Forums > General Industry > Photographers more sensitive than models?

Model

Aah

Posts: 79

Los Angeles, California, US

Jan 31 13 12:24 pm Link

Photographer

liddellphoto

Posts: 1801

London, England, United Kingdom

The photographers are usually doing the ones approaching so they are the ones that will usually be rejected.

Jan 31 13 12:28 pm Link

Photographer

MedievalIce

Posts: 223

Ithaca, New York, US

I would generally agree with your observation.  I do wonder however, if it's not partially related to who posts and who doesn't.  I think that photographers post a lot more often than models anyway, so that may have something to do with it too.

Jan 31 13 12:34 pm Link

Photographer

Neil Snape

Posts: 9473

Paris, Île-de-France, France

You are probably right.

Photographers, especially professional photographers are putting themselves in a situation of critic and rejection every time they show their work. Most have done this for a longer time than models so the amount of rejection becomes heavy in the end.

I still to this day try to make every model at castings feel that I do appreciate them regardless if I book them.

Jan 31 13 12:34 pm Link

Photographer

sospix

Posts: 21388

Orlando, Florida, US

I am not  .  .  .  and, quit sayin' I am, or I'll tell my mom  .  .  .  OKAY, OK, Okay, ok  .  .  .  you may be right  .  .  .  wink

SOS

Jan 31 13 12:39 pm Link

Photographer

M Pandolfo Photography

Posts: 12116

Tampa, Florida, US

Because many photographers on here aren't shooting for anything other than themselves. They are shooting for personal enjoyment. So, saying that they "are not right for..." is the equivalent of saying, "YOU are no good. I don't want you...", to them.

The motivation for them is personal so the rejection is also taken personally.

Now, combine that with the fact that Creatives are notoriously self-conscious divas with an extreme inferiority complex and you've got, well, MM lol.

I'm sure you could take that same overly sensitive photographer and send them on an interview for an office job and they wouldn't blink an eye if they were told their qualifications didn't match the position.

Jan 31 13 12:40 pm Link

Photographer

thePhotosmith

Posts: 424

Durham, North Carolina, US

liddellphoto wrote:
The photographers are usually doing the ones approaching so they are the ones that will usually be rejected.

+1

Nine times out of ten, the interaction is a photographer approaching a model for a shoot; the inverse is much less common.

Jan 31 13 12:49 pm Link

Photographer

J O H N A L L A N

Posts: 10316

Santa Ana, California, US

Amanda Ashley Harris wrote:
I have noticed a lot lately that the more Model Mayhem I encounter, the more these photographers seem to be more sensitive to rejection than models are. The angry posts feel like 90/10 ratio of photographers bashing models based on some sort of rejection than the opposite.

We understand that we are not right for every shoot and realize our weaknesses probably as much or more than our strengths so we play to them in order to sell ourselves. I have seen the concepts done that the photographers said I wasn't right for and acknowledged that they definitely made the right decision and I wasn't what they needed. Why do photographers have a harder time realizing they aren't always the right choice?

You're also coming from an agency background, where rejection is kind of ingrained as part of the professional process.
Internet models without that background/indoctrination I would expect to be much more sensitive.

Jan 31 13 12:50 pm Link

Photographer

Raoul Isidro Images

Posts: 6285

Sydney, New South Wales, Australia

Artists are inherently emotional, whether model or photographer.

More so if they are passionate about what they are and what they do.

.

Jan 31 13 12:55 pm Link

Photographer

Jerry Nemeth

Posts: 27976

Dearborn, Michigan, US

I don't worry about it.  Models usually contact me.

Jan 31 13 01:08 pm Link

Photographer

Kincaid Blackwood

Posts: 23405

Atlanta, Georgia, US

I wouldn't say it's quite so lop-sided. 60/40 if it's imbalanced at all.

What I would note, though, is that far more people seem to side with models when models rant than with photographers. In light of that, it might come across as if more photographers bitch and complain as opposed to having legitimate gripes.

Jan 31 13 01:19 pm Link

Photographer

AJ_In_Atlanta

Posts: 12831

Atlanta, Georgia, US

Well obviously the ones who don't care don't post, so its not like we can really use it as a gauge for anything (model or photographer)

Professional photographers usually have relationships with multiple modeling agencies and don't come to MM to find models much so they are not going to even be asking. 

I put by book out there all the time, clients may or may not like it or my style.  That is fine, but that attitude doesn't come overnight.  Now many new photographers are a bit shocked by rejections, and certainly the non professional ones are unaccustomed to it.  Those are also the ones that are approaching models on MM, so its a self fulfilling prophecy.

Jan 31 13 01:30 pm Link

Photographer

ontherocks

Posts: 22606

Salem, Oregon, US

i wonder if maybe they've had some bad experiences with women and were somehow hoping it would be different here.

