This thread was locked on 2012-12-03 05:51:27
Forums > Newbie Forum > I'm part of John Robert Powers in San Diego!

Photographer

Shot By Adam

Posts: 6428

Las Vegas, Nevada, US

salvatori. wrote:
Gotta love this place...

If any photographer here has ever attended a seminar, given a seminar, paid a model to get shooting experience, bought a book on improving your photography... and then went on to bash the OP for going to a modeling school...

you are a hypocrite.

Complete, 100% BULLSHIT. Obviously you have no experience in JRP or you'd never make that statement. Before I was married I dated a girl for 3 years who was a Line Captain/showgirl in one of the huge, prestigious shows here in Las Vegas. She was like many others who did what they loved but it just didn't pay the bills very well. (she was the highest paid non-principal dancer in a cast of over 100 and her salary was $29,500/year...showgirls don't make much). As with most dancers, she had a day job to supplement her income and she worked as an assistant manager of JRP. Even SHE referred to it as a scam! Contrary to what they tell you, they don't screen anyone other than their ability to pay "tuition" to their school. They take anyone in who can write a check and promise them the sun, moon, stars, and everything in between to get their hopes up of one day making it big on a runway, trade show floor, or even TV shows and commercials. Even after all of their schooling and tens of thousands of dollars they charge you for classes, their success rate is no higher than anyone out there pounding the pavement on their own. Their "connections" are worthless and are usually people somehow connected with JRP or are on their payroll. The only way they can not get shut down by the FTC is that, while they build your hopes up for success (to keep you paying), their "product" is actually classes and those classes are a complete joke.

So, sorry to break your white-knightdom, but JRP and those like it are nothing but a scam that figured out a way to beat the system by offering some sort of product they can't get in trouble for.

Nov 27 12 04:38 pm Link

Model

Alivia Autumn

Posts: 610

Seattle, Washington, US

If you want to be a successful model, take that money and pay the talented photographers in your area.  Not sure if you are trying to make a career or are doing this as a hobby.  But your money could be invested in something much more beneficial.

Modeling is a talent, it isn't a skill you can learn from a school.  Just like anything in the fine arts, ie music instruments, vocal singers, painters, etc.  And with that most people need PRACTICE to improve and grow.  You can practice with the talent in your area, check out the casting calls or hire a photographer.

Read www.newmodels.com

Lots of insightful info.  Good luck!

Nov 27 12 11:48 pm Link

Photographer

Orca Bay Images

Posts: 32439

Poulsbo, Washington, US

Angela DelaCruz wrote:
I am part of JRP for the training and I am learning a whole lot.

I ask again... What are you learning? Please be specific.

Nov 28 12 03:09 am Link

Model

Angela DelaCruz

Posts: 9

San Diego, California, US

Designit - Edward Olson wrote:
These replies are bordering on harassment of the model.

This is how i feel. but I have thick skin, I can handle it.

Its like saying "your an idiot for choosing JRP" and "you are an idiot for enjoying paying JRP for education".

I can work and learn from hands on... but I am the type that needs to someone to explain and teach, like a school type. I'm not as talented as many of you 'hands on learning' types, but I am enjoying it. I am also into acting, not just modeling. So I am enjoying it VERY much.

Yes, it cost money... But I am okay with it. I already have an audition in L.A. because of the confidence I gained (in the 3 weeks of being here).
I do not know much of the industry and they really walk with me through this whole process of photos, audition techniques, etc.

Thanks for all your replies.

Nov 28 12 11:20 am Link

guide forum

Photographer

GPS Studio Services

Posts: 37716

San Francisco, California, US

Designit - Edward Olson wrote:
These replies are bordering on harassment of the model.

Angela DelaCruz wrote:
This is how i feel. but I have thick skin, I can handle it.

My feelings are entirely different than those from the others.  I also tend to agree with Edward.

Whether or not you go to JRP is a personal decision for you to make.  I don't think that people should be spending so much time criticizing you for a decision you are happy with.

It is true that most of what modeling schools teach you, you can learn yourself.  There is an exception though.  That is self-confidence.  I find that, for most people, schools do them little good.  For a few though, it is the kick in the pants they need to build the self-confidence that they need.

So, when I was a professional manager, I would rarely recommend modeling schools to my clients (although I often recommended acting schools and acting coaches).  I did occasionally find someone who would benefit from a school, and at least one became successful as a result of it.

Being "thick skinned" is one of the best traits for a successful model.

