Christopher Trento wrote:
Ok I need help from people who aren't programers and web designers by day. I've been trying to learn and figure out Wordpress for over a month (something I didn't "think" I would need to do based on all other posts I've read). I'm using Wordpress.org (not .com). What I've found are templates (or themes) that claim to be highly customizable (a very relative term) that turn out to mean you can change a background color and font size... Yippee!! I'm feeling like a guy who went to the car dealer and they said here's a car for free, but you need a plugins if you want the wheels to turn, and the radio to work. You need a widgets if you want to windows to go down and the horn to blow oh and btw, there's 843,000 developers that supply said plugins and widgets, go find yourself some. I really hope I'm missing something because I feel like I had more control with the built in web design program that came with my first grape imac 15 years ago!

Please help!

My company builds Wordpress sites so I should be able to give you some pointers.

What is it you are trying to do and why did chose to use Wordpress?

Christopher Trento wrote:
I looked into Wordpress, Joomla and Drupal. From what I understood, Wordpress seemed to be the easiest to setup and manage. My goal is to setup a responsive site. It just seems that using a CMS is much more limiting than I thought vs building something in say, Dreamweaver.

Are you going to use the site to show your photography or video?
To show your writing or personal projects?

Making a responsive site is easy but you need to think about what you need it to achieve before you start.

Christopher Trento wrote:
I looked into Wordpress, Joomla and Drupal. From what I understood, Wordpress seemed to be the easiest to setup and manage. My goal is to setup a responsive site. It just seems that using a CMS is much more limiting than I thought vs building something in say, Dreamweaver.

I used to use Dreamweaver a lot until I discovered Joomla. I love being able to easily create and add content without having to open up Dreamweaver and upload. But probably one of the biggest things that keeps me here is the ability to make changes site-wide with just a few clicks.

An example would be adding a menu item. I always found myself having to go through and add it to each and every page individually in Dreamweaver. Although I'm sure there's an easier way than how I was doing it, I just could never figure it out.

Christopher Trento wrote:
I looked into Wordpress, Joomla and Drupal. From what I understood, Wordpress seemed to be the easiest to setup and manage. My goal is to setup a responsive site. It just seems that using a CMS is much more limiting than I thought vs building something in say, Dreamweaver.

Using Wordpress versus Dreamweaver or hand-written code involves tradeoffs. You give up a little bit of control over the design by using Wordpress, but you gain the ability to just enter content.

In order to get the right theme for your site, you need to spend way more time researching themes to use as opposed to getting stuck on tinkering with one particular theme and making yourself crazy.

I just ran across a responsive theme that I might try soon and it looks good for photography.

"Hero" theme
http://themetrust.com/themes

PicBack wrote:
Are you going to use the site to show your photography or video?
To show your writing or personal projects?

Making a responsive site is easy but you need to think about what you need it to achieve before you start.

Naturally I'll be showing my photography (and maybe video). I'll have a few galleries (not sure how I want them displayed, that seems to depend on the theme, widget/plugin combination). An email form would be nice. The main thing I want, is not to have to know everything I want before I start! I understand your question, but I think most would agree, it's nice to be able to grow and change your mind without having to scrap your current site because you didn't factor this or that.

John Jebbia wrote:
What do you guys mean by "responsive"?

A website that displays well on a desktop computer and also mobile phones and tablets. Follow that link I just gave and check out the "Hero" theme and you'll get an idea. Then view it on your smartphone.

RP Nudes wrote:
A website that displays well on a desktop computer and also mobile phones and tablets. Follow that link I just gave and check out the "Hero" theme and you'll get an idea. Then view it on your smartphone.

Just checked it. Thanks!

John Jebbia wrote:
What do you guys mean by "responsive"?

