Forums > Events > Sept 2 Mexican Cruiseshoot / Cabo-Puerta Vallerta

Model

emelle

Posts: 105

San Francisco, California, US

Mellissa Ballard wrote:

thank you!

Diva! Wow

Sep 24 12 08:38 am Link

Model

emelle

Posts: 105

San Francisco, California, US

Sep 24 12 08:39 am Link

Model

ChanelR

Posts: 246

Anaheim, California, US

Paul Albert wrote:

Bumble, I am so sorry that you are among the folks whose expectations were left lacking.

It is very difficult to respond to your post in an open forum, without unintentionally hurting feelings, or fomenting deeper animosity and disdain for one or another person, but I feel compeled to say something.

I support your thoughts, I know you were not alone in those feelings.  I also support those who say they had a great time, because I believe them too, I am among those.

One of my favorite things to do is meet new people.  There was an abundance of that for me.  I am glad we met, and I look forward to the next time our paths cross.  Hopefully we will be laughing about the trip, and recovery from your pain will be full and complete...

I agree with Bumble(to an extent- bc I also agree with Paul. This trip did seem to have more GWCs than seasoned professional photographers, but in the end, I made the most of the trip and chalked it up to meeting some great people. I ended up making some new friends in models as well as photographers that I hope will become life long friendships.

Sadly I am a little embarassed by some of the photos I reviewed that some photographers took of me-I will not say who. (I'm a size 3 and since some photographers haven't learned their lighting/angles/giving direction to create flattering lines just yet, I feel like I look atleast twice the size I really am)

However, I got some GREAT photos from some of the more experienced photographers that attended this event. Although I am embarassed by some of the 'GWCs' that photographed me as they're lighting/angles weren't very flattering, I'm hoping that they use them as a tool for learning and grow as photographers from there.

As far as the drama was concerned...I'm sure that many of you-if not all of you-are aware that I was very outspoken about how I felt about the behavior of some of our photographers on this trip. They said/did things that were VERY unprofessional and in some cases just down right disgusting. I was upset about these said 'photographers' being there bc they made the professionals look bad as well as the models-and these guys also made Gary look bad. This trip reflects on him as well since he had organized it. I've known Gary for over 6 years now..I know he would never intentionally put any of us in a situation that is uncomfortable/unsafe.

There were models that got really drunk/hungover-and then photographers complained. Well...get mad at the creeper photographer who kept trying to get the girl drunk for less than professional reasons or the GWCs who made some of the models feel like they should atleast have fun since they're either not going to get photos at all in the end or not get photos worth using.

It was really upsetting to come home in the red as I was hoping to book some paid one on ones since I took off from work to attend this-but that was also a risk I chose to take. Sadly it seemed that there was a reacurring mention of models not being 'worth' paying if we weren't going to take our clothes off for one on ones.

More power to the models that were brave enough to shoot nudes-I commend you. It's just not in everyone's comfort zone-so those of us that chose to be more conservative were subject to more verbal abuse/ridicule it seemed from some of the photographers. To be honest in some cases I personally felt like some of the girls who were getting paid one on ones to shoot nude rubbed in other model's faces that they got paid while the rest of us went home broke.

All in all, there was some unprofessional behavior on both sides of the spectrum. I hope that we can all just learn from this and know what to look out for in the future to make sure we benefit from our next adventure. Sorry for the long rant-I'm sure someone will be offended by something I've said one way or another but this is an open forum so please try to keep an open mind and see this from all sides. Thanks!

Sep 24 12 10:25 am Link

Model

Mellissa Ballard

Posts: 81

Indio, California, US

ChanelR wrote:

I agree with Bumble(to an extent- bc I also agree with Paul. This trip did seem to have more GWCs than seasoned professional photographers, but in the end, I made the most of the trip and chalked it up to meeting some great people. I ended up making some new friends in models as well as photographers that I hope will become life long friendships.

Sadly I am a little embarassed by some of the photos I reviewed that some photographers took of me-I will not say who. (I'm a size 3 and since some photographers haven't learned their lighting/angles/giving direction to create flattering lines just yet, I feel like I look atleast twice the size I really am)

However, I got some GREAT photos from some of the more experienced photographers that attended this event. Although I am embarassed by some of the 'GWCs' that photographed me as they're lighting/angles weren't very flattering, I'm hoping that they use them as a tool for learning and grow as photographers from there.

As far as the drama was concerned...I'm sure that many of you-if not all of you-are aware that I was very outspoken about how I felt about the behavior of some of our photographers on this trip. They said/did things that were VERY unprofessional and in some cases just down right disgusting. I was upset about these said 'photographers' being there bc they made the professionals look bad as well as the models-and these guys also made Gary look bad. This trip reflects on him as well since he had organized it. I've known Gary for over 6 years now..I know he would never intentionally put any of us in a situation that is uncomfortable/unsafe.