Jan 31 13 01:36 pm Link

Photographer

Farenell Photography

Posts: 18128

Albany, New York, US

Amanda Ashley Harris wrote:
I have noticed a lot lately that the more Model Mayhem I encounter, the more these photographers seem to be more sensitive to rejection than models are. The angry posts feel like 90/10 ratio of photographers bashing models based on some sort of rejection than the opposite.

I honestly don't think photographers are any more or less butt-hurt than models. There are probably just more of us percentage'wise who bitch about it. They also disproportionally sit in front of their computers doing mass amounts of editing (among other things) than a model would & since the internet is so connect'able, it offers a nice audience to complain to.

Think about it. If you go to a restaurant & get shitty service, a person is more likely to tell 10 of their friends about it than if they got stellar service.

Jan 31 13 01:38 pm Link

Photographer

ForeverFotos

Posts: 6644

Indianapolis, Indiana, US

So much crying...so little time ......

http://humormood.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/images-crying-baby-photo-7.jpg

Can't we all just try to get along?

Jan 31 13 01:45 pm Link

Photographer

NothingIsRealButTheGirl

Posts: 33552

Los Angeles, California, US

If someone says you have bad ideas or skills, it's probably more upsetting than someone telling you you are too short.

Not much you can do about the latter, so a lot  of people will just shrug and move on. The former is 'fixable' but it is also in a way more personal.

Jan 31 13 01:45 pm Link

Photographer

Fotografica Gregor

Posts: 4122

Alexandria, Virginia, US

Lotta grown men whining like little babies because the big bad model did not pay attention to them lol

it's not FAIR !   it's not POLITE !  it's not good BUSINESS! 

(yet as far as I can tell there are a lot more models getting paid here than there are photographers lol)

as far as I am concerned, you may respond to my casting or my contact - or not -

I probably won't notice either way -

I put out a casting or a "feeler" contact on occasion, and move on -  I get more interest than I know what to do with,  and I'm booked through March....

Oh - and I do not respond to models who answer my castings but do not fit the requirements or those who cold contact me, when I am not interested in working with them - 

life is short, and time's expensive.....

Jan 31 13 01:49 pm Link

Model

Miroslava Svoboda

Posts: 555

Seattle, Washington, US

I think models might be reluctant to complain hence the lopsidedness of it all. Usually when a photographer complains there is a lot of "what a bitch" and "you're so great". However, when a model complains she is reminded of all the things that are wrong with her. big_smile
I agree that there are more photographers on the forums than models too so that explains the above trends in responding. smile

Jan 31 13 01:54 pm Link

Photographer

Orca Bay Images

Posts: 32233

Lodi, California, US

Amanda Ashley Harris wrote:
We understand that we are not right for every shoot and realize our weaknesses probably as much or more than our strengths so we play to them in order to sell ourselves.

What's this "we" shit? lol

I've run into plenty of models who got crazy butthurt when told they weren't right for the look. I did a casting call for a super-fit gymrat look with minimal to no tatts or piercings and got one pasty, flabby girl so heavily pierced she couldn't make it through an airport if her life depended on it. She kept hounding me so long about my being a discriminating male pig that I had to block her. Another respondent to that gymrat casting was 5'4" 250. She merely called me a racist because I was rejecting her because she was black. I've been called a potential rapist by a couple of models because I wasn't allowing escorts for models 18 and older.

I have no doubt that there are plenty of irrational, easily wounded photographers out there. There's no shortage of irrational, easily wounded models out there, too.

John Allan made a very good point. You (OP) are describing the situation from the point of view of an agency model, for whom occasional rejection is seen as a fact of professional life. And MM isn't always -- or even often -- a professional environment.

Jan 31 13 01:58 pm Link

Photographer

EdwardKristopher

Posts: 3377

Tempe, Arizona, US

Amanda Ashley Harris wrote:
I have noticed a lot lately that the more Model Mayhem I encounter, the more these photographers seem to be more sensitive to rejection than models are. The angry posts feel like 90/10 ratio of photographers bashing models based on some sort of rejection than the opposite.

We understand that we are not right for every shoot and realize our weaknesses probably as much or more than our strengths so we play to them in order to sell ourselves. I have seen the concepts done that the photographers said I wasn't right for and acknowledged that they definitely made the right decision and I wasn't what they needed. Why do photographers have a harder time realizing they aren't always the right choice?

You should read some of the angry posts they put out on these threads as well...!  :-)

Jan 31 13 04:06 pm Link

Photographer

Herb Way

Posts: 1486

Black Mountain, North Carolina, US

DVSmith wrote:

+1

Nine times out of ten, the interaction is a photographer approaching a model for a shoot; the inverse is much less common.