It is a site that responds to what site screen you are looking at it on.
A full sized computer screen will show the site how you want. As it will an iPad screen, an iPhone screen and so on.
If you open this site on a regular computer then make the browser window small you can see what I mean - http://picback.com

Christopher Trento wrote:

Naturally I'll be showing my photography (and maybe video). I'll have a few galleries (not sure how I want them displayed, that seems to depend on the theme, widget/plugin combination). An email form would be nice. The main thing I want, is not to have to know everything I want before I start! I understand your question, but I think most would agree, it's nice to be able to grow and change your mind without having to scrap your current site because you didn't factor this or that.

While themes are free or cheap to buy, working out what they can do takes time. I have tried and tested a whole bunch so have an idea of can be done. If you start with something well made on the back end then making it look good on the front is just a matter of design.

Do you want to post up your site so I can give a couple of pointers?

RP Nudes wrote:
Using Wordpress versus Dreamweaver or hand-written code involves tradeoffs. You give up a little bit of control over the design by using Wordpress, but you gain the ability to just enter content.

In order to get the right theme for your site, you need to spend way more time researching themes to use as opposed to getting stuck on tinkering with one particular theme and making yourself crazy.

I just ran across a responsive theme that I might try soon and it looks good for photography.

"Hero" theme
http://themetrust.com/themes

Thanks much, I'll look into those.

PicBack wrote:
While themes are free or cheap to buy, working out what they can do takes time. I have tried and tested a whole bunch so have an idea of can be done. If you start with something well made on the back end then making it look good on the front is just a matter of design.

Do you want to post up your site so I can give a couple of pointers?

What you say makes sense. I've downloaded several free themes and have had a hard time making them look how I would like. One that I actually really loved was http://jinsonathemes.com/fabs/?themedemo=Shutter-shot. Seems that you do need to go into the code editor to replace the "Shuttershot logo" with your own (someone doesn't want that happening apparently lol). Though the Parent Page link shows drop down sublinks, I can't for the life of me figure how to get them. the download version doesn't actually have them there to just change.

http://www.elegantthemes.com/demo/?theme=Gleam is another one I like that you pay to get and I'm fine with that. I just feel like I could start paying for lots of them only to then find that they're not customizable enough. As for my site, there's no pointers to give as I still have my old primitive dreamweaver site up lol.

Christopher Trento wrote:
Ok I need help from people who aren't programers and web designers by day. I've been trying to learn and figure out Wordpress for over a month (something I didn't "think" I would need to do based on all other posts I've read). I'm using Wordpress.org (not .com). What I've found are templates (or themes) that claim to be highly customizable (a very relative term) that turn out to mean you can change a background color and font size... Yippee!! I'm feeling like a guy who went to the car dealer and they said here's a car for free, but you need a plugins if you want the wheels to turn, and the radio to work. You need a widgets if you want to windows to go down and the horn to blow oh and btw, there's 843,000 developers that supply said plugins and widgets, go find yourself some. I really hope I'm missing something because I feel like I had more control with the built in web design program that came with my first grape imac 15 years ago!

Please help!

Its really not all that complicated. Every single WordPress Theme is completely customizeable, some allow for "some" customization using built in menus like what you said changing the background and font, but in order to customize most of them you need some understanding of html, css, and php.

My suggestion for you would be to checkout themeforest.net and buy a 30$ to $50 theme that you like. Most of those come with a lot of built in customization(more than just the background and font), and many gallery templates.

William Kious wrote:
Unless you are relatively familiar (I.e., you can basically program) with MySQL and PHP, there is absolutely NOTHING friendly about customizing Wordpress.

Sorry, But I call BS on that one. Wordpress Theme customization requires 0 MySQL knowledge, only time that is needed is when you are writing a plugin or widget completely from scratch - or changing come piece of the core WP database.

PHP knowledge is barely required to be honest. I cannot write PHP code from scratch myself, I do not know enough of it. But I am able to completely customize almost any Wordpress Theme. Why? Because I am familiar with common Wordpress PHP tags and its basic uses.

William Kious wrote:
Unless you are relatively familiar (I.e., you can basically program) with MySQL and PHP, there is absolutely NOTHING friendly about customizing Wordpress. You also need to know a fair amount about working with CSS's and HTML.

Anyone who says it's easy and "no big deal", is coming from a background in those languages.

