I've stumbled into this, very similar to my last topic about time management. Anyways, a photographer and I have been trying to arrange a photoshoot. A few days ago he asked about this Sunday afternoon and named the time. I got back to him yesterday, early evening, saying I would love to do that time and asked for the address. Well, now it's approaching the shoot time and he hasn't responded or confirmed the shoot or given me any contact information outside of MM. I sent a second message today asking him to please confirm if we are meeting for the shoot. I am not pleased as I cancelled plans to go out of town to plan for the shoot
I know some people maybe don't respond if the other person agrees to the scheduled time, but since I asked for an address to meet at and he didn't respond, I am assuming he hasn't checked messages. I think confirming a shoot is vital if you are planning a time, even if you both agree on the time just to make sure the other person got your message.
Jan 13 13 02:41 pm Link
Oxford, England, United Kingdom
Always make sure you get a phone number so you have a easier way to contact someone for last minute things. Given that you don't have an address for the shoot though I'm going to say that you probably won't be shooting.
Jan 13 13 02:56 pm Link
Note the part in bold.
Jan 13 13 03:05 pm Link
Yours is an example of why I don't like to depend on messaging to confirm photo shoots. It's unfortunate, but at this point in time, it looks like your shoot might not happen today? When I am serious about booking a shoot, I exchange phone numbers with the model, and call to confirm the scheduled shoot.
Is the photographer local to you? I've lived in Campbell, CA in the past, and know the area. Spur of the moment shoots are often times great ... but that's not going to happen unless you've had some communication through other means. Sometimes I even meet in advance with models, but using a phone is mandatory in my opinion. Before the Internet, we used to talk on the phone, and hold casting calls where we'd meet in person. I guess I'm old fashioned that way?
Jan 13 13 03:08 pm Link
Monterey, California, US
Jan 13 13 03:11 pm Link
I have to agree with you that by not communicating until less than 24 hours is not the way to "confirm" a shoot! I have nothing against "last minute" shoots ... but it's more likely to happen with models I've already worked with previously, and we are both communicating "on the same page" so to speak. If it's a model I've not worked with previously, it's not going to be as comfortable for me. With new models and shoot confirmations, the earlier the better!
Jan 13 13 03:17 pm Link
I actually got back to him only a day and a half after he asked me a time (we already planned for Sunday late evening) and I responded just to confirm the time with him exactly 24 hours before the shoot. He could have seen my response and decided not to reply since I agreed on time. So it's not like I left him hanging for days. I only responded a day later. We had been collaborating for awhile on setting a shoot, but I've noticed he does not respond to messages very quickly. I agree, I will definitely make sure I get a phone number and at least an email he checks each day. He gave me a general shooting location that is close to me, but without a phone number or exact address, it would be hard to show up and hope he got my message. I had given him my number, but he hasn't given me his.
Jan 13 13 03:21 pm Link
London, England, United Kingdom
Unfortunately he proposed, you accepted, but he hasn't confirmed the shoot is on. You really do need to have the other persons mobile number as a back up.
Jan 13 13 03:53 pm Link
Yes, it will be easier once you've established communication through phone calls. Technology is great, but not foolproof. As there are many threads on the forums here about "flaking" I often times wonder how well the shoot was confirmed, and the location decided on?
Jan 13 13 03:56 pm Link
New Orleans, Louisiana, US
I rely on messaging rather than telephone since it gives me a record of what was sent when. And I insist on a return message confirming date, time and place and including emergency contact number, whether that be cell or landline. Without that if ain't a shoot or a meet. It's nothing more than an expression of interest.
Jan 13 13 06:27 pm Link
Olivet, Michigan, US
If I asked a model about a shoot on Sunday a few days ahead of time, and didn't hear back until Saturday evening, I'd assume that she wasn't interested, at least in that date. Perhaps he made other plans when you didn't reply.
Jan 13 13 06:29 pm Link
Imperial, California, US
No phone calls, no shoot. It's that simple, emails and PM's are only for initial contacts. Besides, I want to get a feel about the models personality, intelligence, intrest in actually doing the shoot...
Jan 13 13 06:34 pm Link
Yeah, I gave him my number and the sad thing is this guy didn't even give me his name, much less a phone number or any other contact info. I'm surprised he went about booking a shoot without all the vital infor such as address, cell # and real names. Oh well, lesson learned.
Jan 13 13 10:49 pm Link
Phoenix, Arizona, US
If he had your number than he really doesn't have an excuse. I was going to harp on you a bit about waiting a day and a half to message back about if you were available but then he could have just called you.
I had someone message me Saturday morning saying she wanted to shoot Sunday night (after taking a whole week to respond to my last message of what days I was available). I messaged her back within a couple hours saying, yes, I was still available, and I needed her number and location to meet. She read the message and never replied. And she already had my phone number from the last message.
We didn't shoot. I'll probably turn her down if she replies back. If you are going to rely on MM messaging then you really need to be relatively prompt about it.