Nov 28 12 11:30 am Link

Model

Angela DelaCruz

Posts: 9

San Diego, California, US

ei Total Productions wrote:

Designit - Edward Olson wrote:
These replies are bordering on harassment of the model.

My feelings are entirely different than those from the others.  I also tend to agree with Edward.

Whether or not you go to JRP is a personal decision for you to make.  I don't think that people should be spending so much time criticizing you for a decision you are happy with.

It is true that most of what modeling schools teach you, you can learn yourself.  There is an exception though.  That is self-confidence.  I find that, for most people, schools do them little good.  For a few though, it is the kick in the pants they need to build the self-confidence that they need.

So, when I was a professional manager, I would rarely recommend modeling schools to my clients (although I often recommended acting schools and acting coaches).  I did occasionally find someone who would benefit from a school, and at least one became successful as a result of it.

Being "thick skinned" is one of the best traits for a successful model.

Thanks so much! And that is something I am gaining a whole lot... Self Confidence which is something I lack.
Thanks for your reply. I miss the bay area, I use to live in Santana Row (in Santa Clara)!

Nov 28 12 11:35 am Link

Model

K I C K H A M

Posts: 14663

Los Angeles, California, US

Angela DelaCruz wrote:

This is how i feel. but I have thick skin, I can handle it.

Its like saying "your an idiot for choosing JRP" and "you are an idiot for enjoying paying JRP for education".

I can work and learn from hands on... but I am the type that needs to someone to explain and teach, like a school type. I'm not as talented as many of you 'hands on learning' types, but I am enjoying it. I am also into acting, not just modeling. So I am enjoying it VERY much.

Yes, it cost money... But I am okay with it. I already have an audition in L.A. because of the confidence I gained (in the 3 weeks of being here).
I do not know much of the industry and they really walk with me through this whole process of photos, audition techniques, etc.

Thanks for all your replies.

Congratulations!

Is it a meeting with an agency or an audition for a part? Since you're already driving up here, I would definitely talk to the people setting you up to meet with agencies and see if you can meet with one or two of them while you're here, too. Make it a full day!

Nov 28 12 11:38 am Link

Photographer

Sal W Hanna

Posts: 6634

Huntington Beach, California, US

K I C K H A M wrote:
Congratulations!

Is it a meeting with an agency or an audition for a part? Since you're already driving up here, I would definitely talk to the people setting you up to meet with agencies and see if you can meet with one or two of them while you're here, too. Make it a full day!

Also contact some local photographers and see if any of them are willing to work with you while you are in town.

In my opinion there is nothing wrong with paying for education. You are doing what you feel is right for you.

Nov 28 12 11:44 am Link

Photographer

MIDNIGHT EXPRESS

Posts: 549

Pomona, California, US

Sal W Hanna wrote:

Also contact some local photographers and see if any of them are willing to work with you while you are in town.

In my opinion there is nothing wrong with paying for education. You are doing what you feel is right for you.

+1

Nov 28 12 11:47 am Link

Model

Angela DelaCruz

Posts: 9

San Diego, California, US

Its for a M&M's Commercial!! I am also meeting with an agency which is SAG affiliated (legit agency). If any of you are from L.A. I'd love to grab lunch Monday!

Nov 28 12 11:49 am Link

Model

K I C K H A M

Posts: 14663

Los Angeles, California, US

Angela DelaCruz wrote:
Its for a M&M's Commercial!! I am also meeting with an agency which is SAG affiliated (legit agency). If any of you are from L.A. I'd love to grab lunch Monday!

Grrr! I'm shooting until 2 that day. Have you checked out the casting calls here yet?

MM Castings in & near LA

You might  want to see if there are any good TF castings so you can set up a shoot, as others have recommended.

Nov 28 12 11:56 am Link

Photographer

DOUGLASFOTOS

Posts: 8880

Los Angeles, California, US

Angela DelaCruz wrote:
Its for a M&M's Commercial!! I am also meeting with an agency which is SAG affiliated (legit agency). If any of you are from L.A. I'd love to grab lunch Monday!

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= … bhU5kTyGnA

Nov 28 12 12:01 pm Link

Photographer

Shot By Adam

Posts: 6428

Las Vegas, Nevada, US

Angela DelaCruz wrote:

This is how i feel. but I have thick skin, I can handle it.

Its like saying "your an idiot for choosing JRP" and "you are an idiot for enjoying paying JRP for education".