There were models that got really drunk/hungover-and then photographers complained. Well...get mad at the creeper photographer who kept trying to get the girl drunk for less than professional reasons or the GWCs who made some of the models feel like they should atleast have fun since they're either not going to get photos at all in the end or not get photos worth using.

It was really upsetting to come home in the red as I was hoping to book some paid one on ones since I took off from work to attend this-but that was also a risk I chose to take. Sadly it seemed that there was a reacurring mention of models not being 'worth' paying if we weren't going to take our clothes off for one on ones.

More power to the models that were brave enough to shoot nudes-I commend you. It's just not in everyone's comfort zone-so those of us that chose to be more conservative were subject to more verbal abuse/ridicule it seemed from some of the photographers. To be honest in some cases I personally felt like some of the girls who were getting paid one on ones to shoot nude rubbed in other model's faces that they got paid while the rest of us went home broke.

All in all, there was some unprofessional behavior on both sides of the spectrum. I hope that we can all just learn from this and know what to look out for in the future to make sure we benefit from our next adventure. Sorry for the long rant-I'm sure someone will be offended by something I've said one way or another but this is an open forum so please try to keep an open mind and see this from all sides. Thanks!

Well said :-)

Sep 24 12 11:27 am Link

Photographer

Select Models

Posts: 36178

Upland, California, US

Well HEY people... remember this posted information I placed on page one 'several weeks' before the cruise?... wink

THE SECONDARY DIRECTIVE for this cruiseshoot is, to have some outrageous funtimes and party your ass off.  HOWEVER... you CAN NOT party so hard that you fail to accomplish THE PRIME DIRECTIVE (working with new friends and getting great images).  If you get shit-faced drunk at the bar, and are seriously faded the next day, you ARE NOT going to look good in pictures girls.  And guys... you're photographic skills will be seriously impared if your camera is in hangover mode... and incase you didn't know it, that's the 'almost all of your images are fucked up in one way or another' mode.  You are welcome to have a few drinks and get alittle tipsy, but let's not get hammered.

Sadly, we had about a dozen 'violators of the secondary directive' (got FUBARed... fucked up beyond all recognition)... making the organizational efforts of this event somewhat difficult at times... people not answering their room phones... not showing up at the designated meeting places... and because there's zero cell phone coverage on the ship... communication efforts were extremely difficult... hmm

When you're on a cruiseship, and there's thousands of other people all around you (and not necessarily part of our group) that are partying their asses off and getting shitfaced drunk, it's very tempting to just join in... and once your in 'party mode' and you have strange people buying you free drinks (that happened to at least a dozen of our models in the Red Carpet Nightclub)... it's EASY to let the alcohol take over and help you forget about the obligations you had to the others in our group... hmm

Other than Isabella having to be flown home with dehydration problems, I'm just glad that no one got hurt or severely injured, and that almost all of you had a great time... cause I sure did.  You host a few cruiseboat photoshoot events... you live and you learn... a somewhat humbling experience.  This cruise had a few sparatic 'drama moments between participants'... and considering the moderator duties I put in, I consider myself fortunate to capture some of the great images I shot... borat

The upcoming cruiseboat photoshoot next year (Oct 13, 2013) will have some new rules and guidelines of participation that will insure a more successful event.  I made dozens of new friends on this venture, and I received loads of help from quite a few of you on several occasions, for which I am extremely grateful.  I spotted all the thank yous and high five postings from many of you who attended over the last several pages, and I want to sincerely thank you for your efforts and participation... wink

I have LOADS of paid assignments (and two events) that I will be working on over the next two weeks, taking up much of my time... BUT... I will be sparatically posting more shots from the cruise over the next several weeks, at time permits... so keep visiting the thread and stay tuned... wink

Sep 24 12 11:57 am Link

Photographer

Select Models

Posts: 36178

Upland, California, US

emelle wrote:

Love this....I think this photo captured it all!

I wish it was everyone... but unforunately... it's less than half of our group... hmm

Sep 24 12 03:17 pm Link

Photographer

C.C. Holdings

Posts: 594

New York, New York, US

I had no expectations,
had a great time,
nothing unexpected happened,
and had no trouble getting around mexico without the group

out of the 100 things that could have gone wrong,
such as meeting up with my model,
meeting up with the models I had scheduled one-on-one's with prior to the cruise,
or being driven way out in the wrong direction into the desert in mexico,
dropping my camera in the water,
losing my 64gb memory card and having no backup or other memory card,
getting swept away by a tidal wave
and more

none of this occurred

thanks for setting this up Gary, I'll have to come back out to Cali soon

Sep 24 12 04:39 pm Link

Photographer

Gemini Photo

Posts: 198

Calgary, Alberta, Canada

I too have mixed feelings about this trip, in some ways it did not meet my expectations and in others it exceeded them. I saw dear friends again and I made new friendships I hope will last a lifetime! I chose to make the best of it and did!

