This thread was locked on 2014-03-24 15:51:35 by Blue Cube Imaging. Reason: Zombie thread.
Forums > Off-Topic Discussion > Model Review / Rating Sites?

Photographer

4 R D

Posts: 1058

Mexico City, Distrito Federal, Mexico

If I was a model I would totally want to be in that tumblr. So much unintentional flattery...

Dec 01 12 09:45 am Link

Photographer

nolngeractive

Posts: 178

Reno, Nevada, US

Shot By Adam wrote:
Apples and oranges. A good review of a camera is based on quantifiable results showing different photos under different conditions, amount of time to focus, standards used for determining build quality, etc.

On eBay, when I leave a review of a seller, it's based on quantifiable facts...did the item ship as promised? Is the item as described? Etc. Quantifiable information.

A review of a model is based on subjective opinion. Whether she was easy to work with is not quantifiable, it's pure opinion. And when you go and give a review for a model, saying she was "difficult to work with" you might be leaving out the fact that you were hitting on her for an hour making her uncomfortable in the shoot. It's funny how negative reviews of models frequently leave out major facts like that when the other side of the story comes out.

I'm sorry but that logic doesnt hold up. If it were true then everyone would buy the "objectively" superior camera at each price point - no debate about  mark iii vs. d800. Obviously, that's not the case.

In fact, a pretty solid argument can be made that whether or not someone showed up on time and was in fact the height and weight stated in their profile is more objectively measurable than the quality of a photograph taken with a particular camera.

Dec 01 12 10:45 am Link

Photographer

Christopher Carter

Posts: 7693

Indianapolis, Indiana, US

ClimaxArt wrote:

I'm sorry but that logic doesnt hold up. If it were true then everyone would buy the "objectively" superior camera at each price point - no debate about  mark iii vs. d800. Obviously, that's not the case.

In fact, a pretty solid argument can be made that whether or not someone showed up on time and was in fact the height and weight stated in their profile is more objectively measurable than the quality of a photograph taken with a particular camera.

Yes, but did they show up on time, or are you just SAYING they didn't to make them look bad?

No one can just SAY one camera is better than the other unless it is. But you can say whatever you want about a person on a blog about "bad model." But one of the models on your site I know is actually pretty popular and talented. So already you're premise doesn't hold up.

Dec 01 12 12:02 pm Link

Photographer

Shot By Adam

Posts: 5967

Las Vegas, Nevada, US

ClimaxArt wrote:
I'm sorry but that logic doesnt hold up. If it were true then everyone would buy the "objectively" superior camera at each price point - no debate about  mark iii vs. d800. Obviously, that's not the case.

In fact, a pretty solid argument can be made that whether or not someone showed up on time and was in fact the height and weight stated in their profile is more objectively measurable than the quality of a photograph taken with a particular camera.

It is absolutely astounding how anyone with an IQ over room temperature is incapable of understanding this concept that you seem to be struggling with. I've never read one intelligent review of any product EVER that simply says "Brand X is better than Brand Y so don't buy Brand Y instead of Brand X because Brand X is clearly just better. The end." What a review does is break a product down OBJECTIVELY by feature and do a comparison of features, side-by-side, between different products, and make a claim that based on the similarities and differences between the two, that there is a winner. Usually, you will have consensus among tests between different reviewers and they usually come to the same conclusion. Once in a while, you will find someone with a difference of opinion and you need to then see why their testing revealed different results or why they came to a different conclusion. Once in a while, pure opinion slips in there though such as, "Brand X Camera feels better in my hands than Brand Y Camera" but usually, in any legitimate comparison, such tests are not given much credence when drawing a conclusion as to a winner. Any way you look at it though, the opinions are based upon verifiable data that anyone can do with any one of those products and yield identical results.

When using a review system for models, it's 100% opinion with little or no merit based on verifiable results of anyone. Just because you say a model showed up late, how are we all supposed to take YOUR word for it that she did. Again, this horse has been been beaten to death on your front porch already and you just fail to understand this concept. How are we supposed to know the other side of the story of how you gave the model the wrong address or your address wasn't posted on the building or you didn't answer the door when she knocked for 10 minutes because your stereo was blasting in the studio, etc. It's a he said/she said situation and every one of your critiques is based purely on unverifiable data, much of which is based upon biased viewpoints.

