Forums > Model Colloquy > No stats is where it's ats?

Photographer

OmnyRa

Posts: 1029

Indianapolis, Indiana, US

What gives with so many model profiles lately with no stats, incomplete stats, or no Genres listed at all? Are you sending a message about not wanting to be labled, trying to hide something, or just lazy? Maybe the newbies don't know about the model Search function that uses those fields to help us photogs narrow down our search, but I'm seeing many long-termers that way too lately.

I can't speak for anyone else, but to me, it's a bit of a red flag about confidence, self-esteem, poor attitude or disinterest.  I've had more than my share of models lately that despise the beauty industry, and seem to have joined just to tell people how much they hate it. I've asked a couple of models in messages (in a very nice way) but got ignored. Guess I struck the wrong cord. So, what gives?

Feb 20 13 03:29 pm Link

Photographer

ForeverFotos

Posts: 6644

Indianapolis, Indiana, US

I tend to prefer models who weigh 0 pounds. They are great for those airborne shots where it looks like the model is flying, because every light wind gust tends to put them in a new airy pose.

Feb 20 13 03:39 pm Link

Model

angel emily

Posts: 1020

Boston, Massachusetts, US

It always breaks my heart when I see threads like this. 

I mean, these "other" models must be absolutely amazing, in all other aspects.  In the real world, people would just move on.  But here?  These models... wow, they must be just perfect -- if only they would fill in their stats....

....fill in their genres......

.....remember to manicure their nails.....

......post current photos....

.......check their messages....

....respond.....

.....login once a year.....


There are so many - so many - models here who are serious about modeling and networking on this site, is it really worth the effort to give attention to the ones who put in a fraction of the effort?

Feb 20 13 05:16 pm Link

Photographer

Grayscale Photo

Posts: 111

Columbus, Ohio, US

I'm not sure why the exact dimensions matter unless the photographer or the art director is supplying the wardrobe. I can tell general size and shape from the portfolio.

Feb 20 13 05:20 pm Link

Model

Kozmina

Posts: 6534

Colorado Springs, Colorado, US

e m i l y wrote:
It always breaks my heart when I see threads like this. 

I mean, these "other" models must be absolutely amazing, in all other aspects.  In the real world, people would just move on.  But here?  These models... wow, they must be just perfect -- if only they would fill in their stats....

....fill in their genres......

.....remember to manicure their nails.....

......post current photos....

.......check their messages....

....respond.....

.....login once a year.....


There are so many - so many - models here who are serious about modeling and networking on this site, is it really worth the effort to give attention to the ones who put in a fraction of the effort?

+1

Feb 20 13 05:24 pm Link

Model

MelissaAnn

Posts: 3955

Seattle, Washington, US

Many models who don't have fashion stats would rather be judged on their look.  Others don't want photographers searching for them based on stats. 

It doesn't matter what "message" it sends to photographers, models have their own personal reasons for not including stats (or other info), and it's really nobodies business but their own.  Photographers who don't like it can move on.  Those that need exact measurements for a specific project should be hiring agency models, or meeting with the model in advance to have them properly measured.  Photographers that choose to hire MM models for important projects where specific measurements are required, do so at their own risk, and are personally responsible for the outcome of their own decisions.

For the newbie model's who are just ignorant, and aren't aware that they could potentially be losing out on certain types of work because they don't list stats- if they are serious about modeling, they will find out for themselves, and make their own decision based on what's best for them.

Feb 20 13 05:27 pm Link

Photographer

OmnyRa

Posts: 1029

Indianapolis, Indiana, US

Grayscale Photo wrote:
I'm not sure why the exact dimensions matter unless the photographer or the art director is supplying the wardrobe. I can tell general size and shape from the portfolio.

I am supplyin wardrobe more in more, since I can't always count on models to show up with washed wardrobe.  But that's another thread...

I tried estimating based on portfolio pics a few of times on Mayhem, but I learned a lesson about Liquify and how pics from 2 years ago classifies as "recent pics" to some models here.

I use stats more for model compatibility for calendar shoots and projects with more than one model.

Feb 20 13 05:31 pm Link

Model

Paige Morgan

Posts: 4058

New York, New York, US

The site did have issues with erasing stats about 6 months to a year ago, at which point I had them clearly listed in my text.


