Forums > Model Colloquy > Indie film being made about internet modeling

Photographer

Erick Prince

Posts: 3457

Austin, Texas, US

http://vimeo.com/48486876

Looks fairly promising.

Oct 23 12 04:52 pm Link

Photographer

C.C. Holdings

Posts: 612

New York, New York, US

I like it, would love to see more stuff about online modeling in this realistic light. Not to many people can relate

Oct 23 12 05:03 pm Link

Photographer

GoldRoseMedia

Posts: 2938

NORTH BRUNSWICK, New Jersey, US

Never heard of it before, but I watched the linked trailer. It does look promising -- a (mostly) positive documentary about Internet modeling, rather than the usual silly scaremongering.

Oct 23 12 05:05 pm Link

Photographer

Erick Prince

Posts: 3457

Austin, Texas, US

yeah, I tend to browse Kickstarter because I like helping out small projects and ran across it. The positivity of it is what I liked.

Oct 23 12 06:29 pm Link

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Photographer

GPS Studio Services

Posts: 37296

San Francisco, California, US

Sorry, I was unimpressed.   I'd love to make some honest comments, but ... some of those people are members of MM.  I've shot one of the models a lot.  I don't want to end in the brig, so I will leave it to my first comment.

I will say this though.  What you are looking at isn't an independent film, it is a documentary.  It is also unfunded.  The trailer is there to try to get people to donate.  I see nothing wrong with that, but this is a long way from being a viable project.  omp spent a lot of money on "Shut Up and Model" and it never went anywhere.  I doubted them from the moment the showed me the screen treatment.  It is one thing to shoot a video, it is another to get someone to distribute it.

Oct 23 12 07:08 pm Link

Model

QuietAsKept

Posts: 5935

Baltimore, Maryland, US

I would definitely be interested in watching the full movie.

Oct 23 12 08:41 pm Link

Photographer

John Jebbia

Posts: 27648

Phoenix, Arizona, US

The guy makes a statement I've contended all along. Most of the guys paying these girls do nothing with the photos.

Oct 23 12 08:50 pm Link

Photographer

John Jebbia

Posts: 27648

Phoenix, Arizona, US

I know one of the photographers!

Oct 23 12 08:55 pm Link

Photographer

Kent Art Photography

Posts: 3010

Ashford, England, United Kingdom

John Jebbia wrote:
The guy makes a statement I've contended all along. Most of the guys paying these girls do nothing with the photos.

Well, they probably don't do nothing with the photo's, surely?

Oct 23 12 09:02 pm Link

Photographer

Paul Best

Posts: 1297

Toronto, Ontario, Canada

i think  both paid and non paid would be a better contrasting film were those models just striped naked like it was nothing and to the models that do trade and seem they dont understand working models are doing nudes ..  seems to boring is their is no contrast and at the end get some trade models do a full nude and that would be more interesting with all the dynamics involved smile

Oct 23 12 09:32 pm Link

Model

Ivanafox

Posts: 979

Healesville, Victoria, Australia

Well, going by the most common subject of forum posts it will be a boring film. I mean who wants to watch a photographer standing about waiting for a model who never turns up?

Oct 23 12 09:36 pm Link

Photographer

Solas

Posts: 9538

Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Ivanafox wrote:
Well, going by the most common subject of forum posts it will be a boring film. I mean who wants to watch a photographer standing about waiting for a model who never turns up?

HA! win

Oct 23 12 09:46 pm Link

Photographer

John Jebbia

Posts: 27648

Phoenix, Arizona, US

Ivanafox wrote:
Well, going by the most common subject of forum posts it will be a boring film. I mean who wants to watch a photographer standing about waiting for a model who never turns up?

That was funny!

Oct 23 12 09:47 pm Link

Photographer

Rob Photosby

Posts: 3190

Brisbane, Queensland, Australia

It is a bit lightweight.

Oct 24 12 05:36 am Link

Photographer

Jerry Nemeth

Posts: 28470

Dearborn, Michigan, US

I liked the video!

Oct 24 12 07:50 am Link

Photographer

denis071

Posts: 102

Sarajevo, Federacija Bosna i Hercegovina, Bosnia and Herzegovina

definitely want to see the whole film.

Oct 24 12 07:53 am Link

Model

Gina Dee

Posts: 314

BRONX, New York, US

ei Total Productions wrote:
Sorry, I was unimpressed.   I'd love to make some honest comments, but ... some of those people are members of MM.  I've shot one of the models a lot.  I don't want to end in the brig, so I will leave it to my first comment.

