Aaron Lewis Photography wrote:

Seeing how I'm an IT consultant by trade I have to learn this new animal. I'm trying to give it a chance, I really am. This is on a demo box I'm talking about. Win 7 isn't leaving my workstation anytime soon.

I didn't know you worked in IT.   I primarily use Linux and I didn't find it difficult to use.   As a IT guy you'll need to help customers and like it or not you may have to support Windows 8 in some fashion.   There are some great tutorials around and MSFT does offer some classes.   I posted a link to a W7 shell users can download also.   Sadly it does seem MSFT did a poor job of explaining new things and features.   I kinda had to make it work because I needed Windows on a second laptop and 'm cheap and I didn't want to buy Windows 7.   I borked my install on that machines laptop.   I do think MSFT offers some free one hour classes in NY as well as inexpensive more intense ones as well.

Aaron Lewis Photography wrote:
I like the inability to use the SBS connect feature to join a domain. That makes it nice and easy. After you jump through about 15 hoops to get all the additional crap needed it then tells you simply "Operating system not supported". Really? One more thing that takes us back to the old school way of doing things in Window(s)

Don't worry I'll keep them coming. I'm trying to be open minded here and forget all my previous frustrations but MS is not helping their own cause.

Be back shortly... Hmm I wonder how it behaves with multi monitors. Can I have Metro on one and Traditional on the other?

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2729101

Tony Lawrence wrote:
I didn't know you worked in IT.   I primarily use Linux and I didn't find it difficult to use.   As a IT guy you'll need to help customers and like it or not you may have to support Windows 8 in some fashion.   There are some great tutorials around and MSFT does offer some classes.   I posted a link to a W7 shell users can download also.   Sadly it does seem MSFT did a poor job of explaining new things and features.   I kinda had to make it work because I needed Windows on a second laptop and 'm cheap and I didn't want to buy Windows 7.   I borked my install on that machines laptop.   I do think MSFT offers some free one hour classes in NY as well as inexpensive more intense ones as well.

Yup almost 20 years in the business. I grew up on RedHat starting with 4.0. I ran an ISP for my first 3 years in the industry. Now I'm self employed providing computer networking services to small and medium sized business.

I'm a Microsoft Partner, Cisco certified and lots of other fun credentials.

That's why I find it frustrating. I have no idea how the average person would ever figure it out.

Gutterbound Notions wrote:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2729101

Thanks, it actually did work. I just knew that it hadn't in the past. I guess roll-up 6 has been deployed

Aaron Lewis Photography wrote:

Tony Lawrence wrote:
I didn't know you worked in IT.   I primarily use Linux and I didn't find it difficult to use.   As a IT guy you'll need to help customers and like it or not you may have to support Windows 8 in some fashion.   There are some great tutorials around and MSFT does offer some classes.   I posted a link to a W7 shell users can download also.   Sadly it does seem MSFT did a poor job of explaining new things and features.   I kinda had to make it work because I needed Windows on a second laptop and 'm cheap and I didn't want to buy Windows 7.   I borked my install on that machines laptop.   I do think MSFT offers some free one hour classes in NY as well as inexpensive more intense ones as well.

Yup almost 20 years in the business. I grew up on RedHat starting with 4.0. I ran an ISP for my first 3 years in the industry. Now I'm self employed providing computer networking services to small and medium sized business.

I'm a Microsoft Partner, Cisco certified and lots of other fun credentials.

That's why I find it frustrating. I have no idea how the average person would ever figure it out.


Thanks, it actually did work. I just knew that it hadn't in the past. I guess roll-up 6 has been deployed

So your a Fedora man.   Sorry, I don't speak to Fedora users only Debian people.   Just kidding.   W8 is confusing but if a goof like me can figure it out anybody can.   I also admit to not always following directions.   Part of my problems with Arch and Gentoo.   I just couldn't resist grabbing the free W8 Beta though.    Its faster then W7.    You are also working with servers.   I don't.   Your level of tech knowledge is well beyond mine and anyone who could stomach and use Red Hat and Fedora has to get points...   LOL.

