Forums > General Industry > Photography or prostitution?

Photographer

G Anderson Photo

Posts: 18

Madison, Wisconsin, US

So, I know of a photographer here on MM that pays models a very high rate for what appears to be artistic nude photos.  A few of those photos are posted on his port for each model to "make it look good".  However I know from models that have worked with him, that there is full hardcore photos/videos produced that he agrees to "never publish".  This makes it hard to recruit models that he works with for legitimate nude and adult modeling gigs as he tells them that they "don't want to have that stuff published just keep it private".   These models are generally new models looking for paid work who have no other history of doing porn or doing llama herdering.   In my opinion this photog is turning paid nude models into his own personal prostitutes.  I appreciate opinions on this.

Dec 14 12 11:05 am Link

Photographer

Kev Lawson

Posts: 7832

Las Vegas, Nevada, US

G Anderson Photo wrote:
So, I know of a photographer here on MM that pays models a very high rate for what appears to be artistic nude photos.  A few of those photos are posted on his port for each model to "make it look good".  However I know from models that have worked with him, that there is full hardcore photos/videos produced that he agrees to "never publish".  This makes it hard to recruit models that he works with for legitimate nude and adult modeling gigs as he tells them that they "don't want to have that stuff published just keep it private".   These models are generally new models looking for paid work who have no other history of doing porn or doing llama herdering.   In my opinion this photog is turning paid nude models into his own personal prostitutes.  I appreciate opinions on this.

Well, unless you were there for the shoots, it sounds like he said she said. Why are you worried about what some one else does?

Does this photographer list he shoots porn on his profile? If so that is against MM rules, CAM him. Otherwise, it is his business and not yours. If the models have complaints, they can CAM him.

Just my thoughts....

Dec 14 12 11:12 am Link

Photographer

Stephen Dawson

Posts: 29247

Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Do you have evidence that the guy is having sex with his models?

Any evidence that the models are coerced, or have not consented?

Are models not posing the way that you would like them to, because they are following this guy's advice?

Dec 14 12 11:13 am Link

Photographer

FemmeArtPhoto

Posts: 130

Washington, District of Columbia, US

Are you implying that models do not have minds of their own?

Dec 14 12 11:17 am Link

Photographer

S W I N S K E Y

Posts: 24315

Saint Petersburg, Florida, US

G Anderson Photo wrote:
So, I know of a photographer here on MM that pays models a very high rate for what appears to be artistic nude photos.  A few of those photos are posted on his port for each model to "make it look good".  However I know from models that have worked with him, that there is full hardcore photos/videos produced that he agrees to "never publish".  This makes it hard to recruit models that he works with for legitimate nude and adult modeling gigs as he tells them that they "don't want to have that stuff published just keep it private".   These models are generally new models looking for paid work who have no other history of doing porn or doing escorting.   In my opinion this photog is turning paid nude models into his own personal prostitutes.  I appreciate opinions on this.

so these models don't want anyone knowing about the private work they are doing, yet they tell you about it, sounds totally legit...actually, it sounds like a load of bullshit...

http://i.imgur.com/m8TQi.png

Dec 14 12 11:18 am Link

Photographer

alessandro cecconi

Posts: 164

Rio de Janeiro, Rio de Janeiro, Brazil

and why do you care? Who elected you to be the police chief of the world?
What rules are broken?
jeeezzzz relax...go do something more useful really!!!!

Dec 14 12 11:18 am Link

Photographer

Jhono Bashian

Posts: 2432

Cleveland, Ohio, US

No means NO!!!

Dec 14 12 11:20 am Link

Photographer

Neil Snape

Posts: 9473

Paris, Île-de-France, France

As long as they are not breaking laws what is it to you?   

If models consent it's their will.

I wouldn't be surpirsed though if the said won't be published would be if some scandal seeking publisher wanted to pay a lot for scuzzy pix.

Dec 14 12 11:20 am Link

Photographer

M Pandolfo Photography

Posts: 12116

Tampa, Florida, US

I'm trying to figure out two things.

1. How is anything you described prostitution? Even if he's paying them to perform hardcore sex on video, it's not prostitution.
2. How is it that you appear to know so much about this photographer and his business practices?

Unless he's recruiting for adult work via MM, which is only against site rules, nothing that I can tell that he's doing is illegal or even unethical. If he's making offers with models, they can agree or not agree and turn down the offer.

What business arrangement is made between he and his models is really none of your business and you seem way too involved. Are you tracking down every model he works with to "make sure" they're safe and not being taken advantage of?

This just comes across as being the Jealous White Knight.

Dec 14 12 11:20 am Link

Photographer

Ray Cornett

Posts: 9203

Sacramento, California, US

Prostitution is a big word. It does not just mean sex for money. If you see the various definitions of Prostitution it can me doing ANY service for money or personal gain. So, anyone who has a job or gets paid for anything they do is a prostitute.