Although the ship offered some unique backdrops, I also found it quite restrictive. Crazy wind on deck at times, very busy common areas, tiny rooms, communication issues, hours available at the port of calls just to name a few!

In my opinion our group was just too large to manage effectively or to be able to move into an area like the mini golf for a group shoot without unintentionally pushing the public out of the way. Ever conscious of the fact that they paid for their cruise ticket the same as we did I was simply not willing to "push" people out of the way to get the "shot". Add to that a couple of models wearing less than family friendly attire and I can see why security intervened, permission or not.

I saw first hand from at least 2 GWC's images taken that were zoomed in on certain areas of the models unknown to them! This is a violation of the models privacy and trust and is in no way acceptable! One GWC even showed me thinking I would somehow be impressed, the other openly passing around his I-pad for all to see! I have no respect for these few individuals whose behavior could undo years of carefully building a solid reputation by the rest of us. It reflects badly on Gary as well.

For that reason our group within the group, quietly distanced themselves from the rest. That choice had both pros and cons!

I managed to shoot with about 1/3 of the group and the models I worked with were all amazing, beautiful and creative! Many with more experience than myself and able to teach me a few things as well!

Would I go again? I don't know but if I did I would go about many things differently. I might even offer my services to help with the organization.

A few suggestions for next time:

A master list of all participants, who sponsored who and what room number they are in.

Book a private room for the first meeting where guidlines and expectations can be clearly laid out and communicated to all.

Be clear on whether we are on Mexico time, ship time or LA time. There was a lot of confusion regarding this and groups were leaving at different times or worse sitting waiting while the best light of the day is wasted.

The guy doing the organizing should be in the first group to depart paving the way for the rest, not running around trying to gather stragglers. It should have been clear that if they are not on time then it's their responsibilty to get themselves to the appointed place!

This was a big job for Gary, in the end he put in a valiant effort but it was a bit much for just one man!

Sep 24 12 06:02 pm Link

Model

You may call me Celine

Posts: 166

Los Angeles, California, US

Hi everybody!  As of yesterday, it has been two weeks since we all said farewell to each other.  I have been keeping up with this thread every single day.  I see some fantastic photos but it seems as if they are of the same models. 

I personally tried to shoot with every photographer just for the experience of it.  I approached photographers during group shoots when they were just standing around.  When I asked if they were available to shoot, I heard some of the most lame excuses.  "I'm waiting for so and so to change..."  Really?  Then, there were some photographers whom I NEVER saw at the group shoots (because they only wanted to shoot nudes).  This was disappointing to say the least and not my understanding of how the group shoots were supposed to be. 

GARY, THIS IS NOT A REFLECTION ON YOU!  IT IS THE PHOTOGRAPHERS WHO CAME WITH THEIR OWN AGENDA.   

Nevertheless, I know that I had the opportunity to work with at least 15 photographers.  I think that is a pretty decent ratio.  I sent an email to every single one that I worked with thanking them for working with me...and providing them with all of my contact information.

To date, I have seen pictures from 6 of those photographers.  Thank you Gary A., Gary R., JT, David, Selden, and Ari.

I understand that we all have lives and we had to get back to them immediately upon our return.  But this isn't my first rodeo guys.  Two weeks is way too long to wait for just ONE image.  If nothing else, let us know what is going on.

I will send another PM to those I worked with.  To those who chose not to work with me...well, what can I say?  Your loss...

Sep 24 12 06:29 pm Link

Photographer

F-stop Jonny

Posts: 92

Dallas, Texas, US

ChanelR wrote:
All in all, there was some unprofessional behavior on both sides of the spectrum.

Fine just call me out by name why don't you wink


To be fair I seriously doubt if there were many people on the boat that partied harder than I did.

I also would be surprised if there were very many who worked harder at getting great photos than Jodi, Marla and I did. (Although I know there were others who worked just as hard.)

Did I get to shoot with everyone I wanted to? Not even close, (not even 1/3).  But with a group that size, for me (with my ability (I’ll admit I’m a relative nube at this), and my somewhat tedious style), it would have been a logistic impossibility. There’s no way I could have shot everyone, and done anyone justice. My hat’s off to those with the skill to pull that off.

As far as getting everyone that I did shoot with photos, I’m doing what I can.  I’ve turned down several shoots since I’ve been home because I know I need to get shots from the cruise out to those who participated.

