Photographer
TheCustomTs
Posts: 24
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
The title sounds dirtier than the subject actually is, but I have been pondering lately...
I have recently started browsing for models for when I am in Vancouver and I have to say at least 75% of portfolios include some sort of nude shots in them. Some of these models are gorgeous with their clothing on, but seeing them without in non artistic seemingly pointless nude shots sort of ruins it for me. I don't have a problem with nudes at all, if someone wants to do them go for it.
My questions are to photographers and models who do not enjoy doing nudes.
Photographers: Do you feel there is an excess amount of nudes in comparison to the actual demand? Will tasteless nudes make you think twice about working with a model (male or female)?
Models: Do you sometimes feel work is to sparse and that nudes may help further your career? Have you done nudes and now feel pigeonholed/ concerned you may become pigeonholed?
Please remember, this is only a question to those who do not fully enjoy doing nudes but do them anyways. Not knocking those who do, just see massss amounts, with and without models who could do fine without them.
Model
Laura BrokenDoll
Posts: 3566
Modena, Emilia-Romagna, Italy
Not enjoying doing something and still doing it seems pretty dumb to me anyway 
Photographer
Brian Scanlon
Posts: 838
Encino, California, US
Laura BrokenDoll wrote:
Not enjoying doing something and still doing it seems pretty dumb to me anyway Unless your getting paid to do it.
Photographer
Art of the nude
Posts: 12067
Grand Rapids, Michigan, US
TheCustomTs wrote:
The title sounds dirtier than the subject actually is, but I have been pondering lately...
I have recently started browsing for models for when I am in Vancouver and I have to say at least 75% of portfolios include some sort of nude shots in them. Some of these models are gorgeous with their clothing on, but seeing them without in non artistic seemingly pointless nude shots sort of ruins it for me. I don't have a problem with nudes at all, if someone wants to do them go for it.
My questions are to photographers and models who do not enjoy doing nudes.
Photographers: Do you feel there is an excess amount of nudes in comparison to the actual demand? Will tasteless nudes make you think twice about working with a model (male or female)?
Models: Do you sometimes feel work is to sparse and that nudes may help further your career? Have you done nudes and now feel pigeonholed/ concerned you may become pigeonholed?
Please remember, this is only a question to those who do not fully enjoy doing nudes but do them anyways. Not knocking those who do, just see massss amounts, with and without models who could do fine without them. There aren't more nudes than demand. And quality nudes don't bother me, crappy pictures do.
And, finally, site administrators have said that about 10% of images on MM are "M". And, in general, 10-15% of models say yes to nudes. Not 75% or anything close.
Photographer
Jeffrey M Fletcher
Posts: 4861
Asheville, North Carolina, US
The title is the best part, once you elaborated it went straight downhill.
and there are too many clothed shots.
Photographer
MN camera
Posts: 1862
Saint Paul, Minnesota, US
Photographer
christopher harvey
Posts: 44
New York, New York, US
Aren't pigeons always nude? it's not like a dog you can put a stupid sweater on.
Photographer
AndyD10
Posts: 352
Dublin, Dublin, Ireland
Model
Natasha Vaughn
Posts: 75
Delray Beach, Florida, US
Brian Scanlon wrote:
Unless your getting paid to do it. Personally I think money will only push someone limits so far.
In response to OP-
I think most people who do nude work...enjoy nude work.
Also as it has been stated nude images aren't the majority of images on MM.
As a model, I do nude work if I like the photographers work and it is in good taste..and in my taste.
I do it because the human form is something that has been captured nude for quite a while.
I do it because nudity is interesting, it is someone at there vulnerable point, I find that beautiful.
I also do not find it "pigeon holes" me in the least. I am now starting to do a fair amount of fashion/editorial style photography. Which came out of doing nudes with a photographer.
If you can be comfortable and photograph well naked. I think you can photograph well and be comfortable in most anything. it helps you understand your anatomy, your lines, and be secure in your body.