Very true! So, perhaps it's the models' sensitivity that keeps them from reaching out?

Feb 01 13 06:38 am Link

Photographer

Herb Way

Posts: 1486

Black Mountain, North Carolina, US

Orca Bay Images wrote:

What's this "we" shit? lol

I've run into plenty of models who got crazy butthurt when told they weren't right for the look. I did a casting call for a super-fit gymrat look with minimal to no tatts or piercings and got one pasty, flabby girl so heavily pierced she couldn't make it through an airport if her life depended on it. She kept hounding me so long about my being a discriminating male pig that I had to block her. Another respondent to that gymrat casting was 5'4" 250. She merely called me a racist because I was rejecting her because she was black. I've been called a potential rapist by a couple of models because I wasn't allowing escorts for models 18 and older.

I have no doubt that there are plenty of irrational, easily wounded photographers out there. There's no shortage of irrational, easily wounded models out there, too.

John Allan made a very good point. You (OP) are describing the situation from the point of view of an agency model, for whom occasional rejection is seen as a fact of professional life. And MM isn't always -- or even often -- a professional environment.

A hearty AMEN to this one!

Feb 01 13 06:40 am Link

Photographer

Good Egg Productions

Posts: 15706

Orlando, Florida, US

I ended up on a model's Do Not Recommend list simply because she responded to a casting call and I said she wasn't right for the job.

People are people. Some of them are batshit insane.

But I'd agree that, in general, photographers are far more thin skinned and sensitive than models.

Feb 01 13 06:48 am Link

Photographer

Aaron Lewis Photography

Posts: 5083

Catskill, New York, US

If we weren't sensitive we wouldn't have the ability to create beautiful images for you.

Feb 01 13 06:48 am Link

Photographer

Good Egg Productions

Posts: 15706

Orlando, Florida, US

Aaron Lewis Photography wrote:
If we weren't sensitive we wouldn't have the ability to create beautiful images for you.

I think you missed the point.

Feb 01 13 06:54 am Link

Photographer

Drew Smith Photography

Posts: 5210

Nottingham, England, United Kingdom

Fotografica Gregor wrote:
Lotta grown men whining like little babies because the big bad model did not pay attention to them lol

it's not FAIR !   it's not POLITE !  it's not good BUSINESS! 

(yet as far as I can tell there are a lot more models getting paid here than there are photographers lol)

as far as I am concerned, you may respond to my casting or my contact - or not -

I probably won't notice either way -

I put out a casting or a "feeler" contact on occasion, and move on -  I get more interest than I know what to do with,  and I'm booked through March....

Oh - and I do not respond to models who answer my castings but do not fit the requirements or those who cold contact me, when I am not interested in working with them - 

life is short, and time's expensive.....

You're just a little sweetie pie aren't you!

OP - it's also self-selecting in that those that feel rejected and are not professional enough to cope with it internally find the need to express their displeasure in more public ways.

They are probably the very small tip of the photography iceberg, whilst the overwhelming majority of photographers (and models too) are just getting on with it and have no time for posting silly rants in an internet forum.

Feb 01 13 06:54 am Link

Model

Jojo West

Posts: 972

Silver Spring, Maryland, US

liddellphoto wrote:
The photographers are usually doing the ones approaching so they are the ones that will usually be rejected.

I'm not sure I agree with that. I approach a lot of photographers and many times I don't fit what they're looking for. I just move on, lol. Life is too short and there are too many other people on MM for me to get buttsore because someone said no.

I agree with the OP, perhaps models are just more prepared and used to not always fitting the specific look the photographer or designer is seeking, so we hope for the best and prepare for the worst. I also feel like a lot of the photographers that get mad just have big egos and don't know what to do when someone doesn't fawn over them.

Feb 01 13 07:52 am Link

Photographer

B R U N E S C I

Posts: 25319

Bath, England, United Kingdom

*storms out of thread in a huff*








Just my $0.02

Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

Feb 01 13 10:57 am Link

Photographer

Erlinda

Posts: 7221

London, England, United Kingdom

Aaron Lewis Photography wrote:
If we weren't sensitive we wouldn't have the ability to create beautiful images for you.

I'm not sensitive, yet I create beautiful images...... roll

And YES, photographers are HUGE babies! So annoying. tongue

Feb 01 13 02:15 pm Link

Photographer

DougBPhoto

Posts: 38558

Portland, Oregon, US

{ouch}

Feb 01 13 02:26 pm Link

Photographer

Art of the nude

Posts: 11892

Olivet, Michigan, US

Amanda Ashley Harris wrote:
I have noticed a lot lately that the more Model Mayhem I encounter, the more these photographers seem to be more sensitive to rejection than models are. The angry posts feel like 90/10 ratio of photographers bashing models based on some sort of rejection than the opposite.

