Forums > Model Colloquy > Client decides not to use it

Model

angel emily

Posts: 1020

Boston, Massachusetts, US

Did a shoot for a big company a few months ago and ran into the videographer the other day who informed me the client decided not to use it and is instead going to replace the scene with another totally different shot.  Nothing I or anyone did wrong, just a change of direction.

I was paid for the shoot, just totally sucks that it's not going to be used. sad    I wanted to put it on my resume.   To my knowledge, this is the first time this has happened in something I've been involved in.  Has anyone else ever had this happen?   Is there some way to prevent this from happening or is it just an unfortunate circumstance of this business?  They said they might still use it in the future, but who knows really.   I realize it's probably a lost cause, I'm just bummed.

Feb 18 13 08:22 am Link

Photographer

David Kirk

Posts: 4547

Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

This is not uncommon - rest assured you are not the first to be left on the cutting room floor.  Often the final product is not exactly as planned. 

Sometimes some portions don't work out as well as planned, but even when they do sometimes they just don't "fit" as well with the other portions as first envisoned.  The creative process does not stop when filming/shooting is complete.  Editing is a necessary part of the process and it is expected that some material won't make it to the final product.

There's nothing you can do to prevent it other than ride the odds by doing more work and hoping next time your portion will survive the cutting room.

Feb 18 13 08:51 am Link

Photographer

James Scolari

Posts: 81

Los Angeles, California, US

I've experienced the same, with work that everyone thought just rocked. The client's wife felt left out of the creative process, and so pressured him to kill the whole shoot.

I've learned - the hard way - to do the best work I can, deliver it, and then let go any attachment to an outcome. When the work is complete, we simply let it go.

and

I'd say it still works on your resumé; you did the work, didn't you?

Feb 18 13 09:01 am Link

Model

angel emily

Posts: 1020

Boston, Massachusetts, US

David Kirk wrote:
This is not uncommon - rest assured you are not the first to be left on the cutting room floor.  Often the final product is not exactly as planned. 

Sometimes some portions don't work out as well as planned, but even when they do sometimes they just don't "fit" as well with the other portions as first envisoned.  The creative process does not stop when filming/shooting is complete.  Editing is a necessary part of the process and it is expected that some material won't make it to the final product.

There's nothing you can do to prevent it other than ride the odds by doing more work and hoping next time your portion will survive the cutting room.

Thanks, David.  I'm highly self-critical and I have been trying to fend off doubts and wondering if it got cut because I just wasn't good enough, if I could have been better (it was group scene), but I understand that sometimes it just doesn't work and it may have had nothing to do with me at all.

Feb 18 13 09:02 am Link

Body Painter

Airballin

Posts: 318

Oakland, California, US

I just recently worked on a project for a major brand. That was supposed to be used as an add campaign in a major magazine release.  I am quite sure they spent $250,000 or more putting it together. Just basing that number on how many people were involved. How many day's we shot and knowing what I got paid daily to participate.

Then 2 weeks ago. Just got the email. "We have decided to go in a different direction with the add campaign. Heartbreaking! So I understand and feel your pain.

But as I've been told. That's pretty much normal protocol with major brands. Doesn't have anything to do with anything our team could have done right or wrong.

Feb 18 13 09:03 am Link

Model

angel emily

Posts: 1020

Boston, Massachusetts, US

James Scolari wrote:
I'd say it still works on your resumé; you did the work, didn't you?

Thanks.  To be honest, I wasn't sure if I could still put it on my resume as it's not published.   I did it, but I have nothing to show for it - does it still "count"?  What do you/others think?

Feb 18 13 09:03 am Link

Photographer

Mortonovich

Posts: 5682

San Diego, California, US

Happens all the time.

As a side note, this is a good example of why it is totally laughable
when someone claims to "guarantee tears". It doesn't work that way.

Feb 18 13 09:06 am Link

Model

angel emily

Posts: 1020

Boston, Massachusetts, US

Airballin wrote:
I just recently worked on a project for a major brand. That was supposed to be used as an add campaign in a major magazine release.  I am quite sure they spent $250,000 or more putting it together. Just basing that number on how many people were involved. How many day's we shot and knowing what I got paid daily to participate.

Then 2 weeks ago. Just got the email. "We have decided to go in a different direction with the add campaign. Heartbreaking! So I understand and feel your pain.

But as I've been told. That's pretty much normal protocol with major brands. Doesn't have anything to do with anything our team could have done right or wrong.

It is heartbreaking!  I was embarrassed/depressed when I got the news.   Let's share a bowl of ice cream together! smile

Feb 18 13 09:06 am Link

Body Painter

Airballin

Posts: 318

Oakland, California, US

ChiMo wrote:
Happens all the time.

