Forums > General Industry > Is no contact # enough reason to cancel?

Model

thattoriegirl

Posts: 47

Tampa, Florida, US

Edit: thanks everyone! Glad to know people think I made the right choice smile

After some mm messages back and forth I scheduled a TF* shoot (cast by myself) with a photographer for tomorrow afternoon. When finally deciding on a location and time I asked the photographer for the location address (as it was his choice) and a contact number- to which he replied his wife does not like him to give out his number. I found this irritating for a number of reasons:
-I think it's unprofessional to not be willing to give your contact information out (perhaps get a work #)
-It comes off sketchy
-Don't flatter yourself. I'm a professional and have ZERO interest in you

I reluctantly still confirmed but made a point of saying his wife should fear not, it was simply in case I got lost or an emergency, he did not respond. After telling my husband the story he told me he was not comfortable with me driving an hour away to the woods to meet with a photographer who's real name I didn't know nor who was willing to provide a contact number, especially when it was my casting call for a TF shoot. So I politely wrote him a messaging explaining the situation as one for my safety and hoped he'd understand as I do not mean to be a 'flake'.

Now I'll admit; I do watch A LOT of criminal minds, so I'm probably more paranoid than the average person. But am I in the wrong for calling the shoot off? Does anyone else find this strange & extremely unprofessional?

Mar 20 13 09:44 pm Link

Photographer

Cherrystone

Posts: 36719

Columbus, Ohio, US

thattoriegirl wrote:
After some mm messages back and forth I scheduled a TF* shoot (cast by myself) with a photographer for tomorrow afternoon. When finally deciding on a location and time I asked the photographer for the location address (as it was his choice) and a contact number- to which he replied his wife does not like him to give out his number. I found this irritating for a number of reasons:
-I think it's unprofessional to not be willing to give your contact information out (perhaps get a work #)
-It comes off sketchy
-Don't flatter yourself. I'm a professional and have ZERO interest in you

I reluctantly still confirmed but made a point of saying his wife should fear not, it was simply in case I got lost or an emergency, he did not respond. After telling my husband the story he told me he was not comfortable with me driving an hour away to the woods to meet with a photographer who's real name I didn't know nor who was willing to provide a contact number, especially when it was my casting call for a TF shoot. So I politely wrote him a messaging explaining the situation as one for my safety and hoped he'd understand as I do not mean to be a 'flake'.

Now I'll admit; I do watch A LOT of criminal minds, so I'm probably more paranoid than the average person. But am I in the wrong for calling the shoot off? Does anyone else find this strange & extremely unprofessional?

The word professional on MM is a funny thing. So is thinking about Criminal Minds.

That said, I don't let models in here without having a cell number, nor a real name for a myriad of reasons. And I get one before I'll even book, and the other no later than booking time. I use both to vett folks out better.

It's not likely his wife doesn't like it, it's more likely she doesn't even know about his pastime.....assuming he really has a wife.

Mar 20 13 09:50 pm Link

Photographer

Revenge Photography

Posts: 1832

Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

No contact number, no shoot.

Perfectly reasonable.

In fact proceeding to the shoot under the circumstances you detailed would be silly.

Mar 20 13 09:50 pm Link

Photographer

ForeverFotos

Posts: 6644

Indianapolis, Indiana, US

OP, I agree with you. If you are getting a bad feeling, you should probably cancel the shoot. I would never proceed to a point in shoot planning where I would not have an opportunity to communicate any last minute changes to the model(s). That means a cell phone number.....period.

Mar 20 13 09:51 pm Link

Model

JoJo

Posts: 25558

Clearwater, Florida, US

thattoriegirl wrote:
....to which he replied his wife does not like him to give out his number.....

Large red flag.

The only point in his favour here is that it wasn't his dead grandmother that didn't want him to give out his number.

Mar 20 13 09:54 pm Link

Photographer

GER Photography

Posts: 7956

Imperial, California, US

I will not even think about setting up a shoot without a phone number ever again. If they won't talk to you on the phone, what makes you think they'll show up for a shoot.