Tony Lawrence wrote:

So your a Fedora man.   Sorry, I don't speak to Fedora users only Debian people.   Just kidding.   W8 is confusing but if a goof like me can figure it out anybody can.   I also admit to not always following directions.   Part of my problems with Arch and Gentoo.   I just couldn't resist grabbing the free W8 Beta though.    Its faster then W7.    You are also working with servers.   I don't.   Your level of tech knowledge is well beyond mine and anyone who could stomach and use Red Hat and Fedora has to get points...   LOL.

I kind of got out of the Linux scene when RedHat got commercialized. I think I only ran the first 2 versions of Fedora and got tired of their new ways. I still ran a RedHat then Trustix domain controller serving as my SAMBA and mail server but that was pretty short lived.

It's all a Windows world now, at least for the moment

Aaron Lewis Photography wrote:
File History, Remote Desktop and SkyDrive are not new.

File History is definitely NOT a replacement for backup. Pleases don't tell people that.  Do you enjoy Windows taking up 4 times the amount of disk space that it needs to in order to keep this stuff around for you?

Remote desktop hasn't really changed. What changes do you think you see?

Sky Drive is just MS online storage, it's been out for a while.

Why are you just discovering Libraries, it's been the way to use Windows since Vista

I'm also glad you're having a good time with drivers, I'm not. No support for many on board Intel video chips, no support for many HP printers.

The guy in that video is helpful but he seems to enjoy and be thrilled about the fact that everything takes 5 additional mouse clicks UNLESS you memorize all the hot keys.

I'm learning my way around but I'm not thrilled. My computers have enough ass that I don't notice any speed differences.

Next

rollout 6 wasn't new either but it didn't stop you from complaining about something that was fixed months ago. (before win8 was released)

Nothing takes 5 more keystrokes then before. A couple things (shutdown) does take one more keystroke. Pretty much everything else is the same or better.

so what are you not thrilled about now?

Next

What Fun Productions wrote:
Weak Windows 8 demand eroding PC sales, Fujitsu president says

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/ … story.html

I wonder why many are resisting?

According to your own article

"The decrease has been fueled by a 24 percent drop in sales of notebook computers as customers opt for Apple Inc.’s iPad or tablets powered by Google Inc.’s Android software."

also from your article

"Dell Inc., the world’s third-largest PC maker, said Dec. 12 it’s seeing strong demand for computers and tablets running Windows 8. Interest in the operating system is “quite high,” Dell Chief Executive Officer Michael Dell said at a conference in Austin, Texas."

Are you like that other guy in this thread that does random google searches hoping they will find something that will back up there bias but then fail to read the result?

Dan K Photography wrote:
rollout 6 wasn't new either but it didn't stop you from complaining about something that was fixed months ago. (before win8 was released)

Nothing takes 5 more keystrokes then before. A couple things (shutdown) does take one more keystroke. Pretty much everything else is the same or better.

so what are you not thrilled about now?

Next

Well I can tell you that my servers are kept very up to date and the first 5 times I installed Win8 I couldn't join an SBS domain using the connect feature. This install worked fine but previous attempts did not.

I'm getting through it. I don't see anything that makes me thing "oh this is great, now I can....." I don't hate it but I'm not thrilled like you are.

What I do see, and again I'm trying to see the upside since I do have to sell this crap, thank you MS, is  a totally new look and feel for everything whcih again will confuse the crap out of everyone.

Think about this scenario. You have a client  with say 40 PC's. Up until now you could swap a PC during someones lunch hour and when they got back they may not even notice you gave them a brand new PC. Other than the start button was now an orb.

Think about what happens now. I take away Win 7 or even XP and give them 8. Do you have any idea what that's going to do to corporate America? Do you have any idea how much time the IT department will spend trying to explain all of this to an accountant or an engineer?

At this point all I'm saying is they've taken everything everyone has learned about the functionality of a PC and thrown it away. Now it's Oh where am I? Should I be using Metro or Standard? When do I use what? How do I get to my printers? Etc.

It's just not going to be pretty, easy or anything else. I'ts going to be a nightmare.