Personally, I'm more of a Nikon fan than I am a Canon fan but if I took two sample images, side-by-side and used a double-blind test to determine which identical photo was shot in each camera to determine sharpness, that's something that is quantifiable and repeatable. With a model review site, none of that is true. That's why it just wouldn't work.

Dec 01 12 10:31 pm Link

Model

P I X I E

Posts: 35329

Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Nicolette wrote:
This is a pretty good way to promote your tumblr. Clever.
How long ago did you make it?

Great minds think alike...

Dec 02 12 12:22 pm Link

Photographer

Moore Photo Graphix

Posts: 5288

Washington, District of Columbia, US

ClimaxArt wrote:
I don't understand the negative reaction to the idea of reviews for models and photographers.

It was done before, and they lasted about as long as the rebooted Melrose Place. Ever heard of the phrase "If it sounds to good to be true, then you know it is?" Who's gonna separate all the data collect? Who's gonna hold those responsible if the data collected is false? That leads to the issue of lawyers. Who's gonna step up a legal department to protect the parties involve against litigation. Let's not forget lawsuits are now the new national pastime. These are legit questions that need to be answered and taken lightly.

ClimaxArt wrote:
Right here on MM there's hundreds of reviews for cameras, lenses, light-stands, gels, lipstick - i even saw one for panty liners a while back. Why is it ok to endlessly review the newest camera but not the two services actually bought and sold here, modeling and photography?

By that logic or lack there of, Formula Drift racing is just like Formula 1 because they that have Formula in title. MM has a policy where they don't involve in personal disputes. The criteria used to review consumer products can't be applied to humans. That like judging a meal at Chipolte on the same format you judge a meal at a five star dining establishment.

ClimaxArt wrote:
And, you're right reviews have to be taken in context. If you read 10 in which the majority of comments are consistent - either positive or negative  - dont you take that information into consideration when making a decision.

How do you those 10 people aren't fake accounts, or paid to make those statements? As I said earlier, who's gonna verify that information? Also, consider the sources! Do they have a relationship with the person making the claims? How can you tell those statements are truly independent of each and not a cut and paste reply? Remember, this is the Internet. What you see isn't always what you get!

ClimaxArt wrote:
So what if one person out of 10 or even 5 says a model was a flake or the photographer didnt provide images from a tf shoot? In that case, arent most people going to think the reviewer has the problem not the service provider?

You just answered your own question! If you're not having luck finding models online, either join a meetup group or contact an agency. As the old saying goes, ever finger you point at others. Those same 3-4 fingers get pointed back at you!

Dec 02 12 06:15 pm Link

Photographer

nolngeractive

Posts: 178

Reno, Nevada, US

Moore Photo Graphix wrote:

ClimaxArt wrote:
I don't understand the negative reaction to the idea of reviews for models and photographers.

It was done before, and they lasted about as long as the rebooted Melrose Place. Ever heard of the phrase "If it sounds to good to be true, then you know it is?" Who's gonna separate all the data collect? Who's gonna hold those responsible if the data collected is false? That leads to the issue of lawyers. Who's gonna step up a legal department to protect the parties involve against litigation. Let's not forget lawsuits are now the new national pastime. These are legit questions that need to be answered and taken lightly.

ClimaxArt wrote:
Right here on MM there's hundreds of reviews for cameras, lenses, light-stands, gels, lipstick - i even saw one for panty liners a while back. Why is it ok to endlessly review the newest camera but not the two services actually bought and sold here, modeling and photography?

By that logic or lack there of, Formula Drift racing is just like Formula 1 because they that have Formula in title. MM has a policy where they don't involve in personal disputes. The criteria used to review consumer products can't be applied to humans. That like judging a meal at Chipolte on the same format you judge a meal at a five star dining establishment.

ClimaxArt wrote:
And, you're right reviews have to be taken in context. If you read 10 in which the majority of comments are consistent - either positive or negative  - dont you take that information into consideration when making a decision.

How do you those 10 people aren't fake accounts, or paid to make those statements? As I said earlier, who's gonna verify that information? Also, consider the sources! Do they have a relationship with the person making the claims? How can you tell those statements are truly independent of each and not a cut and paste reply? Remember, this is the Internet. What you see isn't always what you get!


