Forums > Off-Topic Discussion > Plastic Surgery & Modeling

Photographer

Mad Hatter Imagery

Posts: 1345

Buffalo, New York, US

Should mainstream photographers photograph women who have breast implants or facial plastic surgeries for common and general commercial photography? When it comes to pornography it seems fine because that is designed around fantasy and basically the selling of the person themselves, and is clearly not designed to be the way the girl next door looks. Meanwhile photography of a more artistic nature is either about the true human form or about expressing a point of view on something. My concern is people might become more attracted to women (or men) with fake features that don't represent humanity when they see common advertisements. Of course there is also photoshopping, but that usually is for removing complexion flaws and increasing sizes, but not altering as much natural shapes. any thoughts on this?

Nov 12 12 11:19 am Link

Photographer

Piscis Noctis

Posts: 11049

San Diego, California, US

How about makeup ?
shall we ban make up too ?
you know, false impressions and all that smile

Nov 12 12 11:22 am Link

Photographer

FootNote Fotography

Posts: 18809

Seoul, Seoul, Korea (South)

Mad Hatter Imagery wrote:
Should mainstream photographers photograph women who have breast implants or facial plastic surgeries for common and general commercial photography? When it comes to pornography it seems fine because that is designed around fantasy and basically the selling of the person themselves, and is clearly not designed to be the way the girl next door looks. Meanwhile photography of a more artistic nature is either about the true human form or about expressing a point of view on something. My concern is people might become more attracted to women (or men) with fake features that don't represent humanity when they see common advertisements. Of course there is also photoshopping, but that usually is for removing complexion flaws and increasing sizes, but not altering as much natural shapes. any thoughts on this?

What a woman does with her body is her own business. Should we shame them by tell them we wont photo them because they alter their own bodes?

Nov 12 12 11:22 am Link

Photographer

Gianantonio

Posts: 8134

Minneapolis, Minnesota, US

Mad Hatter Imagery wrote:
Should mainstream photographers photograph women who have breast implants or facial plastic surgeries for common and general commercial photography? When it comes to pornography it seems fine because that is designed around fantasy and basically the selling of the person themselves, and is clearly not designed to be the way the girl next door looks. Meanwhile photography of a more artistic nature is either about the true human form or about expressing a point of view on something. My concern is people might become more attracted to women (or men) with fake features that don't represent humanity when they see common advertisements. Of course there is also photoshopping, but that usually is for removing complexion flaws and increasing sizes, but not altering as much natural shapes. any thoughts on this?

I think you are naive as to how Photoshop is used...

Nov 12 12 11:23 am Link

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Model

Anna Adrielle

Posts: 18763

Antwerp, Antwerp, Belgium

Mad Hatter Imagery wrote:
Should mainstream photographers photograph women who have breast implants or facial plastic surgeries for common and general commercial photography? When it comes to pornography it seems fine because that is designed around fantasy and basically the selling of the person themselves, and is clearly not designed to be the way the girl next door looks. Meanwhile photography of a more artistic nature is either about the true human form or about expressing a point of view on something. My concern is people might become more attracted to women (or men) with fake features that don't represent humanity when they see common advertisements. Of course there is also photoshopping, but that usually is for removing complexion flaws and increasing sizes, but not altering as much natural shapes. any thoughts on this?

couple of thoughts...

-pornography is not about selling the person themselves.
- pornstars also live next door to someone. pornstars, like women and people in generalm come in all shapes and sizes.
-fake boobs are still human boobs. why would they not represent humanity?
-photoshopping is definitely also used to alter naturel shapes, don't kid yourself

that's all.

Nov 12 12 11:28 am Link

Photographer

In Balance Photography

Posts: 3372

Boston, Massachusetts, US

Mad Hatter Imagery wrote:
Should mainstream photographers photograph women who have breast implants or facial plastic surgeries for common and general commercial photography? When it comes to pornography it seems fine because that is designed around fantasy and basically the selling of the person themselves, and is clearly not designed to be the way the girl next door looks. Meanwhile photography of a more artistic nature is either about the true human form or about expressing a point of view on something. My concern is people might become more attracted to women (or men) with fake features that don't represent humanity when they see common advertisements. Of course there is also photoshopping, but that usually is for removing complexion flaws and increasing sizes, but not altering as much natural shapes. any thoughts on this?

1. Yes
2. Let's say that people become more attracted to distorted images of reality (like that doesn't happen already). So what? The situation will self correct.