Dan K Photography wrote:
According to your own article

"The decrease has been fueled by a 24 percent drop in sales of notebook computers as customers opt for Apple Inc.’s iPad or tablets powered by Google Inc.’s Android software."

also from your article

"Dell Inc., the world’s third-largest PC maker, said Dec. 12 it’s seeing strong demand for computers and tablets running Windows 8. Interest in the operating system is “quite high,” Dell Chief Executive Officer Michael Dell said at a conference in Austin, Texas."

Are you like that other guy in this thread that does random google searches hoping they will find something that will back up there bias but then fail to read the result?

Initial appetite for the software, introduced in October, is “weak,” Fujitsu President Masami Yamamoto told reporters in Tokyo yesterday.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/ … story.html

Washington Post article quoting a large computer manufacturer.

Here's another:

No Sales Pop for a New Version of Windows
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/24/techn … .html?_r=0

Windows 8 interface called 'disappointing' by usability expert
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2015073/ … xpert.html

Windows 8 sales are sluggish and disappointing at retail and in enterprises. Will they pick up in 2013?
http://blogs.computerworld.com/windows/ … -pick-2013

Again, I ask, I wonder why many are resisting?

Next.

Aaron Lewis Photography wrote:
Well I can tell you that my servers are kept very up to date and the first 5 times I installed Win8 I couldn't join an SBS domain using the connect feature. This install worked fine but previous attempts did not.

I'm getting through it. I don't see anything that makes me thing "oh this is great, now I can....." I don't hate it but I'm not thrilled like you are.

What I do see, and again I'm trying to see the upside since I do have to sell this crap, thank you MS, is  a totally new look and feel for everything whcih again will confuse the crap out of everyone.

Think about this scenario. You have a client  with say 40 PC's. Up until now you could swap a PC during someones lunch hour and when they got back they may not even notice you gave them a brand new PC. Other than the start button was now an orb.

Think about what happens now. I take away Win 7 or even XP and give them 8. Do you have any idea what that's going to do to corporate America? Do you have any idea how much time the IT department will spend trying to explain all of this to an accountant or an engineer?

At this point all I'm saying is they've taken everything everyone has learned about the functionality of a PC and thrown it away. Now it's Oh where am I? Should I be using Metro or Standard? When do I use what? How do I get to my printers? Etc.

It's just not going to be pretty, easy or anything else. I'ts going to be a nightmare.

The thing is I don't see it. It should take about 10 minutes to explain the differences. You make sure they have the same shortcuts as before and they will be happy. When I was working IT I noticed most just use the desktop shortcuts and that is it. The vast majority of workers only use the start button to shut down.

There was life before the start button. There will be life after it.

Everything that was there before is there now. Nothing was taken away.

If you read my OP you will notice the main thing I like is that it is faster. It is faster and it allows me to use windows almost exactly as I did before. Start button start screen?? the difference is so minor it is less then nothing.

Most of my posts on this thread was just me correcting people who thought that win8 wasn't exactly like windows 7. Can't save links on desktop, can't use a shortcut, more mouseclicks to do stuff  etc etc. they say this even though it is exactly the same as before.

Aaron Lewis Photography wrote:

Well I can tell you that my servers are kept very up to date and the first 5 times I installed Win8 I couldn't join an SBS domain using the connect feature. This install worked fine but previous attempts did not.

I'm getting through it. I don't see anything that makes me thing "oh this is great, now I can....." I don't hate it but I'm not thrilled like you are.

What I do see, and again I'm trying to see the upside since I do have to sell this crap, thank you MS, is  a totally new look and feel for everything whcih again will confuse the crap out of everyone.

Think about this scenario. You have a client  with say 40 PC's. Up until now you could swap a PC during someones lunch hour and when they got back they may not even notice you gave them a brand new PC. Other than the start button was now an orb.

Think about what happens now. I take away Win 7 or even XP and give them 8. Do you have any idea what that's going to do to corporate America? Do you have any idea how much time the IT department will spend trying to explain all of this to an accountant or an engineer?

At this point all I'm saying is they've taken everything everyone has learned about the functionality of a PC and thrown it away. Now it's Oh where am I? Should I be using Metro or Standard? When do I use what? How do I get to my printers? Etc.

It's just not going to be pretty, easy or anything else. I'ts going to be a nightmare.