As a side note, this is a good example of why it is totally laughable
when someone claims to "guarantee tears". It doesn't work that way.

+1

Feb 18 13 09:06 am Link

Body Painter

Airballin

Posts: 318

Oakland, California, US

e m i l y wrote:
It is heartbreaking!  I was embarrassed/depressed when I got the news.   Let's share a bowl of ice cream together! smile

smile

I think I was quite embarrassed too. Because I told everybody I know to look for my work in the specific add in a specific magazine on a specific date....lol. Now I have to do the walk of shame around my friends when they say "hey! when is x,y,z being released?" lol

Feb 18 13 09:07 am Link

Model

angel emily

Posts: 1020

Boston, Massachusetts, US

ChiMo wrote:
Happens all the time.

As a side note, this is a good example of why it is totally laughable
when someone claims to "guarantee tears". It doesn't work that way.

Good point!

Feb 18 13 09:07 am Link

Photographer

Mortonovich

Posts: 5682

San Diego, California, US

James Scolari wrote:
I'd say it still works on your resumé; you did the work, didn't you?

e m i l y wrote:
Thanks.  To be honest, I wasn't sure if I could still put it on my resume as it's not published.   I did it, but I have nothing to show for it - does it still "count"?  What do you/others think?

No.  Yes, you may have done the gig but if questioned and you go "Oh, well, they decided not to use the material . . ." you're gonna get the side-eye.

Feb 18 13 09:07 am Link

guide forum

Photographer

Rays Fine Art

Posts: 6499

New York, New York, US

It sucks, but it happens.  I recently did a commercial for a major distiller--beautiful job, looked good, then the client decided to chop what had been planned as a series of related ads, a real campaign down to a single piece of patched-together cameos.  I ended up with three words.  I was actually relieved when the client scrapped the whole thing.

Feb 18 13 09:08 am Link

Model

angel emily

Posts: 1020

Boston, Massachusetts, US

ChiMo wrote:

James Scolari wrote:
I'd say it still works on your resumé; you did the work, didn't you?

No.  Yes, you may have done the gig but if questioned and you go "Oh, well, they decided not to use the material . . ." you're gonna get the side-eye.

Thanks, that's what I thought, too.

Feb 18 13 09:10 am Link

Model

angel emily

Posts: 1020

Boston, Massachusetts, US

Airballin wrote:

smile

I think I was quite embarrassed too. Because I told everybody I know to look for my work in the specific add in a specific magazine on a specific date....lol. Now I have to do the walk of shame around my friends when they say "hey! when is x,y,z being released?" lol

Really good lesson here!

Feb 18 13 09:13 am Link

Photographer

M Pandolfo Photography

Posts: 12116

Tampa, Florida, US

e m i l y wrote:
Thanks, David.  I'm highly self-critical and I have been trying to fend off doubts and wondering if it got cut because I just wasn't good enough, if I could have been better (it was group scene), but I understand that sometimes it just doesn't work and it may have had nothing to do with me at all.

Happens all the time and it's almost never because of anything that the talent did wrong. It has more to do with the marketing and advertising direction changing for whatever reason - budget, campaign direction, etc.

You can say you worked with the client but I don't think it's a good idea to claim it as a publishing credit.

On a related note, imagine being an actress and you've got your first speaking role in a major movie...and you find out your entire part ended up on the cutting room floor. It happens a lot and not just to bit players. But it would definitely suck lol. Can they still list that movie as an acting credit?

Edit: just to give you an example of a real-life example and how it's not talent-related. I did a shoot for a Royal Caribbean marketing campaign (lifestyle) and did the usual shots of models enjoying a cruise and the destinations. A month later marketing for RCI decided they wanted to focus on the gourmet food and "dine anytime" options and all the work anyone involved (model, myself, etc) was scrapped and they hired another photographer who specializes in food photography to take images of the menu items. All new players were brought in...food stylist, crew.

Obviously, they couldn't have marketed these new menu items by showing the existing photos I took. But it wasn't because the images we took were bad.

Marketing departments change their collective minds...constantly.

Feb 18 13 09:15 am Link

guide forum

Photographer

Rays Fine Art

Posts: 6499

New York, New York, US

James Scolari wrote:
I'd say it still works on your resumé; you did the work, didn't you?

e m i l y wrote:
Thanks.  To be honest, I wasn't sure if I could still put it on my resume as it's not published.   I did it, but I have nothing to show for it - does it still "count"?  What do you/others think?

ChiMo wrote:
No.  Yes, you may have done the gig but if questioned and you go "Oh, well, they decided not to use the material . . ." you're gonna get the side-eye.