I will say this though.  What you are looking at isn't an independent film, it is a documentary.  It is also unfunded.  The trailer is there to try to get people to donate.  I see nothing wrong with that, but this is a long way from being a viable project.  omp spent a lot of money on "Shut Up and Model" and it never went anywhere.  I doubted them from the moment the showed me the screen treatment.  It is one thing to shoot a video, it is another to get someone to distribute it.

Whether it gets distributed or not or your experience with one of the models isn't what qualifies it as relevant or important. Mainstream would eat it up if Tyra Banks was in it or some other marketable big name, but what makes it appeal to me is that somebody here (you) knows one of the models. I'm a new model, unsigned and I know I'll never qualify for traditional agency work. I can identify with their experience.

I hope this catches on and more people on here get behind it. Everybody that models and shoots around here aren't going to make it "legitimately" in the industry. But that doesn't mean our stories and our plights aren't worth aspiring to share. Everybody has the right to aspire to be heard.

Oct 24 12 02:40 pm Link

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Photographer

GPS Studio Services

Posts: 37296

San Francisco, California, US

ei Total Productions wrote:
Sorry, I was unimpressed.   I'd love to make some honest comments, but ... some of those people are members of MM.  I've shot one of the models a lot.  I don't want to end in the brig, so I will leave it to my first comment.

I will say this though.  What you are looking at isn't an independent film, it is a documentary.  It is also unfunded.  The trailer is there to try to get people to donate.  I see nothing wrong with that, but this is a long way from being a viable project.  omp spent a lot of money on "Shut Up and Model" and it never went anywhere.  I doubted them from the moment the showed me the screen treatment.  It is one thing to shoot a video, it is another to get someone to distribute it.

Gina Redd wrote:
Whether it gets distributed or not or your experience with one of the models isn't what qualifies it as relevant or important. Mainstream would eat it up if Tyra Banks was in it or some other marketable big name, but what makes it appeal to me is that somebody here (you) knows one of the models. I'm a new model, unsigned and I know I'll never qualify for traditional agency work. I can identify with their experience.

I hope this catches on and more people on here get behind it. Everybody that models and shoots around here aren't going to make it "legitimately" in the industry. But that doesn't mean our stories and our plights aren't worth aspiring to share. Everybody has the right to aspire to be heard.

I understand what you are saying, but, my sense is that this is geared towards us, not to a mainstream audience.  Having been in the film industry for years, I can run down the problems he is going to face with his current approach.  The filmaking itself is good.   I hope he is successful.

Internet modeling needs a good documentary to bring it into the sunshine. Perhaps as this matures, it will get there.

Oct 24 12 04:12 pm Link

Photographer

M Pandolfo Photography

Posts: 12116

Tampa, Florida, US

Yawn.

Oct 24 12 04:24 pm Link

Photographer

salvatori.

Posts: 3903

Bellefonte, Pennsylvania, US

Am I allowed to watch the trailer without an escort? Someone had to say it...

Hey, I'm all for anyone realizing their dreams and making art, so good luck to him/them, etc.

It does look like there is to be a bit of conflict (in the preview, I think the one model talked about getting a restraining order), and how comprehensive, honest and genuine all the subject matter is treated will determine whether it results in an actual 'documentary' or, as someone else said, is more of an 'infomercial.'

smile

Oct 24 12 04:36 pm Link

Photographer

GeorgeMann

Posts: 1148

Orange, California, US

Kent Art Photography wrote:
Well, they probably don't do nothing with the photo's, surely?

I hope your comment was not a feeble attempt to correct his grammar.
He wrote it correctly.

Oct 24 12 04:36 pm Link

Photographer

Srefis Limited

Posts: 960

Asheville, North Carolina, US

I'd like to see this. The girls look like they are having a great time (for the most part) and there are some great shots in there (IMO).

Oct 24 12 05:01 pm Link

Photographer

i c e c o l d

Posts: 8610

Fort Myers, Florida, US

Erick Prince wrote:
http://vimeo.com/48486876

Looks fairly promising.

Seems more like a photographers puff piece to me...maybe they should pitch in for their own advertising.

Depending on the audience this will be directed to and knowing the political climate of todays times...I can easily see this also becoming a "all photographers are bad/murderers/pervs/rapists/etc..." and "all models are prostitutes for taking cash"

If they really wanted to hit home with a documentary about internet modeling they will also need to show the sluggo/manager/abusive BF aspect as well as the thousands of wannabe models who wash out after a few months or years and how effed up their lives are once the quick cash is gone and their perceived fame has left them laying in a puddle of their own insecurities...