If anything it opens up more work.
But this is just one opinion 
Photographer
Dan K Photography
Posts: 5581
STATEN ISLAND, New York, US
Nude is what gets you paid on MM.
Photographer
AJ_In_Atlanta
Posts: 13053
Atlanta, Georgia, US
Bad images simply tell me the model should not select their own shots. Not that it's uncommon and you will never see an agency booker letting a model do it, it's not what they are expected to do.
I don't care if it's nude or clothed as long as I can tell if the model can model and what they look like.
Model
angel emily
Posts: 1020
Boston, Massachusetts, US
TheCustomTs wrote:
Models: Do you sometimes feel work is to sparse and that nudes may help further your career? Have you done nudes and now feel pigeonholed/ concerned you may become pigeonholed? I worked full time as a professional traveling "MM" art nude model for a few years. I was great at it and it paid all my bills, including my student loans.
I chose to forgo that path and pursue mainstream agency commercial work for several reasons -- most of which is because I no longer found joy in it. (No "that's too bad" remarks, please -- I'm much happier doing what I'm doing now and I feel I'm just as good at it, too!)
As a model, you are only worth the value someone else finds in you. But sometimes it's about finding different crowds. For me, I was able to find different crowds with different values. (And I'm not talking about "values and morals" -- I'm talking about the value find in your look/work.) People here only see/saw value in me if I posed nude -- I found once I got off MM, I was able to do much more.
FWIW, I'm not against nudes, even now. I was topless doing a commercial spa shoot, I have no issue against it. I just want them done well and with purpose, like everything else. I've run into many photographers here who feel that because you've done nudes, that automatically means you'll pose nude for them, too. I've run into many photographers here who felt that because they were willing to pay, models shouldn't refuse posing nude for them. I've run into photographers here who feel "nudes for no purpose" (or, more accurately, "personal purpose" disguised as art) is acceptable, especially if they're paying. I may have accepted these offers before, but I don't and won't now. For that reason, I don't advertise that I'm open to nude projects here because so many photographers would scream "bait and switch".
In truth, I am more than just doing nudes and here I can't be a "model who does nudes", I'm branded a "nude model" and that's all anyone ever wants to shoot or see me as -- and it says nothing about my potential in other areas because the majority of people here aren't shooting anything else but what they want, and that's nudes.
In short -- models who want to be successful modeling in other areas (outside of nude modeling) need to get off MM, find people who value other kind of work, and try with them.
Model
Nym Faea
Posts: 650
San Francisco, California, US
The circumstances where being a nude llama has impacted non nude offers are few, but they do happen. I know that if I focused more on fashion, I could get more of those gigs - though, without an agency, it's like pulling teeth trying to find one that pays. I contacted one photographer regarding a casting call. His reply went something like this."You're a great llama, but I don't want to work with you, because if I shoot you clothed, everyone will think that I also shot you nude, but I just don't post those pictures." Or something ridiculous like that. There are some people who think that I only look good without clothes on. There are many more who realize that a good nude llama is often more aware of her body, and thus a better poser. And, for the record, I do generally look and pose better without clothes. So I'll curl up in my little pigeon hole and make a nest
Model
MelissaAnn
Posts: 3971
Seattle, Washington, US
I enjoy doing nudes. I don't care about being pigeon-holed, because if I wasn't doing nudes, I wouldn't be doing modeling at all since I'm too old, I don't have fashion stats, and I'm not into doing lingerie/glamour.
I don't think there are too many nude images on MM. It's funny how some people choose to fixate on the nudes, claiming they make up most of what gets posted to MM. A simple search proves that's not true.
There are not too many nude models, since it's obvious that there's more demand than supply. I'ts generally much easier for nude models to find work (on MM) than it is for models who don't do nudes.