See this is how I feel!

AM Photography wrote:
Sorry, But I call BS on that one. Wordpress Theme customization requires 0 MySQL knowledge, only time that is needed is when you are writing a plugin or widget completely from scratch - or changing come piece of the core WP database.

PHP knowledge is barely required to be honest. I cannot write PHP code from scratch myself, I do not know enough of it. But I am able to completely customize almost any Wordpress Theme. Why? Because I am familiar with common Wordpress PHP tags and its basic uses.

This is the problem/misconception, there's a HUGE amount of Worpress promotion out there about how easy it is to use. If you're a sheep and want to follow and have a cookie cutter site that looks like every blog, then you're golden. If you're a photographer, landscaper, small store owner or anyone that doesn't know about any sort of code writing, you need a WYSIWYG. Otherwise, people could just as well stick with using programs like Dreamweaver.

William Kious wrote:
Unless you are relatively familiar (I.e., you can basically program) with MySQL and PHP, there is absolutely NOTHING friendly about customizing Wordpress. You also need to know a fair amount about working with CSS's and HTML.

Anyone who says it's easy and "no big deal", is coming from a background in those languages.

+100

Also, keep in mind that ALMOST ALL THE FREE PLUGINS will have zero technical support/help if you are stranded with a problem. To resolve the issues, you will end up spending hours after hours looking through forums with varying answers, and at the end, not finding any useful workable solutions. You will end up dumping the plugin and go in search of another plugin that does the same thing - a few more hours of search online!

AGAIN: I am not saying ALL of them are trouble some, but if you get in a troubling situation you will have a tought time resolving it yourself.

Even if you are willing to put the time into learning the basics of CSS and PHP, it will be weeks before you figure out which files contain which elements of your site!

Documentation in any open source platform is still a long way from being useful to anyone who is new to the platforms.

p.s.: By the way, I design, develop and host websites too. I have used wordpress and Joomla and still continue to implement new Joomla installations, but not Wordpress. I can customize to a good degree, but that's after a plentitude of trials and errors.

Christopher Trento wrote:

See this is how I feel!


This is the problem/misconception, there's a HUGE amount of Worpress promotion out there about how easy it is to use. If you're a sheep and want to follow and have a cookie cutter site that looks like every blog, then you're golden. If you're a photographer, landscaper, small store owner or anyone that doesn't know about any sort of code writing, you need a WYSIWYG. Otherwise, people could just as well stick with using programs like Dreamweaver.

There's your problem Chris. You want two things that are at odds with one another. You want ease of use and also a level of customization beyond what Wordpress themes generally offer. It also seems like you're unwilling to settle on a layout or design and run with it, instead wanting the option to change your mind mid-development.

Wordpress is easy to use if you use the basic vanilla setup and a theme that you don't have to customize too much.

Wordpress is indeed difficult to work with if you want to customize every part of a theme.

I am a web designer and hand-code HTML and CSS. I know very little PHP. I use Wordpress for the majority of my clients because it's a very good blank canvas to start with.

You're only displaying pictures and video. That's pretty straight-forward. Why don't you use the "Hero" theme for 6 months and then decide on changes? If you can't make up your mind about the layout of your pages, you'll never get a site done no matter what theme or software you use.

John Jebbia wrote:
I use Joomla rather than Wordpress. I've tried both, but find myself always coming back to Joomla. Rather than buying a pre-made template, I purchased a program called Artisteer. It VERY easily creates templates for both Joomla and Wordpress sites and gives you the power to customize them to your liking. It's one program I highly recommend when working with Wordpress or Joomla.

http://www.artisteer.com

There's also a ton of tutorials on Youtube so you can quickly learn the ins and outs.

Artisteer Rocks, but may be a bit much for someone new to wordpress/Joomla, etc.

RP Nudes wrote:
There's your problem Chris. You want two things that are at odds with one another. You want ease of use and also a level of customization beyond what Wordpress themes generally offer. It also seems like you're unwilling to settle on a layout or design and run with it, instead wanting the option to change your mind mid-development.

