Forums > Model Colloquy > Nude shoots of young teenage girls?

Photographer

Wysiwyg Photography

Posts: 6326

Salt Lake City, Utah, US

Bizou Photography wrote:

No there wasn't a link. There's NO chance she was 18.

There was also no hair and makeup etc. It was just a topless young teen pretty much in black and white.

Then he had another pic of a teen where the girl is naked top to bottom. I wonder how the rest of the photoshoot looked?

you are absolutely and positively 100% wrong with this statement..

And I will tell you why..

I just shot a wedding not to long ago and I asked for the Maid of Honor to stand next to the Bride... She said "I'm standing right here"... I looked at her and and started a conversation with her as we were shooting and asked what school she went to... WELL.. she was graduated for almost 5 years.. she was fuckin' 23 years old and she looked like she was 14.. NO JOKE.

You know nothing until you see ID... Just saying.

Oct 25 11 10:41 pm Link

Model

Katharina_Stavrinidis

Posts: 255

Noordwijk, Zuid-Holland, Netherlands

I maybe sound hard right now, but I think the only creepy no good on Model Mayhem is Bizou Photography himself.
I will tell you why.

1. The profile of Bizou Photography:
'After speaking to some models and hearing stories, let me be clear that I am not a 'nude photographer' or 'predator photographer' as in I don't have some plan to try to eventually get models to pose nude or take advantage of you.'
And
'I'm 35, clean cut, married, and not a perv or 'weird' sort of guy.'
And
'I don't physically touch models or ever imply anything or say suggestive things.'

Why do you say that kind of thinks on your profile?
What you discribe should be so logical and normal that there shouldn't be any need to say something like that.
For example, if someone says the whole time 'I am not a liar, I am really honest, you should trust me'.
What would a normal person think than? That you are not te be trusted at all!
Because if you where, you wouldn't say someting like that.
This is the same thing in my opinion.


2. In this discussion Bizou Photography says:
'No there wasn't a link. There's NO chance she was 18.'
And
'You certainly look your age.
I think I know a budding young teen when I see one.'

You can never know that!
You can only know that if you have a sixth sense or you see that often naked budding young teens that you recognize them any moment.
If the last thing is the case than...

Oct 26 11 02:14 am Link

Model

Angela G

Posts: 376

Los Angeles, California, US

Bizou Photography wrote:
Hi!

I was clicking around and I found a photographers profile who only does TFP work and I noticed he has mostly teenagers in his profiles. Younger teens from the look of it.. and a LOT of them. It's pretty much his whole profile. He also has some nude shots where the girls look to be as young as 13-14. Seriously one of the girls looked like she was 'budding'.

I'm curious as to what is appropriate in the 'model world' as to what is appropriate as far as nudity and age goes because I have to say I'm not a prude or anything.. but there's eventually always a line that determines x from y.

I need someone to tell me what is acceptable and what is not as far as younger models go and nudity. Please define some rules of what is appropriate.

Sounds like someone is jealous.

Oct 26 11 02:53 am Link

Model

Angela G

Posts: 376

Los Angeles, California, US

Bizou Photography wrote:
No I don't want to start any trouble. Lets say I'm almost certain our police would start an investigation though. We have a lot of bored police in our province with a lot of funding and a lot of investigative units. I'd prefer not to start trouble if there is none. It's not a nice thing to do.

And what are you so defensive for btw? If you like to do 'implied' photos of 'underage' girls, then just say it and call it your niche.

Gee all this time I thought I wasn't a prude and very liberal and artsy. I guess I'm wrong.

Personally I don't want to shoot nudes because I want to get the models pics into print media and be more commercial and mainstream. My long term goals don't include nude pics. Implied is different if the model has very good skin and genetics to do implied.

But I don't have an actual problem with nudes or even implied at all. When we're talking about budding teens though.. wow. That's a bit much.

Sounds like someone is trying to create a diversion to take the attention off themselves.

Oct 26 11 03:05 am Link

Photographer

Art of the nude

Posts: 11892

Olivet, Michigan, US

Bizou Photography wrote:
Hi!

I was clicking around and I found a photographers profile who only does TFP work and I noticed he has mostly teenagers in his profiles. Younger teens from the look of it.. and a LOT of them. It's pretty much his whole profile. He also has some nude shots where the girls look to be as young as 13-14. Seriously one of the girls looked like she was 'budding'.

