Forums > Model Colloquy > PussyFootin' It

Model

- Aina -

Posts: 747

Redlands, California, US

I'm all for marketing myself in a professional matter and being civil should I be rejected. I have heard from other models that they brush it off if things don't go their way - all the time. As per the industry (and life in general), people screw you over or don't treat you with the same respect you give them. You MUST be flexible and all that good stuff if you don't want to lose your sanity or kill the world for their nonsensical quirks.

However, I have my moments where I simply can't be pussyfootin' gracious. I was recently pitched a work offer that would take place next day at X time. Cool. I responded 30 minutes later. I was rejected the next day 2 hours before shoot time. I made a point to mention I'd appreciate the courtesy of being told I won't be shooting for the project this time the same day - ESPECIALLY since I had responded so quickly. Honestly, this type of thing annoys me.

My question is to you, this:
Do you speak your mind (respectfully or otherwise) when someone stiffs you or frankly needs to be told something, or do you bite your tongue and let it go for the sake of your "reputation"? This is more directed towards models, but others are more than welcome to contribute.

Feb 01 13 11:56 am Link

Model

Jojo West

Posts: 972

Washington, District of Columbia, US

Aina Nudes wrote:
My question is to you, this:
Do you speak your mind (respectfully or otherwise) when someone stiffs you or frankly needs to be told something, or do you bite your tongue and let it go for the sake of your "reputation"? This is more directed towards models, but others are more than welcome to contribute.

So far? I've always spoke my mind. I hate when people aren't responsible or professional. I get that shit happens, I've had to cancel shoots because of other things, but I try to avoid doing it the day of the shoot. I'm still harassing photographers that haven't sent me my images from a TF shoot I did. You shouldn't let people walk all over you, it becomes a habit and they'll do it to others as well.

Just my opinion of course.

Feb 01 13 12:05 pm Link

Model

- Aina -

Posts: 747

Redlands, California, US

Jojo West wrote:

So far? I've always spoke my mind. I hate when people aren't responsible or professional. I get that shit happens, I've had to cancel shoots because of other things, but I try to avoid doing it the day of the shoot. I'm still harassing photographers that haven't sent me my images from a TF shoot I did. You shouldn't let people walk all over you, it becomes a habit and they'll do it to others as well.

Just my opinion of course.

I more than completely agree. When I first started out modeling, I was very much in the mindset (with my life in general) of always being polite and avoiding offending people at all chances. I'm DEFINITELY not like that anymore. It briefly crossed my mind: "What if they talk about me or don't work with me anymore or some other jibberish bullshit?" Decided I didn't care. I wasn't rude, but I spoke my mind.

Feb 01 13 12:08 pm Link

Photographer

All Yours Photography

Posts: 2354

Toledo, Ohio, US

MOST of the time, I will just do the "water off a duck's back" thing because I have better things to do with my time and energy and, oddly enough, rude people are the ones most likely to tell everyone they know about an instance where they feel someone didn't treat them well, however unfounded that feeling is.

Feb 01 13 12:17 pm Link

Photographer

DAN CRUIKSHANK

Posts: 1786

Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada

I bite my tongue...

Work with people who treat you with respect.

Forget about the rest.

No point in complaining about anything that is out of your control.

Feb 01 13 12:22 pm Link

Photographer

DAN CRUIKSHANK

Posts: 1786

Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada

If you do get upset, remain professional. If I see a model posting rants on her Facebook account I will simply delete her and forget about ever working with her. I don't have time for dealing with that and I don't like reading about it smile

Feb 01 13 12:26 pm Link

Photographer

Marc Damon

Posts: 6562

Biloxi, Mississippi, US

Something about never burning bridges?
Of course that doesn't mean you should be a doormat. Balance is the key to most things in life.

Feb 01 13 12:30 pm Link

Model

Jojo West

Posts: 972

Washington, District of Columbia, US

Marc Damon wrote:
Something about never burning bridges?
Of course that doesn't mean you should be a doormat. Balance is the key to most things in life.

Does it really matter if you burn a bridge with someone who isn't considerate or professional to begin with? tongue

Feb 01 13 12:31 pm Link

Photographer

hs photography

Posts: 468

Houston, Texas, US

Like you mentioned, I too try to treat people with respect.  Most of the time I succeed.  I've learned, through a lot of practice, that often times, especially on MM, you won't change anyone's mind or behavior.  And you certainly won't/can't control them either.  So for me, I just keep treating people like I want to be treated. 

I know, I know, sometimes it's hard but every now and then, the stars align and I meet someone who is truly  respectful and professional and I really get a charge out of that.

Stay strong.  Don't let them get to you.  keep doing the right thing.

Feb 01 13 12:35 pm Link

Photographer

DAN CRUIKSHANK

Posts: 1786

Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada

Jojo West wrote:

Does it really matter if you burn a bridge with someone who isn't considerate or professional to begin with? tongue

Yes... Because photographers talk to other photographers.

