Darren Woolway wrote:
Ok so everyone has been let down at some point, and for some of us it is 7 times in a row. Whether it be model, MUA, photographer etx. who does not turn up. So how do we combat the waste of time?

If it happens to you occasionally, suck it up, move on, use your contingency plan, and/or call you "emergency model".

If it happens to you often, you need to consider making changes to your selection & event planning processes.  Screen better.  And don't invest a lot of time & energy on a project with a model you haven't worked with.

Check references.

Darren Woolway wrote:
I have considered charging people a refundable deposit if they turn up but that will never happen. (we are talking TFP here although I have had one model not turn up to a paid shoot!)

Well, that will suck for you.  Most models won't agree to such a scheme.

And to be fair, would you agree to such a scheme?  Say, you have a wonderful TFP sitting with a model -- would you let her leave with a sizable & refundable deposit, to be returned when you deliver the promised pictures on time?

In my book -- if you don't trust a model, you shouldn't work with her.  And nothing will tell a model that you don't trust her by asking her for a deposit.

Darren Woolway wrote:
How about if a system was out in place that it named and shamed those non showers?

Sure.  Okay.  Hey, Everyone!  I loaned Darren Woolway $50 last week and he hasn't paid it back!  C'mon, Darren -- pay up!!!  Get the idea?  We don't know you, we don't know your model, we don't know what was communicated, we don't know which one of you failed to live up to your obligations, we don't know what your references said about you when the model asked, etc.  We don't have any reason to believe or disbelieve you.  For all we know, you are giving the model a bad name because she wouldn't go out with you.  In short, you are asking us to find the model guilty simply because you've accused her of being a no-show.

Suppose the model wants to dispute your rating -- how does she do that?

I also see lawsuits in the future of such schemes.

Darren Woolway wrote:
Maybe an online form that you all fill out, agreeing a time, a date and a place for the shoot, and if you wish to cancel your attendance you have to do so 'x' amount of hours before. If you fail to do this and you do not turn up then you will have a mark on your profile that will show you didn't show to a shoot. 3 no shows and your account gets deleted. Obviously the form should have certain checks put in place that it is accurate and only you can agree to the terms so that it can not be maliciously used.

Sounds like "high maintenance" to me.  I don't manage my entire photographic career through MM, and I see no reason why I should.

Darren Woolway wrote:
What are peoples views on this?

I think that if no-shows happen to you often, you need to stop blaming the model so much & start blaming yourself more.  There's always something you can improve.

I note that different photographers have vastly different flake ratios, even when they are working with a common pool of local models.  There's a reason for that.

Darren Woolway wrote:


if I ever didn't show to a shoot my name would go around the industry like fire and I would find it hard to get a job. Why is this scare factor non existent with TF?

Not all models, especially those willing to shoot TF*, are "professional" or "agency worthy".

I have no problem with you sharing feedback with people who you know & who know you.  I'm just saying that when a stranger-photographer tells me that a stranger-model didn't show, I have no reason to believe or disbelieve him.  Further, without hearing the model's side of the story, we are being asked to condemn the model as guilty by accusation, and that makes me uncomfortable.  Finally, if we use MM for this, we'd have no way to resolve disputes.

In general, all these schemes that you've proposed have been proposed before, and nothing comes of it. 

My observation:  all these schemes involve punishing the models (who may or may not be guilty), and people like me (who are fair minded) will resist such schemes.  Instead, you might be better off finding ways to improve your techniques so that your flake ratio improves.  For example, here are things you can consider doing...

...  Check references,
...  Pay the model,
...  Improve the appeal & quality of your resulting images,
...  Give the model edited photographs,
...  Check references,
...  Treat the model with more respect,
...  and so forth.

But the bottom line is: 
   >>>  I don't know you,
   >>>  I don't know what you say to the models,
   >>>  I don't know why the models apparently flaked,
   >>>  I don't even know that it was the model & not you who flaked.

Again, I have no problem with word getting around, but remember, models talk to models, too.  If you treat models poorly (by their definition), you, too, would find it increasingly difficult to find models.