Nobody will ever fault you for wanting to pay for education. The issue is WHERE and WHAT you are paying that people have issues with. Paying Harvard tuition fees to receive a "degree" from Tony down the alley is what is at issue here. It's quality vs. expense that many people in here have experience and knowledge of that tells them that JRP is a massive waste of money when there is better education out there you can learn from the same, if not less money. It's not that we're here to give you a hard time just for the sake of doing it. You need to understand that there are many industry professionals on these forums who have a lot of knowledge and history of working with JRP and know it's a ripoff. All we are doing is trying to help someone from getting scammed, not give you a difficult time because we're in a forum.

Nov 28 12 01:41 pm Link

Photographer

Shot By Adam

Posts: 6428

Las Vegas, Nevada, US

Alivia Autumn wrote:
Modeling is a talent, it isn't a skill you can learn from a school.  Just like anything in the fine arts, ie music instruments, vocal singers, painters, etc.  And with that most people need PRACTICE to improve and grow.  You can practice with the talent in your area, check out the casting calls or hire a photographer.

Absolutely not true. Would you consider acting a talent that you can't learn from school? If so, what is your answer to the fact that virtually every major actor in Hollywood has attended some form of acting school. I agree that it does take a core level of talent to be a good actor, but like many arts, your core only can get you so far, then you need education on the specific mechanics of that art to excel.

Nov 28 12 01:44 pm Link

Photographer

DOUGLASFOTOS

Posts: 8880

Los Angeles, California, US

Shot By Adam wrote:

Absolutely not true. Would you consider acting a talent that you can't learn from school? If so, what is your answer to the fact that virtually every major actor in Hollywood has attended some form of acting school. I agree that it does take a core level of talent to be a good actor, but like many arts, your core only can get you so far, then you need education on the specific mechanics of that art to excel.

Impressive List of Actors who attended The Actors Studio....

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= … jvFNil5brA

Nov 28 12 02:02 pm Link

Photographer

Tony Lawrence

Posts: 19414

Chicago, Illinois, US

Alivia Autumn wrote:
If you want to be a successful model, take that money and pay the talented photographers in your area.  Not sure if you are trying to make a career or are doing this as a hobby.  But your money could be invested in something much more beneficial.

Modeling is a talent, it isn't a skill you can learn from a school.  Just like anything in the fine arts, ie music instruments, vocal singers, painters, etc.  And with that most people need PRACTICE to improve and grow.  You can practice with the talent in your area, check out the casting calls or hire a photographer.

Read www.newmodels.com

Lots of insightful info.  Good luck!

Singing, dancing, playing instruments as well as other artistic skills ARE things that taking classes or going too school can improve you.   Modelling is totally based on a persons appearance and no class anywhere will make you 5'11" and beautiful.   Schools like JRP used too be called finishing schools because they taught girls and young women beauty tips, etc.   We can debate if JRP is a good investment but the OP feels it is and its her time and money.   
However schools like JRP can help people learn about the industry and help them with demo reels for acting and other things.

I would agree that perhaps a better investment is paying good shooters and MUA but places like JRP and Barbizon have their place as well.

Nov 28 12 02:06 pm Link

Photographer

Star

Posts: 17965

Los Angeles, California, US

Angela DelaCruz wrote:
I'm sorry that many of you dislike JRP, I have already had 2 appointments with agencies that i met at JRP. Yes, they are expensive, but I choose to pay for someone to teach me since I am new.

I understand that I can learn from experience and working with other photographers, but I like working with coaches that are professional and are currently in the industry. I met with Elite Model from LA and they recommend JRP for beginners. Maybe many of you are well experienced, but I am not.

My husband and I have a successful business and have the money to pay for training. So I do not mind paying for training. ALL professions (acting, modeling, sports, photographers, doctors, etc.) need training of some sort not just experiences.

Again, I don't mind paying. And Again, I do not rely on them to make me successful, that is up to me to book jobs. Just like i know TONS of my friends who went to college for education and are still working as waitresses after they graduate. No one can promise work, it is up to the individual to go for it.
I am part of JRP for the training and I am learning a whole lot.

Then pay. Pay for dance lessons, and pay photographers to take great photos of you, but don't pay someone to take advantage of you. The fact is for the work you are suited for an acting coach would do you a world more good, and give you more real world connections, than a "modeling school."

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/modeling … owers.html

they have a one star rating

from the BBB (which gives them an F rating- the entire franchise not this location)

"Industry Tips
These companies advertise for talent with ads that imply that by responding you will have started on your road to stardom. If you answer an ad, they will often tell you outright that they will help you obtain acting or modeling employment. The catch is that everyone who responds needs lessons or training to go before a camera or down a runway, they say. This training is really what these companies are selling, and their courses can obligate you for thousands of dollars. In reality, they cannot guarantee you employment, and you will not find such a guarantee in their written contract.

