Forums > Model Colloquy > Services No Longer Require... More TFP grief

Photographer

PR Zone

Posts: 769

London, England, United Kingdom

Saw a casting from a Model who wanted to create a very specific look - matching a famous singer. The model has the body, not the face, but with a great MUA the look could be achieved

I offered to do it - free - including studio, photography, MUA and retouching, but needed a specific MUA to be available

That was at the start of the 3rd week in January

The MUA contacted me today to say she's free tomorrow, so I contact the model to tie it down - and I'm informed that my 'Services are no longer required' because I have 'made her wait too long' and that the 3 week delay was 'totally unprofessional'


Er...  "Sorry, that was the first time that the hundreds of pounds worth of free work was available"

Or is it me?

Feb 09 13 09:59 am Link

Photographer

Marc Damon

Posts: 6562

Biloxi, Mississippi, US

She has 'the car complex'.

You offered her a brand spanking new top of the line fully loaded Mercedes. You paid for the car including TTL, filled the tank with gas, had it detailed inside and out, paid for 12 months full coverage zero deductible insurance, parked it in her driveway and then dangled the keys right in front of her.

She expected an Aston Martin One-77 because she's just that fabulous.

Feb 09 13 10:14 am Link

Photographer

Art of the nude

Posts: 11892

Olivet, Michigan, US

PR Zone wrote:
Saw a casting from a Model who wanted to create a very specific look - matching a famous singer. The model has the body, not the face, but with a great MUA the look could be achieved

I offered to do it - free - including studio, photography, MUA and retouching, but needed a specific MUA to be available

That was at the start of the 3rd week in January

The MUA contacted me today to say she's free tomorrow, so I contact the model to tie it down - and I'm informed that my 'Services are no longer required' because I have 'made her wait too long' and that the 3 week delay was 'totally unprofessional'


Er...  "Sorry, that was the first time that the hundreds of pounds worth of free work was available"

Or is it me?

Most likely, she either made other arrangements or lost interest.  You hadn't made a commitment, understandably.  So was she supposed to just sit around hoping and waiting?

Feb 09 13 10:15 am Link

Photographer

The Illuminated Pixel

Posts: 577

Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania, US

PR Zone wrote:
Or is it me?

*** hmmm, good question.

Feb 09 13 10:19 am Link

Photographer

ME_

Posts: 3146

Atlanta, Georgia, US

Sounds to me like you just got a fabulous shoot set up for tomorrow and all you need is a model with a hot bod. Shouldn't be too hard to pull off. Post a casting and start messaging models right now that you have this shoot set up for tomorrow. I'm sure you can find someone who'd love to be Gaga or Madonna or Beyonce or whoever you're talking about emulating, with a great makeup artist doing the transformation.

As for that other model, sounds like you probably saved yourself some trouble by having her cancel.

Feb 09 13 10:20 am Link

Photographer

Hero Foto

Posts: 878

Phoenix, Arizona, US

communications during those 3 wks ???

Feb 09 13 10:21 am Link

Model

MoRina

Posts: 5815

Fort Lauderdale, Florida, US

She wasn't as committed to the vision as you were.  Maybe that is because of lack of communication on your part...who knows?  Maybe you didn't explain the concept enough in terms that she understood so that she was on board with it.  Maybe she didn't think you were good enough to pull it off...maybe she didn't think she was good enough to pull it off.

When there was a delay in setting a date, did she know what the delay was for?  Was she expecting to hear from you within a couple days?  It is hard to tell what someone else is thinking if you haven't really communicated it properly.

Feb 09 13 10:24 am Link

Photographer

terrysphotocountry

Posts: 4144

Rochester, New York, US

Did you tell the model that you would try to put a team together? Sounds like that model just wants people to jump threw her hops.

Feb 09 13 10:27 am Link

Model

angel emily

Posts: 1020

Boston, Massachusetts, US

Sounds like she's no longer interested.

Sorry.

Feb 09 13 10:27 am Link

Photographer

The Illuminated Pixel

Posts: 577

Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania, US

seriously - you contacted someone like "drop everything and do this tomorrow" and you're upset it didn't happen? you went through all that trouble but didn't stay in communication with the subject? how is it a prob with the model?

Feb 09 13 10:29 am Link

Photographer

M Pandolfo Photography

Posts: 12116

Tampa, Florida, US

It sounds like there wasn't enough, or at least adequate, communication during the planning stages. If she thought it was unprofessional that it took 3 weeks I can only assume you weren't updating her and she thought you had just dropped the ball.

