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Policy for models who flake on you?
Photography InFocus wrote: Yeah. Not all "flake" excuses are created equal. Feb 08 12 09:10 am Link You know I rate this topic just as high as models putting topics on about escorts. Get over it!! As long as there's models there going to be no shows,and if the shoot was a TF big deal.If you call off on your day job to shoot well then that was your stupidity. Feb 08 12 09:52 am Link The last model to flake on me sent an email the morning of the shoot saying that he would meet me on location. I drove out to the location and waited four hours in the cold fall air before finally going home with the sniffles. When I went back to check my email he hadn't messaged me so I sent another email asking if he was alright. A few hours later the teen replied that his grandmother had fallen in the kitchen and was rushed to the hospital; he was the only one in the house so he rode in the ambulance with her. I kept check on his grandmother's status throughout the week and eventually she came home healthy and he rescheduled showing up on time. My second almost flake was a female model that was thirty minutes out of town. It was her friend's birthday the day before and she had stayed out all night. The model didn't have her own car so even though she was ready for the group shoot she had to wait for a friend to wake up and she ended up showing up on location over four hours late meaning we shot until dark but still got amazing group frames. My point is that if a model flakes, they probably have a reason no matter how big or small. I try not to hold it against them and attempt to reschedule if I'm not on a deadline. Feb 08 12 10:03 am Link Photography InFocus wrote: In my opinion: Feb 08 12 10:06 am Link Photography InFocus wrote: If they have a really good reason, I will usually give them another chance. If they just blow me off or are disrespectful, then no. And yes, I do tell my photographer buddies, and they tell me too Feb 08 12 10:10 am Link Simple: my policy is "Judge by the situation". You can't put everyone in the same basket... Depends on the excuse of the model (credibility), my loss (and the team's, if applicable), the relation I have with the model, and how much I want to work with that model in particular. So far, happened only twice: one I'll never work with anymore, the other had a broken ankle the night before, so I believe it was a good reason for not being at the shoot and having difficulty to communicate with me. Would try to shoot again with her. Feb 08 12 10:10 am Link I've just been dealing with two models who cancelled and I saw this thread. Here's the examples. #1 Just emailed me to cancel next Tuesday's session that we had scheduled because "it's valentines day and my boyfriend wants me to get naked for him." - so I get a good laugh and think, no doubt. This model is a woman with a substantial background in classical and modern dance, wonderfully in shape and good looking, enthusiastic and creative. These are her first nude modeling sessions. I just found out last session that what she had mentioned as "some yoga experience" actually meant that she was extraordinarily experienced and could go into some fairly extreme contortions happily, at length. So I'm figuring out if I can move things around to reschedule. #2 Just resurfaced, on the schedule that she said she'd be on a few weeks back when she had cancelled her first session on the day of the session because she had started her period. She's a first time nude model also. I rescheduled her and I'll bet this time she shows up on time and ready to go. I'm dealing with models who are young and sometimes with limited experience. I expect there to be scheduling problems sometimes. Some of the same people who have had problems at times have turned out to be my most available, loyal and committed models, who perform repeatedly in difficult circumstances and really put forth extraordinary efforts. I do a great deal of weeding out in the initial contacts and tend to be pretty happy with the performance overall. Feb 08 12 10:23 am Link ddtphoto wrote: Hmmm. I think you missed reading between the lines which was "Mommy needs some new free pictures". Feb 08 12 10:30 am Link Haven't ever had a complete no-show. I've had plenty who sound excited, say they are really wanting to shoot, and then disappear when I email to talk concepts. And I have plenty who say something came up and they can't shoot a day or so before. if they are a stranger I move on and forget they existed. if they are a repeat model I would try to set something else up if they asked. But I won't go out of my way to shoot them again. Feb 08 12 10:53 am Link I'm pretty new here so please forgive me if I post something that has been done to death. I was supposed to meet a potential