Mar 20 13 09:57 pm Link

Model

Danielle Hieronimi

Posts: 238

Chicago, Illinois, US

No real name, no cell phone number, no email, no specific address to shoot.
If one of these is missing, don't work with that photographer.
If they can't take the time to detail a location or studio in the message; if they can't end their correspondence with:

John Doe
(XXX) XXX-XXXX
johndoe@whatever.com

Then, they are not worth the trouble.

Mar 20 13 10:01 pm Link

Photographer

Bare Essential Photos

Posts: 3409

Upland, California, US

Danielle Hieronimi wrote:
No real name, no cell phone number, no email, no specific address to shoot.
If one of these is missing, don't work with that photographer.
If they can't take the time to detail a location or studio in the message; if they can't end their correspondence with:

John Doe
(XXX) XXX-XXXX
johndoe@whatever.com

Then, they are not worth the trouble.

+1,000

Yes, I agree : )

Mar 20 13 10:03 pm Link

Photographer

NC Art Photos

Posts: 568

Raleigh, North Carolina, US

thattoriegirl wrote:
After some mm messages back and forth I scheduled a TF* shoot (cast by myself) with a photographer for tomorrow afternoon. When finally deciding on a location and time I asked the photographer for the location address (as it was his choice) and a contact number- to which he replied his wife does not like him to give out his number. I found this irritating for a number of reasons:
-I think it's unprofessional to not be willing to give your contact information out (perhaps get a work #)
-It comes off sketchy
-Don't flatter yourself. I'm a professional and have ZERO interest in you

I reluctantly still confirmed but made a point of saying his wife should fear not, it was simply in case I got lost or an emergency, he did not respond. After telling my husband the story he told me he was not comfortable with me driving an hour away to the woods to meet with a photographer who's real name I didn't know nor who was willing to provide a contact number, especially when it was my casting call for a TF shoot. So I politely wrote him a messaging explaining the situation as one for my safety and hoped he'd understand as I do not mean to be a 'flake'.

Now I'll admit; I do watch A LOT of criminal minds, so I'm probably more paranoid than the average person. But am I in the wrong for calling the shoot off? Does anyone else find this strange & extremely unprofessional?

No number from a model or a photographer is unprofessional and is a deal killer for me.

Mar 20 13 10:03 pm Link

Photographer

Swank Photography

Posts: 19015

Key West, Florida, US

thattoriegirl wrote:
After some mm messages back and forth I scheduled a TF* shoot (cast by myself) with a photographer for tomorrow afternoon. When finally deciding on a location and time I asked the photographer for the location address (as it was his choice) and a contact number- to which he replied his wife does not like him to give out his number. I found this irritating for a number of reasons:
-I think it's unprofessional to not be willing to give your contact information out (perhaps get a work #)
-It comes off sketchy
-Don't flatter yourself. I'm a professional and have ZERO interest in you

I reluctantly still confirmed but made a point of saying his wife should fear not, it was simply in case I got lost or an emergency, he did not respond. After telling my husband the story he told me he was not comfortable with me driving an hour away to the woods to meet with a photographer who's real name I didn't know nor who was willing to provide a contact number, especially when it was my casting call for a TF shoot. So I politely wrote him a messaging explaining the situation as one for my safety and hoped he'd understand as I do not mean to be a 'flake'.

Now I'll admit; I do watch A LOT of criminal minds, so I'm probably more paranoid than the average person. But am I in the wrong for calling the shoot off? Does anyone else find this strange & extremely unprofessional?

In reading this, my question is why is his wife being such a needy twat and making this demand? And why is he cow tipping to her demand?

This is the same crap many photographers complain about some models who allow their husbands/boyfriends to run the show when it comes to them modeling, etc.

IMHO you were right in calling this shoot off.

Personally, I expect an exchange of phone numbers everytime I schedule a shoot with soomeone.

If they do not give me their number then I dont shoot. Simple as that.

If you expect to be treated as a professional, then by god act like a professional or step aside and let someone else take your place.

Mar 20 13 10:03 pm Link

Photographer

Marin Photography NYC

Posts: 7249

New York, New York, US

No phone number, no real name, off site location, no deal. It was smart to call it off, the wife excuse is lame.

