sticking a cloning layer on top with 'current and below' doesnt make any use of the split; it will just get exactly the same result as if you had never split it. I clone onto the HF layer directly with 100% hardness 100% opacity, current layer only. if i make a big mistake (which is hardly ever that i cant just 'undo' it) i can easily enough make another HF layer on top with the correct masking on both to get it back to the original. For the LF layer, sure blank layer 'current and below' cloning is perfect and non-destructible.
Photographer
Beautiful Sundays
Posts: 3852
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Richard Vernon wrote:
I have the same concern about the video, and its a major concern, not just a little detail. after splitting frequencies, sticking a cloning layer on top with 'current and below' doesnt make any use of the split; it will just get exactly the same result as if you had never split it. I clone onto the HF layer directly with 100% hardness 100% opacity, current layer only. if i make a big mistake (which is hardly ever that i cant just 'undo' it) i can easily enough make another HF layer on top with the correct masking on both to get it back to the original. For the LF layer, sure blank layer 'current and below' cloning is perfect and non-destructible. For HF healing you can do what you mention...100%Hard/Opac on a BLANK layer on top of the HF layer. Just Use C&B but blind out all but the HF-Blank...it only samples visible layers..
EDIT--SEE IMPORTANT REVISION IN MAIN METHOD--thx to Lanenga for the discussion which led to the revision.
Photographer
Photons 2 Pixels Images
Posts: 17011
Berwick, Pennsylvania, US
Lanenga wrote:
Very true, but I thought of that.
If you really need to redo a spot and you can't undo:
1. Mask your mistake out
2. Duplicate the original HP layer(CMD/CTRL+J)
3. Merge masked out HP Layer with duplicated HP Layer
4. Turn into clipping mask again (OPTION/ALT+Click between the two layers) That works. But the best method of all is: Don't make changes that you'll have to redo. (
Photographer
Photons 2 Pixels Images
Posts: 17011
Berwick, Pennsylvania, US
Beautiful Sundays wrote:
For HF healing you can do what you mention...100%Hard/Opac on a BLANK layer on top of the HF layer. Just Use C&B but blind out all but the HF-Blank...it only samples visible layers.. The problem with this way is it's difficult to see exactly what effect you are having on the overall image.
Retoucher
Lanenga
Posts: 843
Amsterdam, Noord-Holland, Netherlands
Retoucher
Lanenga
Posts: 843
Amsterdam, Noord-Holland, Netherlands
Lanenga wrote:
If you really need to redo a spot and you can't undo:
1. Mask your mistake out
2. Duplicate the original HP layer(CMD/CTRL+J)
3. Merge masked out HP Layer with duplicated HP Layer
4. Turn into clipping mask again (OPTION/ALT+Click between the two layers) Forgot to add the last step:
5. Set blending mode back to Normal again
Photographer
Beautiful Sundays
Posts: 3852
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Lanenga wrote:
Yes Beautiful Sundays, we've been over this...
https://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thre … st13863456
It is almost like you really just want us to say you're right, you can do it that way.
If you don't care what it looks like, then yes, you could use Angela's method.
If you'd like to see what effect your changes have and have an accurate visual reference, then no, this would not be the best way to go.
But yes you're right, it could be done that way too Sorry, was at breakfast.
The only sensible and easy solution to this 'problem' is this:
Create a second HF layer...call it 'original' and make it 'blind' for now.
Touchup on the first HF (touches) as you like DIRECTLY (as mentioned by Dan), but use the 'current layer only' sampling source.
This way you
a) Can see everything without sampling anything but the HF layer
b) Have the 'corrections' on a separate HF layer rather than a 'blank'.
c) Still have the original HF, since we don't like destroying original layers.
This might be what you guys were discussing...seems easy enough...so easy I'm sure you mentioned it somewhere...
Retoucher
Lanenga
Posts: 843
Amsterdam, Noord-Holland, Netherlands
Beautiful Sundays wrote:
Sorry, was at breakfast.
The only sensible and easy solution to this 'problem' is this:
Create a second HF layer...call it 'original' and make it 'blind' for now.