Sep 24 12 08:25 pm Link

Photographer

C.C. Holdings

Posts: 594

New York, New York, US

anybody keep in touch with that girl on the boat, the one that was interested in modeling?

Sep 24 12 08:57 pm Link

Model

Bumble

Posts: 61

San Francisco, California, US

http://i1149.photobucket.com/albums/o594/bumble104/Portraits%20MM%20800w/2012-09-06_Bill_Lopez_Photog_0522_e1_800.jpg

SOS SOS SOS SOS SOS SOS SOS SOS SOS SOS SOS SOS..  .. ... .. ..... .. ...!

BILL, THANK YOU FOR GETTING YOUR CAPTURES SO FAST. YOU WERE RIGHT MOST MODELS, AFTER GETTING WIPED OUT ONCE, WOULD QUIT! BUT BILL... THIS IS GILLIAN'S ISLAND. GINGER STILL NEEDS A CAPTURE OR I WILL HEAR MORE BITCHING, ABOUT SPENDING SO MUCH MONEY AND MISSIN'

GARY THERE IS NO WAY YOU COULD HAVE BEEN AT ALL PLACES AT ALL TIMES CAUSE FIRES WERE BURNING RED!

Went back to my doc. today... he said whiplash; means yes models got hurt! I will need to continue to miss and or cut back on my activities as well as my work as a personal trainer, because unless I want to blow my 5 bulging disks and go to the skipper for surgery. He then started singing, " Just sit right back and you'll hear a tale. A tale of a fateful trip" ... blah blah blah

Sep 24 12 09:02 pm Link

Model

Jin N Tonic

Posts: 176

Los Angeles, California, US

-Ira wrote:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8042/8018527350_1972fa6b90_z.jpg
Nacho by Ira Monko 1974, on Flickr

AWWW!!
and the winner for best photo of the cruise goes to.... "MEXI-CAT!" by -Ira Photography!

Sep 24 12 09:21 pm Link

Model

Jin N Tonic

Posts: 176

Los Angeles, California, US

F-stop Jonny wrote:

Fine just call me out by name why don't you wink


To be fair I seriously doubt if there were many people on the boat that partied harder than I did.

I also would be surprised if there were very many who worked harder at getting great photos than Jodi, Marla and I did. (Although I know there were others who worked just as hard.)

Did I get to shoot with everyone I wanted to? Not even close, (not even 1/3).  But with a group that size, for me (with my ability (I’ll admit I’m a relative nube at this), and my somewhat tedious style), it would have been a logistic impossibility. There’s no way I could have shot everyone, and done anyone justice. My hat’s off to those with the skill to pull that off.

As far as getting everyone that I did shoot with photos, I’m doing what I can.  I’ve turned down several shoots since I’ve been home because I know I need to get shots from the cruise out to those who participated.

jonny - you my hero!
*mmmmuah!*
besos y besos

Sep 24 12 09:23 pm Link

Model

Jin N Tonic

Posts: 176

Los Angeles, California, US

-Ira wrote:

Chanel, hands down.

lol agreed! close second by the handsy miss brooke! ;D

Sep 24 12 09:27 pm Link

Model

Bumble

Posts: 61

San Francisco, California, US

http://i1149.photobucket.com/albums/o594/bumble104/Portraits%20MM%20800w/2012-09-06_Bill_Lopez_0582_e1_800.jpg

OK SO I NEED SOME ADVICE PLEASE...

I am the kind of model that will give blood, sweet, tears to give photog's what they ask for during any shoot. So why.... And is it ok, that after I am home my sponsor is asking me to sign a model release that must EXCLUDE the best images he chooses from posting to this thread and my port on MM? I am beyond butt sore. I am more than hurt. 98% of the "top" pictures he choose are from group shoots.
I have never been told I can't post images on MM for promotion.
WE SHOT AN AVERAGE OF 6-8 HOURS A DAY! (NO DRINKING TIME, ha ha NO REST, FUN, NADA!)
You bet, I said "buy the entire set and they belong to you," I had not been told any images were not being allowed on MM or my port. We had a verbal agreement. (stop LOL) that I got all raw pictures as well as him before the trip was over. (Yes, I have these files.)
Glad Bill got some nice captures of MY shipwrecked idea.
I am clearly reaching out to all of you to help me understand?
I AM MARYANN BEGGING GINGER WTF?!

I AM LOST ON AN ISLAND GUYS, SOS...SOS... GARY ANYONE....??? HELLO???