Nov 12 12 11:28 am Link

Photographer

Jay Edwards

Posts: 18616

Fort Lauderdale, Florida, US

Piscis Noctis wrote:
How about makeup ?
shall we ban make up too ?
you know, false impressions and all that smile

heehee

Nov 12 12 12:48 pm Link

Model

Tracii Taylor

Posts: 2184

Bordentown, New Jersey, US

Oh, this outta be good.

Nov 12 12 12:57 pm Link

Photographer

Vector 38

Posts: 8296

Austin, Texas, US

Mad Hatter Imagery wrote:
Should mainstream photographers photograph women who have breast implants or facial plastic surgeries for common and general commercial photography?

is there any current legislation forbidding that choice? what if the surgery was restorative, following, say, an accident? too, has a single definition of "mainstream" been established for photography?

Mad Hatter Imagery wrote:
photography of a more artistic nature is either about the true human form or about expressing a point of view on something.

this, of course, is your opinion, one not necessarily espoused by anyone/everyone else.

Nov 12 12 01:39 pm Link

Model

-Jen-

Posts: 46851

Howell, Michigan, US

Mad Hatter Imagery wrote:
Should mainstream photographers photograph women who have breast implants or facial plastic surgeries for common and general commercial photography? When it comes to pornography it seems fine because that is designed around fantasy and basically the selling of the person themselves, and is clearly not designed to be the way the girl next door looks. Meanwhile photography of a more artistic nature is either about the true human form or about expressing a point of view on something. My concern is people might become more attracted to women (or men) with fake features that don't represent humanity when they see common advertisements. Of course there is also photoshopping, but that usually is for removing complexion flaws and increasing sizes, but not altering as much natural shapes. any thoughts on this?

So are you saying that me, because I have fake boobs, that I don't represent humanity?  Bullshit.  I'm no different...except that my boobs are bigger.  If you didnt see my boobs in my pics on here you wouldnt know my boobs are fake.  You'd see me in a sweater and not think twice that they might be augmented.

I'm still human....  I'm a daughter, a sister, a mother (of 3).  I'm still me, even tho I fill bra cups out better now than before. 

Your opinion on what photographers should photograph has no bearing on what they actually want to photograph.  Its not really up to you, or anyone else but themselves.

Nov 12 12 01:58 pm Link

Model

Isis22

Posts: 2950

Muncie, Indiana, US

I need popcorn:)

Nov 12 12 02:03 pm Link

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Model

Koryn

Posts: 37162

Boston, Massachusetts, US

Mad Hatter Imagery wrote:
My concern is people might become more attracted to women (or men) with fake features that don't represent humanity when they see common advertisements.

Hate to break it to you, but that's already been happening for the past 20 years - at least.


but... um... people with nose-jobs are humans too...

Nov 12 12 03:10 pm Link

Model

Russian Katarina II

Posts: 2515

London, England, United Kingdom

-Jen- wrote:

So are you saying that me, because I have fake boobs, that I don't represent humanity?  Bullshit.  I'm no different...except that my boobs are bigger.  If you didnt see my boobs in my pics on here you wouldnt know my boobs are fake.  You'd see me in a sweater and not think twice that they might be augmented.

I'm still human....  I'm a daughter, a sister, a mother (of 3).  I'm still me, even tho I fill bra cups out better now than before. 

Your opinion on what photographers should photograph has no bearing on what they actually want to photograph.  Its not really up to you, or anyone else but themselves.

I don't see the big difference between getting your boobs fixed (which lots of people have an issue with) and getting your teeth fixed (which no one has an issue with) either.

People are very arbitrary and hypocritical when it comes to issues like these.

Nov 12 12 03:33 pm Link

Photographer

Mad Hatter Imagery

Posts: 1345

Buffalo, New York, US

Piscis Noctis wrote:
How about makeup ?
shall we ban make up too ?
you know, false impressions and all that smile

makeup and photoshop are in the same boat. Real women use makeup and they take off makeup, but they are not considered to be altering their anatomy.

Nov 12 12 03:36 pm Link

Model

Russian Katarina II

Posts: 2515

London, England, United Kingdom

ShivaKitty wrote:

Hate to break it to you, but that's already been happening for the past 20 years - at least.


but... um... people with nose-jobs are humans too...

The first plastic surgery dates back at least 4000 years. 2800 years ago, the Indians first utilized skin grafts for reconstructive purposes. It's been around longer than most people believe.

Nov 12 12 03:38 pm Link

Photographer

Mad Hatter Imagery

Posts: 1345

Buffalo, New York, US

Anna Adrielle wrote:

couple of thoughts...

-pornography is not about selling the person themselves.
- pornstars also live next door to someone. pornstars, like women and people in generalm come in all shapes and sizes.
-fake boobs are still human boobs. why would they not represent humanity?
-photoshopping is definitely also used to alter naturel shapes, don't kid yourself

that's all.