I can't imagine if there had been communication and you had informed her the talent or resources wouldn't be available for several weeks that that conversation would have gone the same way.

Feb 09 13 10:39 am Link

Photographer

ontherocks

Posts: 22606

Salem, Oregon, US

diva. next.

Feb 09 13 11:09 am Link

Photographer

WIP

Posts: 15541

Cheltenham, England, United Kingdom

PR Zone wrote:
I'm informed that my 'Services are no longer required' because I have 'made her wait too long' and that the 3 week delay was 'totally unprofessional'

3 weeks can be a life time for some models as they can age very fast.

Feb 09 13 12:28 pm Link

Photographer

James Ogilvie

Posts: 6643

Toronto, Ontario, Canada

PR Zone wrote:
Saw a casting from a Model who wanted to create a very specific look - matching a famous singer. The model has the body, not the face, but with a great MUA the look could be achieved

I offered to do it - free - including studio, photography, MUA and retouching, but needed a specific MUA to be available

That was at the start of the 3rd week in January

The MUA contacted me today to say she's free tomorrow, so I contact the model to tie it down - and I'm informed that my 'Services are no longer required' because I have 'made her wait too long' and that the 3 week delay was 'totally unprofessional'


Er...  "Sorry, that was the first time that the hundreds of pounds worth of free work was available"

Or is it me?

Sounds to me like the problem is with you.

Leaving the model in the dark for three weeks only to have things suddenly work out in the final hour - should you be surprised that she's not impressed and/or even prepared?

It doesn't matter that you were offering studio, shooting, MUA, etc - people kind of like their time to be treated with some degree of respect.  If your attitude is that she should be grateful regardless and ready to jump at your command, then you probably need to look inwardly and ask yourself how you'd feel if that were done to you.

Feb 09 13 12:40 pm Link

Photographer

London Fog

Posts: 6770

London, England, United Kingdom

Gotta agree with the others, it looks like you missed out by not keeping the line of communication going!

On any shoot, let alone a very key shoot such as the one you had planned, you have to nursemaid the whole process along. Speak to all concerned at least once or twice a week, more if there are many people involved. Typically, I will keep the channels open right up to an hour before shoot time, and should that fail there's always a back-up ready to go within hours, ha, even the back-up can fail though!

But, don't let it get you down, even at this hour (9.15pm at time of writing) you could easily find another model here in London. The place is literally bursting at the seams with gorgeous models!

Never too late to put out a casting!

Feb 09 13 01:16 pm Link

Photographer

Piscis Noctis

Posts: 11013

Santa Clara, California, US

ME_ wrote:
Sounds to me like you just got a fabulous shoot set up for tomorrow and all you need is a model with a hot bod. Shouldn't be too hard to pull off. Post a casting and start messaging models right now that you have this shoot set up for tomorrow. I'm sure you can find someone who'd love to be Gaga or Madonna or Beyonce or whoever you're talking about emulating, with a great makeup artist doing the transformation.

+1

In fact, I'd suggest scheduling 2 models instead of just one.

ETA: And OP, you might want to avoid doing this kind of post in general, and specifically in the model part of the forum tongue

Feb 09 13 01:18 pm Link

Photographer

Leighthenubian

Posts: 2964

Toronto, Ontario, Canada

PR Zone wrote:
Saw a casting from a Model who wanted to create a very specific look - matching a famous singer. The model has the body, not the face, but with a great MUA the look could be achieved

I offered to do it - free - including studio, photography, MUA and retouching, but needed a specific MUA to be available

That was at the start of the 3rd week in January

The MUA contacted me today to say she's free tomorrow, so I contact the model to tie it down - and I'm informed that my 'Services are no longer required' because I have 'made her wait too long' and that the 3 week delay was 'totally unprofessional'


Er...  "Sorry, that was the first time that the hundreds of pounds worth of free work was available"

Or is it me?

It's you.

Just because your offering her a complete makeover (sounds like) with all your "MUA, Retouching etc" doesn't give you the right to be unprofessional.

Feb 09 13 01:19 pm Link

Photographer

Select Models

Posts: 36190

Upland, California, US

Dude... there was ZERO investment on her behalf... and hundreds of pounds (dollars here), according to you, on your end.  What did she have to lose by cancelling on you?... not a freakin dime.  That's what happens when you work TFP and get nothing for a deposit.  Time to revamp your business plan... wink

Feb 09 13 01:32 pm Link

Model

Jojo West

Posts: 972

Silver Spring, Maryland, US

Some models schedule their shoots weeks in advance. I'm now scheduling shoots in late March and early April. Unfortunately if someone I've been talking to about shooting randomly sends me a message saying we can shoot tomorrow, I would decline as well because that day is more than likely already booked. Perhaps in the future you should keep in touch with a model more regularly if you're working on getting a team together so she isaware of the possibility that it might happen short notice, but that still won't guarantee she'll be able to make it. You have to communicate accordingly. Sorry, in this case it was you. sad 

That is unless you had a date set up...