You just answered your own question! If you're not having luck finding models online, either join a meetup group or contact an agency. As the old saying goes, ever finger you point at others. Those same 3-4 fingers get pointed back at you!

it's amazing how much time you put into creating a post which in the end exhibits the intelligence of a toddler.

Dec 03 12 01:50 pm Link

Photographer

nolngeractive

Posts: 178

Reno, Nevada, US

Shot By Adam wrote:

It is absolutely astounding how anyone with an IQ over room temperature is incapable of understanding this concept that you seem to be struggling with. I've never read one intelligent review of any product EVER that simply says "Brand X is better than Brand Y so don't buy Brand Y instead of Brand X because Brand X is clearly just better. The end." What a review does is break a product down OBJECTIVELY by feature and do a comparison of features, side-by-side, between different products, and make a claim that based on the similarities and differences between the two, that there is a winner. Usually, you will have consensus among tests between different reviewers and they usually come to the same conclusion. Once in a while, you will find someone with a difference of opinion and you need to then see why their testing revealed different results or why they came to a different conclusion. Once in a while, pure opinion slips in there though such as, "Brand X Camera feels better in my hands than Brand Y Camera" but usually, in any legitimate comparison, such tests are not given much credence when drawing a conclusion as to a winner. Any way you look at it though, the opinions are based upon verifiable data that anyone can do with any one of those products and yield identical results.

When using a review system for models, it's 100% opinion with little or no merit based on verifiable results of anyone. Just because you say a model showed up late, how are we all supposed to take YOUR word for it that she did. Again, this horse has been been beaten to death on your front porch already and you just fail to understand this concept. How are we supposed to know the other side of the story of how you gave the model the wrong address or your address wasn't posted on the building or you didn't answer the door when she knocked for 10 minutes because your stereo was blasting in the studio, etc. It's a he said/she said situation and every one of your critiques is based purely on unverifiable data, much of which is based upon biased viewpoints.

Personally, I'm more of a Nikon fan than I am a Canon fan but if I took two sample images, side-by-side and used a double-blind test to determine which identical photo was shot in each camera to determine sharpness, that's something that is quantifiable and repeatable. With a model review site, none of that is true. That's why it just wouldn't work.

you write three long ass paragraphs about objectivity and you finish by saying you're a "fan"? isn't fandom the epitome of subjectivity? if you wrote that you use nikon for situation x and canon for situation y and i tend be in situation x more often than y therefore i like nikon more ....there might have been merit to the first 450 words in you wrote.

Dec 03 12 02:02 pm Link

Photographer

Shot By Adam

Posts: 5967

Las Vegas, Nevada, US

ClimaxArt wrote:
you write three long ass paragraphs about objectivity and you finish by saying you're a "fan"? isn't fandom the epitome of subjectivity? if you wrote that you use nikon for situation x and canon for situation y and i tend be in situation x more often than y therefore i like nikon more ....there might have been merit to the first 450 words in you wrote.

Wow...and here I thought you were just being a http://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-iw5TaUpM1OI/AAAAAAAAAAI/AAAAAAAAABg/oWjr6XtVW8o/s120-c/photo.jpg for starting this thread. How silly of me. I'd ask the Mods to intervene but it looks like you're just going to delete your account in ten days anyway so why bother.

Dec 04 12 12:00 am Link

Photographer

Charles Howse

Posts: 536

Vero Beach, Florida, US

ClimaxArt wrote:
Since the the quality of model has gone way down hill on here lately in  an effort to save time and avoid aggravation I've been looking for model review sites with no luck.

Has anyone found anything useful? I did a quick search in the forums but no luck.

Let us know when you have built the review site, and have generated enough content to make it worth our time to visit. I'll be happy to help create content by adding some positive reviews of excellent models with whom I've had the pleasure of working.

