Photographer
Photography by George
Posts: 1085
Orlando, Florida, US
Pardon me ladies and gents. I could use some help regarding renting a fairly large house say 4 or 5 bedrooms on the gulf somewhere around long boat, lido, etc for a week somewhere around late july, early august for a reception and guest facilities for my daughters wedding. I am not I repeat, I am not rich, so a good deal if you know of one would be greatly appreciated. We would like to have family stay in the house, and have a reception day of wedding. My daughter likes Anna Marie, so anywhere like that between Sarasota and south of Clearwater? would be great. If you know of something, please message me.
Thanks in advance,
George
Photographer
Carl Roberts
Posts: 33090
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US
Sorry George but I do not
Maybe GW Burns knows something
You might message him
Photographer
Photography by George
Posts: 1085
Orlando, Florida, US
Oh, and yes, it couldn't be just that easy. She wants it as close to the ritz carlton in Sarasota and possible, and close to a large park that will allow the wedding, and of course on the gulf for the sunsets.
Photographer
Photography by George
Posts: 1085
Orlando, Florida, US
Carl Roberts wrote:
Sorry George but I do not
Maybe GW Burns knows something
You might message him Thanks Carl, I will try to find him, is he on MM? I am thinking I may have to find a company that does rentals over there, and talk to them.
Photographer
Tropical Photography
Posts: 35564
Sarasota, Florida, US
George you might try this link.. http://www.vrbo.com/vacation-rentals/usa/florida Unlike O town, EVERYTHING is fairly close or can be gotten to fairly quickly.. Particularly during the summer.. And seriously, is she getting married outside in July??? Better have a back up in the event of weather.. I mean, it's going to be hot as hell.. And you doing the photography for her?
Photographer
joeyk
Posts: 14895
Seminole, Florida, US
It's gonna be hot as hell, in the 90's, it's gonna rain, it's gonna cost $5 Grand for the house for a week...
Photographer
Tropical Photography
Posts: 35564
Sarasota, Florida, US
joeyk wrote:
It's gonna be hot as hell, in the 90's, it's gonna rain, it's gonna cost $5 Grand for the house for a week... I see you quoted the summer low temps... LOL!!
Photographer
joeyk
Posts: 14895
Seminole, Florida, US
Tropical Photography wrote:
I see you quoted the summer low temps... LOL!! A: the beach "may" be cooler than inland...
B: 99 is in the 90's...
C: Should I have included the humidity??? (10000% btw )
Photographer
Carl Roberts
Posts: 33090
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US
joeyk wrote:
it's gonna cost $5 Grand for the house for a week... My condo rents for $3,500 a month
And it is one of a hundred
I'd say that a house RIGHT on the beach?
Yeah, $5,000 easy
Photographer
Photography by George
Posts: 1085
Orlando, Florida, US
Yeah, your all probably right. Her decision is based on her work or lack thereof during that period. I am sure we will have to have a backup plan. As for rates, I kinda figured 3 grand up. But hey, she is my only daughter, and hopefully she only does this once.
Model
orias
Posts: 5187
Tampa, Florida, US
Photography by George wrote:
........................As for rates, I kinda figured 3 grand up. But hey, she is my only daughter, and hopefully she only does this once. amen 
Model
orias
Posts: 5187
Tampa, Florida, US
Chris Rifkin wrote:
And some people wonder why some of us fly models down here that we are friends with or have shot with before  agreed
even though my stuff isn't up for sale and i have no money coming in from it yet, and nearly all my friends and model buddies volunteered to help for free until then....
i'd rather pay them something so i'm not having to bug people, having to get rescheduled on, having to deal with them without being super motivated, not being on their top performance, then not taking the shoot seriously, etc.
OwenImages wrote:
Must be nice to be rich.
I figure if I have a paying project then everyone gets paid...besides that I will struggle along like I always have. well i'm the opposite of rich, but i budget into my finances an investment towards my hobby and my future career models pay more of an important role than new equipment in my skill development, my company image, and my direction
one of my close photog friends says he cant afford to pay models, but he spends about $500 a month on strippers lol. he will be the first to tell you that his logic doesn't make sense but he still complains about not finding girls to shoot for free that are up to his standards so he's beenshooting for a decade and he still looks like he's only made a little step up in his port quality.
no he's not on mm. and all this crap was stuff hes actually said to me many times over the years lol
Photographer
Carl Roberts
Posts: 33090
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US
orias wrote:
but he still complains about not finding girls to shoot for free that are up to his standards so he's beenshooting for a decade and he still looks like he's only made a little step up in his port quality.
no he's not on mm. and all this crap was stuff hes actually said to me many times over the years lol Funny I just had a conversation with Jesse Walker about something similar
I pay models, but the models I have been getting in have been good but not stellar
Jesse suggests that I book much higher quality models for less time
So my outlay as far as money is the same, but the quality of my finished product should improve
I think I may start doing that
Photographer
joeyk
Posts: 14895
Seminole, Florida, US
Carl Roberts wrote:
Jesse suggests that I book much higher quality models for less time
So my outlay as far as money is the same, but the quality of my finished product should improve This is not directed at you Carl, but anyone that pays models as a way to improve their photography...
