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the canonical tfp agreement
i have been doing photography for several months now so sorry if i no longer qualify as a newbie... anyway, what is the canonical tfp? i have somehow received the impression that it is something like 10 copyrighted photos for a minimum 2 hour session. i prefer to photoshop my photos (light to moderate photoshopping only). light can take a few minutes to an hour. moderate means removing or adding objects, or re-framing, up to 5 hours or so. how should that enter into the equation? what do folks normally give out, web quality or hi-res? what would be a typical arrangement for a model for whom 10 photos is not enough? also many models like to leave before the postmortem. how does one choose the photos then? photographer's choice? tia... ~steve May 05 11 12:41 pm Link Ava Photography wrote: 1-2 images per look, web quality and high res. Ava Photography wrote: Here are my rates for additional images... May 05 11 12:45 pm Link I'm in the minority here but I give the model a disk with everything right out of the camera with instructions not to post anything yet, this is just for her to go over the pictures and let me know if there is anything she specifically wants cleaned up. (Usually the model is very good about waiting, but not always.) Then, like you, I do a quick run through, doing a light edit of the ones that I think best for both portfolios and within a week or two, unless she has requested something special, I mail her a second disk with everything I've edited sized both for print and for the web. It's a system that has worked very well for me and I wouldn't change it for anything. Some photographers give one or two per look, some one or two per shoot, and that's just fine if it works for them and for their models. My suggestion is first work out what you think is equitable and offer that in your initial discussion with the model. Most will probably be very happy with that. If not, there is nothing keeping you from negotiating a different arrangement that works for both of you. There's nothing standard other than that everyone should be happy with the deal. If not, it should be no deal, at least in my opinion. May 05 11 12:58 pm Link Ava Photography wrote: +1000 for use of an awesome vocabulary word. May 05 11 01:00 pm Link "+1000 for use of an awesome vocabulary word." Oh, let's do a shoot together!! Then, since you are the model, and I am just the mere less-than-human photographer, you can beat me up on a whim for imaginary injuries!! [Ouchouchouch!!!] :-) :-) :-) -s May 05 11 02:13 pm Link Yo sven, just for my edification, can you define "look"? Does it consist of a model and clothing/makeup, or all that plus background? Tia... -s May 05 11 02:15 pm Link Ava Photography wrote: A look is basically one scene if you imagine it in movie speak. May 05 11 02:25 pm Link I think the only thing that is recognized standard regarding TF is that both parties will receive some sort of images as compensation for their time. Anything beyond that is up for negotiation or up to a photogarpher to decide what offer they wish to make. I typically deliver images at size good for web viewing which is what most models I've worked with seem to prefer. I promise 10, but often deliver more. Yes, it takes a long time, to select and edit those.... I deliver them via a photo sharing site within a week of the shoot. Another observation relating to your editing time question is that more beginner models tend to favor more quantity and more experienced models who already have a solid port generally would prefer 1-2 images of the highest possible quality. May 05 11 02:30 pm Link The canonical tfp is 1-2 images per look, web quality and high res on cd. The nikonical tfp is 4 images per look, low res by e-mail. The pentaxian tfp is 2 prints per look, but no files. And the olympian tfp is 1 large res file per shooting hour, on dvd-ram. Simple. May 05 11 02:56 pm Link Ray, Thanks for providing a voice of rationality. I thought that was the industry norm too. Lo and behold, the model is now wanting all of my shots in a CD and furthermore she would have demanded it on the spot (she now says) but she was missing her laptop (she now says). She now says "I always get TFCD" which apparently to her means every shot taken is to be shared with her (even though she brought along another beginner model to the shoot, who has been so far silent in the post-shoot revisit of the negotiations and agreements before the shoot). I did not know her before the shoot so I did not know what she always got. She said she is almost always paid and this is her first TF-whatever (so why is she making the demands I wonder). This time I remembered to bring contracts which both models signed (they did not bring any contracts for me to sign). Alas the contracts do not mention what the model is to get (my inadvertent omission since it was originally slanted for paid modeling and the issue at hand is TFP modeling, I intend to fix that of course) but I did get it into a prior email to the model that it would be 10 or so photos for the shoot. I perceived that the following thread is also relevant to this thread: https://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=751121 I imagine that this is one of those issues that comes up every week but this just hit me today like a tsunami. A lot of the problem seems to be not having a contract to begin with. I thought I had left that behind by having a contract. Beyond the contract, a lot of the problem seems to be lack of time after the shoot to sit down together