I'm curious as to what is appropriate in the 'model world' as to what is appropriate as far as nudity and age goes because I have to say I'm not a prude or anything.. but there's eventually always a line that determines x from y.

I need someone to tell me what is acceptable and what is not as far as younger models go and nudity. Please define some rules of what is appropriate.

In most cases, there are no rules about how old the models "appear to be."

Actual age is a more complicated question.

Oct 26 11 03:14 am Link

Photographer

Art of the nude

Posts: 11892

Olivet, Michigan, US

Katharina_Stavrinidis wrote:
I maybe sound hard right now, but I think the only creepy no good on Model Mayhem is Bizou Photography himself.

No comment on Bizou, but there are certainly OTHER "creepy no good" types on MM, as there are anywhere.

Oct 26 11 08:53 am Link

Photographer

EdBPhotography

Posts: 7679

Torrance, California, US

JeanDphoto wrote:
-I'm 35, clean cut, married, and not a perv or 'weird' sort of guy.
-For fun I like to go out to restaurants and sit in a booth for 2 hours. Casino is nice too.
-I love the beach and the hot Dominican Republic sun!
-I don't really do drugs and I quit smoking cigarettes 2 years ago.
-I don't physically touch models or ever imply anything or say suggestive things.
-I'm not interested in nude shots at this time.
-However, if your over 18 and your body skin is your best asset (creamy, soft 1 tone skin), it might be a good idea to do an implied artistic shot. Everyone loves them and they generate a lot of comments. Some people are almost meant to do implied because that's where they happen to look best.


The answer lies within...
You like them creamy and soft

Model Mayhem is NOT a dating site!



wink

Oct 26 11 09:13 am Link

Photographer

Lifestyle_Images

Posts: 3998

Albuquerque, New Mexico, US

EdBPhotography wrote:
Model Mayhem is NOT a dating site!



wink

BWAHAHAHAHAAH!  I just spilled coffee all over my self!  Thanks for the best laugh of my day!

Oct 26 11 09:16 am Link

Photographer

William Kious

Posts: 8841

Delphos, Ohio, US

You say that you're this:

JeanDphoto wrote:
-I'm 35, clean cut, married, and not a perv or 'weird' sort of guy.

But then you say this:

JeanDphoto wrote:
like them creamy and soft

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/2958/orly4ec2.jpg

Oct 26 11 09:43 am Link

Photographer

William Kious

Posts: 8841

Delphos, Ohio, US

M-O Dubois wrote:

Am I the only one who gets a wicked uncomfortable vibe from the OP being so adamant they're underrage, spending so much time scrutinizing their body parts and insisting about the whole thing so much ? The whole "budding" thing (and him saying he knows it when he sees it) only adds to the creepalicious factor, to me. Apologies, OP, just the way it all comes across from where I sit. I'm afraid to ask what he means by "budding", especially between quotations marks.

yikes

You're not the only one...

Oct 26 11 09:46 am Link

Photographer

Bizou Photography

Posts: 163

Mississauga, Ontario, Canada

Lol do you think I didn't get PM's of stories from models and photographers from similar stories?

In art there is always a line that people who get jaded start to ignore what is different between right and wrong.

If adults think it's ok to bring young teens alone and try to get them to take their clothes off then you guys can keep doing it. I don't want to be associated with these people at all.

They make promises, trap them in a corner (literally), give them orders for an hour or two (directing the poses), then get them to take off their clothes. Young teens. This involves victimizing someone if you are partaking in this. Now if the girl is older, then who cares, you can beg her to take off her clothes because she's of age.

"please please please.. ok I'll pay you more! just a little.. come on!" hehhe go to it if she's of age.

It makes sense why everyone wants to bring an escort. Now I see the real reason at first I couldn't figure it out. You should hear some of the model stories. Some models don't care and are free as birds, others have felt violated. And then there's that model that said she had an experience that she didn't want to 'relive'.

That's why I changed my profile to make it absolutely clear that I don't want to be associate with these photographers. I changed it to include a bit about myself so people don't think I was some 'weird' guy or predator.

I have a friend who has a t-shirt business who wants all her t-shirts modeled for an online store. She has the store up and shirts, but needs them to be modeled for the webstore.

I have another friend writing articles from an ethnic magazine who would like some editorial pictures (husband and wife type pics like getting home late and eating out sort of shots).