Corporate  America isn't upgrading to Win 8.  Most are still on XP.  The military is just now rolling over to Win 7.  We are still rocking XP but it is starting to show its age.

By the time corporate America upgrades to Win 8, Win 12 will be out.

A Lester II wrote:
Corporate  America isn't upgrading to Win 8.  Most are still on XP.  The military is just now rolling over to Win 7.  We are still rocking XP but it is starting to show its age.

By the time corporate America upgrades to Win 8, Win 12 will be out.

I believe that "customer lag" is true for every computer OS out there.  When a new version of Mac OS comes out, or Linux, or Windows, or whatever, customers are slow to adopt it.  Think about a moderately small company with maybe 4,000 workstations on 4,000 employees' desks.  If an OS update takes just an hour to install (and it usually takes a lot more), that's 100 weeks (or 2 years) worth of work of someone's time, and that's not including all the re-certification of all the essential software running on those workstations.  That's a lot of work & expense & time & disruption. 

So, yes, customers stay on an OS version as long as they can. On the OS company's side, supporting old OS takes a lot of effort, too.  The compromise, the OS companies announce to obsolescence plans for older OSs, forcing customers to update, but at least customers can schedule that work well in advance and can have to option to wait for an apparently stable replacement OS.

Another thing -- we here on this forum are moderately computer savvy, but that is not necessarily so in the workplace.  I remember when I was working for an OS producing company -- I arranged for a customer visit, and while I was talking to a data entry clerk, her manager cleared her computer screen while she was looking & talking with me; when she turned back to her now blank screen, as far as she was concerned, her computer was broken, and she had to call an IT guy to get her screen back.  That left an impression on me.  It's a big deal to change how a computer interacts with its users, and new versions often require training (which is yet another expense).

So, it doesn't matter what OS we are talking about; corporate customers tend not to like change.

Aaron Lewis Photography wrote:

Well I can tell you that my servers are kept very up to date and the first 5 times I installed Win8 I couldn't join an SBS domain using the connect feature. This install worked fine but previous attempts did not.

I'm getting through it. I don't see anything that makes me thing "oh this is great, now I can....." I don't hate it but I'm not thrilled like you are.

What I do see, and again I'm trying to see the upside since I do have to sell this crap, thank you MS, is  a totally new look and feel for everything whcih again will confuse the crap out of everyone.

Think about this scenario. You have a client  with say 40 PC's. Up until now you could swap a PC during someones lunch hour and when they got back they may not even notice you gave them a brand new PC. Other than the start button was now an orb.

Think about what happens now. I take away Win 7 or even XP and give them 8. Do you have any idea what that's going to do to corporate America? Do you have any idea how much time the IT department will spend trying to explain all of this to an accountant or an engineer?

At this point all I'm saying is they've taken everything everyone has learned about the functionality of a PC and thrown it away. Now it's Oh where am I? Should I be using Metro or Standard? When do I use what? How do I get to my printers? Etc.

It's just not going to be pretty, easy or anything else. I'ts going to be a nightmare.

Like noted, most big corporations stick with older software as long as possible. Many are still on XP and some are still on the path to W7.

I manage a smaller office (~25 people) and just handed the first W8 laptop a couple of weeks backs. I was going to explain W8 to the person, but they just said they'd figure it out. I didn't get a call/e-mail with questions, so I assume it's fine. I did offer to install the classic start menu, and if Metro UI was that bad, I'm sure I'd have been asked for it by now.

It's easier dealing with W7/W8 than dealing with XP, and definitely better than dealing with the Macs.

Small Fruit Pits wrote:
Been using Windows since 2.1x

Beyond a doubt.....never get a new version of Windows until after the first major patch is made.

LMAO!

Looknsee Photography wrote:

I believe that "customer lag" is true for every computer OS out there.  When a new version of Mac OS comes out, or Linux, or Windows, or whatever, customers are slow to adopt it.  Think about a moderately small company with maybe 4,000 workstations on 4,000 employees' desks.  If an OS update takes just an hour to install (and it usually takes a lot more), that's 100 weeks (or 2 years) worth of work of someone's time, and that's not including all the re-certification of all the essential software running on those workstations.  That's a lot of work & expense & time & disruption. 

