Photographer
Dan Howell Tearsheets
Posts: 572
Jersey City, New Jersey, US
RayH Photography wrote:
Am I being old fashioned? I only considered myself to have worked for someone if they've paid me.
I'm not sure about having worked "with" someone. I feel that involves some kind of exchange, possibly. Actually, in regards to magazine publishing, I have a higher standard for what defines 'worked with'. It's not just appearing in/on or receiving payment. I don't put every magazine that has published one of my images from stock on my resume/client list yet the image appeared in print and the check cleared the bank. My definition includes working under the direction of the art/photo/editorial staff of the magazine.
The has always been a difference between the industry and the internet. Sometimes I feel that people in the industry say they have done something when they've done it 10 times whereas internet people claim they've done some thing 10 times when they've only done it once. Maybe they'll learn when they show their portfolios to real publication or legit modeling agencies. My guess is, not.
There's more than one photographer here on MM that lists credits from event/paparazzi shots as 'working for' or on their client list--not even on assignment, strictly thru stock and wire service. Somehow I'm the bad-guy when I point that out to models. Or maybe I should just go with the flow and add American Vogue, Playboy, Penthouse, People, Entertainment Weekly, Newsweek, and Town & Country to my client list.
Photographer
Kool Koncepts
Posts: 965
Saint Louis, Michigan, US
Dan Howell Tearsheets wrote:
Actually, in regards to magazine publishing, I have a higher standard for what defines 'worked with'. It's not just appearing in/on or receiving payment. I don't put every magazine that has published one of my images from stock on my resume/client list yet the image appeared in print and the check cleared the bank. My definition includes working under the direction of the art/photo/editorial staff of the magazine.
The has always been a difference between the industry and the internet. Sometimes I feel that people in the industry say they have done something when they've done it 10 times whereas internet people claim they've done some thing 10 times when they've only done it once. Maybe they'll learn when they show their portfolios to real publication or legit modeling agencies. My guess is, not.
There's more than one photographer here on MM that lists credits from event/paparazzi shots as 'working for' or on their client list--not even on assignment, strictly thru stock and wire service. Somehow I'm the bad-guy when I point that out to models. Or maybe I should just go with the flow and add American Vogue, Playboy, Penthouse, People, Entertainment Weekly, Newsweek, and Town & Country to my client list. With the greatest respect, you should be more concerned telling models what you can do for them and not what others cannot!
Photographer
K E S L E R
Posts: 11574
Los Angeles, California, US
Nailed it on the head buddy! I hate that shit, esp when I see it all over facebook, "PUBLISHED, VOGUE ITALIA!!!!" Then I click and LoL'ed
Photographer
Chuckarelei
Posts: 11271
Seattle, Washington, US
K E S L E R wrote:
Nailed it on the head buddy! I hate that shit, esp when I see it all over facebook, "PUBLISHED, VOGUE ITALIA!!!!" Then I click and LoL'ed Well, technically they are not lying. They are just not telling the truth. 
Photographer
Giacomo Cirrincioni
Posts: 22232
Stamford, Connecticut, US
Sometimes, with ad work at least, I will mention it - but I won't say "published by" the magazine. I just detail what I did, which is important in this day of online or catalog work vs. advertising work (because of the very phenomenon you describe).
For example let's say that I'm hired by Snape Industries to shoot the 2012 advertising campaign for the new line of Snapeomatics. It's a big deal, the photos may not be all that by MM standards (standard product adv), but it's still a national ad campaign which is going to run for the year in national and perhaps international publications. Snape industries is also going to need some basic shot on white shots for their website and catalog, however, they're not going to hire me to do that, I would charge them too much. So they hire a less expensive shooter or they produce those shots in-house.
Well, if I'm listing the gig for Snape on my C.V., I would say that I shot the 2012 national ad campaign of the Snapeomatic for Snape Industries, which ran year long in publications such as Popular Snapeing, Better Snapes and Gardens and Snape Illustrated. This let's people know that, when they see that ad, I shot it and differentiates me from the guy who shot the white cutout work and says that he "shot the 2012 product line for Snape".