I call bull shit!
Photography skills don't improve by shooting a prettier, better built, more skilled, whatever, model. If the photographer lets the model do all of the work and just shoots it, I'll claim they won't learn crap.
A plumber doesn't learn more by working on better pipes, a mechanic doesn't learn more by working on a BMW instead of a Yugo.
If a photographer is looking to improve, they should take a real photography class ( not a model shootout ) and learn composition, cropping, posing for best look, lens length for subject, and MOST importantly lighting. It won't happen overnight.
I know someone who studied every ( exageration ) video on you-tube about photography and photoshop and she is now Very, very skilled.
As always, in my not so humble opinion...
/end rant.
Photographer
OwenImages
Posts: 3844
Pinellas Park, Florida, US
I agree with Joe. Happy Friday Everyone!
Photographer
Carl Roberts
Posts: 33090
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US
Joey Joey Joey....
What are you doing messing up my perfectly crafted master plan with logic?
Pfft...don't know what you are thinking boy
Model
orias
Posts: 5187
Tampa, Florida, US
joeyk wrote:
This is not directed at you Carl, but anyone that pays models as a way to improve their photography...
I call bull shit!
Photography skills don't improve by shooting a prettier, better built, more skilled, whatever, model. If the photographer lets the model do all of the work and just shoots it, I'll claim they won't learn crap.
A plumber doesn't learn more by working on better pipes, a mechanic doesn't learn more by working on a BMW instead of a Yugo.
If a photographer is looking to improve, they should take a real photography class ( not a model shootout ) and learn composition, cropping, posing for best look, lens length for subject, and MOST importantly lighting. It won't happen overnight.
I know someone who studied every ( exageration ) video on you-tube about photography and photoshop and she is now Very, very skilled.
As always, in my not so humble opinion...
/end rant. well statistically from all the people i've known.... the ones who've never paid for talent have made very little progress in many years.... the ones who have regularly paid for talent have improved dramatically in that time frame.
i assume the bulk of that is a mindset.... you take something more seriously when you have more riding on the shoot like a bigger investment. so you work harder to get exactly what you need from the shoot.... you become more efficient as a result.
i would never claim that a model gives someone better photographic ability like with using their camera functions or lights lol... thats retarded.
however it will dramatically improve their port from girls who can't pose, emote, do their own makeup, show up exhausted, etc. Now this is assuming they're paying a professional and not just a random girl who demands money which is no different than a free chick off the street in my opinion.
it raises your image and you'll attract higher clientele if you have higher professionals in your port. i've seen this countless times in many of my friends durations in photography.
but what do i know..... i've just done it both ways. worked with thousands of photogs who've done it both ways and all mentioned preferring to pay professionals due to a multitude of reasons the greatest of whuch is keeping their sanity.
clearly everyone has their own personal choice.... however if you havent done it both ways, you can't really claim one is better over the other for you.
different markets, niches, and interests will require different direction and decisions.
However certainly all the full time professional photogs i have ever met to this day which is a shitload, have preferred hiring talent for their personal projects as their time was too valuable to waste on waivering local gals.
i suppose if i had a lot of free time or only shot to cure my boredom or express my artistic side, i would prefer trade shooting... however my goal is commercialization of my work so it's a no brainer to pay over trade any day for me as i simply dont have the time or ambition to take baby steps towards my goals:)
it would be a fun to see photo examples from peoples first shoot, then a photo from a shoot 5 years later across the 2 types.... those that are strictly trade shooters, and those that are strictly pay shooters that wanted to pursue photography as a job/career and see who ended up where
i've only ever met 3 photogs that have only done trade and became full time photographers. whereas i've met thousands whom have done the alternative.
but again if making a living from this isn't a goal, then who cares how you choose to play with your artistic hobby
side note: plumbers are solicited employees not soliciting employers. so they'd be more synonymous to models while the homeowner to the photographer.
a more accurate analogy would be if the homeowner gets better plumbing when they pay a plumber or when they trade services with their plumber.
or perhaps,
does a painter become a better painter with more expensive tools? A model is a tool to your finished product just as a tube of paint is to a poainter, and being in a city where i am always at all the gallery shows, craft faires, art festivals, and art shops, all the painters are quite eager to upgrade the paint and not ust paint brushes (equipment) they use in order to get a smoother look in the end to bring their skills together for a better product
so a better brush wont teach you proper stroke, but it will help you get the most out of your stroke ( giggity giggity lol)
this is the only art community that brags they do not invest much in every aspect of their art formation.... it's strange to me... you should see some of these old ladies brag about their $2,000 loom and $75 merino wool yarn lol.