I know porn stars are not actually sold personally. But it is their personal expressions that are sold and represented in photos, but they are not selling someone else's ideas or a product. They are selling only the idea of carnal thoughts of themselves. lol. And yes photoshop can alter shapes, but if you found the model of the shape you were looking for you shouldn't need to. Fake boobs are surreal. They do not represent what genetics makes of people, which is what I mean by humanity.

Nov 12 12 03:40 pm Link

Photographer

Mad Hatter Imagery

Posts: 1345

Buffalo, New York, US

Vector 38 wrote:
is there any current legislation forbidding that choice? what if the surgery was restorative, following, say, an accident?

In the case of reconstructive surgery not done out of vanity I can see exception for.

Nov 12 12 03:42 pm Link

Model

Russian Katarina II

Posts: 2515

London, England, United Kingdom

Mad Hatter Imagery wrote:

I know porn stars are not actually sold personally. But it is their personal expressions that are sold and represented in photos, but they are not selling someone else's ideas or a product. They are selling only the idea of carnal thoughts of themselves. lol. And yes photoshop can alter shapes, but if you found the model of the shape you were looking for you shouldn't need to. Fake boobs are surreal. They do not represent what genetics makes of people, which is what I mean by humanity.

Many fashion models have fake boobs, you just don't notice it because they're B cups and not Pamela Anderson-sized hooters.

Nov 12 12 03:44 pm Link

Photographer

Mad Hatter Imagery

Posts: 1345

Buffalo, New York, US

-Jen- wrote:
So are you saying that me, because I have fake boobs, that I don't represent humanity?  Bullshit.  I'm no different...except that my boobs are bigger.  If you didnt see my boobs in my pics on here you wouldnt know my boobs are fake.  You'd see me in a sweater and not think twice that they might be augmented.

I'm still human....  I'm a daughter, a sister, a mother (of 3).  I'm still me, even tho I fill bra cups out better now than before. 

Your opinion on what photographers should photograph has no bearing on what they actually want to photograph.  Its not really up to you, or anyone else but themselves.

I have full confidence that you are a real human being with real thoughts and opinions. lol. However I tend to worry that artificial forms of beauty is bad for the self-image of all, not matter how good ones surgeon is. lol.

Nov 12 12 03:45 pm Link

Photographer

Mad Hatter Imagery

Posts: 1345

Buffalo, New York, US

Katarina N. wrote:

Many fashion models have fake boobs, you just don't notice it because they're B cups and not Pamela Anderson-sized hooters.

Changes of the status quo can be subtle, which is why it is my concern today. Kind of like how Americans who have some of the most advanced technologies for agriculture still manage to be fat and lazy. lol.

Nov 12 12 03:49 pm Link

Photographer

Mad Hatter Imagery

Posts: 1345

Buffalo, New York, US

-Jen- wrote:
If you didnt see my boobs in my pics on here you wouldnt know my boobs are fake.  You'd see me in a sweater and not think twice that they might be augmented.

Perhaps you're right concerning wearing a sweater. But they don't look real in the topless ones.

Nov 12 12 03:52 pm Link

Model

Tracii Taylor

Posts: 2184

Bordentown, New Jersey, US

I'm wondering, what's your position on television & movie stars getting plastic surgery?

Nov 12 12 03:52 pm Link

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Model

Koryn

Posts: 37162

Boston, Massachusetts, US

Mad Hatter Imagery wrote:
Fake boobs are surreal.

Not all of them. Some of them look very natural. I worked in strip clubs for three years, and interacted with a number of women whose boob-jobs were so natural-looking, I had no idea until they told me.

Mad Hatter Imagery wrote:
They do not represent what genetics makes of people, which is what I mean by humanity.

What about people who just naturally have features that appear augmented? Would that not be the same quandary?

As I mentioned above, I was a stripper for a long time (and still strip occasionally), and people ask me ALL THE TIME ... at least a few days every week, sometimes multiple times in a day .... if my ass was/is real. For whatever reason, my ass doesn't look "real" to people. They think I get silicone injections in it; I don't. That's fine, whatever, but the fact is that these are my genetics. I have a tiny waist and a comparatively big, round ass.

Just because my body-shape isn't common, and appears surreal to some people, does that make it not represent humanity?

There ARE people who just have odd body-types --- whether those body types are the ones they were born with, or not. The fact is that the people who augment surgically to get those body-types are still mimicking a "natural" body type they've seen somewhere, at some point, and liked.