Sep 24 12 09:32 pm Link

Model

Bumble

Posts: 61

San Francisco, California, US

http://i1149.photobucket.com/albums/o594/bumble104/Portraits%20MM%20800w/2012-09-06_Bill_Lopez_Photog_0521_e4_800.jpg

Thank you Bill,
"SHIPWRECKED" you got it, ART!
HUGS. (not to hard OOCH smile )
Bumble

Sep 24 12 10:24 pm Link

Photographer

F-stop Jonny

Posts: 92

Dallas, Texas, US

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/s720x720/251149_427758217282668_412873254_n.jpg

Sep 24 12 10:35 pm Link

Model

NYMPH

Posts: 624

Oakland, California, US

Tina Marie Desaro wrote:
This is so funny but maybe a little true. You needed to go about the cruise the smart way like I did, barely shoot and make most of situation, I am very happy with my results from cruise experience and came back 5 lbs lighter cuz I spent my time working out on cruise, eating healthy and seeing the entertaining sites both on ship and off ship smile.

Amen! I lucked out because I had a fantastic and generous sponsor. The last day on the ship, I was out and about cuz he was hiring girls for one on ones the whole day!

I would have enjoyed it more if there was a higher caliber for photographers, or at least, for their manners. I would highly recommend having a mandatory meet n greet prior to boarding. A nice quiet restaurant where everyone can see each other's work and get to know each other before the crazy of the cruise starts. Yes, some people might bitch and moan about an extra day of travel, but I think overall, it would be a good idea. I could have tried to memorize portfolios and take down names, but it was so hard getting in touch with people! I still can't remember half the names either.

I would also whine a little bit about photographers being unwilling to pay. I know a lot of girls on the cruise were relatively new to modeling, and are happy to shoot all day. I've been there. It's awesome. More props to them. But this is my full time job, and I've been doing it for a while. It's unlikely that I'm just going to want to pose all over the place, all the time, for an unknown caliber of photo. But I've been getting the gist from photographers that they felt that they deserved to have quality shooting time with absolutely everyone, and there are some similar comments from models.

Group shoots are group shoots. They're always a bit of a mess, even in the best circumstances. For me, it's a good time to get to know people - know how they shoot, how they pose, how they photograph, how they communicate etc. - and then, if you like a person, you negotiate a time to shoot together. Whether that is paid or trade. I would almost suggest that the group shoot portions be shorter. Let everyone experience everything, and then encourage people to go straight into one on ones. We can all be there as a group, keep everyone's attention, and then break off into pairs or groups. Especially since that's what happened anyways with such a huge group.

Wow, this post got out of hand sometime ago. I mostly meant to chime out a cheery 'amen' to enjoying the vacation. Ah well, take it or leave it.

Sep 24 12 10:43 pm Link

Photographer

David Stone Imaging

Posts: 1015

Seattle, Washington, US

NYMPH wrote:
Amen! I lucked out because I had a fantastic and generous sponsor. The last day on the ship, I was out and about cuz he was hiring girls for one on ones the whole day!

Wow, this post got out of hand sometime ago. I mostly meant to chime out a cheery 'amen' to enjoying the vacation. Ah well, take it or leave it.

Well...I lucked out too...you were great!  And a lot of photographers thanked me for sponsoring you. 

By that last day I had only photographed a dozen models.  My ankle/walking cast was part of the problem at the beaches, but as fate had it, word got out I had money to spend for one-on-ones, and I had more models willing to model than there was time in the day.

Next year I am going to budget more for one-on-ones and not wait until the last day.  I also plan to get a cruise room conducive to this.

There are a lot of things that could be improved with just a few changes.  Since Gary does not make anything from the cruise, and there is no direct financial incentive, it would seem a few of us photographers and models that want to go next time could form a cyber board, and create what we think would be a workable structure for the rest?  Perhaps we could even start a separate thread and ask for suggestions...so folks have a place to aire their concerns?

Sep 24 12 11:37 pm Link

Model

NYMPH

Posts: 624

Oakland, California, US

David Lumen Photography wrote:
There are a lot of things that could be improved with just a few changes.  Since Gary does not make anything from the cruise, and there is no direct financial incentive, it would seem a few of us photographers and models that want to go next time could form a cyber board, and create what we think would be a workable structure for the rest?  Perhaps we could even start a separate thread and ask for suggestions...so folks have a place to aire their concerns?

That's a great idea! I know a lot of people who run larger group shoots use meetup.com or they set up their own free, simple forum. That way you can even have multiple discussions, and you don't have the worry of all of MM seeing it. I vote yes.

Sep 24 12 11:40 pm Link

Photographer

C.C. Holdings

Posts: 594

New York, New York, US

David Lumen Photography wrote:
as fate had it, word got out I had money to spend for one-on-ones, and I had more models willing to model than there was time in the day.