Mar 20 13 10:05 pm Link

Model

thattoriegirl

Posts: 47

Tampa, Florida, US

Swank Photography wrote:

In reading this, my question is why is his wife being such a needy twat and making this demand? And why is he cow tipping to her demand?

This is the same crap many photographers complain about some models who allow their husbands/boyfriends to run the show when it comes to them modeling, etc.

IMHO you were right in calling this shoot off.

Personally, I expect an exchange of phone numbers everytime I schedule a shoot with soomeone.

If they do not give me their number then I dont shoot. Simple as that.

If you expect to be treated as a professional, then by god act like a professional or step aside and let someone else take your place.

I love anyone that uses the word twat

Mar 20 13 10:15 pm Link

Model

DaniNikole

Posts: 129

Sacramento, California, US

I would never shoot with someone I didn't know their name or any sort of contact information. What if you simply get lost and need to call them about the location? Lol most locations you can't just drive up to and see the person instantly. Seems very strange to me

Mar 20 13 10:15 pm Link

Model

thattoriegirl

Posts: 47

Tampa, Florida, US

Thanks everyone. I'm glad to see I made the right choice. Not only is it an issue of safety for me, but to be honest it's so unprofessional that it irritates me enough to not want to work with him for reason of making a point alone.

Mar 20 13 10:17 pm Link

Photographer

Gogar

Posts: 135

Göteborg, Västra Götaland, Sweden

Yup, it is reason enough to cancel.
Real name and contact # is a must both ways in my world.
Things might happen at the last minute for whatever reason.
The whole thing sounds sketchy and get my spidey sense tingling.

Mar 20 13 10:28 pm Link

Photographer

Swank Photography

Posts: 19015

Key West, Florida, US

thattoriegirl wrote:

I love anyone that uses the word twat

Mar 20 13 10:31 pm Link

Photographer

Jerry Nemeth

Posts: 28013

Dearborn, Michigan, US

I always exchange cellphone numbers with llamas.

Mar 20 13 10:38 pm Link

Photographer

Ruben Sanchez

Posts: 3505

San Antonio, Texas, US

thattoriegirl wrote:
to which he replied his wife does not like him to give out his number. I found this irritating for a number of reasons:

His wife doesn't like him to give out his number, so what does she think he is doing for hours at a time away from home?   

Starting to smell like bull s**t.  He's definately not a professional.  You did the right thing.  I'm sure he would also have cancelled if you had told him you were going to take your husband with you as an escort.  He wanted you there alone, for a reason.  Like a professional photographer can't take photos with other people around him?

Mar 20 13 10:55 pm Link

Photographer

JOEL McDONALD

Posts: 608

Portland, Oregon, US

thattoriegirl wrote:
After some mm messages back and forth I scheduled a TF* shoot (cast by myself) with a photographer for tomorrow afternoon. When finally deciding on a location and time I asked the photographer for the location address (as it was his choice) and a contact number- to which he replied his wife does not like him to give out his number. I found this irritating for a number of reasons:
-I think it's unprofessional to not be willing to give your contact information out (perhaps get a work #)
-It comes off sketchy
-Don't flatter yourself. I'm a professional and have ZERO interest in you

I reluctantly still confirmed but made a point of saying his wife should fear not, it was simply in case I got lost or an emergency, he did not respond. After telling my husband the story he told me he was not comfortable with me driving an hour away to the woods to meet with a photographer who's real name I didn't know nor who was willing to provide a contact number, especially when it was my casting call for a TF shoot. So I politely wrote him a messaging explaining the situation as one for my safety and hoped he'd understand as I do not mean to be a 'flake'.

Now I'll admit; I do watch A LOT of criminal minds, so I'm probably more paranoid than the average person. But am I in the wrong for calling the shoot off? Does anyone else find this strange & extremely unprofessional?

Irritating? That's a WTF moment. No contact number no shoot!!! If his mommy, sorry "wife" doesn't "allow" him to give his cell number then he's in the wrong business or has the wrong wife.

It all sounds too skeezy.

I wouldn't go. Just my opinion.