Oct 24 12 06:16 pm Link

Photographer

Select Models

Posts: 36284

Rancho Cucamonga, California, US

Shot with Floofie... showcased llama in this video... great llama with a sweet personality... borat

http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/110303/23/4d708f0ac591c.jpg

Oct 24 12 06:35 pm Link

Model

Paige Morgan

Posts: 4058

New York, New York, US

I don't see this getting made.

You can't argue that net modeling is replacing agency modeling because it involves nudity. Most agency fashion involves some nudity anyway.

"E-model" is a 15 years dated title.

It seems like a very softball piece, almost an infomercial.....it doesn't give the mainstream reason to care, as they state that the part of the internet model market they are showcasing leads nowhere, has "no glamour"....the pictures just sit online.

Kind of kills the dramatic tension for a mass audience, and the folks in the community already know the ins and outs of the net modeling world.

Oct 24 12 06:37 pm Link

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Photographer

GPS Studio Services

Posts: 37296

San Francisco, California, US

Paige Morgan wrote:
I don't see this getting made.

You can't argue that net modeling is replacing agency modeling because it involves nudity. Most agency fashion involves some nudity anyway.

"E-model" is a 15 years dated title.

It seems like a very softball piece, almost an infomercial.....it doesn't give the mainstream reason to care, as they state that the part of the internet model market they are showcasing leads nowhere, has "no glamour"....the pictures just sit online.

Kind of kills the dramatic tension for a mass audience, and the folks in the community already know the ins and outs of the net modeling world.

I am glad you said it.  I didn't want to make an unsolicited critique, but the way this thread is going this is appropriate.  I agree with your assessment.  Hollywood is far more sophisticated that than that when it comes to filmmaking and documentaries.  It is a good basic concept, but, frankly, I was bored watching it.

Oct 24 12 06:46 pm Link

Photographer

J Welborn

Posts: 2552

Clarksville, Tennessee, US

Erick Prince wrote:
http://vimeo.com/48486876

Looks fairly promising.

Thanks for the link --looks like it would be a good promotion for the internet model from a good point of view instead of the "bad news" side.

Hope to see it in it's final form .

Oct 24 12 06:56 pm Link

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Photographer

Giacomo Cirrincioni

Posts: 21473

New York, New York, US

I agree with Paige and ei...

Done some doc work.  For a mainstream audience you need conflict.  The kind of conflict that would piss most here off.  Start out light, turn dark and toss in a bit of "redemption" toward the end while still allowing the audience to be "concerned" when it's over... 

Make sure there's some drug abuse, show the few guys who've gone to jail, take a model who is serious and, without her knowledge (while it's being made) position her as a ludicrous hopeful wannabe that the audience will both ridicule and feel sorry for at the same time...  Make sure to throw in some domestic issues while at the same time showing an "alternative lifestyle" couple that seems to make it work, even though everyone "just knows" they're "freaks".  All of that sort of stuff.   

That's how you make it a mainstream documentary.  Without any real conflict, it's going nowhere.  May not be right, but it's true.

Oct 24 12 06:59 pm Link

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Photographer

studio36uk

Posts: 22105

Tavai, Sigave, Wallis and Futuna

ei Total Productions wrote:
Internet modeling needs a good documentary to bring it into the sunshine. Perhaps as this matures, it will get there.

Keeping in mind the expression that sunshine is considered a disinfectant.

Studio36

Oct 25 12 02:44 am Link

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Photographer

studio36uk

Posts: 22105

Tavai, Sigave, Wallis and Futuna

Paramour Productions wrote:
I agree with Paige and ei...

Done some doc work.  For a mainstream audience you need conflict.  The kind of conflict that would piss most here off.  Start out light, turn dark and toss in a bit of "redemption" toward the end while still allowing the audience to be "concerned" when it's over... 

Make sure there's some drug abuse, show the few guys who've gone to jail, take a model who is serious and, without her knowledge (while it's being made) position her as a ludicrous hopeful wannabe that the audience will both ridicule and feel sorry for at the same time...  Make sure to throw in some domestic issues while at the same time showing an "alternative lifestyle" couple that seems to make it work, even though everyone "just knows" they're "freaks".  All of that sort of stuff.   

That's how you make it a mainstream documentary.  Without any real conflict, it's going nowhere.  May not be right, but it's true.