I'm trying to get my pics and the model into PRINT and start a business for myself doing weddings full time. That's the goal for me. I'm not afraid of skin at all, but gee I'm not going to invite some young teen over and get her to take off all her clothes. Do you know how serious of an offense that is in my country? That's a major no no where I live.

That's why I don't want to tell anyone the profile because he *can* get in serious trouble in my country. Even if she was of age and I'm wrong our over funded police will torment him just for fun and I don't want to put that on him. My wife and brother agree she looks 13ish and still budding. But who knows maybe we're all wrong. I say there's no chance she's 18 but I could be wrong.

Keep saying that I'm the real bad guy it doesn't matter to me.

I know my goals, the models I'm interested know my goals, and I want to project a 'safe' vibe for the models and have decided that my wife will now be part of all the shoots doing touch-ups and adjusting lights. I didn't want to burden her but she'll have to part of the team.

(obviously models involve skin and often implied are the best shots for many models of age. Models are hot and look good and I want to make them as hot as possible via our friends Adobe.. and oh yeah the guys and girls who do nudes try using some ice cubes it supposedly works)

Oct 26 11 11:25 am Link

Photographer

Cherrystone

Posts: 36720

Columbus, Ohio, US

Bizou Photography wrote:
Lol do you think I didn't get PM's of stories from models and photographers from similar stories?

In art there is always a line that people who get jaded start to ignore what is different between right and wrong.

If adults think it's ok to bring young teens alone and try to get them to take their clothes off then you guys can keep doing it. I don't want to be associated with these people at all.

They make promises, trap them in a corner (literally), give them orders for an hour or two (directing the poses), then get them to take off their clothes. Young teens. This involves victimizing someone if you are partaking in this. Now if the girl is older, then who cares, you can beg her to take off her clothes because she's of age.

"please please please.. ok I'll pay you more! just a little.. come on!" hehhe go to it if she's of age.

It makes sense why everyone wants to bring an escort. Now I see the real reason at first I couldn't figure it out. You should hear some of the model stories. Some models don't care and are free as birds, others have felt violated. And then there's that model that said she had an experience that she didn't want to 'relive'.

That's why I changed my profile to make it absolutely clear that I don't want to be associate with these photographers. I changed it to include a bit about myself so people don't think I was some 'weird' guy or predator.

I have a friend who has a t-shirt business who wants all her t-shirts modeled for an online store. She has the store up and shirts, but needs them to be modeled for the webstore.

I have another friend writing articles from an ethnic magazine who would like some editorial pictures (husband and wife type pics like getting home late and eating out sort of shots).

I'm trying to get my pics and the model into PRINT and start a business for myself doing weddings full time. That's the goal for me. I'm not afraid of skin at all, but gee I'm not going to invite some young teen over and get her to take off all her clothes. Do you know how serious of an offense that is in my country? That's a major no no where I live.

That's why I don't want to tell anyone the profile because he *can* get in serious trouble in my country. Even if she was of age and I'm wrong our over funded police will torment him just for fun and I don't want to put that on him. My wife and brother agree she looks 13ish and still budding. But who knows maybe we're all wrong. I say there's no chance she's 18 but I could be wrong.

Keep saying that I'm the real bad guy it doesn't matter to me.

I know my goals, the models I'm interested know my goals, and I want to project a 'safe' vibe for the models and have decided that my wife will now be part of all the shoots doing touch-ups and adjusting lights. I didn't want to burden her but she'll have to part of the team.

(obviously models involve skin and often implied are the best shots for many models of age. Models are hot and look good and I want to make them as hot as possible via our friends Adobe.. and oh yeah the guys and girls who do nudes try using some ice cubes it supposedly works)

Humor me.....tell me how old this "budding teen" was when the image was shot. She actually looks a little older than she really was.
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m213 … 30-032.jpg

You've been on this site for a week or less? Might be a good idea to take the cotton out of your ears, and put it in your mouth for awhile?

Oct 26 11 11:36 am Link

Photographer

salvatori.

Posts: 3836

Bellefonte, Pennsylvania, US

To the OP:

So let me get this straight...

Models who are underage and are supposedly coerced into taking their clothes off for sleazy 'togs' as you call them... confide in 'you' with their stories of lurid woe?

Quote: 'If adults think it's ok to bring young teens alone...' Still trying to figure out how someone can bring someone and still be alone... (or is this like a 'jumbo-shrimp' kind of thing...)