Nov 12 12 03:53 pm Link

Model

Russian Katarina II

Posts: 2515

London, England, United Kingdom

Mad Hatter Imagery wrote:

Changes of the status quo can be subtle, which is why it is my concern today. Kind of like how Americans who have some of the most advanced technologies for agriculture still manage to be fat and lazy. lol.

The really giant fake boobs are already out of style. Even Playboy seems to go back to more natural looking Playmates these days. Plus plastic surgery has advanced considerably in the last decades and a natural look is more easily achieved.

Looks like you're late to that party.

Nov 12 12 03:53 pm Link

Model

Tracii Taylor

Posts: 2184

Bordentown, New Jersey, US

Mad Hatter Imagery wrote:

I know porn stars are not actually sold personally. But it is their personal expressions that are sold and represented in photos, but they are not selling someone else's ideas or a product. They are selling only the idea of carnal thoughts of themselves. lol. And yes photoshop can alter shapes, but if you found the model of the shape you were looking for you shouldn't need to. Fake boobs are surreal. They do not represent what genetics makes of people, which is what I mean by humanity.

.....
I totally disagree.  The woman that shows up on set & gets her hair done, makeup put on, outfitted in high heels & provocative clothing, then says lines that were written by someone else & 9 times out of 10 has a stage name is most likely not the woman she is when she is not working.  Most performers will tell you this regardless if they work in porn or not.  She sure is selling someone else's ideas & product.

Nov 12 12 04:05 pm Link

Photographer

Vector 38

Posts: 8296

Austin, Texas, US

Vector 38 wrote:
is there any current legislation forbidding that choice? what if the surgery was restorative, following, say, an accident?

Mad Hatter Imagery wrote:
In the case of reconstructive surgery not done out of vanity I can see exception for.

perhaps you can explain under what circumstances you would allow yourself as a photographer to pry into the personal (confidential) medical history of a client ... ?

Nov 12 12 04:11 pm Link

Photographer

Mad Hatter Imagery

Posts: 1345

Buffalo, New York, US

Tracii Taylor wrote:
I'm wondering, what's your position on television & movie stars getting plastic surgery?

I don't much care for it in those cases either, but than again they are actors and their career should reply more heavily on their dialog and emotional representation than their appearance. Some of the best actors in my opinion are character actors, and generally speaking they are very average looking people. Which is a good thing.

Nov 12 12 05:48 pm Link

Photographer

Mad Hatter Imagery

Posts: 1345

Buffalo, New York, US

ShivaKitty wrote:
As I mentioned above, I was a stripper for a long time (and still strip occasionally), and people ask me ALL THE TIME ... at least a few days every week, sometimes multiple times in a day .... if my ass was/is real. For whatever reason, my ass doesn't look "real" to people. They think I get silicone injections in it; I don't. That's fine, whatever, but the fact is that these are my genetics. I have a tiny waist and a comparatively big, round ass.

Perhaps in a strip club one might expect that everyone has plastic features? Those that go to clubs often probably already have misperceptions of what look real versus fake. Strangely enough one dancer (hers were real by the way) told me that in the adult industry fake boobs were actually becoming less popular at that time.

Nov 12 12 05:52 pm Link

Photographer

Mad Hatter Imagery

Posts: 1345

Buffalo, New York, US

Katarina N. wrote:

The really giant fake boobs are already out of style. Even Playboy seems to go back to more natural looking Playmates these days. Plus plastic surgery has advanced considerably in the last decades and a natural look is more easily achieved.

Looks like you're late to that party.

Most guys if they are at liberty to stare can tell if boobs are real or fake if they are told that they might be fake. No matter how much of an artistian the surgeon might be. lol. And of course the risk of leaking is still there.

Nov 12 12 05:54 pm Link

Photographer

Mad Hatter Imagery

Posts: 1345

Buffalo, New York, US

Vector 38 wrote:

Vector 38 wrote:
is there any current legislation forbidding that choice? what if the surgery was restorative, following, say, an accident?

perhaps you can explain under what circumstances you would allow yourself as a photographer to pry into the personal (confidential) medical history of a client ... ?

I would never have to pry into anyone's personal business. I could just look at their work. lol. As for someone's comments earlier about teeth and boobs jobs being related I have to say that teeth play a health function in people's life. Perhaps teeth whitening isn't needed, but general cleaning is a plus. smile Any additional whitening can be done in post.

Nov 12 12 05:57 pm Link

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Model

Koryn

Posts: 37162

Boston, Massachusetts, US

Mad Hatter Imagery wrote:

Perhaps in a strip club one might expect that everyone has plastic features? Those that go to clubs often probably already have misperceptions of what look real versus fake. Strangely enough one dancer (hers were real by the way) told me that in the adult industry fake boobs were actually becoming less popular at that time.