I disagree.  I've never been questioned on a commercial or a webcast because they come and go so often.  If there is any discussion on the content of my resume it's usually more along the lines "What project did you enjoy most?"  If asked specifically about the whiskey job (above) I'd use it as an example of how professionally I handle disappointment and the fact that I was called back a couple of months later to do another job for the same producer.

Of course, print work might be different because of its permanence.

Feb 18 13 09:17 am Link

Photographer

Mortonovich

Posts: 5682

San Diego, California, US

^^^
Fair enough, Ray. Though I was assuming Emily has no visual material to show from the job so it has less weight, if any at all, whereas you have, of course, plenty of material to show from the whiskey job.

Feb 18 13 09:21 am Link

Model

angel emily

Posts: 1020

Boston, Massachusetts, US

Michael Pandolfo wrote:
On a related note, imagine being an actress and you've got your first speaking role in a major movie...and you find out your entire part ended up on the cutting room floor. It happens a lot and not just to bit players. But it would definitely suck lol. Can they still list that movie as an acting credit?

I don't think so.   

Thanks for sharing another take on this.

I always thought a resume should be full of things you can show for.  I wouldn't want a resume stating a bunch of works that "never actually made it", that seems unethical to me.   I agree, if questioned, that could make one look bad and like a liar.

So yeah, saying I worked with the client might be okay... but why even bother saying that, when I have nothing to show for it?   In my case it just seems better to leave it off, unfortunately. sad

Feb 18 13 09:28 am Link

Model

Kelleth

Posts: 2531

Toronto, Ontario, Canada

There's no way to prevent it from happening. Even if you do an amazing job 100% of the time, it will still happen on occasion. It sucks, but as long as you got paid then it's all good.

I shot a campaign once (a long time ago) for a huge department store and, last minute, head office decided they needed to run a completely different campaign because they now wanted to feature entirely different brands in the ad (and said new brands were for an older clientelle so they had to use an older model). It had nothing to do with me but it was still a little disappointing. Some things have to be approved by such a massive chain of people that it's not surprising when a problem occurs somewhere and opinions differ on how things "should have been done".

Even worse (and this is a slightly different scenario), I had an agency booking for a HUGELY high paying job with a top photographer. It was all very exciting. I got to set, went through hair and makeup, and everyone was super happy. The client walked in for no more then two minutes and left without saying a word. I found out five minutes later that he had decided to not go on with the shoot because he HATED models with dark hair. Everyone had warned me about this client being a complete nightmare on set but I was completely floored when it happened. He had seen me at the casting, the fitting AND a showroom the previous week and knew my hair was a dark brown(the same colour and style it is in all my pictures too). I found out later from everyone on set (and my agency) that this client does this every season and has some serious personal problems. The photographer even called my agency to make sure it was clear that this had NOTHING to do with me and that I was great and the client was literally nuts. Still, I took it very personally and was very upset for the remainder of that day...(but it wasn't too hard to get over it when my agency billed them the full amount). That said, it still stung a little.

Moral of the story: sometimes the client has to go in a different direction, and sometimes they're insane and have no idea what they want.

Feb 18 13 10:26 am Link

Model

Gitte

Posts: 995

Newton, Massachusetts, US

I say put it on your resume,- you did the job and was paid for it.
Do you hunt down every job to see if it made it? So many times you never see the final product.

Feb 19 13 06:10 am Link

Photographer

Drew Smith Photography

Posts: 5210

Nottingham, England, United Kingdom

Emily - I wouldn't credit it if it got canned. Somebody with your Star quality doesn't need to do that. smile

I would image it was everybody else in the group shoot that just didn't come up to your standard. They saw this and decided to go a different way with it. You'll be getting a call from them anytime now asking you back as the main protagonist. smile

Feb 19 13 06:23 am Link

Photographer

Wolfy4u

Posts: 1103

Grand Junction, Colorado, US

I'd put it on your resume as a 'Demo' for the client.

I spent many years writing music for ads in TV and radio and the reasons for rejection are as diverse as anything can be. I once had my music rejected because I hadn't used a piano in the song, and one of the owners played piano.
Sometimes an owner's wife/husband simply says "I don't like that". Sometimes another artist (graphics, etc.)  involved says "That's not what I heard in my head".
Once, I did a music track in LA, sent it to New York where they mixed it with the video, and there was a problem with the mix, and the engineer said the problem was that my track was "out of tune" so they did a quick re-record with half the musicians, not nearly as professional, and used that. I still have the original which is perfectly 'in tune' and totally professional.