Next year I am going to budget more for one-on-ones and not wait to the last day.  I also plan to get a cruise room conducive to this.

haha really? the only thing I actually scheduled for this cruise beforehand was a single one-on-one, albiet with two models

which was a lot of fun! I try to keep my priorities unambiguous

I hadn't really considered that word was going around about that sort of thing, so I don't know if it happened to me but I'm sure people were clear who I was after a few days

Sep 24 12 11:58 pm Link

Photographer

David Stone Imaging

Posts: 1015

Seattle, Washington, US

David Lumen Photography wrote:
There are a lot of things that could be improved with just a few changes.  Since Gary does not make anything from the cruise, and there is no direct financial incentive, it would seem a few of us photographers and models that want to go next time could form a cyber board, and create what we think would be a workable structure for the rest?  Perhaps we could even start a separate thread and ask for suggestions...so folks have a place to aire their concerns?

NYMPH wrote:
That's a great idea! I know a lot of people who run larger group shoots use meetup.com or they set up their own free, simple forum. That way you can even have multiple discussions, and you don't have the worry of all of MM seeing it. I vote yes.

These folks advertise a free forum.  I'll check it out.  What would be a good name for the forum itself?

http://proboards.com/?gclid=COuviaiT0LICFcV7Qgod83QAvw

Sep 25 12 12:01 am Link

Photographer

David Stone Imaging

Posts: 1015

Seattle, Washington, US

Bumble wrote:
OK SO I NEED SOME ADVICE PLEASE...

I am the kind of llama that will give blood, sweet, tears to give photog's what they ask for during any shoot. So why.... And is it ok, that after I am home my sponsor is asking me to sign a llama release that must EXCLUDE the best images he chooses from posting to this thread and my port on MM? I am beyond butt sore. I am more than hurt. 98% of the "top" pictures he choose are from group shoots.
I have never been told I can't post images on MM for promotion.
WE SHOT AN AVERAGE OF 6-8 HOURS A DAY! (NO DRINKING TIME, ha ha NO REST, FUN, NADA!)
You bet, I said "buy the entire set and they belong to you," I had not been told any images were not being allowed on MM or my port. We had a verbal agreement. (stop LOL) that I got all raw pictures as well as him before the trip was over. (Yes, I have these files.)
Glad Bill got some nice captures of MY shipwrecked idea.
I am clearly reaching out to all of you to help me understand?
I AM MARYANN BEGGING GINGER WTF?!

I AM LOST ON AN ISLAND GUYS, SOS...SOS... GARY ANYONE....??? HELLO???

Hope this helps you get back to land...

Copyright law was written with this kind of situation in mind.  Lets break it down to see how it applies here...

A photographer has initial, but limited rights to any image he captures, unless he has contracted his services, in which case the person/entity that contracted him owns the rights to the images.

The Cruise guidelines made it clear that in return for a llama being sponsored with free passage and tips, she would llama for the group shoots and do limited llamaing for her sponsor.  Legally, to satisfy the limited llamaing obligation, you would take the passage cost and divide it by the llamaing rate...and this would give you the number of llamaing hours owed.  For instance...if passage was $1000 and the llamaing rate was $100/hr, then the llama would owe 10 hours to complete the obligation.  If her rate is $200/hr, it would be 5 hours, etc.

Once the limited llamaing/non-group shoot obligation is complete, any further llamaing goes to a TF status unless otherwise agreed at the time.  If you did nude llamaing, you would be allowed that higher rate, and it would seem that at 6 to 8 hours a day of llamaing, your obligation would be complete by the 1st or 2nd day.

So...Bumble...if you have the RAW files...you have to figure at what point your non-group llamaing obligation was complete, and then you are free to use the remaining images for non-commercial purposes...such as for MM, etc.  You cannot use them commercially, i.e., sell them without the photographer's permission, nor can he without yours.

Also, if you have the RAW files already, you may want to think what you have to gain at this point by signing anything?  Advising you what to do would be giving legal advice...and I can't do that.  The rest of this is just telling you how the laws are written, and we are all responsible for knowing that.

If you have further questions, please PM me.

Sep 25 12 12:17 am Link

Photographer

FFantastique

Posts: 800

Orlando, Florida, US

If you see any POTD images you like--vote! :-)
[This is a get-out-the-vote announcement and is not to be construed as soliciting. :-)]

Update: discovered that some apparently don't know what POTD. Then if they get there, they don't know which image.

So let me help a little. For POTD, look under Contests.
For what to vote for, you can look for image that you honestly like.
We are not to solicit votes for specific rules so I'm intentionally vague to avoid violating MM rules. [MM moderators: just wink at this, OK? Thanks]
However not to leave you rudderless, look for model you might have seen on the cruise http://www.modelmayhem.com/2327747 who might be on the high seas.
Hope this is adequate to achieve one of my prime objectives--a POTD!