Feb 01 13 12:40 pm Link

Model

- Aina -

Posts: 747

Redlands, California, US

I've yet to have a response be anything less than understanding - likely because I'm not a bitch about it. I hear what you guys are saying though.

Feb 01 13 12:42 pm Link

Clothing Designer

Chain Reaction

Posts: 529

Grand Rapids, Michigan, US

Aina Nudes wrote:
My question is to you, this:
Do you speak your mind (respectfully or otherwise) when someone stiffs you or frankly needs to be told something, or do you bite your tongue and let it go for the sake of your "reputation"? This is more directed towards models, but others are more than welcome to contribute.

Yes. I usually try to remain professional but I have to admit where there were a couple of times I flat out told them, bluntly, exactly what was on my mind. I want to blame it on my advanced years, not much time left on this earth, etc. But the simple truth is sometimes I just get tired of the crap some people try to pull. I'm getting a lot less tolerant in my old age.

Feb 01 13 12:45 pm Link

Model

Jojo West

Posts: 972

Washington, District of Columbia, US

DAN CRUIKSHANK wrote:

Yes... Because photographers talk to other photographers.

People assume that speaking your mind means being rude. If one photographer is going to tell another one "Oh don't work with Jojo, she had the nerve to ask me to send her the images we worked on 3 months ago that I haven't sent" and that guys thinks I'm in the wrong...personally I wouldn't want to work with that one either.

You can get your point across without being rude, if that offends people, so be it. I believe in "do unto others as you'd want them to do unto you" smile

You catch more bees with honey, but every once in a while, smoke works too tongue

Feb 01 13 12:59 pm Link

Model

Lanna_

Posts: 829

Seattle, Washington, US

DAN CRUIKSHANK wrote:
If you do get upset, remain professional. If I see a llama posting rants on her Facebook account I will simply delete her and forget about ever working with her. I don't have time for dealing with that and I don't like reading about it smile

1 with photographers.  There are some excellent photographers that only seem to whine and bitch on FB.  I've deleted them, regardless of how talented they are, because I just don't need to deal with that.

Legit rants are fine occasionally, but when you constantly spew complaints it gets old quickly.

Feb 01 13 01:09 pm Link

Model

- Aina -

Posts: 747

Redlands, California, US

Jojo West wrote:
"Oh don't work with Jojo, she had the nerve to ask me to send her the images we worked on 3 months ago that I haven't sent" ... tongue

That reminds me... I need to pester someone about my Trade pictures....

Feb 01 13 01:12 pm Link

Photographer

FemmeArtPhoto

Posts: 130

Washington, District of Columbia, US

Marc Damon wrote:
Something about never burning bridges?
Of course that doesn't mean you should be a doormat. Balance is the key to most things in life.

Agreed

Feb 01 13 01:14 pm Link

Photographer

Viator Defessus Photos

Posts: 1178

College Station, Texas, US

It's always good to be polite and watch what you say to and about people. You never know when a burned bridge can come back to haunt you.

I once contacted a model about a paid project and later saw some disparaging remarks she made about the offer on the FB page of another model that I was friends with. Basically she accused the offer of being a scam. I thought it was funny at the time. She said on her page that she was wanting to do more paid work and move away from TFP. I offered her a paid gig and she was immediately suspicious (is it that unusual?) and her commentary lost her any chance of ever getting work with me.

Feb 01 13 01:22 pm Link

Model

Jojo West

Posts: 972

Washington, District of Columbia, US

Viator-Defessus Photos wrote:
I once contacted a model about a paid project and later saw some disparaging remarks she made about the offer on the FB page of another model that I was friends with. Basically she accused the offer of being a scam.

Things like that should not be mistaken with speaking your mind. Personally, I think ranting on FB is just plain silly, just like ranting about your personal life. Now, speaking to people in the industry about your discontent with them shouldn't be frowned upon. Models are equally deserving of the same professionalism photographers expect from a model. How many threads do you see out there about models/MUAs cancelling last minute? Models feel the same way about not being told a shoot is cancelled or you didn't make the cut.

Time is money.

Feb 01 13 01:30 pm Link

Photographer

Decay of Memory

Posts: 604

Asheville, North Carolina, US

Better to address the issue at the front end as a condition than at the back end as a complaint. Often difficult and sometimes impossible as it requires guessing at likely problems.

Feb 01 13 01:41 pm Link

Photographer

ArtisticGlamour

Posts: 3846

Phoenix, Arizona, US

+1

Anger management class was great, except...f#@k that!wink

Feb 01 13 03:47 pm Link

guide forum

Photographer

Rays Fine Art

Posts: 6485

New York, New York, US

I don't see any reason to get upset when treated a little bit brusquely, especially when the job follows the casting so closely.  Things sometimes happen much too quickly to allow for the "normal" courtesies.  And for that matter, in our little "industry" what would be normal courtesies anywhere else can be downright surprising, unfortunately.

But even when I do get upset I find it's much better to just blow off steam to my wife than to create an issue with anyone else.  My wife never listens to me, anyway.