'They make promises, trap them in a corner (literally), give them orders for an hour or two (directing the poses), then get them to take off their clothes. Young teens. This involves victimizing someone if you are partaking in this. Now if the girl is older, then who cares, you can beg her to take off her clothes because she's of age.' - if you are aware of this behavior and haven't called the police, aren't you just getting your rocks off instead of 'preventing further destruction!' ???

'the guys and girls who do nudes try using some ice cubes it supposedly works' - they can't do that. It would ruin their 'soft and creamy' complexion.

I am not sure what planet you live on, but there is more gossip, fear-mongering and just plain goofy shit in your 'contributions' to this thread than there are in all the sewing circles in the world.

I guess I should thank you. I needed a reason to have a few extra beers today and you have given me that reason... (many times over).

Oct 26 11 11:36 am Link

Photographer

salvatori.

Posts: 3836

Bellefonte, Pennsylvania, US

And to add insult to injury... this 'girl' in my portfolio is a 24 year old WOMAN:

http://www.modelmayhem.com/portfolio/pi … 5#25534025

http://www.modelmayhem.com/portfolio/pi … 3#25529933

Or maybe not... she could have been crafty with scissors, crazy glue and a laminating machine the days I worked with her.

Funny, her ID looked real...

Oct 26 11 11:45 am Link

Photographer

JDM CREATIVE

Posts: 14

Los Angeles, California, US

to the OP, will you please just stop with the young girls stuff, and don't use the word "creamy" ever again.

Bizou Photography wrote:
I'm looking at girls in the late teens and some look older than what they claim. Also, some pics look like they were taken when they were 15 (no sag, really thick hair, creamy skin, etc).

Are the pics in their portfolios accurate to what I would get? I could swear some pics the girls look thin, and other pics the girls look heavier and older.

http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?threa … st16214257

Oct 26 11 11:59 am Link

Photographer

Cherrystone

Posts: 36720

Columbus, Ohio, US

JSL wrote:
Funny, her ID looked real...

Why, anyone can tell that's a "budding" teen. Right? wink

Oct 26 11 12:02 pm Link

Photographer

Gasoline Photography

Posts: 1620

Essen, North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany

William Kious wrote:
You say that you're this:

JeanDphoto wrote:
-I'm 35, clean cut, married, and not a perv or 'weird' sort of guy.

But then you say this:


http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/2958/orly4ec2.jpg

I believe he was quoting OP's profile.

Oct 26 11 12:03 pm Link

Photographer

AMCphotography2

Posts: 471

Los Angeles, California, US

This thread has gotten funnier.

Oct 26 11 12:08 pm Link

Photographer

AMCphotography2

Posts: 471

Los Angeles, California, US

This thread has gotten funnier.

Oct 26 11 12:08 pm Link

Photographer

C Mirene

Posts: 1610

Toledo, Ohio, US

"Budding?"

"Jumbo shrimp", I get - but not "budding"...  That just ain't right, IMO.

Oct 26 11 12:09 pm Link

Photographer

salvatori.

Posts: 3836

Bellefonte, Pennsylvania, US

Cherrystone wrote:

Why, anyone can tell that's a "budding" teen. Right? wink

In my best Beavis and Butthead...

"he said 'budding...' heh, heh...

Oct 26 11 12:12 pm Link

Photographer

MLRPhoto

Posts: 5753

Olivet, Michigan, US

Bizou Photography wrote:
That's why I don't want to tell anyone the profile because he *can* get in serious trouble in my country. Even if she was of age and I'm wrong our over funded police will torment him just for fun and I don't want to put that on him. My wife and brother agree she looks 13ish and still budding. But who knows maybe we're all wrong. I say there's no chance she's 18 but I could be wrong.

So, either he ISN'T a bad guy, and you're just projecting, or

He IS a bad guy and you're protecting him.

Oct 26 11 12:13 pm Link

Photographer

salvatori.

Posts: 3836

Bellefonte, Pennsylvania, US

C Mirenegade wrote:
"Budding?"

"Jumbo shrimp", I get - but not "budding"...  That just ain't right, IMO.

I think 'budding' has the opportunity to multitask. It appears in the OP's replies and I mean, a shrimp has to be a 'budding shrimp' in order to become 'jumbo...'

And to make it clear, I am NOT a oceanographer, but I eat at Long John Silver's a lot... wink

Oct 26 11 12:14 pm Link

Photographer

AMCphotography2

Posts: 471

Los Angeles, California, US

To the OP, you've also failed to learn that your whole 'about me' section is creepy and weird. Why would models automatically assume you're going to try to shoot them nude? They have to be asked first. I haven't had any models show up and drop trou unless it was discussed prior to them showing up...