Model
Dekilah
Posts: 5236
Dearborn, Michigan, US
The reality of my situation is that outside of more explicit content, nudes are the only way anyone is likely to pay me to model, mostly due to my height (4'10"). When I first started posing nude I thought it was awesome that I was getting paid finally, but it did start to bug me after a while that no one wanted to shoot me in any other genres for paid shoots. Even trying to book TF work for other genres was not happening. People either wanted to shoot me nude or not at all, with the exception of bridal and that was because I had a dress they wanted to shoot.
So I found my way out: I just started shooting myself. Now I can shoot beauty, and pretty lingerie, and even high fashion type stuff all I want. And the crazy thing is... now other people want to shoot those things with me too sometimes. Unfortunately now it is just easier for me to shoot myself unless someone awesome asks me to shoot. So it is a never ending cycle I guess.
Photographer
Robbie Wolf Photography
Posts: 569
Phoenix, Arizona, US
NYMPH wrote:
I contacted one photographer regarding a casting call. His reply went something like this."You're a great model, but I don't want to work with you, because if I shoot you clothed, everyone will think that I also shot you nude, but I just don't post those pictures." Or something ridiculous like that. That is ridiculous. I could careless what people think might be on my hard drive. In fact if that reasoning were true you should see my collection. lol.
Did a "normal" shoot with a fetish model in Florida once. Probably am the only photographer that has pics with her clothes on. They came out great. Would have loved to do a fetish shoot with her too but never got around to it before we moved out of state.
Model
Jordan L Duncan
Posts: 207
Jacksonville, Florida, US
I went a long time without doing nudes even though I wanted to because I was afraid of the backlash from my family and friends. Eventually I got over and went for it and I loved it. I won't lie, getting more work was a factor, but it had more to do with experiencing something exciting and new. I still get that same rush every time I have a nude shoot so its worth it to me. The day that I stop getting that rush, I'll scale it back.
I try to make it a point to make my nude shoots artistic and tell a story and not just, "hey lookit mah bewbies!" but only a part of the work is mine. When discussing ideas with a photographer I try to make it clear that I want to tell a story. Sometimes it doesn't work out that way and sometimes I work with someone who really gets me. When that happens it feels... so so so good, and makes all the not as good experiences not matter at all.
Model
Jordan L Duncan
Posts: 207
Jacksonville, Florida, US
model emily wrote:
I've run into many photographers here who feel that because you've done nudes, that automatically means you'll pose nude for them, too. This x 1000000000!
"Hey let's shoot some lingerie"
"Yeah great"
click click click "Nice. Okay let's get rid of the bra and panties..."
Model
Jordan L Duncan
Posts: 207
Jacksonville, Florida, US
Dekilah wrote:
The reality of my situation is that outside of more explicit content, nudes are the only way anyone is likely to pay me to model, mostly due to my height (4'10"). When I first started posing nude I thought it was awesome that I was getting paid finally, but it did start to bug me after a while that no one wanted to shoot me in any other genres for paid shoots. Even trying to book TF work for other genres was not happening. People either wanted to shoot me nude or not at all, with the exception of bridal and that was because I had a dress they wanted to shoot. Again, me too. I don't have model stats either. I'm not going to kid myself and think I have a snowball's chance in Hades in getting paid runway jobs. Luckily for me I love shooting nude so I don't care all that much about that being the majority of my offers.
Model
angel emily
Posts: 1020
Boston, Massachusetts, US
Jordan L Duncan wrote:
This x 1000000000!
"Hey let's shoot some lingerie"
"Yeah great"
click click click "Nice. Okay let's get rid of the bra and panties..." Yikes!
I meant in the planning stage. No-one has ever pulled a "fast one" on me like that.  You'd be in the full right to say no if nudes weren't agreed upon!
"Shoots Nudes" just doesn't always mean shoots nudes with everrrybodddy and annnnyybodyyy. It's more like:
"Hey I have nude project"
"No thanks"
"WHY?? I'm offering pay! Your profile says you do nudes! BAIT AND SWITCH, BAIT AND SWITCH!"