California law contains certain requirements of advance-fee talent services and prohibitions against certain practices. If the company promises you auditions or employment, or if they even ask you for a fee in advance, a talent service is considered to come under the provisions of this law. Under the law, they are not allowed to charge you, for example, to provide photographs, filmstrips, audition tapes or videotapes, lessons or training. "

Nov 28 12 04:24 pm Link

Photographer

Star

Posts: 17965

Los Angeles, California, US

also fire=hot. Don't touch fire.

Nov 28 12 04:25 pm Link

Photographer

Star

Posts: 17965

Los Angeles, California, US

DOUGLASFOTOS wrote:

Impressive List of Actors who attended The Actors Studio....

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= … jvFNil5brA

are you honestly equating JRP to The Actor's Studio?

Nov 28 12 04:28 pm Link

Model

Josie Lee

Posts: 768

Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Hi, welcome to llama Mayhem.

I'm really sorry, but JRP is bad news and does not have any respect in the industry. It may even hurt you professionally to be associated with them. I'm from San Diego and my very first agency was Shamon Freitas: http://www.shamonfreitas.com/models.htm
They were amazing! Please PM me if you have any questions.

You seem to be a really sweet person and I sincerely wish you the best!

Nov 28 12 04:44 pm Link

Photographer

DOUGLASFOTOS

Posts: 8880

Los Angeles, California, US

Star wrote:

DOUGLASFOTOS wrote:
Impressive List of Actors who attended The Actors Studio....

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= … jvFNil5brA

are you honestly equating JRP to The Actor's Studio? [/quote

No star No

star someone mentioned that some of the best Actors attended acting school..and I brought in The Actor Studio...Next..I will check with Mighty star.

Nov 28 12 04:48 pm Link

Photographer

Toto Photo

Posts: 2971

Belmont, California, US

ei Total Productions wrote:
My feelings are entirely different than those from the others.  I also tend to agree with Edward.

Whether or not you go to JRP is a personal decision for you to make.  I don't think that people should be spending so much time criticizing you for a decision you are happy with...

+1 and well said.

Santana Row, wow you must really want it bad if you left that area for SoCal!

Best of luck.

Nov 28 12 04:50 pm Link

Photographer

Star

Posts: 17965

Los Angeles, California, US

DOUGLASFOTOS wrote:
Impressive List of Actors who attended The Actors Studio....

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= … jvFNil5brA

Star wrote:
are you honestly equating JRP to The Actor's Studio?

DOUGLASFOTOS wrote:
No star No

star someone mentioned that some of the best Actors attended acting school..and I brought in The Actor Studio...Next..I will check with Mighty star.

WTF is wrong with you? No really do you have a medical condition?

Nov 28 12 04:51 pm Link

Photographer

udor

Posts: 22938

New York, New York, US

ei Total Productions wrote:
Whether or not you go to JRP is a personal decision for you to make.  I don't think that people should be spending so much time criticizing you for a decision you are happy with...

Toto Photo wrote:
+1 and well said.

Isn't anybody reading the posts, testimonies, recommendations, link to consumer affairs etc. just in this thread???

It's like you are with a naive friend that has absolutely no idea about cars, just got the driver's license and wants to purchase the very first car.

The person goes to the most sleazy used car dealer, with a known reputation to rip people off, and tries to sell your friend a broken down Pinto, with breaks and suspension shot, doors are rusted through, roof is dented in, has problems starting, engine compartment is a disaster and tells your friend that this car and it's price tag of $15,000 is a steal... and the car is PERFECT for the friend and will be able to go cross country and has another 250,000 miles before the next oil change.

Everybody else says: Don't do it... it's a lemon, the car is dead and it's a waste of money... yet... you come and say... 'You know what, don't worry about those negative people! It's your car, it's your money and in the end... a car is a car..."

That's exactly what you guys are doing right now... you are not helping her, but pushing her into the abyss... with good intentions.

So what if they have the money... wasting it on garbage is still a waste.

Nov 29 12 02:10 am Link

Photographer

Shot By Adam

Posts: 6428

Las Vegas, Nevada, US

udor wrote:
That's exactly what you guys are doing right now... you are not helping her, but pushing her into the abyss... with good intentions.