Oct 26 11 12:15 pm Link

Photographer

salvatori.

Posts: 3836

Bellefonte, Pennsylvania, US

AMCphotography wrote:
To the OP, you've also failed to learn that your whole 'about me' section is creepy and weird. Why would models automatically assume you're going to try to shoot them nude? They have to be asked first. I haven't had any models show up and drop trou unless it was discussed prior to them showing up...

Man, you're doing something wrong. I have models coming into my place all the time and they disrobe before I even have film in the camera. And these are models I didn't even hire. They just show up...

(don't wake me up yet...)

Oct 26 11 12:17 pm Link

Photographer

salvatori.

Posts: 3836

Bellefonte, Pennsylvania, US

MikeRobisonPhotos wrote:

So, either he ISN'T a bad guy, and you're just projecting, or

He IS a bad guy and you're protecting him.

There is NO WAY this logical thinking will be understood by the OP.

Oct 26 11 12:19 pm Link

Photographer

RGKBoston

Posts: 3765

Salem, Massachusetts, US

Obligatory Chris Hansen gif....

http://edge.ebaumsworld.com/mediaFiles/picture/431147/755084.png

Oct 26 11 12:19 pm Link

Photographer

AMCphotography2

Posts: 471

Los Angeles, California, US

JSL wrote:
Man, you're doing something wrong. I have models coming into my place all the time and they disrobe before I even have film in the camera. And these are models I didn't even hire. They just show up...

(don't wake me up yet...)

HAHAHAHA!! I guess I'm still not amazing enough of a photographer for it to automatically happen for me :-P

Oct 26 11 12:23 pm Link

Photographer

Daeda1us

Posts: 1067

Little Rock, Arkansas, US

JSL wrote:

Man, you're doing something wrong. I have models coming into my place all the time and they disrobe before I even have film in the camera. And these are models I didn't even hire. They just show up...

(don't wake me up yet...)

LOL!  LOVE THIS!

Oct 26 11 12:29 pm Link

Photographer

Gems of Nature in N Atl

Posts: 1334

North Atlanta, Georgia, US

and i have a bridge for sale!

Oct 26 11 12:38 pm Link

Photographer

Daeda1us

Posts: 1067

Little Rock, Arkansas, US

OK, for the OP, take home message is:

The model's ACTUAL AGE is the only thing the Law and MM are worried about.  As long as there is not implied or explicit sexual behavior, MM is actually more strict than the Law.  You can not always tell by looking.  That is fact.

As an aside, Several have commented on your profile giving a "creepy vibe".  So many in fact, you may want to consider how you are coming across.  (however, you have 5 models interested in your upcoming shoot... so you may want to appeal to the age old adage, "If it is stupid and it works, it isnt stupid")

My $0.02.  YMMV

Oct 26 11 12:40 pm Link

Photographer

ANT II

Posts: 34

LA JOLLA, California, US

Personally if I see a naked photo of a girl who is really 18 but looks 12 I find it whack but thats my own choice. I mean at the same time I have seen runway shows where girls were actually 16 and 17 and their nips were showing through sheer garmets and I didn't care but maybe you or others would. My point is that we all look at things differently and thats a good thing for the most part. If someone on here is really breaking the law shooting underage girls naked/sexual manner, or whatever breaks the law, then all you can do is report them to the moderators... though I really have a feeling this person isn't that stupid but you never know wink

Oct 26 11 01:03 pm Link

Model

Melissa Boneau

Posts: 122

Burbank, California, US

Bizou Photography wrote:
Hi!

I was clicking around and I found a photographers profile who only does TFP work and I noticed he has mostly teenagers in his profiles. Younger teens from the look of it.. and a LOT of them. It's pretty much his whole profile. He also has some nude shots where the girls look to be as young as 13-14. Seriously one of the girls looked like she was 'budding'.

I'm curious as to what is appropriate in the 'model world' as to what is appropriate as far as nudity and age goes because I have to say I'm not a prude or anything.. but there's eventually always a line that determines x from y.

I need someone to tell me what is acceptable and what is not as far as younger models go and nudity. Please define some rules of what is appropriate.