Since that point, the issue seems to have been fixed, and I keep them complete/correct in my sidebar.

They are also clearly marked on my website.

Feb 20 13 05:34 pm Link

Photographer

OmnyRa

Posts: 1029

Indianapolis, Indiana, US

e m i l y wrote:
It always breaks my heart when I see threads like this. 

I mean, these "other" models must be absolutely amazing, in all other aspects.  In the real world, people would just move on.  But here?  These models... wow, they must be just perfect -- if only they would fill in their stats....

....fill in their genres......

.....remember to manicure their nails.....

......post current photos....

.......check their messages....

....respond.....

.....login once a year.....


There are so many - so many - models here who are serious about modeling and networking on this site, is it really worth the effort to give attention to the ones who put in a fraction of the effort?

I feel it helps if some of these things are voiced because you never know who just didn't know, or didn't think it mattered, and who may have been helped by just witnessing the conversation.  I've re-written my profile and re-organized my portfolio many times based on things I've learned in forums, from models and photographers, that I was clueless to before. It seems to have helped improve my work, which I can only assume is true by the Yesses greatly outnumbering the Nos lately.  Sure, moving on is easier, but every now and then, saying something helps out a few people. :^)

Feb 20 13 05:41 pm Link

Photographer

AJ_In_Atlanta

Posts: 12825

Atlanta, Georgia, US

There are models with incomplete stats?  Hard to notice because they don't show in my searches and with so many that do have complete profiles why even worry about it.

Feb 20 13 05:43 pm Link

Photographer

Grayscale Photo

Posts: 111

Columbus, Ohio, US

OmnyRa wrote:
I tried estimating based on portfolio pics a few of times on Mayhem, but I learned a lesson about Liquify and how pics from 2 years ago classifies as "recent pics" to some models here.

What makes you think a model who isn't honest about her portfolio being an accurate representation of her present self would have honest stats?

Feb 20 13 05:46 pm Link

Model

The Red Menace

Posts: 26

Sydney, New South Wales, Australia

I personally leave out age because my port is recent and I don't think it's relevant.

I leave out weight because I have accurate measurements and I don't know how much I weight and don't care to know- it's not a very good reflection of body mass.

I also don't have aspirations to fashion of making a career out of modeling (very much a 'hobby' model) so I don't feel the need to put those particular stats on.

As to others who don't at all.. who knows. Free will.

Feb 20 13 05:51 pm Link

Model

MelissaAnn

Posts: 3955

Seattle, Washington, US

OmnyRa wrote:
I am supplyin wardrobe more in more, since I can't always count on models to show up with washed wardrobe.  But that's another thread...

If you're hiring models that you can't rely on to bring clean clothing to a shoot, you need to get a whole lot better at your screening process.  If you're doing TF with these type of models, you really can't complain.  Don't TF with MM models if you're providing wardrobe that will be critical to the success of the shoot.  If you do, and it doesn't work out, it's your own fault.  Hire a reliable model that will bring clean clothing, or measure the TF model in advance if you are to be providing the outfits. 

Take responsibility for your own success rather than blaming it on the "models."

Feb 20 13 05:53 pm Link

Photographer

OmnyRa

Posts: 1029

Indianapolis, Indiana, US

MelissaAnn  wrote:

If you're hiring models that you can't rely on to bring clean clothing to a shoot, you need to get a whole lot better at your screening process.  If you're doing TF with these type of models, you really can't complain.  Don't TF with MM models if you're providing wardrobe that will be critical to the success of the shoot.  If you do, and it doesn't work out, it's your own fault.  Hire a reliable model that will bring clean clothing, or measure the TF model in advance if you are to be providing the outfits. 

Take responsibility for your own success rather than blaming it on the "models."

I can't recall looking at a model's port and thinking, "I wonder if she's gonna bring dirty lingerie to the shoot?"  And I don't think it's my place to tell someone to be sure they've got clean underwear on before they leave the house. That's their mother's job. :^)  I don't feel I'm blaming.  These are things you can't always know beforehand, and don't know it's an issue until you encounter it. We live, we learn.