That wasn't what I was asking, but okie dokie...

Nov 12 12 05:58 pm Link

Model

Isis22

Posts: 2950

Muncie, Indiana, US

Why ask a question if you have already decided? It sounds like you are already the judge and jury.

Nov 12 12 06:21 pm Link

Model

-Jen-

Posts: 46851

Howell, Michigan, US

Mad Hatter Imagery wrote:

I have full confidence that you are a real human being with real thoughts and opinions. lol. However I tend to worry that artificial forms of beauty is bad for the self-image of all, not matter how good ones surgeon is. lol.

Who are you to judge me...or anyone for that matter? 

Your opinion is yours only. You can't force your opinions or beliefs on anyone. 

So...no artificial forms of beauty?  Then I suggest you stop shaving your face, going to the dentist, cause doing anything like that is a form or "beauty".
But, because that's your beliefs you go do that. I'm going to stick with my fake tits, make up, nice teeth, nice hair and do things MY WAY. Because I can!

Oh and I never asked you of you thought my boobs looks fake. I made a simple comment about them that didn't need your unsolicited critique on if they look real or fake.

Nov 12 12 07:20 pm Link

Photographer

255 West

Posts: 6468

New York, New York, US

Piscis Noctis wrote:
How about makeup ?
shall we ban make up too ?
you know, false impressions and all that smile

I think that's called "the slippery slope argument".

It's like saying :"First we ban assault rifles, then what's next, banning baseball bats?"

Nov 13 12 01:20 am Link

Model

Sirensong

Posts: 2173

Cardiff, Wales, United Kingdom

Mad Hatter Imagery wrote:
Should mainstream photographers photograph women who have breast implants or facial plastic surgeries for common and general commercial photography? When it comes to pornography it seems fine because that is designed around fantasy and basically the selling of the person themselves, and is clearly not designed to be the way the girl next door looks. Meanwhile photography of a more artistic nature is either about the true human form or about expressing a point of view on something. My concern is people might become more attracted to women (or men) with fake features that don't represent humanity when they see common advertisements. Of course there is also photoshopping, but that usually is for removing complexion flaws and increasing sizes, but not altering as much natural shapes. any thoughts on this?

Nov 13 12 01:37 am Link

Model

ChaiNoir

Posts: 345

Adelaide, South Australia, Australia

OOooooooooo this is getting heated. Phwoarrr

Nov 13 12 01:58 am Link

Model

Deadlymoonshade

Posts: 3

Fredonia, New York, US

I think people in general need to be happier with themselves and who they are. getting implants for self esteem just seems stupid to me. Why women pay so much money so men look at them is beyond me. And please don't compare getting a couple thousand dollars in surgery for fake tits to putting on concealer to cover up scares. Two different ends of a long f'in stick. Our culture is getting way to out of touch for itself, the fact "all black people look alike" is partially due to the fact everyone tries to dress the same, act the same , and pretty much be the same as everyone in their group. What the hell is wrong with being yourself? It's sad people just cant be happy with what they have.

Nov 13 12 05:49 pm Link

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Model

Koryn

Posts: 37162

Boston, Massachusetts, US

Deadlymoonshade wrote:
And please don't compare getting a couple thousand dollars in surgery for fake tits to putting on concealer to cover up scares.

I would be frightened to see a boob job that only cost $2,000.

Deadlymoonshade wrote:
Our culture is getting way to out of touch for itself, the fact "all black people look alike" is partially due to the fact everyone tries to dress the same, act the same , and pretty much be the same as everyone in their group.

...wait.... what?...

Nov 13 12 05:54 pm Link

Model

Fifi

Posts: 58134

Annapolis, Maryland, US

Using you (ridiculously failed) logic, the majority of Hollywood shouldn't be allowed to be photographed for public consumption

You'd be hard pressed to find an original face out there.

Nov 13 12 06:35 pm Link

Model

Fifi

Posts: 58134

Annapolis, Maryland, US

Deadlymoonshade wrote:
I think people in general need to be happier with themselves and who they are. getting implants for self esteem just seems stupid to me. Why women pay so much money so men look at them is beyond me. And please don't compare getting a couple thousand dollars in surgery for fake tits to putting on concealer to cover up scares. Two different ends of a long f'in stick. Our culture is getting way to out of touch for itself, the fact "all black people look alike" is partially due to the fact everyone tries to dress the same, act the same , and pretty much be the same as everyone in their group. What the hell is wrong with being yourself? It's sad people just cant be happy with what they have.

What in the actual fuck is wrong with you?!

Nov 13 12 06:36 pm Link