Yes, I had agenda on this cruise other than Gary's Prime Directive. It was to get a POTD (as I just said), and allocate zero on adult beverages! :-). Since some "begged" me for fluids to imbibe, I capitulated for humanitarian reasons so I failed in that objective so maybe I can achieve the other ulterior objective--a POTD!  [This is hyperbolic for effect--do NOT take it literally nor flame me nor accuse me of lying. Hyperbole is a literary device! :-)]

Deadline is midnight Pacific time. Tuesday.

Results:  Model performed just fine on the piano on the high seas!
RESULTS: ranked 40th out of 106 submissions, with 7 votes vs. 53 for #1.

Sep 25 12 12:45 am Link

Model

Bumble

Posts: 61

San Francisco, California, US

FFantastique wrote:
If you see any POTD images you like--vote! :-)
[This is a get-out-the-vote announcement and is not to be construed as soliciting. :-)]

POD VOTE??? UM I am in so much pain, I just wrote you back on mm message. Get out and vote?  Glad to see priorities stay where they belong!
A flea on my dogs ass, think I just heard him/her say yum! hmmm maybe it was dumb?

Sep 25 12 01:02 am Link

Photographer

Mark G Bissell

Posts: 443

Jacksonville, North Carolina, US

So Ladies and "Gentlemen" Spending 7 days together, working or partying. I believe I have met some amazing people. Hopefully I will meet again.

Thankfully and not so thankfully I work 5-6 days a week. So photos being posted have be sporadic at best. That however does not = you not getting them.

There are some amazing memories and quality people I met. 1 camera went down trying to create an amazing image smile I got the image.

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd227/mgabissell/Cabo-PV%202012/GinaLazo--0027-b.jpg

Hopefully in the end, many of us will remain friends and chalk up the difficult situations to learning experiences.

Thank you to all whom made my trip an enjoyable one

Sep 25 12 03:48 am Link

Photographer

F-stop Jonny

Posts: 92

Dallas, Texas, US

emelle wrote:

Diva! Wow

smile

Sep 25 12 04:38 am Link

Photographer

Paul Albert

Posts: 444

Los Angeles, California, US

It is usually around this time that someone posts the little dude eating popcorn...

Hmmmm, noticeably absent.

Sep 25 12 06:08 am Link

Photographer

Paul Albert

Posts: 444

Los Angeles, California, US

ShelleyLynne wrote:
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q84/shelita3/d3c5319e.jpg

Dont ask Dont tell......................

Oh oh, the secret is out, peeing standing up is fun...

Sep 25 12 06:21 am Link

Photographer

FFantastique

Posts: 800

Orlando, Florida, US

C.C. Holdings  wrote:
anybody keep in touch with that girl on the boat, the one that was interested in modeling?

She is not on MM yet but has authorized me to release: brooks.kaitlin@gmail.com
BTW, "that girl" is actually a young lady! And intelligent too.

I learned from Aaron Sorkin the word ensorcelled. If anyone can furnish an introduction (since his agency and publicist have declined) I would be delighted to meet a master wordsmither! :-)

[My commentary on note above:
Whether the juxtaposition of these two topics is a nonsequitar or not is intentionally debatable. It provides some plausible deniability yet alludes by mere proximity to some positive affect! ☺]

Sep 25 12 09:49 am Link

Photographer

Select Models

Posts: 36178

Upland, California, US

FFantastique wrote:
Whether the juxtaposition of these two topics is a nonsequitar or not is intentionally debatable. It provides some plausible deniability yet alludes by mere proximity to some positive affect!

I seeeeeeee... well that makes perfect sense to me... I think... hmm... lol

Sep 25 12 11:30 am Link

Photographer

Select Models

Posts: 36178

Upland, California, US

Bumble wrote:
http://i1149.photobucket.com/albums/o594/bumble104/Portraits%20MM%20800w/2012-09-06_Bill_Lopez_Photog_0521_e4_800.jpg

Thank you Bill,
"SHIPWRECKED" you got it, ART!
HUGS. (not to hard OOCH smile )
Bumble

I always like givin 'high fives' on fantastic images... and this one ROCKS!... borat

Sep 25 12 01:27 pm Link

Photographer

FotoGregg

Posts: 1059

Riverside, California, US

FFantastique wrote:
Whether the juxtaposition of these two topics is a nonsequitar or not is intentionally debatable. It provides some plausible deniability yet alludes by mere proximity to some positive affect!

Select Models wrote:
I seeeeeeee... well that makes perfect sense to me... I think... hmm... lol

Check out "Google Translate, JT to English"...LOL

Sep 25 12 01:29 pm Link

Photographer

Paul Albert

Posts: 444

Los Angeles, California, US

FFantastique wrote:
Whether the juxtaposition of these two topics is a nonsequitar or not is intentionally debatable. It provides some plausible deniability yet alludes by mere proximity to some positive affect!