Photographer
K E S L E R
Posts: 11574
Los Angeles, California, US
Chuckarelei wrote:
Well, technically they are not lying. They are just not telling the truth. more like misleading
Or better yet, the posts I've seen where people say, "Shooting for Vogue Italia!" Another lol'er
Photographer
Giacomo Cirrincioni
Posts: 22232
Stamford, Connecticut, US
Neil Snape wrote:
With the demise of print publication and full digital delivery of subscription magazines, my views will undoubtedly have to change. I was recently asked to submit a proposal to an international company for doing their 2012 on-line marketing campaign, to include both photo and video as well as some copy work. This is a very well known company and the scope of this assignment is quite a bit bigger than shooting an image for an advertisement - and the budget reflects that. I's simply product work, nothing glamorous, but it is a good gig to get. Should work like that not be mentioned?
Of course, I understand your point, I'm simply pointing out that, indeed, times are changing a bit.
Photographer
Jerry Nemeth
Posts: 33355
Dearborn, Michigan, US
Kool Koncepts wrote:
With the greatest respect, you should be more concerned telling models what you can do for them and not what others cannot! I know that he can do a lot for models.
Photographer
Boho Hobo
Posts: 25351
Santa Barbara, California, US
Neil Snape wrote:
Now how do you feel about photographers lying about themselves, to convince others of their greatness that doesn't exist?
/rant I can't say I'm surprised.
What sounds better, "Joe Blow has his pulse on fashion. Having appeared in Vogue Italia, Elle and others, shooting ads for MAC, L'Oreal to name a few, you can count on Joe Blow to deliver."
(his photos were online in a submit your photo contest and his ads consisted of local salon showcases).
This versus "Joe Blow shoots model portfolios and needs to sound connected so that models will pay for him for portfolio development. Joe has no tears to date except if you count the shots he took for his Craigslist ad to sell his early model ipod and and his dad's stamp collection."
Which one is more likely to get the models drawn in?
Who is more likely to get that internet buzz of moths drawn to a flame?
I tend to see this a lot in smaller communities, the Vogue or Playboy template thrown over a photo to make it appear like it was a tear. Greatly embellished bio accounts of ones greatness (this too because in smaller communities you're more able to get away with this and because you are more apt to have a population interested/desperate to break into "the industry") and so Joe Blows with big stories and promises can have a certain allure.
With the whole internet Be-A-Star culture, I'm actually surprised it doesn't happen more often!
Model
PennyPistol
Posts: 36
Dallas, Texas, US
I see this also with girls who claim playboy model but only as cyber girl. Not in the main issue or any issue. Some even claim the grapevine part in the back. In the magazine but not shot for playboy. One girl placed adds in the mag 16 or more times then claimed she was published that many times !
Photographer
faltered
Posts: 285
Los Angeles, California, US
Modelmayhem's tag line is also "where professional models meet model photographers" so we're all kind of participating in a fraud to that extent just by sake of posting in this forum.
One thing I will say about Vogue Italia and Photo Vogue is that they do publish in the actual print magazine some photos they license for photo vogue. I can absolutely 100% attest to that. not just the website, the actual print version of Vogue Italia.
There also is not a more important photo editor in the entire world of fashion photography than Alessia Glaviano that provides a pipeline for photographers to directly submit to her and she personally views every photo. There is nobody here that can submit to Teen Magazine, much less Vogue, and know for sure if your work is being viewed or just intercepted by an assistant to the assistant editor. I don't care how great of a photographer you think you are.
Vogue Italia has also commissioned four editorials and two ad campaigns from photographers they found through Vogue Italia. That's direct from Vogue Italias website. So yes there is a fine line when it comes to claiming publishing but how do you know for a fact when someone says they were published in Vogue Italia that they were only published on the website? Have you confirmed with them that they were not also published in the print version? Or are you just making that assumption because you would prefer people fail?
__one last thing I will edit in. There is a lot of mention of the "contest" there is no contest. There are no prizes and there is no voting. It's simply a submission pipeline to Vogue Italia.