So, yes, customers stay on an OS version as long as they can. On the OS company's side, supporting old OS takes a lot of effort, too.  The compromise, the OS companies announce to obsolescence plans for older OSs, forcing customers to update, but at least customers can schedule that work well in advance and can have to option to wait for an apparently stable replacement OS.

Another thing -- we here on this forum are moderately computer savvy, but that is not necessarily so in the workplace.  I remember when I was working for an OS producing company -- I arranged for a customer visit, and while I was talking to a data entry clerk, her manager cleared her computer screen while she was looking & talking with me; when she turned back to her now blank screen, as far as she was concerned, her computer was broken, and she had to call an IT guy to get her screen back.  That left an impression on me.  It's a big deal to change how a computer interacts with its users, and new versions often require training (which is yet another expense).

So, it doesn't matter what OS we are talking about; corporate customers tend not to like change.

W8 is radically different then previous versions so I get why some people don't like it.   Its similar to what happened when Ubuntu changed to Unity but overall the Linux world is quicker to adapt to change.   The business world is slower to adapt to big changes at times.   Just imagine you have a mid sized company with lots of people who need to use their computers.   Only W8 is causing problems with your servers.   Its also expensive to update.   Mostly its the time lost to not understanding new features.   Since Linux is more used on servers then desktops its not a real problem and many Linux users can make their desktop to look like the DE they want.   

Ubuntu can look like classic GNOME or LXDE or even OSX and Windows.    I'm not a power-user and I didn't have a real problem with it but maybe someone who's easily frustrated would.   I wrestled with Arch Linux so I'm battle tested.

A Lester II wrote:
Corporate  America isn't upgrading to Win 8.  Most are still on XP.  The military is just now rolling over to Win 7.  We are still rocking XP but it is starting to show its age.

By the time corporate America upgrades to Win 8, Win 12 will be out.

Maybe where you live. I have very few clients left with XP boxes and I'm working hard to make them go away since EOL is coming soon. The last thing I want is a client with 50 computers running a no longer supported OS. Then the nightmare of trying to replace them all at the same time.

Since you can't readily buy Win 7 anymore guess what, that means in the course of the next 12 months my clients will have on average 10 - 15 Win 8 boxes in there place of business.

I roll PC's at least every 5 years and try for 4. Servers get replaced every 5 years period

I warned everyone the day was coming and tried to push as much Win 7 stuff out there as I could but some people just don't listen.

Looknsee Photography wrote:
Sometimes, when I read this (and other) threads, I wonder about each poster:  Does the poster want Windows 8 to succeed or fail?

Anyone want to tell us?

I don't care if it succeeds or fails. I no longer have financial interest in MS. Since it is a major release and it has a server edition tied to it, it'll most likely succeed.

I'm not saying I love it or hate it but it's going to cause some pain.

The bad thing on everyone's part is that MS totally abandon Win7. Not a smart move in my opinion. Historically the preceding OS was kept available for quite some time when new OSs rolled out. You could order a PC with either. Not the case this time

Dan K Photography wrote:
Are you like that other guy in this thread that does random google searches hoping they will find something that will back up there bias but then fail to read the result?

Ah, taking pot shots again, typical of the M$ fanboi.  LOL

Aaron, you can't argue or prove a point to someone like that.

I was running Mandrake before Fedora, didn't like the direction Fedora was headed.  I did RH and Ubuntu.  I've also got over 20 years IT experience with troubleshooting, desktop support and networking, including Novell, AS400 and Unix.

So jump back on your little M$ bandwagon and see if you can really get someone to believe any M$ OS doesnt have its own issues.  When they come out with some service packs maybe you can read something about what they may have fixed.

Aaron Lewis Photography wrote:
File History, Remote Desktop and SkyDrive are not new.

File History is definitely NOT a replacement for backup. Pleases don't tell people that.  Do you enjoy Windows taking up 4 times the amount of disk space that it needs to in order to keep this stuff around for you?

Remote desktop hasn't really changed. What changes do you think you see?

Sky Drive is just MS online storage, it's been out for a while.