Feb 01 13 04:31 pm Link

Photographer

In Balance Photography

Posts: 3372

Boston, Massachusetts, US

Jojo West wrote:

Things like that should not be mistaken with speaking your mind. Personally, I think ranting on FB is just plain silly, just like ranting about your personal life. Now, speaking to people in the industry about your discontent with them shouldn't be frowned upon. Models are equally deserving of the same professionalism photographers expect from a model. How many threads do you see out there about models/MUAs cancelling last minute? Models feel the same way about not being told a shoot is cancelled or you didn't make the cut.

Time is money.

I think a lot depends on the outcome that you want.

Feb 01 13 06:03 pm Link

Model

Dekilah

Posts: 4890

Detroit, Michigan, US

There have been times when I had to get a bit assertive or blunt with someone. One such case was a photographer (not local to me) who would check up on my port every so often. Every time I would post a new photo he would send me a critique (which I did not ask for) mainly critiquing the photographer and telling me that I should shoot with him so I could get good photos. I ignored the messages for a while I think, but finally one day I firmly told him that I did not appreciate him insulting the people I was working with and asked him to stop, which he did.

I have also had to get a bit assertive during a couple shoots when I was asked to do something outside of my limits. I politely said I was not comfortable doing it and the photographer apologized, and we kept shooting.

Other than that I guess I have been pretty lucky. I also think I come off as not really taking any nonsense so maybe that has factored in as well. I am nice and I try to be as friendly as I can be, but, like I usually say, I am just too darn tiny to let people walk all over me ^_~

Feb 01 13 08:46 pm Link

Photographer

GER Photography

Posts: 8066

Imperial, California, US

The whole "don't burn your bridges" thing is all well and good, but always remember, to not try walking across someone else's that's already aflame!! Sometimes it's best to just walk away.

Feb 01 13 08:52 pm Link

Photographer

Bobby C

Posts: 1958

Portland, Oregon, US

you do need to pick your battles. but keeping quiet for the sake of "reputation" is a bad idea.

Feb 03 13 02:01 pm Link

Photographer

Mask Photo

Posts: 1414

Fremont, California, US

tl,dr.

If someone behaves unacceptably, i hit the block button and move on. Nothing I would say to them could possibly enrich my day, unless I wanted a laugh at reading their response, but if i wanted to troll, i'd just go to reddit.

You already wasted enough time on them. just block and move on to actual gigs. wink

Feb 03 13 08:13 pm Link

Photographer

Darren Brade

Posts: 2849

London, England, United Kingdom

I try not to dwell on things and go and do something better. It amazes me what some people say online.

OP. In your example it looks like you weren't the only one pitched too, this is common I'm afraid when you're talking such tight timescales. I cant see why you'd be upset unless it was confirmed which from what you typed it wasn't.

Darren x
www.facebook.com/darrenbradephotography

Feb 04 13 02:20 am Link

Model

V Laroche

Posts: 2746

Khowmeyn, Markazī, Iran

I do not want a reputation as someone who will tolerate all kinds of bullshit.

Feb 06 13 01:27 pm Link

Model

Kelleth

Posts: 2531

Toronto, Ontario, Canada

I think it's important to have a voice. That said, I let 99% of things roll off my back (or just complain about it to my husband or a friend). I will speak up if I'm being spoken to or treated inappropriately or if the client is completely abusing the terms we agreed to (trying to go WAY overtime, stiff me on pay, etc)...and I'll always do so in the most polite way possible. Fortunately I almost always work with awesome and kind people. For annoyances like described in the OP, I just NEVER work with that person again and do not recommend them if they're brought up in conversation. I feel like I've built my reputation on being kind and professional and it would really take an extreme situation for me to act in any other way.

Feb 08 13 11:30 am Link

Model

Alexandra - C

Posts: 254

Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada

DAN CRUIKSHANK wrote:
I bite my tongue...

Work with people who treat you with respect.

Forget about the rest.

No point in complaining about anything that is out of your control.

THIS ^^

It sucks but it happens hmm best to get over it/get thicker skin

It isn't personal, if I got upset about every llamaing or acting gig that didn't work out for one reason or another I would've driven myself crazy a long time ago lol

No use crying over spilt milk

Feb 08 13 11:56 am Link

Photographer

Art of the nude

Posts: 11892

Olivet, Michigan, US

V Laroche wrote:
I do not want a reputation as someone who will tolerate all kinds of bullshit.

That's the challenge; trying to keep a balance, whatever role you have in the process.  To not come off as "difficult", while not being pushed around and taken advantage of.

Feb 08 13 06:58 pm Link

Photographer

Rob Photosby

Posts: 3130

Brisbane, Queensland, Australia

All Yours Photography wrote:
MOST of the time, I will just do the "water off a duck's back" thing because I have better things to do with my time and energy and, oddly enough, rude people are the ones most likely to tell everyone they know about an instance where they feel someone didn't treat them well, however unfounded that feeling is.

Bang on!  The people who behave badly are often the ones most skilled at peddling lies and slanders, so the lesser of two evils is to refuse to give them things to distort to create more ammunition .

Feb 08 13 07:46 pm Link