Photographer
anothercrush
Posts: 2
Manila, National Capital Region, Philippines
faltered wrote:
Modelmayhem's tag line is also "where professional models meet model photographers" so we're all kind of participating in a fraud to that extent just by sake of posting in this forum.
One thing I will say about Vogue Italia and Photo Vogue is that they do publish in the actual print magazine some photos they license for photo vogue. I can absolutely 100% attest to that. not just the website, the actual print version of Vogue Italia.
There also is not a more important photo editor in the entire world of fashion photography than Alessia Glaviano that provides a pipeline for photographers to directly submit to her and she personally views every photo. There is nobody here that can submit to Teen Magazine, much less Vogue, and know for sure if your work is being viewed or just intercepted by an assistant to the assistant editor. I don't care how great of a photographer you think you are.
Vogue Italia has also commissioned four editorials and two ad campaigns from photographers they found through Vogue Italia. That's direct from Vogue Italias website. So yes there is a fine line when it comes to claiming publishing but how do you know for a fact when someone says they were published in Vogue Italia that they were only published on the website? Have you confirmed with them that they were not also published in the print version? Or are you just making that assumption because you would prefer people fail?
__one last thing I will edit in. There is a lot of mention of the "contest" there is no contest. There are no prizes and there is no voting. It's simply a submission pipeline to Vogue Italia. THIS.
Model
Jessica Vaugn
Posts: 7328
Los Angeles, California, US
What a surprise, people in this industry misleading others!
SOOOO many liars, scammers, people exaggerating, using things out of context.
If you can't show it- you shouldn't claim it! (If you are embarrassed to show it for fear of people minimizing it upon sight- you're not crediting yourself in the honest way).
These people are transparent to the educated and experienced photo community and busy scamming those unfortunate folks who just don't know a fake and a phony when they see one.
Work for what you want and you can sleep knowing you are what you say you are with no worry of exposure.
Photographer
Dan OMell
Posts: 1415
Charlotte, North Carolina, US
I realize that http://www.vogue.it/en/photovogue PhotoVogue Italy Online is not even a zillionth part of Vogue Italy by value, but it's how they are called themselves, PhotoVogue Italy. And it's so great that very often Alessia Glaviano herself, the Photo Editor of Vogue, selects the photos submitted to PhotoVogue Online by the inspiring photographers... FOR FREE!!! (how many photo organizations with a zillionth part of PhotoVogue Italy's value invite you, photographers, to participate in their "competitions" paying $10-15 per image?) Not to mention the fact that some people just don't work and don't plan to work, even for Vogue... Of course, if some of them claims that they are published in the printed version of the "big" Vogue is outrageous lie that is easily verifiable.
Model
D M M
Posts: 7910
Boston, Massachusetts, US
Models do this too, of course. It irks me. Nothing is more obnoxious. And, I refuse to work with a photographer who misleads in that way. Honestly, the ones falsely claiming having published for major fashion magazines are usually especially terrible photographers, anyway.
Photographer
Neil Snape
Posts: 9474
Paris, Île-de-France, France
faltered wrote:
Modelmayhem's tag line is also "where professional models meet model photographers" so we're all kind of participating in a fraud to that extent just by sake of posting in this forum.
One thing I will say about Vogue Italia and Photo Vogue is that they do publish in the actual print magazine some photos they license for photo vogue. I can absolutely 100% attest to that. not just the website, the actual print version of Vogue Italia.
There also is not a more important photo editor in the entire world of fashion photography than Alessia Glaviano that provides a pipeline for photographers to directly submit to her and she personally views every photo. There is nobody here that can submit to Teen Magazine, much less Vogue, and know for sure if your work is being viewed or just intercepted by an assistant to the assistant editor. I don't care how great of a photographer you think you are.
Vogue Italia has also commissioned four editorials and two ad campaigns from photographers they found through Vogue Italia. That's direct from Vogue Italias website. So yes there is a fine line when it comes to claiming publishing but how do you know for a fact when someone says they were published in Vogue Italia that they were only published on the website? Have you confirmed with them that they were not also published in the print version? Or are you just making that assumption because you would prefer people fail?