Feb 09 13 01:42 pm Link

Photographer

Warren Stallings

Posts: 36

New York, New York, US

If photography does not pan out for you, dont try sales.  You dont have the skin for it.  Its called rejection, something that happens every single day.  Not to be condescending, but Mommy cant be around forever.

Feb 09 13 01:49 pm Link

Photographer

ME_

Posts: 3146

Atlanta, Georgia, US

I'm not understanding why people think he wasn't in enough contact with her. We really don't know how their conversations went. Was it "That sounds great, I'll get back to you when I can figure out if this specific MUA is available"; or "That sounds great but I definitely want to have this one specific MUA do it and I'm not sure when she is open. She normally gets booked weeks in advance. As soon as she tells me she's got a slot available, I'll contact you immediately with the details."

If someone contacted me more than 2 times, at the very most, in less than 3 weeks to say they were still working on the shoot details, I myself would be pretty much "OK quit bugging me, just tell me when it's set up, or if 2 months go by, whichever comes first."

I hate constant updates. I just don't have time for that.

Feb 09 13 01:53 pm Link

Photographer

Farenell Photography

Posts: 18128

Albany, New York, US

PR Zone wrote:
Saw a casting from a Model who wanted to create a very specific look - matching a famous singer. The model has the body, not the face, but with a great MUA the look could be achieved

I offered to do it - free - including studio, photography, MUA and retouching, but needed a specific MUA to be available

That was at the start of the 3rd week in January

The MUA contacted me today to say she's free tomorrow, so I contact the model to tie it down - and I'm informed that my 'Services are no longer required' because I have 'made her wait too long' and that the 3 week delay was 'totally unprofessional'

If it was her casting & she giving you a response like that, it probably means she already shot the idea w/ someone else.

Feb 09 13 02:00 pm Link

Model

Jojo West

Posts: 972

Silver Spring, Maryland, US

ME_ wrote:
just tell me when it's set up, or if 2 months go by, whichever comes first."

That all fine and dandy, but you can't expect it to be ok to be told the day before "hey we're set for tomorrow see you there", that's unrealistic. *shrug*

Feb 09 13 02:25 pm Link

Photographer

ME_

Posts: 3146

Atlanta, Georgia, US

Jojo West wrote:

That all fine and dandy, but you can't expect it to be ok to be told the day before "hey we're set for tomorrow see you there", that's unrealistic. *shrug*

That is true, but we don't know if that's what he said or how the previous conversations went. Maybe they discussed the likely possibility that things would be very last-minute because of this MUA's schedule.

Or, it really could be all the OP's fault.

Feb 09 13 02:29 pm Link

Photographer

Valenten Photography

Posts: 265

Balikpapan, Kalimantan Timur, Indonesia

Michael Pandolfo wrote:
It sounds like there wasn't enough, or at least adequate, communication during the planning stages. If she thought it was unprofessional that it took 3 weeks I can only assume you weren't updating her and she thought you had just dropped the ball.

I can't imagine if there had been communication and you had informed her the talent or resources wouldn't be available for several weeks that that conversation would have gone the same way.

This.

Based on what you're saying it seems that indeed there weren't enough communication between you and your model. Or maybe she hadn't understand you would be looking for an MUA, and was just thinking you would contact her when you'll have a more precise plan - but not a "hey can we shoot tomorrow" plan. Probably just a problem of communication, unless you kept her updated about your researches etc

Feb 09 13 02:56 pm Link

Photographer

Ken Marcus Studios

Posts: 8492

Los Angeles, California, US

A three week delay without communications is very unprofessional. I don't blame her for dismissing you.

Feb 09 13 03:02 pm Link

Photographer

WIP

Posts: 15541

Cheltenham, England, United Kingdom

I see no problem with a 3 week gap with no communication, I've done it as have llamas.

Feb 09 13 03:07 pm Link

Photographer

London Fog

Posts: 6770

London, England, United Kingdom

c_h_r_i_s wrote:
I see no problem with a 3 week gap with no communication, I've done it as have models.