Jan 13 13 10:58 pm Link
Albany, New York, US
Does nobody pick up the phone for time sensitive communication anymore?
Jan 14 13 04:49 am Link
Plainview, Texas, US
Several bad signs here on both sides.
The photographer didn't give contact information early on. The model was a bit slow to respond, given that the proposed date was close.
Seems to me both parties have an obligation to check messages and respond promptly, especially when planning is in the works. That includes email and MM messages. If for some reason you can't do this you need to spell out an alternative.
Personally, I prefer NOT to set up sessions by phone - I want things like times, addresses, what to bring and travel instructions in writing to minimize the chance or misunderstandings and sometimes just so I can refresh my memory. A text or phone call is OK for last minute confirmation or emergencies, but not my first choice for detailed planning.
Just my own policy, but I like to have things pretty well firmed up at least 3 days in advance, then a final confirmation the day before.
Jan 14 13 05:27 am Link
Portland, Oregon, US
There is no filter on MM's membership -- there are all kinds here, from posers (both in the good & bad sense, ha!), organized people, unorganized people, serious, not so serious, and so forth.
Your job (assuming you are serious) is to weed out the time wasters. Work with reliable people, and you will be happy.
So, at least you found out about this guy before you left.
Jan 14 13 08:54 am Link
Silver Mirage wrote:
Good points here. I actually had an ESL photographer, I couldn't understand him over the phone at all. It was easier to communicate addresses and locations via text message and facebook messaging, but we still had cell #'s just in case.
Jan 14 13 10:43 am Link
Sand Angel Photography wrote:
I had given him my phone number on Saturday...still no response from him. Oh well, I think at this point the only way I'd agree to a shoot with him is by other means of communication. At least by now he should have responded explaining he hadn't heard from me...but I have no idea other than to assume he's flaking, which makes me hesitant to accept re-scheduling another shoot.
Jan 14 13 10:45 am Link
Seattle, Washington, US
If I were you. I give 24 hours. I don't hear anything in 24 hours, everything is off.
Jan 14 13 10:49 am Link
Seattle, Washington, US
No name given? How can you schedule something with someone without knowing that someone's name? BAD on your part.
Jan 14 13 10:53 am Link
Cleveland, Ohio, US
George Ruge wrote:
I agree, are they really serious about shooting or not? How hard is it to make a phone call to confirm a shoot??
Jan 14 13 11:04 am Link
Salem, Oregon, US
my feeling is that until they provide both the time and address the shoot isn't real. even then photographers can flake sometimes just like models. you take your chances on these trade shoots. i wouldn't cancel anything important just for the chance of a trade shoot.
if they can't be bothered to communicate well then stuff them.
Jan 14 13 12:45 pm Link
Poulsbo, Washington, US
Silver Mirage wrote:
Jan 14 13 01:45 pm Link
Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
Silver Mirage wrote:
Totally agree, normally i like things written down in email, black and white, you can come back to see the information shared between the photographer and models so nothing is missing. The 24hours short notice of confirming is not a good idea.
Jan 14 13 01:53 pm Link
Ok! I finally got a response from him and he said he thought we were shooting THIS coming Sunday! @_@. On 1/6, he told me he was available "next Saturday and Sunday", which was this past weekend. He had asked me on Thursday 1/10 and said "how about 4pm Sunday"? So, naturally I assume that was this past Sunday. I am not sure if I want to shoot with him at this point as he still has not given me any contact info after I provided my cell. What do all of you think?
Jan 15 13 10:09 am Link
Now would be the time to get his contact info. Let him know, just in case something comes up on either party's end it would be nice to have an alternate contact form. I would also let him know that one or the other needs to confirm the evening before or that morning.
Jan 15 13 10:18 am Link
Abbeville, Alabama, US
allison mindy wrote:
Jan 16 13 12:02 pm Link
Los Angeles, California, US
I hate when llamas (in mi case, photographers in yours) do not reply your emails when you already set up a shooting, from my point of view that´s lack of professionalism. Also what I hate the most is when they don´t give you a contact number, this is a business and as any other business you need to have their phone numbers to be in touch in case something comes up, specially when the job implies to travel or when you scheduled a day to work with him/her, it´s not like we´re interested in calling them all the time and stalking people. They´ve got to be professional!
Jan 16 13 01:57 pm Link
Monterey, California, US
It's ultimately your decision if you would like to work with that photographer. That being said, I can't imagine anyone not including details such as date and time when scheduling photoshoots.
Jan 16 13 02:06 pm Link
Yeah, he said 4pm Sunday on 1/10...so to me that was this past Sunday. I'm not sure if he's trying to cover himself because he forgot or flaked or if he really meant to shoot this coming weekend, but he clearly said this past Sunday. He gave me his contact info (I had already given him my cell) and also my email. I said I'd call or email him to confirm the day before. Let's see how it goes!