__one last thing I will edit in. There is a lot of mention of the "contest" there is no contest. There are no prizes and there is no voting. It's simply a submission pipeline to Vogue Italia. Not sure who the you is that you're referring to.
The thread is about exactly what was posted, not about the merits or advantages /disadvantages of submitting to VI online.
It is a gallery , and a good one, with many very fine images. Each day , one pictures is selected and chosen as the picture of the day. Eventually the daily picture collection will be published.
The did ask some people to shoot for the fashion night , Micheal Epps a friend of mine in NY one of the participants. Regardless of what went on that too is a good thing.
I still see however people on FB posting "I am working with VI". Submitting images to an online gallery of pictures is not being published, commissioned, or anything else other than have submitted images that were accepted to be kept on display in that gallery.
You probably didn't take the time to read through all the posts, with good reason, but more than once I posted , others too, it is a good thing to participate in the online gallery.
Photographer
Robert Sawin
Posts: 6740
Carlsbad, California, US
as I live in this world more and more I find that the people who lie to get ahead do so. simple fact is no one cares about the work they do sept for the prestige.
Model
Jessica Vaugn
Posts: 7328
Los Angeles, California, US
Neil Snape wrote:
I still see however people on FB posting "I am working with VI". Submitting images to an online gallery of pictures is not being published, commissioned, or anything else other than have submitted images that were accepted to be kept on display in that gallery.
. This is the glamour equivalent of saying because you did Maxim Hometown hotties that you are now a published Maxim model...
Yeah- all the same bullshit packaged differently by different faces.
Photographer
Julian W I L D E
Posts: 1831
Portland, Oregon, US
It's hard to be fooled by this sort of thing, unless you WANT to be fooled.
;-)
Model
Jessica Vaugn
Posts: 7328
Los Angeles, California, US
D M M wrote:
Models do this too, of course. It irks me. Nothing is more obnoxious. And, I refuse to work with a photographer who misleads in that way. Honestly, the ones falsely claiming having published for major fashion magazines are usually especially terrible photographers, anyway. I agree. I will write off a photographer for this sort of presentation, even if I never tell him why. I simply think there should be natural consequences (no matter hoe insignificant) for lies and falsehoods since so often, there is not.
Model
Jessica Vaugn
Posts: 7328
Los Angeles, California, US
Julian W I L D E wrote:
It's hard to be fooled by this sort of thing, unless you WANT to be fooled.
;-) I'm sure you have a nice family member who isn't savvy to this sort of thing and you wouldn't want them to hire someone who advertised based on falsehoods...
People new to the industry are looking for their easiest, cheapest, most direct association to the larger payoff they desire (in this case possibly being in Vogue or simply working with people they find of high esteem with a growing credit list). I think that is why Neil brought up the misleading potential clients they are attempting to sway with false credits.
We know people use other people's pictures to get hired by unknowing people on the net. There are lots of people who misuse credits with the same intent.
Photographer
Robert Sawin
Posts: 6740
Carlsbad, California, US
Jessica Vaugn wrote:
This is the glamour equivalent of saying because you did Maxim Hometown hotties that you are now a published Maxim model...
Yeah- all the same bullshit packaged differently by different faces. You know when I was casting for one of my short films one of the actors acted all that and refused to work with me on the film cause he had a 2 sec role on Mr and ms smith. lol
Model
Jessica Vaugn
Posts: 7328
Los Angeles, California, US
Robert Sawin wrote:
You know when I was casting for one of my short films one of the actors acted all that and refused to work with me on the film cause he had a 2 sec role on Mr and ms smith. lol Hollywood lets people think all sorts of things about themselves based on things that do not matter- like that.
That was probably his misguided way of telling you he was only pursuing movies of a larger caliber than what you were producing because those movies line up with his objectives.
Photographer
Robert Sawin
Posts: 6740
Carlsbad, California, US
Jessica Vaugn wrote:
Hollywood lets people think all sorts of things about themselves based on things that do not matter- like that.
That was probably his misguided way of telling you he was only pursuing movies of a larger caliber than what you were producing because those movies line up with his objectives. I can under stand if he said it that way but he was kinda big about it. Which is one of the reasons why I put more time into photography. because there is less talk and more turn around time.