model today for the first time. I like to do this when I can to establish chemistry, talk about ideas in person, and get a feel for what the model REALLY looks like. Today was the second attempt to meet this model. The first attempt, I waited at the appointed, public location for an hour past our meet time. No response to my messages until a couple of hours later. She asked to reschedule for another day (today). I agreed since I wasn't doing anything (or so I thought). Today, with my wife in the hospital with kidney failure, I still was going to make the meeting. I feel that, as a professional, I should do whatever I could to be there. Besides, my wife was having a procedure done and all I was going to be doing was sitting in her empty room, or at home. As I'm driving to the meeting place, I get an email saying that she has another "family drama" and she has to cancel. Will I give her another chance? I don't know. I am working on building my portfolio and gaining experience with many types of models. But I can't really say if its worth it or not. I guess I'll decide if and when she contacts me again. But you can be sure I'm not going to contact her. I won't chase a model. Feb 09 12 08:15 pm Link I'd never advocate stalking of course, but when I'm organising a shoot a lot of models ask me to follow their twitter/facebook/tumblr. And then, when the inevitable last minute cancellation/no-show happens, you'll also get their twitter/facebook/tumblr popping up in your feed to say what they're really up to. With a lot of people publishing their every movement somewhere publicly on the web it's quite easy to find out who is yanking your chain or not - whether you even want to or not. Feb 10 12 07:58 am Link No second chance. I personally treat flaking seriously because they can impact everybody's schedule. Sometimes REAL emergencies does happen but unfortunately there are too many bad applies that lie about the fact. The worst of the worst are ones that don't call or answer and decide to respond a few days later with fake or lame excuse. I do keep personal note of all bad models but I will list the worst ones. I had worked with many models (good and bad) over the years and so far I only listed two in my profile. Feb 11 12 09:04 pm Link Orca Bay Images wrote: +1. Well said. Mine is very similar to yours. Feb 11 12 09:06 pm Link Photography InFocus wrote: It depends on the term flake- some refer it as cancellations and others as no shows. I go with the policy of cancellation at least 24hrs before. I have rescheduled and had a great shoot so yes I can but a no show is the ultimate crime for me. How dare any person waste someone's time and energy. People like that are a disgrace to the industry and shouldn't belong here.Yes- they need to be exposed but you can't out someone here. Its the pain on dealing on these and other websites. Feb 12 12 07:59 am Link I've just started photographing models and I have a whole new appreciation for what some photographers have to put up with. I was due to do a morning shoot with one model and had contacted her the night before to make sure that she was good to go. I show up the following morning, she never shows up. I text and phone, no reply/answer. I was so disappointed. I will never attempt to work with her again. I have never and will never be a no-show (both as a model and a photog), the very worst would be if I couldn't make it, I'd contact them (and thank goodness that hasn't happened to date). It's just common courtesy. Feb 12 12 09:59 pm Link Photography InFocus wrote: Never... Feb 12 12 10:02 pm Link Every instance is of course different, but everyone who gives at least 24hrs. notice should be given a second chance. If you dont give proper notice, you should not expect a second chance. Feb 12 12 10:10 pm Link Looknsee Photography wrote: Under things to do, you left out: Feb 13 12 08:37 am Link Photography InFocus wrote: How do you give someone who doesn't really want to work with you a "second chance"? Feb 13 12 08:42 am Link Feb 13 12 08:43 am Link fickle business, you never know who is going to be famous in 3 years time. that's why. Some models I wasn't particularly impressed with, became famous actresses. Keeley Hawes is one. Great actress, but when she was 17/18 she was still becoming comfortable with the demands of modelling. Natalie Imbruglia at 25, wasn't a skilled model. Same with agencies. Be careful about burning bridges, models move from agent to agent as they improve their career. Feb 13 12 08:45 am Link ddtphoto wrote: lol. this is every other weekend for me with a "model". Sep 27 16 01:51 pm Link Sep 27 16 07:57 pm Link Very oddly, it's OK to make a judgment "not recommended" but not factual "did not show." The model didn't show--factual statement made on MM. BAD. I didn't want to say "not recommended." because that was not true. Years