Jan 16 13 02:42 pm Link
Some of us are old and absent minded, he may have been mistaken on the date. Either way, come back and let us know if the shoot does happen.
Jan 16 13 02:46 pm Link
Jacksonville, Florida, US
Definitely get real names, and check references before you ever even agree to schedule a date. Check references with at least 5 llamas or stylists, and be sure to ask about their reliability, whether they were on time, provided enough information about the location, their professional attitude, and how long it took to get images back and so on. If anything throws up a red flag, do not work with him or her. Look up their names in the sexual offender registry too.
Jan 16 13 08:21 pm Link
Fort Lauderdale, Florida, US
I wait until near the shoot to trade phone numbers. I confirm prior to the shoot depending on how far the traveling is. The further away one of us is coming the earlier on confirm but usually about a week. Then I check that everything is still on two or three days before. If I don't get a response I will send a second message saying that if there is no response confirming the shoot I will take that to mean the shoot is off.
Others may think it wrong but it has worked for me.
Jan 16 13 08:28 pm Link
Los Angeles, California, US
MM is bad as a rule for communication.
I just responded to 6 Casting calls and they haven't even READ them, let alone responded to them. I kinda think if you put out a casting call asking for sessions you would at least check to see if you got any responses.
Jan 16 13 08:45 pm Link
Chicago, Illinois, US
Jordan L Duncan wrote:
Jesus all that for a photo shoot? The OP indicates she takes a escort but she has too do a NSA level background check too? Really? When I joined MM I had few models to display and no stylists I could use as references. I'm glad that models trusted me enough to come out and shoot without any drama. If every model required every photographer have all you suggest then very few people could shoot and stylists... I don't think most shooters here use them nor MUA nor designers.
Jan 16 13 08:46 pm Link
Huntington, West Virginia, US
Yep confirming the night before is a good idea. And I always get a phone number
Jan 16 13 09:11 pm Link
Saint Louis, Missouri, US
As soon as the shoot is booked, I exchange contact info with the model and provide directions to the studio. Then I ask the model to reconfirm the day befoe the shoot.
Lack of timely communication has killed many a shoot.
If you're serious about modeling or photography, it's a good idea to check your MM email at least a couple of times a day.
Before Christmas I agreed to do trade shoots with four models while they were home from school for Christmas break. One of them asked to bring an escort (another model for me to shoot), and I told her that was fine.
Three of the models were scheduled and shot with no problems. As it turned out, there was only one day when we could shoot before the fourth model and her model friend returned to school, and I suggested a shoot time of 3-9pm next Sunday.
The model did not acknowledge or accept the date for four days. I rent 40 hours/month at studio time from a commercial photographer, and there are seven other photographers who rent 5-40 hours a month at the studio. In the meantime, one of the other photographers reserved the studio from 1-6pm next Sunday.
Last April a magazine editor asked if I could shoot a cover photo for a fitness-themed issue of a magazine. The editor had killed the cover photo 3.5 days before the photo deadline after she learned that one of the models in the cover photo had not signed her legal name to the model release.
I suggested a photo of a model jogging with her dog by a lake in a suburban park, and the editor liked the idea. She contacted a couple of local agencies to see if they could come up with a fitness model who jogged (or could jog) with her dog for the cover photo. The dog should be large enough not to get lost in the photo and preferably not have black hair. Both agencies came up dry.
That evening I contacted 20+ local models through MM PM's. All the models I contacted had listed fitness modeling as an interest, looked fit in their photos and had signed in to MM within the previous three days.
Over the next couple of days six models responded. Some said they didn't have dogs or couldn't shoot within the next few days. I finally scheduled a 6pm Friday shoot with one of the models - six hours before the magazine's photo deadline.
Fortunately the editor had contacted other photographers, because the shoot never happened. The model insisted that her 13-year-old daughter be included in some of the photos, and I had little choice but to agree.
As I was approaching the park, I called the model to make sure that we ended up at the same spot in the park. The model said she had just gotten a phone call. Her daughter (the 13-yo) was backing a car out of the driveway to drive to the shoot, and she dragged the model's boyfriend down the driveway. While nobody was hurt, the model felt compelled to go home immediately and deal with that.
Here’s the punchline. I continued to receive initial responses to my emails over the next several months. The last of the models who responded replied to my April email in September.
Jan 16 13 09:28 pm Link
Tony Lawrence wrote:
Yeah, I think that also seems a bit excessive. If I really had to do all that for each TF shoot offer, I probably wouldn't bother with the shoot. I agree we all started somewhere. I understand safety is an issue, which is why I use an escort (at least for the very first time working with someone new; there are weirdos everywhere).
Jan 17 13 12:30 am Link
Chicago, Illinois, US
Don't write him off. Let him know if he contacts you again he needs to provide a phone number, address, name and location of your shoot. I understand models being shy about providing numbers but photographers??? Kinda odd. Your point about starting somewhere is a great observation. How can you build a good reputation if no one will work with you?
Jan 17 13 12:43 am Link