Why are you just discovering Libraries, it's been the way to use Windows since Vista

I'm also glad you're having a good time with drivers, I'm not. No support for many on board Intel video chips, no support for many HP printers.

The guy in that video is helpful but he seems to enjoy and be thrilled about the fact that everything takes 5 additional mouse clicks UNLESS you memorize all the hot keys.

I'm learning my way around but I'm not thrilled. My computers have enough ass that I don't notice any speed differences.

Next

Remote desktop is considerably faster on identical hardware and identical bandwidth.  I can play music and videos (withing reason, not watching blu-rays) over RDP in Win8 which would stutter and stall on RDP in Win7.  Using a browser over RDP is also vastly better.  This is just standard RDP.  I know there is 3D virtualization but that requires a server environment that supports it and I don't have the time, care, or resources to set up.

Built in Hyper-V for free is fantastic and works incredibly well (I had major issues with what was offered in Win7).

Storage Spaces have potential for certain very specific scenarios (I wouldn't use them in a business environment, but, say a home movie server or the like...)

Bonus that is undocumented, but I actually used.  I had to upgrade my home server (older PC I use for storage and virtualization tasks).  Namely, the older MB decided to start flaking out, and I couldn't find a replacement for that socket that wasn't insanely expensive, so I ended up with a new MB and CPU.  I fully expected I'd have to reinstall the OS to get the correct HAL drivers up and running (which has been the case on Windows for a long time), but as soon as I booted up, it booted.  Automatically checked and updated drivers.  Complained about activation due to being on new hardware.  Did a quick online verification, re-activated, and has been running flawlessly ever since.

What Fun Productions wrote:

Initial appetite for the software, introduced in October, is “weak,” Fujitsu President Masami Yamamoto told reporters in Tokyo yesterday.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/ … story.html

Washington Post article quoting a large computer manufacturer.

Here's another:

No Sales Pop for a New Version of Windows
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/24/techn … .html?_r=0

Windows 8 interface called 'disappointing' by usability expert
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2015073/ … xpert.html

Windows 8 sales are sluggish and disappointing at retail and in enterprises. Will they pick up in 2013?
http://blogs.computerworld.com/windows/ … -pick-2013

Again, I ask, I wonder why many are resisting?

Next.

PC makers were supposed to have Windows 8 ready (as in touch enabled) products out at launch and most utterly failed to live up to their own promises making the Windows 8 launch more paper than reality.  Hell, most of them won't be shipping their first wave of products until January or worse.

PC sales were declining all on their own.  Microsoft produced something for the PC industry to rally around and generate some buzz, something that was actually new.

As is often the case in the PC industry, the PC makers then proceeded to pull out guns, take aim, and shoot themselves in the foot.

Microsoft did a great deal to help screw things up by releasing their new operating system and then, along with it, releasing their new signature hardware with an OS that wasn't Windows 8.  (Microsoft was terrified that Intel wouldn't be able to catch up to ARM so bent over backwards getting Windows on ARM.  Intel has pretty well managed to catch up and now Microsoft is stuck selling hardware that doesn't work with 99.9999% of the reason you'd buy a PC in the first place).

The OS is just fine.  The marketing is a fiasco.

Digitoxin wrote:
Watching football now... Win 8 ads have been on quite a bit.....

They all show a large Panel-type PC that is touch....

I have yet to see any ads for "run of the mill" non-touch screen PCs.  Are there any ads for this "normal" stuff?

Why is MS pushing touch when, I would guess, that the vast majority of PCs with win 8 are not touch capable?

A new OS is not built to sell what's already out there.  They're produced to sell what's coming next.

GCobb Photography wrote:
Ah, taking pot shots again, typical of the M$ fanboi.  LOL

Aaron, you can't argue or prove a point to someone like that.

I was running Mandrake before Fedora, didn't like the direction Fedora was headed.  I did RH and Ubuntu.  I've also got over 20 years IT experience with troubleshooting, desktop support and networking, including Novell, AS400 and Unix.

So jump back on your little M$ bandwagon and see if you can really get someone to believe any M$ OS doesnt have its own issues.  When they come out with some service packs maybe you can read something about what they may have fixed.