Touchup on the first HF as you like DIRECTLY (as mentioned by Dan), but use the 'current layer only' sampling source.
This way you
a) Can see everything without sampling anything but the HF layer
b) Have the 'corrections' on a separate HF layer rather than a 'blank'.
c) Still have the original HF, since we don't like destroying original layers.
This might be what you guys were discussing...seems easy enough... And that is exactly what this method is doing...
Glad we got your support
Photographer
Beautiful Sundays
Posts: 3852
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Lanenga wrote:
And that is exactly what this method is doing...
Glad we got your support It's cool when guys team up and find solutions. I skipped over much of what you guys wrote re this, since the 'solution' is 3 sentences.
Anyway, it's been fun, and enjoy the problem solving
Photographer
Beautiful Sundays
Posts: 3852
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
PS -I updated my submission on my original post-protocol to include the improved sampling/healing thing...gave u credit for the discussion.
Retoucher
Lanenga
Posts: 843
Amsterdam, Noord-Holland, Netherlands
Retoucher
Lanenga
Posts: 843
Amsterdam, Noord-Holland, Netherlands
Photographer
Beautiful Sundays
Posts: 3852
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Lanenga wrote:
Maybe... 
btw, you spelled my name wrong Sh!t..let me get that...srry...I'm supposed to be on the road already and am rushing....but....can't...pull...myself....away........
Photographer
Beautiful Sundays
Posts: 3852
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Fixed. I'm gone for the day...will catch up to what u guys have sorted out later...
Photographer
Jerry Bennett
Posts: 2223
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US
Photons 2 Pixels Images wrote:
Interesting. Nice approach.
The reason I did it the other way was because there were some who wanted to heal/clone onto a blank layer. This way, if they saved and closed the document, then came back to it later and realized a few spots weren't quite right, they could simply use the eraser on those spots on the blank layer and go from there.
Personally, I just heal right onto the HP layer myself, mistakes be damned. If necessary, I could always run another split from the original and lasso the areas I messed up on, copy and paste them onto the original HP. This way I don't have to redo the whole HP layer healing stuff. The only time I use the blank layer is for when I'm using the clone stamp on the HF layer, which is very rare. I'm confused. I just dupe the high frequency layer, turn off the original, and work on the dupe. Once I like my retouch on the dupe layer, I throw out the original. Same with the low frequency layer....
Photographer
Beautiful Sundays
Posts: 3852
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Jerry Bennett wrote:
I'm confused. I just dupe the high frequency layer, turn off the original, and work on the dupe. Once I like my retouch on the dupe layer, I throw out the original. Same with the low frequency layer.... Read on..I think what you do is correct and is what these guys are basically suggesting....except I keep originals in my psd files...never know.
Photographer
A-M-P
Posts: 18465
Orlando, Florida, US
I just redid the video and fixed my mistakes, I'm not perfect neither a high end retoucher lol This time I tried to explain it in the most easiest way without using too many layers because I really wanted to keep it very simple and bare minimum. I'm pretty sure everyone can find their own work flow with all the suggestions here as long as they have a grasp of just the basics. So I kept it at just basics in the new video I will replacing old video with new one. Ciao Angie New video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMyaeZmkZD8
Retoucher
Lanenga
Posts: 843
Amsterdam, Noord-Holland, Netherlands
Jerry Bennett wrote:
I'm confused. I just dupe the high frequency layer, turn off the original, and work on the dupe. Once I like my retouch on the dupe layer, I throw out the original. Same with the low frequency layer.... 1. Do the frequency separation.