There is one in the can that was to be shown in the UK but because of the Jimmy Savile / BBC scandal is temporarily on TX hold. Apparently it closely examines the wannabe "industry", in Japan in particular [but, not having seen it I don't know if it is limited to Japan], where particularly young wannabe model girls are brought to Japan from other countries, promptly chewed to bits by the "industry" then spit out faster than yesterdays sushi. A cautionary tale, I gather from the publicity, about being careful of what you wish for... and unhappy outcomes.

Studio36

Oct 25 12 02:56 am Link

Photographer

MKPhoto

Posts: 5665

Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada

Paramour Productions wrote:
I agree with Paige and ei...

Done some doc work.  For a mainstream audience you need conflict.  The kind of conflict that would piss most here off.  Start out light, turn dark and toss in a bit of "redemption" toward the end while still allowing the audience to be "concerned" when it's over... 

Make sure there's some drug abuse, show the few guys who've gone to jail, take a model who is serious and, without her knowledge (while it's being made) position her as a ludicrous hopeful wannabe that the audience will both ridicule and feel sorry for at the same time...  Make sure to throw in some domestic issues while at the same time showing an "alternative lifestyle" couple that seems to make it work, even though everyone "just knows" they're "freaks".  All of that sort of stuff.   

That's how you make it a mainstream documentary.  Without any real conflict, it's going nowhere.  May not be right, but it's true.

That would be an American reality show. We have enough of this crap already.

Oct 25 12 06:07 am Link

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Photographer

Giacomo Cirrincioni

Posts: 21473

New York, New York, US

MKPhoto wrote:
That would be an American reality show. We have enough of this crap already.

No not really.  I hate reality television and refuse to watch it, but I probably watch one documentary film a week and have worked on a few.  I also watch a LOT of foreign films.

Documentary films, narrative films - it makes no difference; without conflict there is no story.  If this film is to be funded, placed in major festivals with a shot at winning anything, and then distributed, this is the reality. 

Name me one documentary film you enjoyed that had no conflict, no story arc, no character "development" arc.

Oct 25 12 06:24 am Link

Model

Paige Morgan

Posts: 4058

New York, New York, US

It would be far more interesting if it compared and contrasted the various segments of internet model....maybe have one agency aspiring girl with fashion stats (something the mainstream is familiar with), one popular/successful glamour model (same idea, think a FHM/Maxim/Foreign edition of playboy type), a well known alt/fetish model(A Raquel Reed or a Mosh type career arc) and a well booking art nude model, who's name most folks wouldn't know, but have most likely seen their work in a gallery etc.

As it stands, I find its audience limited for the reasons I stated in the previous post.

Oct 25 12 07:50 am Link

Photographer

Art of the nude

Posts: 11896

Olivet, Michigan, US

Paul Best  wrote:
i think  both paid and non paid would be a better contrasting film were those models just striped naked like it was nothing and to the models that do trade and seem they dont understand working models are doing nudes ..  seems to boring is their is no contrast and at the end get some trade models do a full nude and that would be more interesting with all the dynamics involved smile

Many models who shoot trade ALSO "strip naked like it's nothing."  If they think the result is worth it.

Oct 25 12 08:18 am Link

Photographer

VisiFoto

Posts: 501

Knoxville, Tennessee, US

ei Total Productions wrote:
Sorry, I was unimpressed.   I'd love to make some honest comments, but ... some of those people are members of MM.  I've shot one of the models a lot.  I don't want to end in the brig, so I will leave it to my first comment.

I will say this though.  What you are looking at isn't an independent film, it is a documentary.  It is also unfunded.  The trailer is there to try to get people to donate.  I see nothing wrong with that, but this is a long way from being a viable project.  omp spent a lot of money on "Shut Up and Model" and it never went anywhere.  I doubted them from the moment the showed me the screen treatment.  It is one thing to shoot a video, it is another to get someone to distribute it.

TREATMENT

Boobies   porn = Next Big Hit

Oct 25 12 08:30 am Link

Photographer

VisiFoto

Posts: 501

Knoxville, Tennessee, US

Paige Morgan wrote:
It would be far more interesting if it compared and contrasted the various segments of internet model....maybe have one agency aspiring girl with fashion stats (something the mainstream is familiar with), one popular/successful glamour model (same idea, think a FHM/Maxim/Foreign edition of playboy type), a well known alt/fetish model(A Raquel Reed or a Mosh type career arc) and a well booking art nude model, who's name most folks wouldn't know, but have most likely seen their work in a gallery etc.

As it stands, I find its audience limited for the reasons I stated in the previous post.