Dec 04 12 05:20 am Link

Photographer

nolngeractive

Posts: 178

Reno, Nevada, US

Shot By Adam wrote:
Wow...and here I thought you were just being a http://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-iw5TaUpM1OI/AAAAAAAAAAI/AAAAAAAAABg/oWjr6XtVW8o/s120-c/photo.jpg for starting this thread. How silly of me. I'd ask the Mods to intervene but it looks like you're just going to delete your account in ten days anyway so why bother.

trolling? really? if you read my original post, which clearly no one did  or maybe just ignored - all i did was ask if anyone knew of a review site. i didn't suggest model mayhem have one or assert the merits of them one way or another. there wasnt a single reply with a link to a site so logically there should have been no replies to the op ... instead what happened, what always happens on these forums is people itching for an argument started one.

sure, you can't yell fire in a crowded movie and blame the crowd when you get trampled to death but if you ask where the bathroom is and some guy shoots you for making noise that's a different story.

unfortunately, just about every thread on here devolves into the same juvenile arguments. doesnt matter if the topic is lens cap covers or portfolio critiques someone is always on the attack.

Dec 04 12 05:22 am Link

Model

V Laroche

Posts: 2746

New Orleans, Louisiana, US

I haven't looked at the site in question, but I was thinking about it today and realized that it's called "Models THAT suck," rather than "Models WHO suck," as if models are inanimate objects and not people.

Dec 05 12 07:14 pm Link

Photographer

Image K

Posts: 23374

Las Vegas, Nevada, US

ClimaxArt wrote:

What you say is true but that's the case with all reviews sites ... from Amazon to  Yelp on down. You have to take them with a grain of salt but i think there would be some value in weeding out the truly bad eggs.

http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af100/moyer566/other/ubs68.gif

Dec 05 12 07:15 pm Link

Model

Raquel Rayne

Posts: 1186

New York, New York, US

Skydancer Photos wrote:
Someone that hateful, who hides in anonymity while trashing others... seems to me this is a sad person.

Considering that I, for whatever reason, have been labeled on that blog as a "complete bitch," this is disheartening.

OP - I understand your frustration with models, but I sincerely hope that you don't refer to blacklists such as the one you listed, because it is nothing more than hearsay.

I have close to 100 references who can attest otherwise to the label that I was personally given by the person who runs that blog. I do not shoot much anymore (due to my full time job), and as my photo was added quite recently I don't know who I could have pissed off so badly. I have an aching feeling that this was posted by somebody that I didn't even work with, since the increasingly sporadic times I have shot with a photographer have been pleasant.

On the bright side, I suppose it is free exposure. "There's no such thing as bad publicity"?

Dec 05 12 09:35 pm Link

Photographer

Rob Sackyta

Posts: 2

Grand Rapids, Michigan, US

The point is this site needs a rating system to weed out the Professionals from the wannabes and posers.  Had another no show today. 

Rating system!

Mar 24 14 03:47 pm Link

Photographer

Jerry Nemeth

Posts: 28014

Dearborn, Michigan, US

MelissaAnn  wrote:
It wouldn't be useful, because everyone's experiences and perceptions are different.  Just because a model doesn't show up, or is a perceived "bitch" during a shoot with a certain photographer, doesn't mean she's that way at every shoot, or that other photographers will have a problem with the same sort of behavior.  There are models that are almost universally loved by everyone, but hated by certain photographers, and vice versa.  Sometimes it's the model, but sometimes it's the photographers perception of the model, lack of planning for the shoot, poor communication etc.  I would never trust any websites, links, or lists devoted to blacklisting models or photographers, because there are two sides to every story.

You are responsible for your own experience here on MM.  There's a reason why many people have been on here for years and have mostly positive experiences, and why others have nothing but horror stories and bad experiences.  A lot of it is you, your perceptions, the way you choose models, your style of communication, and the way you choose to react to the behavior of others.

+1

Mar 24 14 03:50 pm Link

Photographer

Blue Cube Imaging

Posts: 11303

Ashland, Oregon, US

Moderator Note!
Zombie thread.

Mar 24 14 03:51 pm Link

Model

P I X I E

Posts: 35329

Toronto, Ontario, Canada

nolngeractive wrote:

What you say is true but that's the case with all reviews sites ... from Amazon to  Yelp on down. You have to take them with a grain of salt but i think there would be some value in weeding out the truly bad eggs.

Or, you know, you could simply check references...

Mar 24 14 03:51 pm Link