Wordpress is easy to use if you use the basic vanilla setup and a theme that you don't have to customize too much.

Wordpress is indeed difficult to work with if you want to customize every part of a theme.

I am a web designer and hand-code HTML and CSS. I know very little PHP. I use Wordpress for the majority of my clients because it's a very good blank canvas to start with.

You're only displaying pictures and video. That's pretty straight-forward. Why don't you use the "Hero" theme for 6 months and then decide on changes? If you can't make up your mind about the layout of your pages, you'll never get a site done no matter what theme or software you use.

You're right lol! I wasted time looking for something I thought was there but wasn't. When I heard things like "ease of use" and "highly customizable", I went looking for it only to find it's not there. As for choosing a theme, I'm sure I will  settle on something (the good enough for now thought process). Something is really amazing though, as photographers we post about the Chinese knockoffs in our gear. They have nothing on Wordpress! Thousands of the same themes (charged as well as free) with more of the same popping up everyday. When it comes to template/themes, I think there's less than 20. The other 42,000 seem to be direct knockoffs or one feature off of each other lol.

Christopher Trento wrote:
You're right lol! I wasted time looking for something I thought was there but wasn't. When I heard things like "ease of use" and "highly customizable", I went looking for it only to find it's not there. As for choosing a theme, I'm sure I will  settle on something (the good enough for now thought process). Something is really amazing though, as photographers we post about the Chinese knockoffs in our gear. They have nothing on Wordpress! Thousands of the same themes (charged as well as free) with more of the same popping up everyday. When it comes to template/themes, I think there's less than 20. The other 42,000 seem to be direct knockoffs or one feature off of each other lol.

Well, I think your exaggerating about the themes. There are many many varieties, some knockoffs some not. Some with more customization than others. I also think your lumping ease of use with customization unfairly. It is easy to use right out of the box, the basic themes are easy to use and follow. It is highly customizeable, not easily customizeable - there is a big difference there.

Anyways as I already suggested, as did the guy above me, checkout themeforest.net they have ton of great photography wordpress themes that are reasonably customizeable and easy to use. If you want something completely unique go pay a developer a couple grand.

AM Photography wrote:
Well, I think your exaggerating about the themes. There are many many varieties, some knockoffs some not. Some with more customization than others. I also think your lumping ease of use with customization unfairly. It is easy to use right out of the box, the basic themes are easy to use and follow. It is highly customizeable, not easily customizeable - there is a big difference there.

Anyways as I already suggested, as did the guy above me, checkout themeforest.net they have ton of great photography wordpress themes that are reasonably customizeable and easy to use. If you want something completely unique go pay a developer a couple grand.

Yes that was an exaggeration, coming from frustration (though still not untrue). I guess the reason it seems I'm unfairly lumping those is because I read and heard all the hype quite differently. For all the "press" that's gone around, I did expect to find more control. Square peg in square hole, round peg in round hole. Straight out of the box I actually DID expect much more than being able to change the color of the pegs lol. Now I understand that depending on the theme you can in fact do more. It's just that as I said, the Wordpress hype seemed and sounded much more user friendly on paper than it actually is if want to be creative. I can create my own album designs with PSDs, but it's a lot easier to drag and drop in a album design program and then still further customize the page with WYSIWYG steps. I guess that's what I was looking for.

Christopher Trento wrote:
Please help!

Good luck.

I find WordPress harder than mastering Dreamweaver. I figured I just must have some mental block with it but I find it confusing as hell.

Yes, WordPress is the Devil!

AM Photography wrote:
I should also note, there are wysiwyg wordpress themes, I cant name any off the top of my head but I will look around and link a few for you if you like.

Hey thanks that would be great!

Michael Pandolfo wrote:

Good luck.

I find WordPress harder than mastering Dreamweaver. I figured I just must have some mental block with it but I find it confusing as hell.

Yes, WordPress is the Devil!