Dec 14 12 11:23 am Link

Photographer

Mark Salo

Posts: 8378

Olney, Maryland, US

These models want to keep their private work private but they want to post pictures so that they will get hired?

Hmm

Dec 14 12 11:24 am Link

Photographer

Michael Broughton

Posts: 2244

Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada

don't like what consenting adults are doing with their genitals? keep your judgmental nose out of their crotches.

Dec 14 12 11:24 am Link

Photographer

Looknsee Photography

Posts: 21651

Portland, Oregon, US

I believe that sex between two consenting adults are nobody's business but the participants.

Dec 14 12 11:25 am Link

Photographer

SPRINGHEEL

Posts: 38195

Gibraltar, Michigan, US

FemmeArtPhoto wrote:
Are you implying that models do not have minds of their own?

If I had a dollar for every time that was insinuated in these forums

Dec 14 12 11:25 am Link

Photographer

M Pandolfo Photography

Posts: 12116

Tampa, Florida, US

I guess it's Fine Art Nude when it's a new model spread eagle for ME. It's prostitution if they're doing it with another photographer.

Dec 14 12 11:27 am Link

Photographer

eos3_300

Posts: 1508

Brooklyn, New York, US

Thank god the helpless damsels have you to save them
http://images.starcraftmazter.net/4chan/for_forums/internet_white_knight.gif

Dec 14 12 11:29 am Link

Model

Jordan Bunniie

Posts: 1693

Los Angeles, California, US

FemmeArtPhoto wrote:
Are you implying that models do not have minds of their own?

yes.




OP.. What happens between consenting adults is none of your business.

Dec 14 12 11:30 am Link

Model

Jordan Bunniie

Posts: 1693

Los Angeles, California, US

Dec 14 12 11:30 am Link

Photographer

Kent Art Photography

Posts: 2913

Ashford, England, United Kingdom

It 's a difficult situation, because you feel for the llamas who were sweet-talked into doing things they probably regretted later, and you're annoyed because the guy gives reputable photographers a bad name.

I knew of one photographer in London who was doing much the same sort of thing that you described for getting on for twenty years.  I do not doubt that when he gave up doing it there weren't others to take his place, and I'm sure it still goes on.

But what can you do?  Sadly, nothing.  That's life.

Dec 14 12 11:37 am Link

Photographer

G Anderson Photo

Posts: 18

Madison, Wisconsin, US

Thanks for all the replies and opinions.  I know for a fact that he has sex with the models because he has told me so and at least two models that have worked with him have told me so.  My understanding of the laws concerning hardcore shoots is that if the person paying the female model is also the one having sex with her and there is no intent to publish the content, then it is not porn but rather prostitution on camera.

Dec 14 12 11:42 am Link

Retoucher

Stephanie M Retoucher

Posts: 276

Portland, Maine, US

G Anderson Photo wrote:
Thanks for all the replies and opinions.  I know for a fact that he has sex with the llamas because he has told me so and at least two llamas that have worked with him have told me so.  My understanding of the laws concerning hardcore shoots is that if the person paying the female llama is also the one having sex with her and there is no intent to publish the content, then it is not porn but rather prostitution on camera.

Okay so wait - I'm still trying to figure out what's going on.

So this guy says he has had sex with two women who llamaed for him, and those two women have confirmed it with you.

Somewhere in this there are photos being taken and money exchanging hands.

Neither party is being coerced - meaning, the guy and the llamas are all happy with the arrangement.

Please explain how it is any of your business what they are doing?

Dec 14 12 11:44 am Link

Photographer

Kent Art Photography

Posts: 2913

Ashford, England, United Kingdom

G Anderson Photo wrote:
Thanks for all the replies and opinions.  I know for a fact that he has sex with the models because he has told me so and at least two models that have worked with him have told me so.  My understanding of the laws concerning hardcore shoots is that if the person paying the female model is also the one having sex with her and there is no intent to publish the content, then it is not porn but rather prostitution on camera.

I have to say I'd be interested in knowing more about the laws you mention.

Dec 14 12 11:46 am Link

Photographer

Jeffrey M Fletcher

Posts: 4344

Asheville, North Carolina, US

G Anderson Photo wrote:
So, I know of a photographer here on MM that pays models a very high rate for what appears to be artistic nude photos.  A few of those photos are posted on his port for each model to "make it look good".  However I know from models that have worked with him, that there is full hardcore photos/videos produced that he agrees to "never publish".  This makes it hard to recruit models that he works with for legitimate nude and adult modeling gigs as he tells them that they "don't want to have that stuff published just keep it private".   These models are generally new models looking for paid work who have no other history of doing porn or doing escorting.   In my opinion this photog is turning paid nude models into his own personal prostitutes.  I appreciate opinions on this.