DEMOGRAPHICS

Boobies + Porn = Guys Without Cameras

Non-photog friends, and photogs who never shot nudes, are EXTREMELY impressed when I show or tell my MM 2nd Life (hanging out with nekkid Penthouse pets in their hotel rooms). Frankly, they can't quite believe my port is true, so I have to keep an SD card handy to show my photos in camera. They do admit they are jealous, and these are successful professionals not drunken losers.

I suspect this movie will tap into that psychographic.

Even if it goes straight to DVD it will be a success, since the overhead looks relatively low. As long as the producer doesn't get greedy or go nuts with his credit card.

Oct 25 12 08:31 am Link

Photographer

M Pandolfo Photography

Posts: 12116

Tampa, Florida, US

Paramour Productions wrote:
I agree with Paige and ei...

Done some doc work.  For a mainstream audience you need conflict.  The kind of conflict that would piss most here off.  Start out light, turn dark and toss in a bit of "redemption" toward the end while still allowing the audience to be "concerned" when it's over... 

Make sure there's some drug abuse, show the few guys who've gone to jail, take a model who is serious and, without her knowledge (while it's being made) position her as a ludicrous hopeful wannabe that the audience will both ridicule and feel sorry for at the same time...  Make sure to throw in some domestic issues while at the same time showing an "alternative lifestyle" couple that seems to make it work, even though everyone "just knows" they're "freaks".  All of that sort of stuff.   

That's how you make it a mainstream documentary.  Without any real conflict, it's going nowhere.  May not be right, but it's true.

I'll watch your film.

I couldn't help watching that trailer and thinking, what is the point? A photographer pays a model to take images, they play dress up, and nobody uses the photos for anything other than some illusion (or delusion) that they're working as models and photographers.

Oct 25 12 08:33 am Link

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Photographer

Giacomo Cirrincioni

Posts: 21473

New York, New York, US

Paige Morgan wrote:
It would be far more interesting if it compared and contrasted the various segments of internet model....maybe have one agency aspiring girl with fashion stats (something the mainstream is familiar with), one popular/successful glamour model (same idea, think a FHM/Maxim/Foreign edition of playboy type), a well known alt/fetish model(A Raquel Reed or a Mosh type career arc) and a well booking art nude model, who's name most folks wouldn't know, but have most likely seen their work in a gallery etc.

As it stands, I find its audience limited for the reasons I stated in the previous post.

Yep.

To that I would add, one brand new girl, whose experience is documented over several months.   The interweaving story lines which follow an over all arc is critical - and actually quite hard to do well.  You need an editor who has a lot of experience in the genre.  I direct and shoot and edit a bit, but I would NEVER edit something like this myself.  It would be like performing surgery on yourself.

Oct 25 12 08:39 am Link

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Photographer

Giacomo Cirrincioni

Posts: 21473

New York, New York, US

Michael Pandolfo wrote:

I'll watch your film.

I couldn't help watching that trailer and thinking, what is the point? A photographer pays a model to take images, they play dress up, and nobody uses the photos for anything other than some illusion (or delusion) that they're working as models and photographers.

LOL, thanks.  I've actually thought about it, but it would be a very large undertaking and I'd need to raise in the low six figures to do it right.  The money isn't as insurmountable as the time it would take.  I may revisit the idea in a few months, as I can source funding.  The upside is, I have all the production resources needed to film, edit and grade the footage, and have access to a post-production audio house to do the mix.  We'll see.  I'm slated to direct a short film in the spring.  After that who knows.

Oct 25 12 08:45 am Link

Photographer

VisiFoto

Posts: 501

Knoxville, Tennessee, US

Michael Pandolfo wrote:
I'll watch your film.

I couldn't help watching that trailer and thinking, what is the point? A photographer pays a model to take images, they play dress up, and nobody uses the photos for anything other than some illusion (or delusion) that they're working as models and photographers.

Why do people do anything if they're not a paid professional?

I've seen people spend $250,000/year playing an amateur sport (in 1980s dollars), just for a shot at hopefully someday going "pro". These are very smart people who work extremely hard at their "hobby", and after years of experience become extremely talented, perhaps better than most "pros".

Why do college athletes risk life and limb (and permanent disability or death) to play a sport for sub-minimum wage? Some go pro and get rich, 99% get a real job after they graduate.

From what I've seen of MM, it falls into that category. Except some MM models earn nearly $100k/yr gross.

This movie appears to tell that side of the story, with boobie$.

Oct 25 12 08:49 am Link