Truth is not taking pot shots. You and he did exactly as I said. You were so pathetic that you ran away when you discovered how foolish you were. twice.

Nothing I have done has been anywhere as silly as that.

Fanboy indeed.

My point is that it is faster then win 8 and if you want it is exactly the same as win7 with very minor changes.

Your point is what exactly? That you cannot solve a problem that was there since win7?

Of course they will issue fixes all programs do. But what you have shown is the inability to find any problems.

Gutterbound Notions wrote:

A new OS is not built to sell what's already out there.  They're produced to sell what's coming next.

Except, there appears to be little hardware on the market that is "next"..... It is still the "old"....  So, it's seems, that MS is spending a bunch of money advertising this fancy new touch enabled OS to customers who can only buy it in a standard old, non-touch, clamshell.  Not a wise way to manage customer expectations?

Digitoxin wrote:

Except, there appears to be little hardware on the market that is "next"..... It is still the "old"....  So, it's seems, that MS is spending a bunch of money advertising this fancy new touch enabled OS to customers who can only buy it in a standard old, non-touch, clamshell.  Not a wise way to manage customer expectations?

This is not MS's doing.  I covered it in another post.

Gutterbound Notions wrote:
This is not MS's doing.  I covered it in another post.

I read your other post.  I understand.  BUT....

If you ran MS, would you have moved ahead with these ads at this time?  Or, would you have pulled them in favor of ads that extol some other Win 8 virtue that consumers can actually use NOW?

It does seem to me that MS is making the issues worse....  Consumers see the ad and say "that's cool, let me go play with it in the store."  Then, when they arrive in the stores they find that there are few if any touch machines...... That would seem to me to add even more to the confusion and likely cause consumers to POSTPONE buying now......

When the touch machines are ready, run the ads then.

AdelaideJohn1967 wrote:
Hey do you guys in the US get the crazy ad for Windows Surface tablets with people dancing around and swapping / throwing their tablets?

Yes.

Snap, snap goes the cover. 

Somebody at MS in charge of their advertising department needs to rethink a few things.  Compare that ad to the ad from Amazon (kindle) a couple of years ago (still motion woman getting into all different outfits -- like a novel -- "silver moons and paper dreams", and the one with the song "sweet talk" from the New Pornographers, I think)... Makes the product both appealing and hip.

Dancing snap snap makes the product look stupid, at least to me.

Dan K Photography wrote:
Truth is not taking pot shots. You and he did exactly as I said. You were so pathetic that you ran away when you discovered how foolish you were. twice.

Nothing I have done has been anywhere as silly as that.

Fanboy indeed.

My point is that it is faster then win 8 and if you want it is exactly the same as win7 with very minor changes.

Your point is what exactly? That you cannot solve a problem that was there since win7?

Of course they will issue fixes all programs do. But what you have shown is the inability to find any problems.

Just to be clear all I've done is state my personal experiences and observations.
I've come back and tried to convey each new hurdle or overcoming of hurdles.
I've admitted that it's not quite as terrible as I first expected and with each experience it's easier to get around.
I've learned how to do certain things and once you figure it out, it's pretty easy to navigate.

I have not run away
I have not seen anything fabulous making it worth my aggravation to migrate to this new OS
Nor do I see any selling points that I should or can use to migrate my clients other than, we don't have a choice.

RDP, blue-ray? Why on earth would anyone be watching a blue-ray disk over RDP? I have never found RDP to be slow in any way shape or form since XP. I use it over VPN's and directly to remote hosts. Either way it's very close to being as fast as being there. Admittedly I've never tried to watch a move in an RDP session

I guess I just don't seen the benefits, if there are any. What I see is a learning curve and time wasted trying to figure how to the things I've done every day for the last 20 years.

One thing I do see as a potential issue is because it's no really clear what apps are open / running like it was on the task bar, I'm guessing that people will be opening multiple instances of programs tying up system resources. Then yelling that their computer is slow

Aaron Lewis Photography wrote:
Just to be clear all I've done is state my personal experiences and observations.
I've come back and tried to convey each new hurdle or overcoming of hurdles.
I've admitted that it's not quite as terrible as I first expected and with each experience it's easier to get around.
I've learned how to do certain things and once you figure it out, it's pretty easy to navigate.