All you can do, is the best you can with the information that you're given at the beginning. If it was your fault, they would have told you for sure. Sometimes they say it's your fault even when it isn't.

Feb 19 13 06:25 am Link

Photographer

PTPhotoUT

Posts: 1961

Salt Lake City, Utah, US

I was filmed for a video game and a movie short. Neither project made it through post production so my work will probably never see the light of day. It happens.

Feb 19 13 06:26 am Link

Model

angel emily

Posts: 1020

Boston, Massachusetts, US

Gitte wrote:
Do you hunt down every job to see if it made it? So many times you never see the final product.

I know this, and I understand they have no obligation to me, I just like to see/know what happened to the projects I work on, if I can find it. Hardly 'hunting down', I happened to run into the videographer who shot the material for this. It's nice to be able to point to something concrete and say "I worked on this".  Isn't that the point of tears?

Feb 19 13 06:30 am Link

Photographer

D-Fotograf

Posts: 54

Frankfurt, Hassia, Germany

e m i l y wrote:
Did a shoot for a big company a few months ago and ran into the videographer the other day who informed me the client decided not to use it and is instead going to replace the scene with another totally different shot.  Nothing I or anyone did wrong, just a change of direction.

I was paid for the shoot, just totally sucks that it's not going to be used. sad    I wanted to put it on my resume.   To my knowledge, this is the first time this has happened in something I've been involved in.  Has anyone else ever had this happen?   Is there some way to prevent this from happening or is it just an unfortunate circumstance of this business?  They said they might still use it in the future, but who knows really.   I realize it's probably a lost cause, I'm just bummed.

It happens more than you know. The agencies and editors always have differences ...

Feb 19 13 06:31 am Link

Model

Rachel-Elise

Posts: 1650

Grand Rapids, Michigan, US

e m i l y wrote:

Thanks.  To be honest, I wasn't sure if I could still put it on my resume as it's not published.   I did it, but I have nothing to show for it - does it still "count"?  What do you/others think?

I had this happen to me, once. I was doing promotional materials for a line of religious Jewish women's clothing. They had me in matronly long sleeves, long skirts, and outrageous hats and hair coverings... in the end, they had to re-do the entire shoot with a different model. The reason? They said that I was "TOO SEXY."

WTF. xD

I still got paid, but they had to do it all over again with a chunkier non-blonde (apparently that was the issue), and I never got any "tears." I still count it, though, because I did do the work--they were the problem, not me. Initially, the client loved it... but I think the places she wanted to publish the ads didn't like my look or something. >.<

Credit it. Why not? If anyone asks, just explain.

Feb 20 13 08:07 am Link

Model

angel emily

Posts: 1020

Boston, Massachusetts, US

Rachel-Elise  wrote:
I had this happen to me, once. I was doing promotional materials for a line of religious Jewish women's clothing. They had me in matronly long sleeves, long skirts, and outrageous hats and hair coverings... in the end, they had to re-do the entire shoot with a different llama. The reason? They said that I was "TOO SEXY."

WTF. xD

I still got paid, but they had to do it all over again with a chunkier non-blonde (apparently that was the issue), and I never got any "tears." I still count it, though, because I did do the work--they were the problem, not me. Initially, the client loved it... but I think the places she wanted to publish the ads didn't like my look or something. >.<

Credit it. Why not? If anyone asks, just explain.

So do you ever have anyone ask about it, and do you say "I ended up being too sexy for the part I was cast in so they had to reshoot it with another llama"?

That would be embarassing for me and perhaps a turn off to say to someone I was hoping might hire me who might have doubts about me already.

Ideally, I want to present that I was right for every part I was cast for and I carried it out to perfection.  Always.

Luckily for me, the example I shared wasn't about me, it was about the client deciding on something else completely.  I'd feel really devastated if the client told me I was "too sexy" and had to reshoot with a totally different llama. 

But it sounds like they didn't really know what they wanted, either, otherwise they might not have casted a blonde bombshell. wink

Feb 20 13 08:45 am Link

Photographer

Loki Studio

Posts: 3076

Royal Oak, Michigan, US

Emily-

Companies an individuals change direction often and you have to accept that part of your role as talent is to do your best and after let the client finish the project however they wish.    It is certainly a bad idea to make requests or demands at this point.

Feb 20 13 08:53 am Link

Model

angel emily

Posts: 1020

Boston, Massachusetts, US

Loki Studio wrote:
Emily-

Companies an individuals change direction often and you have to accept that part of your role as talent is to do your best and after let the client finish the project however they wish.    It is certainly a bad idea to make requests or demands at this point.

Loki,

This was never about making requests or demands.

I understand my role and the client's wishes.   It's just an unfortunate part of the business!