Select Models wrote:
I seeeeeeee... well that makes perfect sense to me... I think... hmm... lol

FotoGregg wrote:
Check out "Google Translate, JT to English"...LOL

Problem with "Google Translate, JT to English" is; that language is in constant flux, so google is often out of date just minutes after the last transalation

Sep 25 12 02:26 pm Link

Photographer

FFantastique

Posts: 800

Orlando, Florida, US

Paul Albert wrote:
Problem with "Google Translate, JT to English" is; that language is in constant flux, so google is often out of date just minutes after the last transalation

OK guys, one free translation!
Without (most of) the geek speak :-)
The writer chooses to have his cake and eat it too.
The wording is carefully crafted without benefit of any mind altering substances :-)
Respectfully, the characterization of lingo in constant flux is inaccurate.

Because the liking word "ensorceled" (aka bewitching) follows the report on the model one could reasonable link the two and conclude that the tog liked the model;
conversely, if some jealous SM model accused the tog of excessive favoritism of the new model, the writer could reasonably claim that he was just switching to an entirely different topic of talking to another writer (Sorkin) and their proximity is no cause to logically connect the subjects in the two paragraphs although one may follow the other [non sequitar.]

Bottom line: I ain't telling if I like the model or not, but I do seriously wish to meet wordsmith Aaron Sorkin who is a writer par excellence whose skills and research I venerate and from whom I learned the word ensorceled![I spent 20+ hours trying to prove him wrong on one crucial line by Leo in West Wing during a frenetic scene but failed miserably!...but that's a whole 'nother story and unrelated to either primary or secondary directives!] PM me if you have viable leads. Ideally would like to meet at a time when he already has allocated to host a small writing class from Syracuse (his alma mater) in residence.

OK, any legitimate questions? :-)

Sep 25 12 08:18 pm Link

Photographer

FFantastique

Posts: 800

Orlando, Florida, US

Paul Albert wrote:
Bumble, I am so sorry that you are among the folks whose expectations were left lacking.

It is very difficult to respond to your post in an open forum, without unintentionally hurting feelings, or fomenting deeper animosity and disdain for one or another person, but I feel compelled to say something.

I support your thoughts, I know you were not alone in those feelings.  I also support those who say they had a great time, because I believe them too, I am among those.

One of my favorite things to do is meet new people.  There was an abundance of that for me.  I am glad we met, and I look forward to the next time our paths cross.  Hopefully we will be laughing about the trip, and recovery from your pain will be full and complete...

And I thought I was articulate!

Bumble is the subject of several POTD and I admire and respect those significant accomplishments. I'm disappointed that anyone is dissatisfied, particularly one so accomplished.

Same event, vastly different perspectives. Glad I'm not president...or Gary!

Sep 25 12 08:24 pm Link

Photographer

Bob-W

Posts: 226

Simi Valley, California, US

Bumble. BZZZZ
Please PM me. I have the pic you really liked. It will look good in your hive.
idk to post it here.

Sep 25 12 09:26 pm Link

Photographer

FFantastique

Posts: 800

Orlando, Florida, US

CSP Photography wrote:
Perhaps you can rent the whole cruise boat and just have models and photographers on board?  LOL

Select Models wrote:
Hell no... better than that... just buy the freakin cruiseboat... borat... lol

[from page 5]

I have a complicated plan that could conceivably allow us to buy the entire $700 million boat in 28 years if half of us joined forces and worked hard. If interested, PM me so I can attempt to share with you how the numbers work.

I know, in 30 years most of us won't look the same and some of our mobility will be reduced! :-)

Sep 25 12 09:43 pm Link

Photographer

FFantastique

Posts: 800

Orlando, Florida, US

Select llamas wrote:
...as a promoter who has hosted over 300 group shoots in close to 20 years... those numbers you mentioned up there are NOT consistent with a successful event.  ANYTIME you have a lopsided ratio of photographers to llamas (whether it be more llamas than photographers or more photographers than llamas), there will be PROBLEMS with those kind of attendance ratios. 

The IDEAL ratio is definitely a lot closer to 'one to one',...

... As we all know, we currently have quite a few more llamas attending this cruiseshoot than we do photographers... and believe me when I tell you... this is NOT a good thing...

[from page 13]
Gary was prescient!

PS:
Somewhere along the line, I realized that we togs were sorely outnumbered and clearly outgunned and attempted to mitigate the disparity...sans success.
In plain speak--I attempted to recruit more photographers and ones of high caliber but failed.

Sep 25 12 09:58 pm Link