and go over the photos to cherrypick the 10 or so best ones. After one gets home, the confusion apparently starts to set in, and then it becomes he-said-she-said over whatever was said or not said at the shoot itself. Well, the photographer has a lot to do to be prepared for the shoot, and at least I find it totally consuming to make sure that all the equipment is in operating order, that I show up on time, and that as many photo shots come out as good as possible. By the time of the shoot we should all be agreed upon beforehand as to what will or will not happen (yes?). [Too much of this TF-whatever mayhem will drive me back to paid shoots at a far reduced frequency, argh...] -s May 05 11 02:58 pm Link Oh, Boy! You got a real winner there! I've never used contracts for TF but I do put the agreed-upon terms in a long confirming email immediately after setting a shoot date. If I did have someone push me like that (and I never have) my position would probably be that since, in my opinion none of the pictures were portfolio worthy, those already provided, i.e. the initial disk, satisfy my side of the bargain. Frankly, I never worry about a model putting up a bad picture or two because anyone that makes a value judgement on my work predicated on one or two pictures in someone else's port is not likely to be the brightest candle on the cake anyway, and therefore not bright enough to engage me in the first place. Good luck with this one! May 05 11 04:24 pm Link eclatante wrote: I don't believe in "per look" because no one seems to agree what a "look" is. If you're shooting formal agency fashion tests with complete changes of makeup, hair, and clothing, it's much different. May 05 11 07:38 pm Link Yeah Ray but wait it gets even further. I went over today's emails from her and at least two if not more she mentions getting her lawyer to initiate legal action against me. For what? I am not turning over all the photos to her, despite that my written contract that she and her novice model signed separately mention nothing about turning over any photos to her or her novice model. Furthermore she advises me that I should always provide a MUA to any TFP shoot because she always gets a MUA for her paid shoots. She wrote me that this is her first TFP shoot and it (and I) is (am) causing her a lot of stress. I wrote back and told her that if she did not drop that excrement immediately I would not willingly respond any further, and that by responding she explicitly agreed not to sue me. I bent over backwards for her. I think I actually got each look for both her and her newbie model (I am being polite by calling the newbie a model... I won't go into details but maybe you photographers out there have seen this kind of thing before, so nothing more need be said about it... I had explicitly asked for someone at her level beforehand... not getting someone at a suitably competent level just decreases drastically good photo yield IMHO). I gave them a total of 14 photos for a two hour shoot per my second email, and now she claims I owe them 10 photos each... I mean, I have expensive equipment. Expensive equipment does not grow on trees. I am offering a predefined modicum of my time for free. Time does not grow on trees. Gas and auto and bridge toll do not grow on trees. Yadayada. Sheesh! Where is it entitled that a model has unlimited access to all my raw photos without even a copyright imprinted when the contract the model actually signed does not mention any such thing?? Is it just me or is there a pervasive sense of entitlement that some models just presume they can get whatever they want from whoever they want just because someone else allegedly gave them some such treatment at some unspecified earlier point in time?? Anyone ever have a lawyer get involved in TFP agreements? If so, what happens? Do I lose my yacht and my first born son? Should I call Teddy Kennedy's family lawyer for a get out of jail free card?? Does anyone get out of TFP forever just because it is such a hassle to deal with prima donnas that feel entitled to everything regardless of what was agreed to in writing beforehand, and not obligated to do anything in return but just sit back and expect to be served for free?? I live in the real world, with bills, contracts, debts, payment for services rendered, as well as TFP... Where do such spoiled rotten people come from?? -s May 05 11 07:54 pm Link Art of the nude wrote: Art, that was exactly my first take. Every photo is in theory a separate look!! May 05 11 08:10 pm Link Ava Photography wrote: I thought a look was like Blue Steel or like the Magnum... May 05 11 08:20 pm Link Ava Photography wrote: Ignore her threats of legal action. Ava Photography wrote: Ignore her diva demands. Ava Photography wrote: Ignore her request for more photos. Ava Photography wrote: She doesn't care how much your equipment cost you. And neither should she. Ava Photography wrote: Some people feel entitled. Trick is to figure that out before the shoot and avoid them. Ava Photography wrote: No need for lawyers. You supplied what you agreed to. Ava Photography wrote: I have had very good luck with TFP and never had this sort of situation. I am clear up front about what they can expect. I can see why something like this would turn you off of TFP, but if you're clear up front and have a reasonable discussion with the model beforehand I doubt this will happen too often. May 05 11 08:28 pm Link eclatante wrote: I have nothing to add to this thread, I just love this quote. May 05 11 08:29 pm Link Ava Photography wrote: I define it as a dramatic change in setting or