"Good judgment comes from experience.  But a lot of experience comes from bad judgment." -Will Rogers

Feb 20 13 06:08 pm Link

Photographer

OmnyRa

Posts: 1029

Indianapolis, Indiana, US

thanks for the input folks...

Feb 20 13 06:12 pm Link

Model

STEPHANIE COMMERCIAL

Posts: 120

Tampa, Florida, US

It seems like every model that I see putting no stats are already established and successful and don't want to be contacted.

Feb 20 13 06:17 pm Link

Model

MelissaAnn

Posts: 3955

Seattle, Washington, US

OmnyRa wrote:
I can't recall looking at a model's port and thinking, "I wonder if she's gonna bring dirty lingerie to the shoot?"  And I don't think it's my place to tell someone to be sure they've got clean underwear on before they leave the house. That's their mother's job. :^)  I don't feel I'm blaming.  These are things you can't always know beforehand, and don't know it's an issue until you encounter it. We live, we learn.

"Good judgment comes from experience.  But a lot of experience comes from bad judgment." -Will Rogers

Go ahead and continue not taking any responsibility for your own actions, and things will never change for you.  You can't change others, but you can change how you go about choosing/screening for models, checking references, communicating, etc. 

It's actually *very* easy to tell the caliber of model you're dealing with when looking at profiles/ports, and if you don't know how, you should talk to someone who does.  Until then, you should take responsibility for your own lack of knowledge and check references.  Good models bring clean clothes to shoots, and it's up to *you* to find good models.

Feb 20 13 06:26 pm Link

Model

angel emily

Posts: 1020

Boston, Massachusetts, US

OmnyRa wrote:
I feel it helps if some of these things are voiced because you never know who just didn't know, or didn't think it mattered, and who may have been helped by just witnessing the conversation.  I've re-written my profile and re-organized my portfolio many times based on things I've learned in forums, from models and photographers, that I was clueless to before. It seems to have helped improve my work, which I can only assume is true by the Yesses greatly outnumbering the Nos lately.  Sure, moving on is easier, but every now and then, saying something helps out a few people. :^)

I understand -- if only everyone read the forums! smile

Feb 20 13 06:30 pm Link

Photographer

IMAGINERIES

Posts: 692

New York, New York, US

A picture is worth a thounsand words...For the type of pictures I take...
It does not matter, but I understand if clothing is part of the shot and has to be fitted.

Feb 20 13 08:05 pm Link

Model

Autumn Rose Brightly

Posts: 1097

Crowley, Texas, US

e m i l y wrote:

I understand -- if only everyone read the forums! smile

Just want to say I've learned sooooooooo much from my interactions on the forums and from Emily in particular

Feb 20 13 09:24 pm Link

guide forum

Photographer

Rays Fine Art

Posts: 6308

New York, New York, US

Everything a model does or does not do is her own damn business including whether or not it impacts on her hireability---ultimately.  But it does seem to me that by joining a group such as MM she makes her stats, interests and boundaries the business of anyone that might be interested in working with her.

And, too, a good many models mistakenly think stats don't matter other than for fashion, etc. where wardrobe will be provided.  It ain't necessarily so!  For example, I have a very small home studio with a steam pipe running right  through the middle of it, 6 feet above the floor.  I have shot models as tall as 6'2" but, man, it ain't easy.

So, ladies & gents, please let us know your sizes and your interests, as accurately as possible.  It will make things a whole lot easier for everyone.

And if you're female under 5'6", you're my kinda gal!

Feb 21 13 08:17 am Link

Photographer

HO Photo

Posts: 516

Los Angeles, California, US

I won't shoot with any model under 117 years of age.

Feb 22 13 02:39 pm Link

Photographer

Top Gun Digital

Posts: 1273

Las Vegas, Nevada, US

OmnyRa wrote:
What gives with so many model profiles lately with no stats, incomplete stats, or no Genres listed at all? Are you sending a message about not wanting to be labled, trying to hide something, or just lazy? Maybe the newbies don't know about the model Search function that uses those fields to help us photogs narrow down our search, but I'm seeing many long-termers that way too lately.

I can't speak for anyone else, but to me, it's a bit of a red flag about confidence, self-esteem, poor attitude or disinterest.  I've had more than my share of models lately that despise the beauty industry, and seem to have joined just to tell people how much they hate it. I've asked a couple of models in messages (in a very nice way) but got ignored. Guess I struck the wrong cord. So, what gives?