Photographer
Carl Roberts
Posts: 33090
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US
Photographer
Frank Lewis Photography
Posts: 14487
Winter Park, Florida, US
You go with what you can afford. Models with whom I have wanted to work with and I was willing to pay would usually not negotiate a payment. Usually $100/hour with a two hour minimum. Not so easy for me. So, I have to do the best with what I have, talent-wise. To entice a model to work with me TF, I try to provide a shoot scenario that the model has never done before. Something that the model would find interesting and/or exciting. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
I know that money drives everything in life and if I could afford to pay for talent I would. It's just that Social Security covers the rent and not much more...
Model
orias
Posts: 5187
Tampa, Florida, US
i agree you gotta see what kind of investment you can afford to make into your art, or hobby, or future career. then you determine which parts of it are worth more to invest in. I have a friend who buys a brand new camera every year and has only had one photoshoot with a human/model in 3 years because he lives in a remote area and says he cant afford to even offer traveling expenses. it doesnt sound to me that he's being very successful with becoming a portrait photographer to me  However if he only bought a new camera every other year or every 2 years, he'd still have awesome equipment as well as being able to get talent to his door and further his goal I've never asked someone to shoot with me for free, be it model or photographer. If i was looking i'd look at my finances and determine what their involvement was worth out of what i could spare from another area of my life. within a year of doing that i've never had a day where i wasnt offered paid work as a model or a photographer. some less than others but any rate is better than no rate when determining how serious someone is about the shoot and how much they want to work with you
Model
orias
Posts: 5187
Tampa, Florida, US
Model
orias
Posts: 5187
Tampa, Florida, US
Model
orias
Posts: 5187
Tampa, Florida, US
Model
orias
Posts: 5187
Tampa, Florida, US
Photographer
i c e c o l d
Posts: 8610
Fort Myers, Florida, US
Holy quintuple post Batman!
Photographer
Frank Lewis Photography
Posts: 14487
Winter Park, Florida, US
Wow! Quadruple post!
I am serious about my craft/art. Very serious. When I make an agreement, I stick to it. TF, as such, is not really free. Each party invests something in the event. The time spent is an investment. My equipment, as meager as it is, is an investment. Each party works hard to make sure that the results are the best that they can be. So nothing is really free. The parties involved have spent something to get the results. Time, money, emotion, etc...
Plus, when all is said and done and the project is finished for the day, I feed my models. After putting in all of that labor, they need to be nourished, not so?
This has been a dandy exchange, Orias. Thank you.
Model
orias
Posts: 5187
Tampa, Florida, US
Frank Lewis Photography wrote:
Wow! Quadruple post!
I am serious about my craft/art. Very serious. When I make an agreement, I stick to it. TF, as such, is not really free. Each party invests something in the event. The time spent is an investment. My equipment, as meager as it is, is an investment. Each party works hard to make sure that the results are the best that they can be. So nothing is really free. The parties involved have spent something to get the results. Time, money, emotion, etc...
Plus, when all is said and done and the project is finished for the day, I feed my models. After putting in all of that labor, they need to be nourished, not so?
This has been a dandy exchange, Orias. Thank you. i agree iu know you're very serious as i've seen you on here many years
but if you post a casting or message someone who hasnt known of your continuous photography passion and presence online, the only thing they can go on is the negotiation between you two.
and unfortunately due to a lot of guys who shoot trade only being interested in having hot or half naked chicks around them in their free time, it leads most people to have that hesitation.
If someone is paying it seem more like it could be a business investment than just someone whose bored or starved for female attention.
thats from a models perspective and thats how most ladies i know view their shoot offers and view casting calls
now obviously it's different after someone has hired me to shoot promotionally for them. if we had a good time. we connected. i saw they were as serious about this as i was, and i liked the result, i have no problem shooting trade with them in the future. Pay is a VERY good screening tactic to get through a potentially worthless test shoot and find something of higher value than income later
Photographer
OwenImages
Posts: 3844
Pinellas Park, Florida, US
Two parts... 1. The more knowledge and better training, the better end result. 2. The better the models, the better end result. If everyone could invest in BOTH of those, I believe their results would be maximized. Generally, I do not think I have had many problems with model quality on a TF* basis but the quantity of the better models on a TF* basis is a bit tough to handle at times. I do get paid work sometimes and that is nice but I would prefer more just like anyone else. I have plans to up my game a bit in the coming months and it will not involve the hiring of models unless I am getting paid (status quo) ...so I will be working on my training and knowledge in very specific areas, two key areas really and I am looking forward to it. With better knowledge will come a stronger portfolio which will result in more paid work and more willing quality TF* participants when desired. This is the route I am going. One of the secrets to improving is to know your weaknesses well! Happy Weekend Everyone! 
