Forums > Model Colloquy > Average time on MM for models?

Photographer

rp_photo

Posts: 42494

Houston, Texas, US

I was reviewing several 5 to 6 year old "Zombie" threads, and found that virtually every model who had posted back then is now gone, with the opposite being true for photographers.

Just one more example of the "enthusiasm imbalance" that we photographers must cope with.

Feb 10 13 07:14 am Link

Photographer

Abbitt Photography

Posts: 11721

Oakland Acres, Iowa, US

Certainly there are some models that have stuck with it for years, but I also find most in my area just do a couple shoots and then fade away.   Since profiles stay around until deleted, it's hard to define how long they actually model for, but when I do searches, I'm surprised to see what a huge percent of the model profiles did a few shoots right after joining and nothing since.

Feb 10 13 07:32 am Link

Photographer

Art of the nude

Posts: 11892

Olivet, Michigan, US

rp_photo wrote:
I was reviewing several 5 to 6 year old "Zombie" threads, and found that virtually every model who had posted back then is now gone, with the opposite being true for photographers.

Just one more example of the "enthusiasm imbalance" that we photographers must cope with.

Some are here briefly, and create great things, then move on.  Others are here for a long time and do the same.  Some never shoot.  Some come and go.  I don't know how you'd come up with decent data to prove anything.  Certainly it shouldn't be shocking that a group of people that mostly consists of 18-22 year olds is going to have changing priorities over time.

Feb 10 13 07:38 am Link

Photographer

HOTTIE SHOTS

Posts: 5959

Memphis, Tennessee, US

In my 7 years on MM I have found that most models join and stay for 6-18 months.  During that time they may have 2 or 3 shoots if they are just playing around with the site, or even may have 30-50 shoots if they work hard to make something happen.  But usually at the end of 18 months they are not famous, not making money, have lots of pictures, and they just move on to do something else.

Feb 10 13 07:38 am Link

Photographer

Personal Photograph

Posts: 245

Davenport, Iowa, US

I really like the "active since" filter when searching.  I rarely look at profiles over 90 days inactive.

Feb 10 13 07:38 am Link

Photographer

Decay of Memory

Posts: 600

Asheville, North Carolina, US

Yes, many people move in and out of the identity fairly quickly. For most, there's not much future in it.  There's some flattery, some quick cash, adventure, validation, but there are downsides as well. A small minority have the personal skills and business smarts, along with the lifestyle choices, that make it a viable career for at least a few years.

Feb 10 13 07:44 am Link

Model

MelissaAnn

Posts: 3956

Seattle, Washington, US

I think there's a fairly obvious reason for that.  Models usually only have about 5 years when they're in their "prime" for modeling.  Beyond that, many of them discover they don't have a look that makes any money.

Photographers can be as ugly/old/unkept as they like- beauty is not a requirement to be a good photographer.  If a photographer's style is not working, they can change it.  Models can not change their height/features (short of major cosmetic surgery).

When I can't model anymore (probably soon) I plan to do photography.  There's  your answer. wink

Feb 10 13 10:05 am Link

Photographer

Kent Art Photography

Posts: 2911

Ashford, England, United Kingdom

It might also have something to do with the unrelenting requests to do adult interest nudes.

Feb 10 13 10:09 am Link

Photographer

EdwardKristopher

Posts: 3377

Tempe, Arizona, US

Personal Photograph wrote:
I really like the "active since" filter when searching.  I rarely look at profiles over 90 days inactive.

When I go out and "Browse" for someone to shoot with I don't go beyond 10 Days Last Active...I used look at them all, yet that was so long ago...  smile

Feb 10 13 10:12 am Link

Photographer

RKD Photographic

Posts: 3265

Iserlohn, North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany

Looking at the stats on the German site I use the average is two years and five shoots for those doing TFP fashion-portrait-lingerie.

For those shooting topless & nude (and asking for pay-shoot only) it's five years and 50+ shoots.

I think it says more about internet photographers than the models...

Feb 10 13 10:24 am Link

Photographer

T-D-L

Posts: 10303

Los Angeles, California, US

Shorter shelf life for models; seems as most on MM start in early to mid-20's.  For most they're done by late 20's, if that.  I'd be surprised if older models (30+) book as much or as sought after as their 20 year old counterparts.

Also, you have to look at it like this: the majority are hobbyists.  Modeling for fun and telling your friends on FB is fine and dandy when you're 18 or even 25...but once you're 30 most people tend to be more career (or even family) oriented and don't have as much time to devote to their hobby.  The same is true for models in general, as most agency girls will admit that while they can possibly go commercial in their late 20's/early 30's that they'd rather settle down and start a family or go back to college (usually around 25).

Feb 10 13 10:25 am Link

Photographer

rp_photo

Posts: 42494

Houston, Texas, US

Kent Art Photography wrote:
It might also have something to do with the unrelenting requests to do adult interest nudes.

Sometimes I worry about losing models to photographers they like better than me, but losing them to ones who upset them is a far greater concern.