True, but once that momentum has gone it's very difficult to get it all back together, unless it's someone you know well.

Feb 09 13 03:16 pm Link

Photographer

M Pandolfo Photography

Posts: 12116

Tampa, Florida, US

ME_ wrote:
I hate constant updates. I just don't have time for that.

There's a difference between constant, unproductive updates ("Hey..soooo...how are you?") and informing the client of status changes (Just wanted to let you know I'm meeting with 2 MUA's this week and after we meet I'll drop you an email to let you know how it went...")

It seems that, in this case, some update within the period of 3 weeks would have been welcome by the model. Now, why she didn't contact him asking for a status and just went ahead and hired someone else, I don't know.

If I was hired for a project and went 3 weeks without updating or touching base with the client I'm pretty sure they'd be looking for someone else too.

Feb 09 13 03:18 pm Link

Photographer

Andrew Thomas Evans

Posts: 24078

Minneapolis, Minnesota, US

That's a long time to wait for a "are you free tomorrow" type of deal. Not sure if I'd say it wasn't professional, but it could have been unexpected on her end.





Andrew Thomas Evans
www.andrewthomasevans.com

Feb 09 13 03:25 pm Link

Artist/Painter

MainePaintah

Posts: 1779

Saco, Maine, US

I read this post as "unrealistic expectations" from both parties.

Feb 09 13 03:36 pm Link

Photographer

Leighthenubian

Posts: 2964

Toronto, Ontario, Canada

c_h_r_i_s wrote:
I see no problem with a 3 week gap with no communication, I've done it as have llamas.

Customer Service is job one if you are a professional. I don't know of a single llama, MUA or other talent ( worth shooting) that thinks 3 weeks is ok without some sort of communication about what's going on.

Feb 09 13 03:39 pm Link

Model

Rachel_Elizabeth_22

Posts: 388

Birmingham, England, United Kingdom

As others have said still time to post a casting :-) x

Feb 09 13 03:58 pm Link

Photographer

WIP

Posts: 15541

Cheltenham, England, United Kingdom

Illuminate wrote:
Customer Service is job one if you are a professional. I don't know of a single model, MUA or other talent ( worth shooting) that thinks 3 weeks is ok without some sort of communication about what's going on.

From what I'm reading the op fulfilled the requirements for models casting. It was the model who was creating the look the photographer was supplying MUA and studio ect.

As someone has already pointed out the model is a diva.

Feb 09 13 04:24 pm Link

Photographer

Leighthenubian

Posts: 2964

Toronto, Ontario, Canada

c_h_r_i_s wrote:
From what I'm reading the op fulfilled the requirements for llamas casting. It was the llama who was creating the look the photographer was supplying MUA and studio ect.

As someone has already pointed out the llama is a diva.

Once he replied to the casting he was engaged. If he was interested enough to offer up all the perks that he claimed, I would assume he would have kept the lines of communications going. Maybe used the time to meet the llama, etc nail down the concept why,when etc. being a professional is much more than simply tripping the shutter. treat every project like the real thing...otherwise why do it?

Feb 09 13 05:47 pm Link

Photographer

intense_puppy

Posts: 864

Brighton, England, United Kingdom

Unlike everyone else here I'm going to say it's HER not you.
It was her concept and you agreed to create it "for her". That coupled with the fact that it's TFP means there's nothing to be "unprofessional" about.

Diva. You dodged a bullet there, my friend.

However, as you seem to be really into the concept yourself (I assume so as you've invested a lot in pre-production) he's what I'd do -
Call up one of your go-to models - someone you can rely on to shoot with you at short notice (I think most photographers know a few models like this). Then shoot the concept anyway and send the original model the photos.

"Here's what you missed out on. Bye!" smile

Feb 09 13 05:59 pm Link

guide forum

Photographer

GPS Studio Services

Posts: 36276

San Francisco, California, US

I don't understand the issue.  The shoot just didn't work out.

Feb 09 13 06:06 pm Link

Model

Kelleth

Posts: 2528

Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Did you remain in communication for those three weeks or just only let her know last minute?

Feb 09 13 06:12 pm Link

Photographer

Light and Lens Studio

Posts: 1435

Sisters, Oregon, US

twoharts wrote:
diva. next.

+1

This gets my vote

Feb 09 13 06:16 pm Link

Photographer

Brian Scanlon

Posts: 790

Encino, California, US

GPS Studio Services wrote:
I don't understand the issue.  The shoot just didn't work out.

+1

Feb 09 13 06:44 pm Link