Thanks.

Feb 20 13 08:55 am Link

Model

Paige Morgan

Posts: 4058

New York, New York, US

I got yanked from a local magazine cover after they decided after the fact that they would rather use a blonde for the concept.

The photographer sent a very nice note letting me know they weren't running the stuff we shot, and that it wasn't personal or because of anything I did.


It still stung though. sad

Luckily good friends and new shoes cure many ills smile

Feb 20 13 09:21 am Link

Model

Retiredmodel

Posts: 7884

Monmouth, Wales, United Kingdom

It happens. Happened to me a few times. As long as we get paid I accept it. You can always consol yourself by knowing that sometimes big actors get paid loads to be in a movie and their scenes get totally cut. Other times the actor (or model) puts in such a strong performance that they are perceived to overpower the product/movie.
A good example is during the making of 'The Thing' (2011 version) according to the 'making of' extra on the DVD, actor Jonathan Walker put in such a strong performance it was deemed his role took over the movie so they cut most of it out and his character is relegated to a minor role.

Feb 20 13 09:21 am Link

Photographer

KungPaoChic

Posts: 3148

West Palm Beach, Florida, US

ChiMo wrote:
Happens all the time.

As a side note, this is a good example of why it is totally laughable
when someone claims to "guarantee tears". It doesn't work that way.

Depends.  If a photographer is assigned an editorial it's pretty much a sure thing it's guaranteed tearsheets

Feb 23 13 07:03 pm Link

Artist/Painter

Chrisism

Posts: 9

Jacksonville, Florida, US

I think that happens in a lot of creative genres. We have been working on a Jersey design at work and it has been altered about 5 times, nothing that we did wrong the company just decided something else may look better.

Feb 23 13 09:11 pm Link

Photographer

RKD Photographic

Posts: 3265

Iserlohn, North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany

Happens all the time and not just in modelling - think you feel bad? Try acting as a profession - the number of actors who have their scenes cut from the final edit is astronomical. Even well-known actors.

My favourite is in Last of the Mohicans.
Star Trek's Chief O'Brien Colm Meaney is credited as 'Major Ambrose' in that movie and it was only after owning the DVD for a long, long time that I finally caught a half-second glimpse of him as the officer killed in the first ambush by Wes Studi. To get a credit, you have to have scripted dialogue (as opposed to unscripted dialogue or walk-on parts), so his scene was obviously cut.

Feb 24 13 10:25 am Link

Photographer

Vector One Photography

Posts: 2850

Fort Lauderdale, Florida, US

Some actor's best work end up on the cutting room floor. There's nothing you can do. I guess, technically you can include it on the resume as you did shoot for them. At least you get to keep the money, just not the glory.

Feb 24 13 10:52 am Link

Photographer

RKD Photographic

Posts: 3265

Iserlohn, North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany

Vector One Photography wrote:
Some actor's best work end up on the cutting room floor. There's nothing you can do. I guess, technically you can include it on the resume as you did shoot for them. At least you get to keep the money, just not the glory.

Exactly - I meant to add to my earlier post that nearly all actors include redacted scenes on their resumes...

Feb 24 13 10:57 am Link

Photographer

Lumatic

Posts: 13750

Brooklyn, New York, US

It's already been said, but yeah, it happens all the time for any number of reasons (rarely about you) and there's nothing really to do about it.  You can always try asking them for images to use in your portfolio or footage for your reel, but chances that they'd agree if the material hasn't been released are pretty slim. 

You could include it in your resume but I would advise against it, particularly if you don't have the product to show.  Unverifiable credits have a way of engendering distrust and damaging credibility often enough, regardless of whether or not you did the work and got paid for it.  People who do the hiring don't always check, but many do.  An exception might be where you already have a reputation and a strong body of work to show (which I think you do, no?), but at that point there's really no need to pad your resume, you know?

Feb 24 13 11:38 am Link

Photographer

DennisRoliffPhotography

Posts: 1928

Akron, Ohio, US

Airballin wrote:
I just recently worked on a project for a major brand. That was supposed to be used as an add campaign in a major magazine release.  I am quite sure they spent $250,000 or more putting it together. Just basing that number on how many people were involved. How many day's we shot and knowing what I got paid daily to participate.

Then 2 weeks ago. Just got the email. "We have decided to go in a different direction with the add campaign. Heartbreaking! So I understand and feel your pain.

But as I've been told. That's pretty much normal protocol with major brands. Doesn't have anything to do with anything our team could have done right or wrong.

Add campaign? what are they going to add to it? http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-basic/rolleyes.gif

Feb 24 13 11:45 am Link