We understand that we are not right for every shoot and realize our weaknesses probably as much or more than our strengths so we play to them in order to sell ourselves. I have seen the concepts done that the photographers said I wasn't right for and acknowledged that they definitely made the right decision and I wasn't what they needed. Why do photographers have a harder time realizing they aren't always the right choice?

People complain if we're "sensitive," and people complain if we're "insensitive."  You just can't win.  big_smile

Feb 01 13 02:36 pm Link

Model

E e v a

Posts: 1724

Nashville, Tennessee, US

I don't think its a sensitivity issue. I think the way it works is photographer's have a little more lee way to complain. If a model complains, she is seen as a diva, and she loses business. If a photographer complains, it isn't quite seen like that.

Regardless, I do admit I get a little butthurt when I'm rejected for a casting. Never have been vocal about it, but there's been moments where it's stung.

Feb 01 13 02:42 pm Link

Photographer

Orca Bay Images

Posts: 32233

Lodi, California, US

Samantha Emme wrote:
Regardless, I do admit I get a little butthurt when I'm rejected for a casting. Never have been vocal about it, but there's been moments where it's stung.

A totally honest response.

Rejections do sting, but reacting badly just compounds the problem. What I like to do when I'm in a petulant mood after a rejection is to type out the nastiest possible reply -- really get that shit off my chest -- then count to ten and then delete it. Replace it with "Thank you for the courtesy of your honesty and good luck with your modeling." Send that.

That kind of reply is very disarming. I usually get a kindly reply off of that. Even struck up a few friendships that way.

But for gawdsake, be sure to delete, not send, that nasty venting reply.

Feb 01 13 02:56 pm Link

Photographer

Orca Bay Images

Posts: 32233

Lodi, California, US

Art of the nude wrote:
People complain if we're "sensitive," and people complain if we're "insensitive."  You just can't win.  big_smile

As WOPR once said, "Strange game. The only winning move is not to play."

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRwM_Z4G_qCBwqR_Icsbv2hxjPz4LUV0WNxqNzZX51h66_rUMo1

Feb 01 13 03:01 pm Link

Photographer

BlueMoonPics

Posts: 4429

New York, New York, US

I take umbrage at this post!

Feb 01 13 03:11 pm Link

Model

E e v a

Posts: 1724

Nashville, Tennessee, US

Orca Bay Images wrote:
A totally honest response.

Rejections do sting, but reacting badly just compounds the problem. What I like to do when I'm in a petulant mood after a rejection is to type out the nastiest possible reply -- really get that shit off my chest -- then count to ten and then delete it. Replace it with "Thank you for the courtesy of your honesty and good luck with your modeling." Send that.

That kid of reply is very disarming. I usually get a kindly reply off of that. Even struck up a few friendships that way.

But for gawdsake, be sure to delete, not send, that nasty venting reply.

LOL I now imagine someone out there doing that and accidentally clicking send. What I do when those things sting is I just go and network out more, and work with other photographers I like. The good images and good vibes is totally worth the butthurt on rejections.

Feb 01 13 03:16 pm Link

Photographer

Christopher Hartman

Posts: 54149

Buena Park, California, US

Amanda Ashley Harris wrote:
I have noticed a lot lately that the more Model Mayhem I encounter, the more these photographers seem to be more sensitive to rejection than models are. The angry posts feel like 90/10 ratio of photographers bashing models based on some sort of rejection than the opposite.

We understand that we are not right for every shoot and realize our weaknesses probably as much or more than our strengths so we play to them in order to sell ourselves. I have seen the concepts done that the photographers said I wasn't right for and acknowledged that they definitely made the right decision and I wasn't what they needed. Why do photographers have a harder time realizing they aren't always the right choice?

We're bunch of crabby babies.

Feb 01 13 03:20 pm Link

Photographer

Jean Renard Photography

Posts: 2080

Los Angeles, California, US

models are mean

That's why we shoot them....

Feb 01 13 03:26 pm Link

Photographer

Fotografica Gregor

Posts: 4122

Alexandria, Virginia, US

Drew Smith Photography wrote:
You're just a little sweetie pie aren't you!

Big Mean Photographer gonna hurt my feelings smile

just tired of the f*ing whining is all.....   it's - un-manly.....

Feb 01 13 03:32 pm Link

Photographer

Vector 38

Posts: 8296

Austin, Texas, US

Amanda Ashley Harris wrote:
Photographers more sensitive than models? (...) Model Mayhem

sensitivity runs on both sides of the camera ...

... but, uhm,..., the Mayhem represents an entirely different tribe unlike anything found in the "industry".

Feb 01 13 03:35 pm Link