Darren Woolway wrote:
Ok so everyone has been let down at somepoint, and for some of us it is 7 times in a row. Whether it be model, MUA, photographer etx. who does not turn up. So how do we combat the waste of time?

I have considered charging people a refundable deposit if they turn up but that will never happen. (we are talking TFP here although I have had one model not turn up to a paid shoot!)

How about if a system was out in place that it named and shamed those non showers?

Maybe an online form that you all fill out, agreeing a time, a date and a place for the shoot, and if you wish to cancel your attendance you have to do so 'x' amount of hours before. If you fail to do this and you do not turn up then you will have a mark on your profile that will show you didn't show to a shoot. 3 no shows and your account gets deleted. Obviously the form should have certain checks put in place that it is accurate and only you can agree to the terms so that it can not be maliciously used.

What are peoples views on this?

Sounds great in theory, but such a system would be vulnerable to the same libelous problems that plague Yelp.

Darren Woolway wrote:
I use to be a model so I see both sides of this. If I were going to work with a photographer that I really wanted to work with I would turn up, therefore I would have no issues passing a deposit.

When I shoot TFP I give all my images to the models on the day, yes they are unedited but they are technically correct in camera so it is only the advanced stuff I do to a select few images. It also stops the models hounding me for images and if they like they can give it to someone else to retouch as if I have a lot of paid work on that takes priority.

The idea is not to make it look like the person is bad because you didn't sleep with them... at the beginning of the shoot you can all sign on together to confirm you are all there. Yes it is a system that needs a lot of thought and planning but it is possible.

The main reason I have found for models not turning up is because I mainly shoot weekends and they have gone out the night before, got drunk and can't be bothered to get out of bed the next day. They don't let you know they aren't coming and then they write on their profiles 'no time wasters please' which is quite ironic.

I was a professional model for 5 years, with 3 agencies and if I ever didn't show to a shoot my name would go around the industry like fire and I would find it hard to get a job. Why is this scare factor non existent with TF? If a lot of these people want to become mainstream surely if they start to get a bad reputation now and people are aware of it they will find it harder to get paid work later and will put them off not showing...

Let me paraphrase a quote from the film Jurassic Park: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. We've already this issue before, and the majority has stated they aren't fans of it because of the potential of abuse,  the extreme lack oversight involved and ignoring the fact that MM has stated in the past it won't get involved in any personal disputes. Who gonna verify those claims? Do you have a lawyer on retainer? Finally, didn't Albert Einstein once said Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results? If this problem has been going on for more than 1 occasion, how can a feedback system fix the problem? Other people's action are something you can't control. You can only control yourself.

Darren Woolway wrote:
Ok so everyone has been let down at somepoint, and for some of us it is 7 times in a row. Whether it be model, MUA, photographer etx. who does not turn up. So how do we combat the waste of time?

You really can't besides having some backups for the original crew, and then you might as well get backup for the backups...

Darren Woolway wrote:
I have considered charging people a refundable deposit if they turn up but that will never happen. (we are talking TFP here although I have had one model not turn up to a paid shoot!)

TFP is TFP, money should not be involved unless your being a nice photographer and buying the models and Makeup Artists breakfast, lunch or dinner, which is what I try to do as a COURTESY.

Darren Woolway wrote:
How about if a system was out in place that it named and shamed those non showers?

That is a bad idea and only screams, “I am an immature vindictive prick and you really don’t want to work with me!"

Darren Woolway wrote:
Maybe an online form that you all fill out, agreeing a time, a date and a place for the shoot, and if you wish to cancel your attendance you have to do so 'x' amount of hours before. If you fail to do this and you do not turn up then you will have a mark on your profile that will show you didn't show to a shoot. 3 no shows and your account gets deleted. Obviously the form should have certain checks put in place that it is accurate and only you can agree to the terms so that it can not be maliciously used.

IF they are gonna flak, they will even flak with a online form...

Darren Woolway wrote:
What are peoples views on this?

You got them....

Darren Woolway wrote:
What are peoples views on this?

That this has been hashed out hundreds of times. Any kind of feedback system is fraught with potholes and isn't going to work.

If you're getting a number of flakes, re-evaluate your own methods.