So, if I understand this right, you have difficulty recruiting models for nude work, they tell you salacious stories, and you'd now like to give all of us the opportunity to comment on the salacious stories you've printed or offer some of our own.

I'm sorry, your story is not salacious enough. I'll not respond with outrage, tears, pleas for something to be done, nor will I offer any salacious stories to add to this.

Dec 14 12 11:47 am Link

Photographer

John Jebbia

Posts: 27614

Phoenix, Arizona, US

G Anderson Photo wrote:
Thanks for all the replies and opinions.  I know for a fact that he has sex with the models because he has told me so and at least two models that have worked with him have told me so.  My understanding of the laws concerning hardcore shoots is that if the person paying the female model is also the one having sex with her and there is no intent to publish the content, then it is not porn but rather prostitution on camera.

You're absolutely right. I just looked up the Wisconsin State Statute on prostitution and word for word it states:

"Prostitution is defined as a photographer paying a female model for sex on camera with no intention of ever publishing the content. This definition does not apply if the model is male."

God I hate busybodies!

Dec 14 12 11:48 am Link

Photographer

FlirtynFun Photography

Posts: 13152

Houston, Texas, US

G Anderson Photo wrote:
Thanks for all the replies and opinions.  I know for a fact that he has sex with the models because he has told me so and at least two models that have worked with him have told me so.  My understanding of the laws concerning hardcore shoots is that if the person paying the female model is also the one having sex with her and there is no intent to publish the content, then it is not porn but rather prostitution on camera.

I think you've posted this in the wrong forum...go to penthouse.com and look for penthouse forums...then start your rant with "Dear Penthouse Forums"

Dec 14 12 11:50 am Link

Photographer

John Jebbia

Posts: 27614

Phoenix, Arizona, US

OP. Question. Would you be ok with this guy's practices if he wasn't paying them?

Dec 14 12 11:50 am Link

guide forum

Model

Damianne

Posts: 15975

Austin, Texas, US

You can't just lie about your intentions and then that just makes a girl into a prostitute. The girls were fine with it before they showed up or they wouldn't have done it.

But keep fueling your impotent rage at this dude for working with girls that do porn or escort. I mean, do the same kinds of things or just do something else, what do you care about what he's doing.

Dec 14 12 11:58 am Link

Photographer

Leo Howard

Posts: 6794

Phoenix, Arizona, US

John Jebbia wrote:
OP. Question. Would you be ok with this guy's practices if he wasn't paying them?

Doesnt matter John, whether he pays them or not, its none of the OP's fucking business, and you know how I feel about this subject.

Dec 14 12 11:58 am Link

Photographer

G Anderson Photo

Posts: 18

Madison, Wisconsin, US

Stephanie M Retoucher wrote:

Neither party is being coerced - meaning, the guy and the models are all happy with the arrangement.

Please explain how it is any of your business what they are doing?

It is my business because good models that I planned on using for paid LEGIT nude and adult modeling gigs are "taken off the market" because this photog convinces them to "keep things private with him"    There is not much I can do about it.  I am just venting out of frustration.  I try hard to make sure I do everything in a legal manner and try to be familiar with all the laws governing nude, adult and hardcore shoots.   What this photog is doing is unethical in my opinion and is probably illegal.   The models are definitely consenting to the sex so there is no issue there, but I don't think they realize they may be guilty of prostitution in the eyes of the law.

Dec 14 12 11:59 am Link

Photographer

John Jebbia

Posts: 27614

Phoenix, Arizona, US

"I used to be able to fuck models for free. And then some dirt bag came along and started paying them and so now they all want me to pay them too."

Is that the real issue at hand?

Dec 14 12 12:01 pm Link

Photographer

John Jebbia

Posts: 27614

Phoenix, Arizona, US

G Anderson Photo wrote:
It is my business because good models that I planned on using for paid LEGIT nude and adult modeling gigs are "taken off the market" because this photog convinces them to "keep things private with him"    There is not much I can do about it.  I am just venting out of frustration.  I try hard to make sure I do everything in a legal manner and try to be familiar with all the laws governing nude, adult and hardcore shoots.   What this photog is doing is unethical in my opinion and is probably illegal.   The models are definitely consenting to the sex so there is no issue there, but I don't think they realize they may be guilty of prostitution in the eyes of the law.

Oh shut up!

Dec 14 12 12:03 pm Link

Model

a raw muse

Posts: 3196

Amundsen-Scott - permanent station of the US, Unclaimed Sector, Antarctica

If you're really that concerned about it, contact local officials. Posting a thread on MM won't do much to help if there actually is something illegal going on.