Very well said. Some people in here would rather make the OP feel good rather than give good advice and guidance. The road to hell is always paved with good intentions.

Nov 29 12 02:24 am Link

Photographer

Designit - Edward Olson

Posts: 1643

West Hollywood, California, US

udor wrote:

ei Total Productions wrote:
Whether or not you go to JRP is a personal decision for you to make.  I don't think that people should be spending so much time criticizing you for a decision you are happy with...

Isn't anybody reading the posts, testimonies, recommendations, link to consumer affairs etc. just in this thread???

It's like you are with a naive friend that has absolutely no idea about cars, just got the driver's license and wants to purchase the very first car.

The person goes to the most sleazy used car dealer, with a known reputation to rip people off, and tries to sell your friend a broken down Pinto, with breaks and suspension shot, doors are rusted through, roof is dented in, has problems starting, engine compartment is a disaster and tells your friend that this car and it's price tag of $15,000 is a steal... and the car is PERFECT for the friend and will be able to go cross country and has another 250,000 miles before the next oil change.

Everybody else says: Don't do it... it's a lemon, the car is dead and it's a waste of money... yet... you come and say... 'You know what, don't worry about those negative people! It's your car, it's your money and in the end... a car is a car..."

That's exactly what you guys are doing right now... you are not helping her, but pushing her into the abyss... with good intentions.

So what if they have the money... wasting it on garbage is still a waste.

What you are ignoring is that she has already paid for the program, and is happy with it. Your negative opinion of JRP is pointless.

Neither of us is helping her, because she doesn't need our help. She is a grown woman, an adult who is aware of what she is doing, chose to do it, and is happy with her decision.

Nov 29 12 02:39 am Link

Photographer

udor

Posts: 22938

New York, New York, US

Designit - Edward Olson wrote:

What you are ignoring is that she has already paid for the program, and is happy with it. Your negative opinion of JRP is pointless.

Neither of us is helping her, because she doesn't need our help. She is a grown woman, an adult who is aware of what she is doing, chose to do it, and is happy with her decision.

You are absolutely correct!

She did pay, let's just hope that others, who have not signed up, especially parents of young hopeful ANTM fans read this and think twice.

Nov 29 12 03:09 am Link

Photographer

EdwardKristopher

Posts: 3377

Dallas, Texas, US

Angela,

Welcome to MM!

I wish you the Best of Success in all of your future endeavors out here!

Kindest regards,
Edward

Dec 02 12 10:36 pm Link

Model

Lee Sette

Posts: 1

GLEN OAKS, New York, US

hi, check out some of my photos, also let me know if you like them, leave a comment or message. Much love.

Dec 02 12 10:40 pm Link

Photographer

LA StarShooter

Posts: 1939

Los Angeles, California, US

Angela DelaCruz wrote:
Its for a M&M's Commercial!! I am also meeting with an agency which is SAG affiliated (legit agency). If any of you are from L.A. I'd love to grab lunch Monday!

LA is a tough, tough town. Welcome to the jungle. For MM they will be looking at a ton of people. 

I was curious why you sought an agency as you are a wedding photographer. I'm not saying that would make you an expert on posing but you may have shot some models starting out and really thought about poses.

It's kind of funny that on my last shoot, I started demonstrating the poses to four models. I have more girl in me that I thought.

I wish you success. I had a look at your nascent portfolio and you're off to a start.

MM is an awesome place in which to build a portfolio. For models there are a lot of photographers willing to TF and for photographers it can allow one to work with some really great models.

Awesome place. Great place to network. Through a model here I met a makeup-and-hair team.

I think the advice about checking up castings is good. You might get some great images.

Good luck and godspeed to you.

Dec 02 12 11:21 pm Link

Photographer

udor

Posts: 22938

New York, New York, US

Lee Sette wrote:
hi, check out some of my photos, also let me know if you like them, leave a comment or message. Much love.

SPAM!

Dec 03 12 05:39 am Link

Photographer

JLC Images

Posts: 11559

Phillipsburg, New Jersey, US

Moderator Warning!

Lee Sette wrote:
hi, check out some of my photos, also let me know if you like them, leave a comment or message. Much love.

Please use the announcements page for this type of message

Dec 03 12 05:48 am Link

Photographer

JLC Images

Posts: 11559

Phillipsburg, New Jersey, US

Moderator Note!
I think the OP gets the gist of what everyone is trying to say.  I am locking this as the purpose of this thread was an introduction.  A new thread can be started to discuss modeling schools.

Dec 03 12 05:50 am Link