Photographer
MKPhoto
Posts: 5665
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
I think it is perfectly OK to say: "My image won picture of the day in Vogue Italia's on website for new photographers, PhotoVogue", or "My image was published on-line in Vogue's Italia fashion website 'Photovogue'". Or "I submitted image to Vogue Italia's Photovogue, it has been approved and published by their editorial staff for publication on their website".
This is not misleading, IMO. If take a shot, submit it do my daily newspaper and it shows under "reader' submissions" I am perfectly fine to say "My image was published on-line in my daily newspaper's blog "reader's submission".
Not using word "posted", because they had to approve it and they got copyright/usage considerations.
Photographer
Benjamin Kanarek
Posts: 3092
Paris, Île-de-France, France
...I did a few times... ;-)
Happy Holidays Neil
Photographer
Neil Snape
Posts: 9474
Paris, Île-de-France, France
Benjamin Kanarek wrote:
...I did a few times... ;-)
Happy Holidays Neil Same, you did actually work for Vogue and were published. There are a lot of people sending their pix up to Vogue Italia's Photo gallery , saying they are published likes it's a big deal.
Some are even saying that they work with VI , that one is grotesque.
It's a good place to send images up though, and each day one is chosen for an eventual gallery collection. Then the said images will really be published....
Photographer
SKITA Studios
Posts: 1572
Boston, Massachusetts, US
Benjamin Kanarek wrote:
a girl who was claiming emphatically that she just worked with me for BAZAAR etc, well what did I do,I turned to her and said "I overheard you just worked for BAZAAR! Wow that's great, congratulations!" I turned back and thought, wow that must have made her day. But I have no recollection of ever working with her. lol...she probably thought you were some random guy trying to pick her up since she has no idea what you look like ;-)
IMHO, Vogue Italia is taking the Maxim tactic....like "Maxim's Hometown Hotties" which I've seen people claim "published in Maxim" for ;-)
It's social network fun, but they should say you're required to say it's for the POTD or something if you reference it.
I still like your funny story of how you got published because the ex-wife hated the ex-husband :-)
Photographer
NIMATARADJI photography
Posts: 898
Chicago, Illinois, US
All My Life, I Always Wanted To Be Somebody. Now I See That I Should Have Been More Specific.
Photographer
Neil Snape
Posts: 9474
Paris, Île-de-France, France
Olivia Clemens wrote:
A photo that I'm in became photo of the day on the Vogue Italia website, and underneath the picture in my portfolio, I say just that: "photo of the day on the Vogue Italia site." Obviously, that's not the same as being published in the magazine. A photographer friend of mine DID have an image published in the magazine through the site, however -- the photos of the day enter the running to be published in the magazine. So, if your photo was chosen as photo of the day, it's possible that it actually was published in Vogue Italia -- but obviously not as an editorial spread, more as a feature at the end of the magazine to encourage people to visit the website. (Though the photographer I am talking about was later contacted by them to do an editorial spread. So you never know...) Exactly why it's a good thing to post.
It's not clear yet where or when the pictures , the dailies will be published. It's their thing, they can do with it what they want, as they see fit.
Until it's printed for me it's not published.
If you look up a couple posts I said my friend Michael Epps shot for the fashion walk, as did many others. I have no problems with Vogue's intentions.
The way you word it is perfectly fine, the way it should be . I too would be happy if I had a picture of the day , more on VI than MM, but that is just me.
Yet I would be the last person to say I worked for VI. Unless I actually had commissioned images I'm not even sure I'd want to say published without saying in their photo gallery.
So did the photographer you cited actually produce a series coming out in VI?
Photographer
Neil Snape
Posts: 9474
Paris, Île-de-France, France
NIMATARADJI photography wrote:
All My Life, I Always Wanted To Be Somebody. Now I See That I Should Have Been More Specific. Ah everyone is a somebody at least once.
I worked with Vogue, shot watches, more than one series. That is what is truly published, and actually paid for, no less.