I have not run away
I have not seen anything fabulous making it worth my aggravation to migrate to this new OS
Nor do I see any selling points that I should or can use to migrate my clients other than, we don't have a choice.

RDP, blue-ray? Why on earth would anyone be watching a blue-ray disk over RDP? I have never found RDP to be slow in any way shape or form since XP. I use it over VPN's and directly to remote hosts. Either way it's very close to being as fast as being there. Admittedly I've never tried to watch a move in an RDP session

I guess I just don't seen the benefits, if there are any. What I see is a learning curve and time wasted trying to figure how to the things I've done every day for the last 20 years.

One thing I do see as a potential issue is because it's no really clear what apps are open / running like it was on the task bar, I'm guessing that people will be opening multiple instances of programs tying up system resources. Then yelling that their computer is slow

You were not referenced in that post at all. That was for Gcobb and What fun. Sorry for any confusion.

What do you mean no clear way to see what was running? If in Desktop it is the same as before. If it is Modern apps you just put your mouse on top left and pull down.

Why are you refusing to look at the 4 minute video I posted? It explains all your difficulties.

You actually watched that garbage anti win8 video that really is not beneficial in any way but not the helpful link. The mind boggles.

Secondly as I also mentioned before in this thread you are not supposed to close modern apps just switch to and from them. Trying to open another instance will just switch task to the already open one. Same as in android or ios.

Dan K Photography wrote:

You were not referenced in that post at all. That was for Gcobb and What fun. Sorry for any confusion.

What do you mean no clear way to see what was running? If in Desktop it is the same as before. If it is Modern apps you just put your mouse on top left and pull down.

Why are you refusing to look at the 4 minute video I posted? It explains all your difficulties.

You actually watched that garbage anti win8 video that really is not beneficial in any way but not the helpful link. The mind boggles.

Secondly as I also mentioned before in this thread you are not supposed to close modern apps just switch to and from them. Trying to open another instance will just switch task to the already open one. Same as in android or ios.

Oh sorry. No I watched your video, I said previously that it was a huge help and I was amazed at the amount of insanity they cleared up for me in 3 minutes.

I understand the Desktop is the same or very close to it. The issue is the OS boots to the Metro desktop where I know how now, but most people will be liek WTF, how do I know what's open.

Aaron Lewis Photography wrote:

Just to be clear all I've done is state my personal experiences and observations.
I've come back and tried to convey each new hurdle or overcoming of hurdles.
I've admitted that it's not quite as terrible as I first expected and with each experience it's easier to get around.
I've learned how to do certain things and once you figure it out, it's pretty easy to navigate.

I have not run away
I have not seen anything fabulous making it worth my aggravation to migrate to this new OS
Nor do I see any selling points that I should or can use to migrate my clients other than, we don't have a choice.

RDP, blue-ray? Why on earth would anyone be watching a blue-ray disk over RDP? I have never found RDP to be slow in any way shape or form since XP. I use it over VPN's and directly to remote hosts. Either way it's very close to being as fast as being there. Admittedly I've never tried to watch a move in an RDP session

I guess I just don't seen the benefits, if there are any. What I see is a learning curve and time wasted trying to figure how to the things I've done every day for the last 20 years.

One thing I do see as a potential issue is because it's no really clear what apps are open / running like it was on the task bar, I'm guessing that people will be opening multiple instances of programs tying up system resources. Then yelling that their computer is slow

The comments about RDP and video actually came from me.  At home I frequently RDP into work.  At work I frequently have multiple RDP sessions going and one of them is to my computer at home.  I've been known to have music or videos (podcasts) running over it and with all other hardware and bandwidth the same, I can say that the Windows 8 RDP client runs significantly smoother than the Windows 7 one.

Your comment about apps makes no sense.  Regular apps you can see what's running in exactly all the same ways you used to.  Metro apps don't run multiple copies.  There's an app bar for metro to switch between open apps or close them, and if you hit an icon on the start screen that's for an already open app it just takes you back to the application.  Also metro apps don't actually run in the background like regular apps do.  If they're off screen they're in a suspended state and not pulling resources.