OK THAT'S IT!  I'm not even gonna read the whole thread to make my comment as I can see, once again, the "cats are at it" on MM.  I hope the moderators shut you up.  There is nothing offensive about this OPs question.  I have been appalled at some of the images of children I have seen in portfolios, too.  Frankly, I don't care what the authorities say, if I see inappropriate or distasteful images of children or anyone else I will not work with those responsible for the "art".  Whether a child has breasts or a woman has none has nothing to do with the innocence of the context of the artistic expression in the work.  If the photographer or the model has erotic or fetish genre checked off in their profile, then I assume they are probably doing anything and everything they want with models whether they share this work with the public or not.  If they have nothing but very experienced checked on their profiles but their images are of poor grade and their models look frightened and/or angry looking, I assume they have a good reason to look that way.  Our country and all this freedom of expression is a breeding ground for perverts but exploitation of women and children has been going on all over the world since the stone age.  Responsible adults are the only ones who can put a stop to it.  Irresponsible adults perpetuate the problem.  Regardless of where you stand with the issue of seeing images of "immature models" of any age, the right to discuss the subject without harassment is the policy of MM forums.

Personally, I'm not ignorant to the fact that there is a worldwide problem of child-pornography and human trafficking which includes young men who are vulnerable to these predators.  More education and resources should be available to people desperate enough to fall into this degrading circumstance.  It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that one of the ways this "flesh" product is moved in that business is under the guise of legitimate photography and modeling businesses.  Anyone who denys this is subject to suspicion of conspiracy to facilitate cases of missing persons, kidnapping, hostages, rape, murder, etc.  I think the authorities are not doing their job which is to make you buggers run and hide.  Let the courts decide if it's right or wrong, but to flaunt this particular brand of adult entertainment is just asking for the wrong attention.  On the artistic side, if I don't like the way an artist expresses themselves, I don't give them my attention.  If I believe someone may be harmed by their artistic expression then it becomes another matter of social responsibility.  For instance, if a model who can pass for an underage model and then also allows herself or himself to be artistically represented in sexually implied and other inappropriate behavior in works of art, then both the model and the photographer are guilty of child pornography in my book.  It should not be up to the audience or the courts to decide or determine that the model is of appropriate age if they are not represented that way in the image.  It's the statement of the work that counts, not the actual legality of producing it.  That would be like saying it's okay to portray racial and ethnic hatred because the models where in costume.  Wrong.  Don't try it.  You will be accountable for the act not the manner in which the act was accomplished.

Oct 26 11 01:09 pm Link

Photographer

salvatori.

Posts: 3836

Bellefonte, Pennsylvania, US

Melissa Boneau wrote:
OK THAT'S IT!  I'm not even gonna read the whole thread to make my comment as I can see, once again, the "cats are at it" on MM.  I hope the moderators shut you up.  There is nothing offensive about this OPs question.  I have been appalled at some of the images of children I have seen in portfolios, too. 

you do report them as soon as you see them, don't you?

Frankly, I don't care what the authorities say, if I see inappropriate or distasteful images of children or anyone else I will not work with those responsible for the "art".  Whether a child has breasts or a woman has none has nothing to do with the innocence of the context of the artistic expression in the work.  If the photographer or the model has erotic or fetish genre checked off in their profile, then I assume they are probably doing anything and everything they want with models whether they share this work with the public or not.  If they have nothing but very experienced checked on their profiles but their images are of poor grade and their models look frightened and/or angry looking, I assume they have a good reason to look that way.  Our country and all this freedom of expression is a breeding ground for

closed minded thinking...

perverts but exploitation of women and children has been going on all over the world since the stone age.  Responsible adults are the only ones who can put a stop to it.  Irresponsible adults perpetuate the problem.

couldn't agree with you more here. Asking irresponsible adults to fix the problem would just be... (wait for it)... irresponsible

Regardless of where you stand with the issue of seeing images of "immature models" of any age, the right to discuss the subject without harassment is the policy of MM forums.

I thought that's what we were doing...