Model
Stray Kat
Posts: 90
Morris, Illinois, US
christopher harvey wrote:
Aren't pigeons always nude? it's not like a dog you can put a stupid sweater on. I think if you plucked them they would look nude?!?
Photographer
NewBoldPhoto
Posts: 5216
PORT MURRAY, New Jersey, US
MelissaAnn wrote:
I enjoy doing nudes. I don't care about being pigeon-holed, because if I wasn't doing nudes, I wouldn't be doing modeling at all since I'm too old, I don't have fashion stats, and I'm not into doing lingerie/glamour.
I don't think there are too many nude images on MM. It's funny how some people choose to fixate on the nudes, claiming they make up most of what gets posted to MM. A simple search proves that's not true.
There are not too many nude models, since it's obvious that there's more demand than supply. I'ts generally much easier for nude models to find work (on MM) than it is for models who don't do nudes. Wise women are soo sexy.
Photographer
Section 008
Posts: 98
Chicago, Illinois, US
Model
angel emily
Posts: 1020
Boston, Massachusetts, US
Section 008 wrote:
nudity is ... just is. Except for some, it just... isn't.
Model
No longer active-
Posts: 281
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Lol @ TheCustomTs wrote:
The title sounds dirtier than the subject actually is... Vancouver has tons of beautiful models I have a list of some of my favs https://www.modelmayhem.com/list/561922
Have fun on the west coast
Photographer
Garry k
Posts: 30128
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
TheCustomTs wrote:
The title sounds dirtier than the subject actually is, but I have been pondering lately...
I have recently started browsing for models for when I am in Vancouver and I have to say at least 75% of portfolios include some sort of nude shots in them. . Vancouver Washington ?
Photographer
Michael Cordiez
Posts: 374
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
TheCustomTs wrote:
I have recently started browsing for models for when I am in Vancouver and I have to say at least 75% of portfolios include some sort of nude shots in them. Some of these models are gorgeous with their clothing on, but seeing them without in non artistic seemingly pointless nude shots sort of ruins it for me. I don't have a problem with nudes at all, if someone wants to do them go for it.
My questions are to photographers and models who do not enjoy doing nudes.
Photographers: Do you feel there is an excess amount of nudes in comparison to the actual demand? Will tasteless nudes make you think twice about working with a model (male or female)?
Are you sure you're searching the right Vancouver? Vancouver is a pretty conservative city when it comes to modelling nude. Only about 15% of MM models have nudes = yes. That is of course a pretty bad indicator as you have to remove those that consider implied as being nude and add in those who will shoot nudes but don't advertise it. But I bet you still end-up in the lower end of the 10-20% range.
a) Locally speaking, is there an excess of nudes compared to the demand?
I'd say there is far more demand than supply, so no, there's no excess IMHO compared to what the MM "market" wants.
b) Will a portfolio of tasteless nudes make me think twice about working with a model?
The "nude" part of that question is not that relevant. The only question for me is "would a model, even with a portfolio of what I consider to be total crap, be a good fit for what I would like to shoot?".
And seeing a portfolio of "tasteless" nudes would not "ruin it for me" and would not result in my viewing that person differently.
Photographer
Eric212Grapher
Posts: 3770
Saint Louis, Missouri, US
TheCustomTs wrote:
--snip--
My questions are to photographers and models who do not enjoy doing nudes.
Photographers: Do you feel there is an excess amount of nudes in comparison to the actual demand? Will tasteless nudes make you think twice about working with a model (male or female)?
--snip--
Please remember, this is only a question to those who do not fully enjoy doing nudes but do them anyways. Not knocking those who do, just see massss amounts, with and without models who could do fine without them. I enjoy the nudes, and I am answering your question anyhow. To restrict your question to those already agreeing with your basic position seems meaningless.
If I'm looking for a nude model, there never seems to be enough. I do not care if the nude model has gorgeous nude shots, poor nude shots, or no nude shots in her portfolio. I'm not trying to duplicate her portfolio. I'm trying to build my own, with my style - whatever that turns out to be.