Model
orias
Posts: 5187
Tampa, Florida, US
OwenImages wrote:
Two parts...
1. The more knowledge and better training, the better end result.
2. The better the llamas, the better end result.
If everyone could invest in BOTH of those, I believe their results would be maximized. yeah i try to maintain a 50/50 balance between the two investments of my time and money. things flux one way at times but i've had the most success during times when they were closer to equal
Photographer
Koryo Photography
Posts: 1239
Tampa, Florida, US
I subscribe to the "improve your skills" school of thought. Since meeting and working with a few of the fine folks here, and joining and regularly participating in a local Strobist (off-camera flash) group, I feel that I've learned quite a bit, and I can see a marked difference in my current work versus a couple years ago (with the same equipment). I realize some here may beg to differ, haha...all good, I'm still learning I think it's perfectly fine to have a hobby or passion that you don't dump thousands of dollars into...I believe the time and effort you devote to something is the measure of it's value, not how much you spend on it. In regard to paying others, I would pay a Hair Stylist and/or MUA before I would pay a high-end model...at least for my style of shooting/concepts. Talented stylists and makeup folks make a night and day difference, I believe. I'm fully aware that I'm not shooting for TV/Video/Print publication (yet)...this is a hobby for me, that will hopefully evolve at some point. TF is just fine, I do it all the time, and we both get the desired results. I do usually cover gas/time in some way. From folks I talk to, seems like the subject matter plays a big role, as well. I would imagine those that work in the adult/nude/fetish/erotic fields have more paying opportunities (cams, vid clips, etc) that I might have doing kid's birthday parties, baptisms, family reunions, etc. Just my thoughts on my situation...we've all got different scenarios, different strokes.
Photographer
Image Works Photography
Posts: 2890
Orlando, Florida, US
I found I have a steady flow of models coming in and shooting with me. If you have the look and willing then I am up for it. I also began to go to meets last summer and it has further kept me busy. As a matter of fact, I am going to one tomorrow. Never know what surprises lay ahead but I always end up with some great shots worth the trip. I have paid in some way for some personal projects and it was worth it.
Photographer
EdwinR Photography
Posts: 3154
Gainesville, Florida, US
Im taking my daughter shopping for her soon to be birthday... love having her home..then sorting and touch ups on some shots.. busy day ahead.. hope everyone has a wonderful weekend..
Model
orias
Posts: 5187
Tampa, Florida, US
well i suppose it's because i need more talent since i shoot primarily video and require skillsets that take quite a while to harness so the couple of trades i was conned into doing were nice, but comparatively not worth my income loss for those hours compared to the professional ladies i hire However even with photo stuff, i save so much time by not having to direct people, by not having to point out someones best angle, not having to point out flaws, not having to answer questions, not having to mingle lol..... perhaps because i'm an efficiency nazi and antisocial, i just can't handle newer ladies or casual ladies who just shoot for fun lol
Photographer
EdwinR Photography
Posts: 3154
Gainesville, Florida, US
orias wrote:
well i suppose it's because i need more talent since i shoot primarily video and require skillsets that take quite a while to harness so the couple of trades i was conned into doing were nice, but comparatively not worth my income loss for those hours compared to the professional ladies i hire
However even with photo stuff, i save so much time by not having to direct people, by not having to point out someones best angle, not having to point out flaws, not having to answer questions, not having to mingle lol.....
perhaps because i'm an efficiency nazi and antisocial, i just can't handle newer ladies or casual ladies who just shoot for fun
lol Aww we love our little efficient nazi, antisocial model/producer
Photographer
Stay Young Photography
Posts: 724
Cocoa, Florida, US
How the heck did I miss this thread?!
Allergies in FL = Death
Model
orias
Posts: 5187
Tampa, Florida, US
EdwinR Photography wrote:
Aww we love our little efficient nazi, antisocial model/producer rofl thanks ;P
Model
orias
Posts: 5187
Tampa, Florida, US
Steve Young Photos wrote:
How the heck did I miss this thread?!
Allergies in FL = Death yeah what have you been waiting for?
yea allergies right now are not happy... my neighbors tree dropped all its pollen last week so now my house is a shade of yellow lol
Photographer
OwenImages
Posts: 3844
Pinellas Park, Florida, US
Any SSMNGs going on tonight that people wouldn't be too scared to include we in on?
Model
orias
Posts: 5187
Tampa, Florida, US
OwenImages wrote:
Any SSMNGs going on tonight that people wouldn't be too scared to include we in on? you can come with us to the dungeon in orlando tonight we're leaving at 7ish throw on some assless chaps and join hehe
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