LOL I'm so glad I'm not the only one. I don't usually feel that I'm a stupid man, but this whole thing has left me feeling like a dope

John Jebbia wrote:
I use Joomla rather than Wordpress. I've tried both, but find myself always coming back to Joomla. Rather than buying a pre-made template, I purchased a program called Artisteer. It VERY easily creates templates for both Joomla and Wordpress sites and gives you the power to customize them to your liking. It's one program I highly recommend when working with Wordpress or Joomla.

http://www.artisteer.com

There's also a ton of tutorials on Youtube so you can quickly learn the ins and outs.

I feel just the opposite. I inherited one site that was done in Joomla and it was a mess, hardly intuitive and was forever crashing. I came to hate Joomla so much that at my own expense I ported it into WordPress.

The thing I really hated about Joomla is that it is hard to figure out what the URL of a page is going to be unless it is put into a menu, where as with WordPress, you click on the View Page button and you see the page and can grab the URL. Joomla you have to look up the page id, and then construct the URL yourself.

William Kious wrote:
Unless you are relatively familiar (I.e., you can basically program) with MySQL and PHP, there is absolutely NOTHING friendly about customizing Wordpress. You also need to know a fair amount about working with CSS's and HTML.

Anyone who says it's easy and "no big deal", is coming from a background in those languages.

It really is no big deal in most cases. I'm no expert.. not even close. But when I need to do something I don't know how to do I just Google, "Joomla how do I..." and 99% of the time I get the answer. Wordpress is probably the same.

Ezhini wrote:
+100

Also, keep in mind that ALMOST ALL THE FREE PLUGINS will have zero technical support/help if you are stranded with a problem. To resolve the issues, you will end up spending hours after hours looking through forums with varying answers, and at the end, not finding any useful workable solutions. You will end up dumping the plugin and go in search of another plugin that does the same thing - a few more hours of search online!

AGAIN: I am not saying ALL of them are trouble some, but if you get in a troubling situation you will have a tought time resolving it yourself.

Even if you are willing to put the time into learning the basics of CSS and PHP, it will be weeks before you figure out which files contain which elements of your site!

Documentation in any open source platform is still a long way from being useful to anyone who is new to the platforms.

p.s.: By the way, I design, develop and host websites too. I have used wordpress and Joomla and still continue to implement new Joomla installations, but not Wordpress. I can customize to a good degree, but that's after a plentitude of trials and errors.

Install Joomla. Buy & actually read "Learn Joomla in 24 hrs". Google the rest. Worked for me.

AM Photography wrote:

Sorry, But I call BS on that one. Wordpress Theme customization requires 0 MySQL knowledge, only time that is needed is when you are writing a plugin or widget completely from scratch - or changing come piece of the core WP database.

PHP knowledge is barely required to be honest. I cannot write PHP code from scratch myself, I do not know enough of it. But I am able to completely customize almost any Wordpress Theme. Why? Because I am familiar with common Wordpress PHP tags and its basic uses.

Well, I couldn't get it to do what I wanted it to do out-of-the-box, so it instantly became more hassle than it was worth. Everyone has a different definition of accessibility. Trying to wade through WordPress is not intuitive for most people. Those without some of the knowledge base I mentioned are going to be absolutely lost and will likely give up (especially if they have a concept in mind and try to force the software to conform.)

If people don't want to stray far from templates and themes, they can likely figure it out. Beyond that, WP has a pretty damn steep learning curve.

John Jebbia wrote:

It really is no big deal in most cases. I'm no expert.. not even close. But when I need to do something I don't know how to do I just Google, "Joomla how do I..." and 99% of the time I get the answer. Wordpress is probably the same.

I don't know... you might be surprised. You'll find 1,000 people with the same problem but no one can figure out how to fix it.

Ally Moy wrote:
Don't expect to find an easy way to get everything you want though. I literally spent weeks trying to accomplish 1 concept on a WP site for a friend. It was 1 concept but turned out to involve a ton of things that needed to be added manually and tested and fixed x1000.

This... right here.

I have better things to do with my time than attempt to debug something that was advertised as "simple".