Dec 14 12 12:04 pm Link

Photographer

udor

Posts: 22378

New York, New York, US

UltimateAppeal wrote:
Well, unless you were there for the shoots, it sounds like he said she said. Why are you worried about what some one else does?

Exactly!  borat

Dec 14 12 12:08 pm Link

Photographer

G Anderson Photo

Posts: 18

Madison, Wisconsin, US

John Jebbia wrote:

You're absolutely right. I just looked up the Wisconsin State Statute on prostitution and word for word it states:

"Prostitution is defined as a photographer paying a female model for sex on camera with no intention of ever publishing the content. This definition does not apply if the model is male."

God I hate busybodies!

If you want to trivialize something that could possibly give naive young female models a police record go right ahead!     My opinion on the legality comes from ongoing advice from a well known adult industry attorney.   If you would like his name and phone number I would be happy to provide it. 
I don't post on these forums very often.  I thought it might be a good source of intelligent advice and opinions on a situation that concerns me.   Beginning to think I was wrong.   I have plenty of girls to shoot, so what happens with these girls is not the end of my world.

Dec 14 12 12:11 pm Link

Photographer

John Jebbia

Posts: 27614

Phoenix, Arizona, US

G Anderson Photo wrote:
If you want to trivialize something that could possibly give naive young female models a police record go right ahead!     My opinion on the legality comes from ongoing advice from a well known adult industry attorney.   If you would like his name and phone number I would be happy to provide it. 
I don't post on these forums very often.  I thought it might be a good source of intelligent advice and opinions on a situation that concerns me.   Beginning to think I was wrong.   I have plenty of girls to shoot, so what happens with these girls is not the end of my world.

This thread is full of intelligent advice. It's simply: "Mind your own business"

Dec 14 12 12:13 pm Link

Photographer

Stephen Dawson

Posts: 29247

Toronto, Ontario, Canada

G Anderson Photo wrote:
Thanks for all the replies and opinions.  I know for a fact that he has sex with the llamas because he has told me so and at least two llamas that have worked with him have told me so.  My understanding of the laws concerning hardcore shoots is that if the person paying the female llama is also the one having sex with her and there is no intent to publish the content, then it is not porn but rather prostitution on camera.

So what are you going to do about it?

Has any llama asked you for assistance?

Dec 14 12 12:13 pm Link

Photographer

Joseph William

Posts: 2025

Chicago, Illinois, US

I still not getting how he is taking them off the market.  Why do they want unpublished pictures? 

A: they want to have nakie fun time pix for them selves
B: they want to have nakie fun time with him and the pix make it funner for them

If A learn to take the kind of nakie fun pix they want
If B well learn to have the kind of nakie fun time they want

Either way as it stands if the kind of pix / publishing that you offer does not appeal to your target market I don't think they would even if this other guy didn't exist. 

I don't do any kind of nakie pix fun or art so I don't really know.  Just seems to me that if girls want to be paid for nude pix and they like your work they would want to shoot with you regardless of what ever bonus they get from the other dude.  Stop using him as an excuse and figure out how to appeal to the people you want to shoot with because it sounds like money isn't enough.  Plus also a lot of guys tend to brag about girls they have got with even of got was not had.

You sound like the wedding photographers that complain about shoot and burners running their busness.  I say y to them of you can't compleat with shoot and burners you should be doing something else.

Even when paying models you have to sell your self to them they have to think they will get something worth their time even if it is money.

Dec 14 12 12:14 pm Link

Model

Dekilah

Posts: 4890

Detroit, Michigan, US

If he is approaching the models on MM requesting that they shoot porn or other adult content, they should CAM him. MM does not allow adult or porn networking on the site.

If he is shooting content that the models are agreeing to shoot, regardless of any false promises he is making, there is really not much else to be done. I suppose if he signed a contract telling the models he is not going to post the stuff and he is, then maybe the models could try contacting a lawyer, but I am not sure how far that would go.

I am not sure there is really much for you do. You could try warning the models, but in the end the decision is theirs and you may very likely just come off as overbearing.

Also, my view on the definition of a prostitute is someone you pay to have sex with you. If this is going on, though it does not seem to be quite what you are describing, then you should report it, but be aware that the models may get in trouble as well.

Dec 14 12 12:14 pm Link

Photographer

John Jebbia

Posts: 27614

Phoenix, Arizona, US

Joseph William  wrote:
I still not getting how he is taking them off the market.  Why do they want unpublished pictures?

They don't. They want the $$ without the consequences.

Dec 14 12 12:16 pm Link

Photographer

J O H N A L L A N

Posts: 10315

Santa Ana, California, US

@OP: I'm missing the part where this effects you.

Dec 14 12 12:17 pm Link