Look at the bright side, if a model is not professional enough to complete her profile what can expect from her if you book a shoot.  Stick with the models that are true professionals and act accordingly.

Feb 22 13 02:46 pm Link

Photographer

Marin Photography NYC

Posts: 7239

New York, New York, US

I think photographers should post stats too! This way if the llama doesn't like old farts she can hire someone young unlike me.  If the photographer has a big pop belly, like me, she will know and work with someone else too!...This way those of us who don't want to deal with that sort of immaturity are spared. What do you think??...hahaha

Feb 22 13 02:57 pm Link

Model

V Laroche

Posts: 2746

New Orleans, Louisiana, US

Haseeb Omar Photo wrote:
I won't shoot with any model under 117 years of age.

Oh, maybe in five years you and I could shoot. Except for that I'm not shooting with anyone new just now. That's why I'm 112 and 999 lbs. It's a little heavy on my 14-inch frame, but I figure those photographers with whom I have a positive previous working relationship can overlook a little weight gain to work with me again.

Feb 22 13 07:48 pm Link

Photographer

toesup

Posts: 1050

Templeton, California, US

Haseeb Omar Photo wrote:
I won't shoot with any model under 117 years of age.

Dunno.. some of these 115 year old's would blow yer socks off..

From what I've seen they look pretty good for their age...

Feb 22 13 08:02 pm Link

Photographer

toesup

Posts: 1050

Templeton, California, US

V Laroche wrote:
Oh, maybe in five years you and I could shoot. Except for that I'm not shooting with anyone new just now. That's why I'm 112 and 999 lbs. It's a little heavy on my 14-inch frame, but I figure those photographers with whom I have a positive previous working relationship can overlook a little weight gain to work with me again.

112 years old...

999lbs...

Hell yeah!, I'd love to work with you!

Edit: AND a midget!... WOW!

Feb 22 13 08:04 pm Link

Model

V Laroche

Posts: 2746

New Orleans, Louisiana, US

toesup wrote:

112 years old...

999lbs...

Hell yeah!, I'd love to work with you!

Edit: AND a midget!... WOW!

I prefer "tiny person," thanks.

Feb 22 13 08:18 pm Link

Photographer

Camerosity

Posts: 5316

Saint Louis, Missouri, US

OmnyRa wrote:
"Good judgment comes from experience.  But a lot of experience comes from bad judgment." -Will Rogers

Or, to put it another way, "Experience is something that's happening to you that you wish were happening to someone else instead." - Anon.

Feb 22 13 08:34 pm Link

Photographer

Camerosity

Posts: 5316

Saint Louis, Missouri, US

toesup wrote:
112 years old...

999lbs...

Hell yeah!, I'd love to work with you!

Edit: AND a midget!... WOW!

V Laroche wrote:
I prefer "tiny person," thanks.

I believe the current politically correct terminology is vertically challenged person.

Unless you're in Ireland, in which case we would be talking about Leprechauns.

Being part Irish, I can tell you that I don't believe in the little people... but they are there.

Feb 22 13 08:36 pm Link

Photographer

Dimitrio

Posts: 1000

Nassau, New Providence, Bahamas

to me no stats mean, no confidence and possibly a flake.

Really and truly the website developers should be to blame since a
profile should not be able to be created if specific data is missing, and yes
the stats are very important to the search options.

Feb 22 13 11:29 pm Link

Model

Rachel-Elise

Posts: 1650

Grand Rapids, Michigan, US

Paige Morgan wrote:
The site did have issues with erasing stats about 6 months to a year ago, at which point I had them clearly listed in my text.


Since that point, the issue seems to have been fixed, and I keep them complete/correct in my sidebar.

They are also clearly marked on my website.

Me too... exactly.

Someone (maybe the OP) mentioned photos from 2 years ago being used as "recent pics," but it begs the question--if it's a great photo, and the model genuinely does look EXACTLY the same, why not keep it up? I look exactly the same as my red bikini photos, which happen to have been taken in 2011... so why not keep them up? I'd be doing others and myself a disservice by taking them down.

Feb 23 13 04:22 am Link