Feb 10 13 10:51 am Link

Photographer

Cherrystone

Posts: 36704

Columbus, Ohio, US

Kent Art Photography wrote:
It might also have something to do with the unrelenting requests to do adult interest nudes.

rp_photo wrote:
Sometimes I worry about losing models to photographers they like better than me, but losing them to ones who upset them is a far greater concern.

Losing?

Feb 10 13 10:53 am Link

Model

Shandra Stark

Posts: 13612

Los Angeles, California, US

In exactly 2 days, it will be my 7-year anniversary here!!

Feb 10 13 10:55 am Link

Photographer

GER Photography

Posts: 7934

Imperial, California, US

For some, it would seem, the mere wink of an eye, for others, an eternity!:-))

Feb 10 13 11:03 am Link

Photographer

David Kirk

Posts: 4501

Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

rp_photo wrote:

Sometimes I worry about losing models to photographers they like better than me, but losing them to ones who upset them is a far greater concern.

Losing models to other photographers???

Did you look to see how many models have joined the site vs. how many have left in a given time period?  People move on, but others take their place.  What's the issue?  Are you actually seeing a diminishing number of active models over time in your area?

Feb 10 13 11:04 am Link

Photographer

BTHPhoto

Posts: 6815

Fairbanks, Alaska, US

I think a large number of llamas on MM (and other web llamaing sites) sign up thinking they'll find lots of people who want to photograph their style and vision, not thinking that they can be used as a llama to create other peoples' styles and visions.  What they really want is creative portraits, not llamaing opportunities.  When they figure out there aren't many photographers looking for an opportunity like they, they move on.

Feb 10 13 11:12 am Link

Photographer

LA StarShooter

Posts: 1867

Los Angeles, California, US

Shandra Stark wrote:
In exactly 2 days, it will be my 7-year anniversary here!!

Congratulations. I wish you many more.

Feb 10 13 11:16 am Link

Photographer

rp_photo

Posts: 42494

Houston, Texas, US

David Kirk wrote:

Losing models to other photographers???

Did you look to see how many models have joined the site vs. how many have left in a given time period?  People move on, but others take their place.  What's the issue?  Are you actually seeing a diminishing number of active models over time in your area?

I believe that many models give up because of bad photographer behavior, either during the shoot or by not giving images. Therefore models are lost to them.

Feb 10 13 11:24 am Link

Photographer

David Kirk

Posts: 4501

Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

rp_photo wrote:
I believe that many llamas give up because of bad photographer behavior, either during the shoot or by not giving images. Therefore llamas are lost to them.

Maybe that's true, but aren't there more joining every single day?  In my area it seems (I am not sure because I don't measure these things) that the number of active llamas on MM is increasing not decreasing.

Feb 10 13 12:03 pm Link

Photographer

WIP

Posts: 15540

Cheltenham, England, United Kingdom

They acquire a folio of pretty pictures and move away from MM. Because that's what they come on the site for, not to model but a few pretty pictures.

It works out to join MM to get free pictures than paying a photographer.
There will probably be more of these short term models as they just want pictures for FB.

Feb 10 13 12:18 pm Link

Photographer

Art of the nude

Posts: 11892

Olivet, Michigan, US

RKD Photographic wrote:
Looking at the stats on the German site I use the average is two years and five shoots for those doing TFP fashion-portrait-lingerie.

For those shooting topless & nude (and asking for pay-shoot only) it's five years and 50+ shoots.

I think it says more about internet photographers than the models...

Or that for models who want free pictures for facebook, there is a lot more competition, while those who comfortably shoot less common genres will have steadier interest.

Feb 10 13 02:18 pm Link

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Model

Koryn

Posts: 36708

Boston, Massachusetts, US

If you count the couple of years that I only posed for figure drawing/painting artists and sculpture, before I actually started doing consistent photography modeling, I've modeled for 8 years.

I've been on MM and active for 6 years.

*shrug*

Feb 10 13 07:15 pm Link

Photographer

Sourcelight Photography

Posts: 268

Boise City, Idaho, US

MelissaAnn  wrote:
When I can't model anymore (probably soon) I plan to do photography.  There's  your answer. wink

It worked for me.  Hey, don't quit before I have a chance to work with you!

Feb 10 13 07:33 pm Link

Photographer

ArtGlo

Posts: 506

Peru, Illinois, US

Shandra Stark wrote:
In exactly 2 days, it will be my 7-year anniversary here!!

happy 7 years!

Feb 10 13 07:39 pm Link

Photographer

PhotographybyT

Posts: 7692

Monterey, California, US

MelissaAnn  wrote:
Photographers can be as ugly/old/unkept ....

HEEEEY! Who you calling "old?"  tongue

Feb 10 13 07:40 pm Link

Model

allison mindy

Posts: 1495

New York, New York, US

You have to realize that a model's shelf life is FAR shorter than a photographers. Plus I imagine there are more photographers who do photography as their day job than there are models.

Feb 10 13 07:42 pm Link

Model

a raw muse

Posts: 3196

Amundsen-Scott - permanent station of the US, Unclaimed Sector, Antarctica

"enthusiasm imbalance"?

how about modeling is a very time-sensitive career?

except for art modeling, in most genres models retire relatively young.

photography can be a life-long career for a greater percentage of those that choose to make a career of it.