If I'm looking for a fashion model, I generally think most nude models will wear clothes if asked. I do not know of any nude model who has refused to wear clothing, but I suppose there might be a few.
Model
Jen B
Posts: 4474
Phoenix, Arizona, US
Dan K Photography wrote:
Nude is what gets you paid on MM. Creative drive, expression and creativity are why shooting nudes are worth it for me, (I'm trade only for now.)
Jen
p.s. edit to add: and I do love doing runway shows and fashion every chance I can!
Photographer
Jon Winkleman Photo
Posts: 152
Providence, Rhode Island, US
Photographs that display the bodies of a model whether nude or partially nude are a useful résumé of the body you are hiring be it for a clothes or nude shoot. When looking at a model's portfolio I am not shopping for clothes, shoes or accesories. The more information I have regarding the size and shape of the manikin the more informed of a choice I can make as to which model will work best. I would be reluctant to hire someone for a short sleeve photo if they are only wearing bulky long sleeve sweaters in their portfolio.
I have an equal problem with models that have exquisite body and physique photos but do not have a single clear headshot. It is also helpful if a model's portfolio has a headshot with a wide open smile so I can see if they have good teeth.
Also different models find different niches. Warhol muse Joe Dallesandro was shot by Avedon, Ken Duncan, Scavullo and Annie Liebowitz. The vast majority of his photos were physique photos that were nudes or partial nudes. Dallesandro had a beautifully photographic face and body but at 5'6" he couldn't do mens high fashion. Also models generally can set a higher rates for nudes. For actors acne cream, tampons and constipation commercials pay more. Some pros don't care for those associations others make the business decision to take the higher paying gig.
Photographer
Doug Osborn
Posts: 29
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
I believe the correct term is "cloacca" :-)
Model
Just Donna
Posts: 7
Buffalo, New York, US
Laura BrokenDoll wrote:
Not enjoying doing something and still doing it seems pretty dumb to me anyway Exactly!!! I enjoy doing both nudes and clothed. For the most part, I don't even think about the fact that I'm nude and I've never been asked to do tasteless nude shots. (I would say no to that - my rule is, nothing I'd be embarrassed for my father or daughter to see).
On the other hand, it's SO much fun putting on different outfits too, so I'm starting to branch out to different photographers. The whole modeling thing for me started with nudes and I never expected to be doing photographs at all. Just planned on posing for art classes, and it was an assignment to myself to get over my shyness about my body. Now, I'm completely comfortable with it.
I think that being pigeonholed is your choice. You just have to do some networking to find photographers that want to work with you in either genre.
Photographer
K E E L I N G
Posts: 39894
Peoria, Illinois, US
TheCustomTs wrote:
Some of these models are gorgeous with their clothing on, but seeing them without in non artistic seemingly pointless nude shots sort of ruins it for me.
Photographers: Do you feel there is an excess amount of nudes in comparison to the actual demand? Will tasteless nudes make you think twice about working with a model (male or female)?
Models: Do you sometimes feel work is to sparse and that nudes may help further your career? Have you done nudes and now feel pigeonholed/ concerned you may become pigeonholed? I don't enjoy doing nudes with models who aren't up to the standard of what's already in my portfolio and don't do them unless I'm paid. However it has nothing to do with anything being "ruined" for me, it's simply because one should always strive to improve their portfolio and if that's not happening there's no reason to shoot whether the model is clothed OR nude.
Of course pay is the most legitimate reason of all for someone whose livelihood is as a photographer.
I think the more interesting question to me is... why does what someone does with another photographer whether it's quality work or not "ruin" it for you? The model looks the same when she gets to you no matter what she's done before, she either has the right look or doesn't.
Photographer
Jerry Nemeth
Posts: 33355
Dearborn, Michigan, US
Garry k wrote:
Vancouver Washington ? Probably not.