2. Duplicate the High Pass layer(CTRL/CMD+J on the HP layer)
3. Create a clipping mask of the HP layer copy(ALT/OPTION+Click between the two HP layers)
4. Set blending mode on HP layer copy to Normal
5. Use your Healing Brush/Clone stamp with Sample mode set to Current Layer
6. Add a layer mask if you want to mask out mistakes.
Photographer
Photons 2 Pixels Images
Posts: 17011
Berwick, Pennsylvania, US
Angela Michelle Perez wrote:
I just redid the video and fixed my mistakes, I'm not perfect neither a high end retoucher lol This time I tried to explain it in the most easiest way without using too many layers because I really wanted to keep it very simple and bare minimum. I'm pretty sure everyone can find their own work flow with all the suggestions here as long as they have a grasp of just the basics. So I kept it at just basics in the new video I will replacing old video with new one.
Ciao
Angie
New video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMyaeZmkZD8 Nice. If you plan on doing more, I have suggestions for you if you want them.
Photographer
A-M-P
Posts: 18465
Orlando, Florida, US
Photons 2 Pixels Images wrote:
Nice. If you plan on doing more, I have suggestions for you if you want them. Sure you can message me
Photographer
Photons 2 Pixels Images
Posts: 17011
Berwick, Pennsylvania, US
Angela Michelle Perez wrote:
Sure you can message me OK. I'll sit down later today after work and write some ideas/suggestions for you.
Retoucher
Easy-Photoshopper
Posts: 360
Adelaide, South Australia, Australia
it seems there are alot of people on here saying why bother doing this thread but i think its great - video tutorials (for me) i find much easier to learn when its dumbed down and made easy to uinderstand and i think that angela has done this
Photographer
Beautiful Sundays
Posts: 3852
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Easy-Photoshopper wrote:
it seems there are alot of people on here saying why bother doing this thread but i think its great - video tutorials (for me) i find much easier to learn when its dumbed down and made easy to uinderstand and i think that angela has done this Did you also notice one of the 'why bother asking' people made a new thread for himself trying to address OP's original request using an action...self-bumps alot too
Photographer
Beautiful Sundays
Posts: 3852
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
I'm gonna bug OP about the reward too....where is it?
Photographer
A-M-P
Posts: 18465
Orlando, Florida, US
Beautiful Sundays wrote:
I'm gonna bug OP about the reward too....where is it? I don't know
Who ended up getting the reward?
Photographer
Photons 2 Pixels Images
Posts: 17011
Berwick, Pennsylvania, US
Beautiful Sundays wrote:
Did you also notice one of the 'why bother asking' people made a new thread for himself trying to address OP's original request using an action...self-bumps alot too Huh?
No one said "Why bother asking?" We (and yes, I know you are including me in this group also) simply stated that the information the OP was asking for has already been asked for and answered multiple times in multiple threads. There was nothing new in this thread until Carlos and I started discussing a bit more than the OP was asking for. It was this bit more that Carlos made the action and subsequent thread about, not the OP's original request.
Photographer
Beautiful Sundays
Posts: 3852
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Photons 2 Pixels Images wrote:
Huh?
No one said "Why bother asking?" We (and yes, I know you are including me in this group also) simply stated that the information the OP was asking for has already been asked for and answered multiple times in multiple threads. There was nothing new in this thread until Carlos and I started discussing a bit more than the OP was asking for. It was this bit more that Carlos made the action and subsequent thread about, not the OP's original request. Oh I see.
I re-read the entire thread.....guess the main hope is that nobody else does
OP hasn't signed on for a while..I will PM and see what's going on.
(PS I made a new-thread submission as well....actually tried to do what OP requested...will see....)
Photographer
Beautiful Sundays
Posts: 3852
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Lanenga wrote:
Someone...
But, I don't really see the point of opening yet another thread on how to do this. Yet Lanenga thought it over and indeed did 'open yet another thread (himself) on how to do this'
This is just one example of the weird dynamics at play on these forums.
PS I also posted my rudimentary technique on a new thread, so I'm not dissing Lanenga for doing so...I like his action.
It just seems people were quite abrupt to OP for two pages, then went ahead and basically submitted what he was asking for all along...
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If necessary, I could always run another split from the original and lasso the areas I messed up on, copy and paste them onto the original HP. This way I don't have to redo the whole HP layer healing stuff. The only time I use the blank layer is for when I'm using the clone stamp on the HF layer, which is very rare. 