Yet I'm still happy to send up some random images to VI. There are some really good images chosen and some really bad ones too. I doubt they ever thought it would be so successful. Then again everyone who's anyone wants to say they worked for VI.......
Photographer
WIP
Posts: 15973
Cheltenham, England, United Kingdom
D M M wrote:
Models do this too, of course. I do know of a model who's turned down Vogue because they pay so badly.
Not everyone wants to be in Vogue
Photographer
Benjamin Kanarek
Posts: 3092
Paris, Île-de-France, France
SKITA Studios wrote:
lol...she probably thought you were some random guy trying to pick her up since she has no idea what you look like ;-)
IMHO, Vogue Italia is taking the Maxim tactic....like "Maxim's Hometown Hotties" which I've seen people claim "published in Maxim" for ;-)
It's social network fun, but they should say you're required to say it's for the POTD or something if you reference it.
I still like your funny story of how you got published because the ex-wife hated the ex-husband :-) Yeah, the wife of Pepponi was the Editor of Cosmopolitan Italy.
Photographer
Benjamin Kanarek
Posts: 3092
Paris, Île-de-France, France
c_h_r_i_s wrote:
I do know of a model who's turned down Vogue because they pay so badly.
Not everyone wants to be in Vogue I M P O S S I B L E ! ! !
None of the magazines pay well and the better they are the less they pay...It isn't for the money but the exposure that gets you the Huge Ad Campaigns...Refused to work for VOGUE???!!!! I doubt it! SHE WAS A LIAR!!!!!! Now that is a HUGE Tale if I ever heard one.
I know people who would pay to shoot for any of the VOGUES or BAZAARS around the world.
No agency in their right mind would say no to shoot in VOGUE!
Photographer
Benjamin Kanarek
Posts: 3092
Paris, Île-de-France, France
I know people who would pay to shoot for any of the VOGUES or BAZAARS around the world.
Photographer
WIP
Posts: 15973
Cheltenham, England, United Kingdom
Benjamin Kanarek wrote:
I M P O S S I B L E ! ! !
None of the magazines pay well and the better they are the less they pay...It isn't for the money but the exposure that gets you the Huge Ad Campaigns...Refused to work for VOGUE???!!!! I doubt it! SHE WAS A LIAR!!!!!! Now that is a HUGE Tale if I ever heard one.
I know people who would pay to shoot for any of the VOGUES or BAZAARS around the world.
No agency in their right mind would say no to shoot in VOGUE! She's my ex g'friend daughter. She was signed to one of the better known UK model agencys.
Why do people think that the only publications of any sorts are VOGUE or BAZAAR.
I'd like to shoot for Vogue patterns book/catlouge, regular work thou' the year.
Photographer
Jason Bassett
Posts: 2358
Hollywood, Florida, US
I have a photo in there. I always say I was "featured on Vogue Italia's website". I wouldn't dare call it anything else. Technically it's published, but I don't count anything I don't have physically when it comes to published work/tearsheets. At least not yet. Now, I still am proud and do share the photo. Why not? http://www.vogue.it/en/photovogue/Portf … ac7e/Image I didn't work for Vogue. I worked for myself, and my team and luckily was featured for more promo. It means I am doing something right (with respects to my personal feeling of my work).
Photographer
Jason Bassett
Posts: 2358
Hollywood, Florida, US
Stefano Brunesci wrote:
It's a little more prestigious than MM's POTD - lol!
Of course, it's not something to put in a resume and it's certainly not the same as being published in the print version of Vogue Italia, but the 'featured' pictures are indeed selected by Vogue Italia employees and they reject a hell of a lot more photos than they feature.
Personally, I'm always quite pleased when one of my photos is featured and it's definitely worth mentioning on Facebook - although I would never claim it as 'being published' by or 'working for' Vogue.
Just my $0.02
Ciao
Stefano
www.stefanobrunesci.com +100
Photographer
J E W E T T
Posts: 2545
al-Marsā, Tunis, Tunisia
Bump because there are a lot of guys saying they worked for Vogue Italia out there right now. Unbelievable.
It's kinda like saying you were a model for 12 news, when you were actually in a crowd they panned at a sporting event.
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