Model
narie
Posts: 102
Sydney, New South Wales, Australia
Maybe my response will not matter as I have only done a few implied but regarding the pigeon hole feeling... I've gotten it a few times. And I do really feel the pressure like they're trying to push to see how far I'll go. I have stated no nudes on my profile but sometimes during a shoot (i've only done TF work so far) they ask why I don't do nudes, and I've made the mistake with saying that I don't mind doing a few implied if they want a couple images of that. And then suddenly from that point the rest of the shoot becomes implied, and I leave wondering if I even got any shots for my portfolio, but I find it difficult to say no after I've said I'm ok. Though not standing up for myself is my own fault and I know that, so now I know not to mention that in the future. I am still new and learning. This has happend a few times... where the second I say I don't mind doing them the rest of the shoot ends up them pushing me to do it... and nothing we discussed in emails etc. Though I understand not all photographers are like this and I've met some lovely people on MM I am not offended by full on nudes at all. I am an artist and have painted/drawn nude figures many times before. I am just not comfortable with myself at this point in time.
Model
Dekilah
Posts: 5236
Dearborn, Michigan, US
Dekilah (me) wrote:
The reality of my situation is that outside of more explicit content, nudes are the only way anyone is likely to pay me to model, mostly due to my height (4'10"). When I first started posing nude I thought it was awesome that I was getting paid finally, but it did start to bug me after a while that no one wanted to shoot me in any other genres for paid shoots. Even trying to book TF work for other genres was not happening. People either wanted to shoot me nude or not at all, with the exception of bridal and that was because I had a dress they wanted to shoot. Jordan L Duncan wrote:
Again, me too. I don't have model stats either. I'm not going to kid myself and think I have a snowball's chance in Hades in getting paid runway jobs. Luckily for me I love shooting nude so I don't care all that much about that being the majority of my offers. Yep, I love shooting nudes, too. But in my case I also wanted to try some new things as well. Nudes are still the majority of what I shoot, even in my self portraits. I just add in the fun make-up and partial outfits.
I think for me another big part of the issue was in my area at the time (Knoxville, TN) I was one of the very few art nude models around. Now there are more, but a few years ago I was one of a handful that would pose for full nudes and one of even fewer who knew how to pose and took things seriously.
Photographer
Srefis
Posts: 960
Asheville, North Carolina, US
Laura BrokenDoll wrote:
Not enjoying doing something and still doing it seems pretty dumb to me anyway Yea my day job is dumb
Model
Koryn
Posts: 39496
Boston, Massachusetts, US
While I always enjoyed posing nude, I will say that it can start to limit your own personal creative development to some degree, because like Dekilah said, that's about the ONLY way people will ever want to photograph you --- even for trade.
Not being able to find new, different genres in which to grow, was probably one of the reasons I started to burn out near the beginning of 2011. I felt like I'd shot every type of nude there was to shoot, so continuing to shoot them was becoming stagnant, boring and unexciting.
I do plan on resuming shooting here shortly, after close to a year and a half off, but this time, I plan on being more assertive, and specific in regards to what I will/will not shoot.
Photographer
Mr Banner
Posts: 85322
Hayward, California, US
Photographers: Do you feel there is an excess amount of nudes in comparison to the actual demand? Will tasteless nudes make you think twice about working with a model (male or female)?
no
what is tasteless? What I consider tasteless might not be tasteless to you. No, I don't really care what a model has in her portfolio. If I like her look, that's all that matters.
Photographer
Don Garrett
Posts: 4984
Escondido, California, US
A "pigeon hole" is somewhere you put yourself. I like the first response to your title. If something gets boring, just stop doing it, unless it is a living, then, do what you have to do to survive. The problem is, someone might take this idea to heart, and start doubting what they are doing, where there wasn't a problem before. People can be very impressionable, ya know !
-Don
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You'd be in the full right to say no if nudes weren't agreed upon! 