Personally, I'm not ignorant to the fact that there is a worldwide problem of child-pornography and human trafficking which includes young men who are vulnerable to these predators.  More education and resources should be available to people desperate enough to fall into this degrading circumstance.  It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that one of the ways this "flesh" product is moved in that business is under the guise of legitimate photography and modeling businesses.  Anyone who denys this is subject to suspicion of conspiracy to facilitate cases of missing persons, kidnapping, hostages, rape, murder, etc.  I think the authorities are not doing their job which is to make you buggers run and hide.  Let the courts decide if it's right or wrong, but to flaunt this particular brand of adult entertainment is just asking for the wrong attention.  On the artistic side, if I don't like the way an artist expresses themselves, I don't give them my attention.  If I believe someone may be harmed by their artistic expression then it becomes another matter of social responsibility.  For instance, if a model who can pass for an underage model and then also allows herself or himself to be artistically represented in sexually implied and other inappropriate behavior in works of art, then both the model and the photographer are guilty of child pornography in my book.  It should not be up to the audience or the courts to decide or determine that the model is of appropriate age if they are not represented that way in the image.  It's the statement of the work that counts, not the actual legality of producing it.  That would be like saying it's okay to portray racial and ethnic hatred because the models where in costume.  Wrong.  Don't try it.  You will be accountable for the act not the manner in which the act was accomplished.

If you would have read through the whole thread, you would have learned a couple of things about the 'cats at play here on MM.

But thank the Maker that we have white knights of all types to help cleanse this site of its demons.

And it is such a time saver when a person doesn't have to read everything 'cause they know it all at the word 'go.'

Oct 26 11 01:29 pm Link

Photographer

Light and Lens Studio

Posts: 1466

Sisters, Oregon, US

Daeda1us wrote:
As I am given to understand, there are valid exceptions to the 18+ rule for nudity.

However, as a personal choice I will not shoot nudes or even implied nudes or lingerie under 18.

Easier to avoid "Imperial entanglements" by never crossing that line, even for legitimate art.

My $0.02.  YMMV.

This pretty well says it as far as I'm concerned.  Avoiding "San Quentin Quail" is always good advice.

Oct 26 11 01:35 pm Link

Photographer

Bizou Photography

Posts: 163

Mississauga, Ontario, Canada

Cherrystone wrote:
You've been on this site for a week or less? Might be a good idea to take the cotton out of your ears, and put it in your mouth for awhile?

It's funny how my post touches a nerve with SOME people eh?

That pic looks like a girl who is in her 20's.

Oct 26 11 01:40 pm Link

Photographer

salvatori.

Posts: 3836

Bellefonte, Pennsylvania, US

Gems of Nature in N Atl wrote:
and i have a bridge for sale!

Trade you two nude models for it (legal age, ID provided...)

Oct 26 11 01:42 pm Link

Model

Lenore Nevermore

Posts: 161

Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

Having read this whole gory mess of a thread, I really can't help but pile on additional take home for the OP;

I see you took the creamy bit out of your profile, this is good. But really, that top part has got to go; I have never ever seen anything even close to a professional photographer with an "I'm not a creep!" disclaimer at the top. And taking good pictures should ALWAYS be the goal. I know you're not a professional, at least 50% of this site isn't (me included) but if you don't even try to act like you are you probably never will be.

Please stop using the word budding. Ever. Not even plants.

Being rude, short or condescending to people on forums, especially those with years of experience, 1000x your forum posts, and way better portfolios.... is only going to do you harm in the future. This is your first impression to a lot of people.

You did not come across well in this thread, or any thread I looked up of yours (which some models, like me, search when people ask about shooting). Or your profile.

I know that Bizou Photography is now forever cemented in MY brain as that guy that couldn't stop talking about creamy budding underage girls and feels the need to go "HEY I'M NOT CREEPY GUYS!"

I believe MM should force your first 90 or so forum posts to be in the CRITIQUE forum.... along the lines of "What can I work on? Be mean and honest". Or anywhere in the forums saying things like "Hi! How do I make friends and not offend?" or 'Who likes Lady Gaga?", "I need some advice please....."

You are at a point when you should act a little humbler. (9 pictures = no high horse)

I'm normally more of a lurker than a poster but I couldn't help this one, this thread is a freaking daytime drama.

All opinions are humble and this is mine.

Oct 26 11 01:42 pm Link

Photographer

salvatori.

Posts: 3836

Bellefonte, Pennsylvania, US

Bizou Photography wrote:
It's funny how my post touches a nerve with SOME people eh?

Trust me, it ain't yer post that touches a nerve. Seriously dude, trust me on this one...

Oct 26 11 01:43 pm Link

Photographer

Bizou Photography

Posts: 163

Mississauga, Ontario, Canada

Daeda1us wrote:
As an aside, Several have commented on your profile giving a "creepy vibe".

And several have sent me PM's agreeing. Both models and togs.

I'm not the one coming across as creepy trust me.

Oct 26 11 01:46 pm Link