later, I still don't know how to tell the truth under the MM constraints. Of course, I could fail to disclose. But that violates my sense of ethics. So I've decided that since people can't handle the truth, I should just dispense with ethics! I have consciously made a decision to be slightly unethical--under these circumstances. Withholding information. Sep 27 16 08:25 pm Link I use to be forgiving. Way forgiving. These days I'm a one strike your out kind of guy. Sep 28 16 09:12 am Link I have a zero tolerance policy for flakes. When I was more lenient in the past and gave models a second chance they always flaked the second time around as well. Sep 28 16 09:27 am Link I have had the occassional flake over the years and have had no tolerance for such behavior Recently i shot with an agency model who was 2 hrs late and ( unexpectedly did not have her new hair color completeld ) THe Shoot went well though and there were many potentially good shots taken ( if not for the hair issue ) She now has her hair "completed " and has messaged me several times requesting a reshoot . I have refused and told her that she wasted both my time and money with the first shoot ( I had paid $30 for her makeup to be done ) I did run into her the other night at backstage at a fashion gala - and complimented her on her finished hair . But that only seemed to prompt her to start texting me again the next day asking for a reshoot Sorry Sweetie Sep 28 16 10:20 am Link oopsie Sep 28 16 10:20 am Link Happened only a handful of times in 7 years. But if it does, I block them on MM and tell every potential photographer they might work with that they are un reliable Sep 28 16 11:49 am Link I try to be very flexible because in most cases I'm not paying the models. While people should call or email to cancel sometimes they don't. I tell models to confirm an hour or so before a planned shoot, I think if you ask someone to shoot and they flake or cancel last minute try and be understanding because you approached them. If they ask you however the onus is on them to be more responsible. Let me be clear in every case models should let photographer know they aren't coming but I also understand that people forget or change their minds. The key is not to take or make it personal. Only arrange sessions times that are convenient to you. Don't pay for studio time for unknown models. Most of all make sure to get confirmation calls, emails or texts. Sep 28 16 01:22 pm Link i get flaked on a lot, like big time, even by my friends, or ppl i know. The last girl who flaked on me was during an outdoor night shoot. We had scheduled for that time, we met, talked, went to the neighborhood where the location was but before we actually got to the spot I was going to shoot her at she started complaining a number of times about how dark it was, and how it wouldn't make for good photos, and how she wasn't feeling it, then just left. For the record, there was enough ambient street lights to easily shoot without a flash, that's how bright it was, and it was a safe and public area. But I wasn't going to argue my point any further. I had already shown her photos of the location when we met and she didn't have an issue. I don't have a policy, I typically won't work with that person again. If anyone asks I'll them my experience. Sep 28 16 01:29 pm Link Saitama wrote: It seems to me you should get one. I would never allow that to happen. I would never have agreed to work with her. Sep 28 16 02:24 pm Link Photography InFocus wrote: Case by case basis, but they are moved down my mental list of models to follow up with. I will usually just forget about them, unless they make a serious effort to reschedule. Sep 28 16 02:30 pm Link Risen Phoenix Photo wrote: There was no indication of this type of behavior until we actually started walking towards the location. Sep 28 16 02:34 pm Link Saitama wrote: That sounds like someone who didn't trust your vision. How would she know if the lighting wouldn't produce good results? Is she a photographer? Sep 28 16 02:40 pm Link FYI - 4 1/2 year old thread bumped, and the OP is no longer on the site. Sep 28 16 02:43 pm Link so on your front page just make a heading in the bio..... "NOT RECOMENDED" .... n list the names of flakes. Sep 28 16 03:08 pm Link Greg Kolack wrote: Haha, I'm a follower I guess. Sep 28 16 03:14 pm Link ChadAlan wrote: No she has no idea how to use a camera. I get the feeling she must be one of these flighty and capricious types, because she had no issue with shooting in the evening even before I showed her photos of the brightly lit area I was taking her to. Now she has zero chance of shooting with me again even though we live 15 minutes apart and have the same off days outside of the weekends. All I can do is shake my head at the utter lack of foresight on her part. Sep 29 16 02:07 am Link |