ETA: glad to see I'm not the only one who said so.

Feb 10 13 07:45 pm Link

Photographer

Sourcelight Photography

Posts: 268

Boise City, Idaho, US

BTW... before this grows to 5 pages or more, you might want to check this one, which is still going on:

http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?threa … age=1#last

Feb 10 13 07:51 pm Link

Model

Misty R H

Posts: 471

Anaheim, California, US

I also think that many girls have unrealistic expectations.  I remember meeting a young girl that wanted to be a plus size model. The thing is she was about 5'2" and weighed at least 170 pounds. She thought since she was overweight she could be a plus size model. 

Many girls probably start out thinking they can be a fashion or runway model but then only later find out that they don't have the physical requirements so they get discouraged.

Also modeling is extremely competitive even if you do have the right qualifications.  I have applied to casting calls that have had over 2,500 submissions for a single job.

Let's face it only a small percentage of models overall have the type of success girls dream of.

Feb 10 13 08:17 pm Link

Model

NicoleNudes

Posts: 3860

Toronto, Ontario, Canada

MelissaAnn  wrote:
I think there's a fairly obvious reason for that.  Models usually only have about 5 years when they're in their "prime" for modeling.  Beyond that, many of them discover they don't have a look that makes any money.

Photographers can be as ugly/old/unkept as they like- beauty is not a requirement to be a good photographer.  If a photographer's style is not working, they can change it.  Models can not change their height/features (short of major cosmetic surgery).

When I can't model anymore (probably soon) I plan to do photography.  There's  your answer. wink

Noooooo you can't quit! You're one of my favs!

Feb 10 13 08:26 pm Link

Photographer

Dan K Photography

Posts: 5466

STATEN ISLAND, New York, US

MelissaAnn  wrote:
When I can't model anymore (probably soon) I plan to do photography.  There's  your answer. wink

What?? At least wait until I get the chance:(

Feb 10 13 08:29 pm Link

Photographer

Gene Cannon

Posts: 95

Wendell, North Carolina, US

This seems to be so true! Some models are so "gung ho" when they begin and may last only for a couple of months before they loose interest. They evidently do not realize how much effort it takes to become successful and determine that modeling is not for them. I feel that some who are attractive and have a nice figure just think that it means they will be successful as a model.

Feb 11 13 02:47 am Link

Photographer

Karl Barbosa Photo

Posts: 44

Montreal, Quebec, Canada

As others have stated, it's precisely why I always sort by either Last Activity or Recently Updated when I browse models.

Feb 11 13 08:13 am Link

Clothing Designer

Wilde Hunt Corsetry

Posts: 344

Columbus, Ohio, US

rp_photo wrote:
Just one more example of the "enthusiasm imbalance" that we photographers must cope with.

I don't think this is a unique issue with models. It's just as common with fashion designers, makeup artists, or well, photographers too. Creative arts have high burn out rates. It's hard work!

Feb 11 13 09:03 am Link

Photographer

RKD Photographic

Posts: 3265

Iserlohn, North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany

BTHPhoto wrote:
I think a large number of models on MM (and other web modeling sites) sign up thinking they'll find lots of people who want to photograph their style and vision, not thinking that they can be used as a model to create other peoples' styles and visions.  What they really want is creative portraits, not modeling opportunities.  When they figure out there aren't many photographers looking for an opportunity like they, they move on.

True - I've contacted quite a few models around here with (I thought) some quite interesting ideas, only to be told 'that's not who I am'...

Well of course it's not - I never imagined you'd be a slutty serial-killer wearing ripped stockings and a basque, smoking a cigar and carrying an assault rifle in your spare time... hmm

Feb 11 13 09:27 am Link

Model

Dekilah

Posts: 4890

Detroit, Michigan, US

I have been on here a little while. My 4 year modeling/MM anniversary is coming up soon and I really do not see myself going any where for a very long time. I think models tend to have more turn over because:
- they are younger and still trying things out
- modeling in general has a shorter shelf life
- a model's success depends partly on her look, which she can only change so much, where as a photographer can gain skills
- models expect things that just do not happen, or do not happen to most (popularity, making money/a living, etc)

I think those of us with more flexible goals or who can adapt stick around longer. Some models have very specific goals and when they meet those goals or decide they cannot meet those goals they choose to move on. And in some cases that is good. I have done that with many other things in my life (relationships, career goals, hobbies, etc). But for me, modeling is something I enjoy. I enjoy the art, I enjoy the interactions with people, I enjoy the teaching (and the learning), I enjoy exploring new facets of it, and so on. There are plenty of times when I thought about letting it go, but I adapted instead. And every day I am glad I have (and continue to). ^_^

Feb 11 13 10:10 am Link

Photographer

WIP

Posts: 15540

Cheltenham, England, United Kingdom

RKD Photographic wrote:
Looking at the stats on the German site I use the average is two years and five shoots for those doing TFP fashion-portrait-lingerie.

For those shooting topless & nude (and asking for pay-shoot only) it's five years and 50+ shoots.

They seem to be very busy models.............. not modelling.

Feb 11 13 03:40 pm Link