wardrobe. YMMV. May 06 11 02:10 am Link eclatante wrote: Does that mean that the leican tfp when you do it with Ken Rockwell? Or when it's shot as street photography? May 06 11 02:33 am Link David, You wrote: "I have had very good luck with TFP and never had this sort of situation. I am clear up front about what they can expect. I can see why something like this would turn you off of TFP, but if you're clear up front and have a reasonable discussion with the model beforehand I doubt this will happen too often." Well I would like to feel this way. I also tried my best to be clear within the confines of not being so pedantic that it turns the models off. The following is what I wrote her in email (before she brought the second model tagalong idea into play). /* Begin 1st Email to model 1 */ Hi *******, I would be interested in shooting with you this Saturday. Please feel free to let me know if interested. I like your Pam Grier look. Best, Steve /* End 1st Email to model 1 */ /* Begin 2nd Email to model 1 */ Hi *******, Thank you for the kind words. I would like to work with you. Hope the following is acceptable. We could try Thursday. (I have engagement Wed.) If that is ok with you, for sake of definitiveness, I could suggest we could try for 9 AM. (Alternative perhaps next Monday if you would still be available that far off). I would propose a TFP model agreement right off, followed by 2-4 hours of shoot (i think 3 hours or more preferable presuming it is going good). For sake of definitiveness we could just do SF city outdoors. My first thought would be a walk from Ferry Bldg to Powell St. via Chinatown. If we don't get a full 4 hrs we would have to turn back partway (but whatever). If we have more time we could do something loction- iconic (like GG Bridge background shots). If you wanted suggestions on what to wear, you could bring anything you think looks good on you with maybe 2-3 changes, and if you want iconic, maybe a bikini if you are into that. I saw your doll pic and would add that I like cosplay but only authentic (not the common usa imitation-- most of the stuff i see, even in Jtown, tends to be the latter to my eyes). These are just starter ideas so if you have something you think you would look good in and are really enthusiastic about it please feel free to let me know. Once we settle on a date and time we should exchange cell phone numbers for last moment emergencies. After the shoot maybe we can cool heels at a Peets, cherrypick and watermark a selection (eg 10 or so) of the better photos on a laptop. Otherwise I can email you within a couple of days. All the best, -Steve /* End 2nd Email to model 1 */ And here is the model release form I had both model 1 and model 2 sign at the beginning of the shoot. /* BEGIN MODELING RELEASE */ MODELING RELEASE Form LF-1 In consideration of my engagement as a model, upon the terms herewith stated, I hereby give to_______________________________________________________________his heirs, legal representatives and assigns, those for whom_____________________________________________is acting, and those acting with his/her authority and permission: a) the unrestricted right and permission to copyright and use, re-use, publish, and republish photographic portraits or pictures of me or in which I may be included intact or in part, composite or distorted in character or form, without restriction as to changes or transformations in conjunction with my own or a fictitious name, or reproduction hereof in color or otherwise, made through any and all media now or hereafter known for illustration, art, promotion, advertising, trade, or any other purpose whatsoever. b) I also permit the use of any printed material in connection therewith. c) I hereby relinquish any right that I may have to examine or approve the completed product or products or the advertising copy or printed matter that may be used in conjunction therewith or the use to which it may be applied. d) I hereby release, discharge and agree to save harmless [photographer], his/her heirs, legal representatives or assigns, and all persons functioning under his/her permission or authority, or those for whom he/she is functioning, from any liability by virtue of any blurring, distortion, alteration, optical illusion, or use in composite form whether intentional or otherwise, that may occur or be produced in the taking of said picture or in any subsequent processing thereof, as well as any publication thereof, including without limitation any claims for libel or invasion of privacy. e) I hereby affirm that I am over the age of majority and have the right to contract in my own name. I have read the above authorization, release and agreement, prior to its execution; I fully understand the contents thereof. This agreement shall be binding upon me and my heirs, legal representatives and assigns. Dated: ________________Signed:_____________________________________ Address:__________________________________________________________ City:_____________________________________________________________ State/Zip:__________________________________________________________ Phone:____________________________________________________________ Witness:___________________________________________________________ /* END MODELING RELEASE */ The main issue here (I am trying informally to accomodate the second model being in the shoot requiring increasing the number of photos) is that I was upfront that she not get all the photos! I never promised her that! (Sheesh!) May 06 11 08:32 am Link eclatante wrote: Excellent, just excellent. May 06 11 08:43 am Link |