Mar 20 13 10:56 pm Link

Photographer

EdwardKristopher

Posts: 3377

Tempe, Arizona, US

thattoriegirl wrote:
After some mm messages back and forth I scheduled a TF* shoot (cast by myself) with a photographer for tomorrow afternoon. When finally deciding on a location and time I asked the photographer for the location address (as it was his choice) and a contact number- to which he replied his wife does not like him to give out his number. I found this irritating for a number of reasons:
-I think it's unprofessional to not be willing to give your contact information out (perhaps get a work #)
-It comes off sketchy
-Don't flatter yourself. I'm a professional and have ZERO interest in you

I reluctantly still confirmed but made a point of saying his wife should fear not, it was simply in case I got lost or an emergency, he did not respond. After telling my husband the story he told me he was not comfortable with me driving an hour away to the woods to meet with a photographer who's real name I didn't know nor who was willing to provide a contact number, especially when it was my casting call for a TF shoot. So I politely wrote him a messaging explaining the situation as one for my safety and hoped he'd understand as I do not mean to be a 'flake'.

Now I'll admit; I do watch A LOT of criminal minds, so I'm probably more paranoid than the average person. But am I in the wrong for calling the shoot off? Does anyone else find this strange & extremely unprofessional?

Good that your husband pushed the issue!  Without a number, at least, you should NEVER meet up!  I understand the whole safety issue more than the irritation.  If I don't get a confirmation through a contact number I cancel the shoot as well.  I/ve canceled two shoots just today!  Keep safe and have funn!

Kindest regards,
Edward

Mar 20 13 11:02 pm Link

Photographer

JOEL McDONALD

Posts: 608

Portland, Oregon, US

Danielle Hieronimi wrote:
No real name, no cell phone number, no email, no specific address to shoot.
If one of these is missing, don't work with that photographer.
If they can't take the time to detail a location or studio in the message; if they can't end their correspondence with:

John Doe
(XXX) XXX-XXXX
johndoe@whatever.com

Then, they are not worth the trouble.

smart response! I agree.

Mar 20 13 11:03 pm Link

Photographer

ontherocks

Posts: 22621

Salem, Oregon, US

criminal minds isn't real? is it? that show freaks me out.

if somebody's being weird without a good explanation that's a bad sign. maybe he doesn't want his wife to know about his hobby? regardless, the photographer needs to provide transparency so that the model feels safe working with him.

when a model contacts me i give her my cell# and my business websites so they can check me out. and i ask for her cell# in case of emergency and for texting about the shoot or "i'm on winter but i don't see your studio"

better safe than sorry. i think you did the right thing.

Mar 20 13 11:12 pm Link

Model

V for Victory Modeling

Posts: 436

Roseville, California, US

Bad signs...I suppose you could check references, but no name and no number is suspicious. I had a photographer flake and didn't know what happened for several days because of no name or number. We discussed a day by message, never hear from him and from then on out he wouldn't give definite shoot info so I moved on.

With smart phones these days, it's easy enough to get a free number from an app or free texting service to use.

Mar 20 13 11:25 pm Link

Photographer

Patrick Walberg

Posts: 42754

Salinas, California, US

thattoriegirl wrote:
Thanks everyone. I'm glad to see I made the right choice. Not only is it an issue of safety for me, but to be honest it's so unprofessional that it irritates me enough to not want to work with him for reason of making a point alone.

I just came upon this thread.  You did the right thing by canceling.  I will not schedule a shoot without having spoken on the phone.   PERIOD! 

I'm fine with communicating via text, email or messages on this website, but that only works for making initial contact, and solidifying plans ... but I'm old school about confirming things by talking on the phone.  In some cases, I'll even meet the model in advance in many cases.  The way I communicate, I rarely have any problems from models flaking or uninvited guests (sometimes call "escorts!")

Before the popularity of the Internet, texting, and emailing each other back and forth, we had fewer choices for communication with each other.  That consisted of calling someone on the phone, writing a letter, or meeting with someone in person.  The FAX machine was a big deal!  lol  Oh I love the new technology, but it doesn't replace personal interaction that talking on a phone or in person provides.

Mar 21 13 12:28 am Link

Photographer

1472

Posts: 1059

Pembroke Pines, Florida, US

yuuup lol i wouldnt even bother imo how are you going to confirm .. smh via mm nahhh son

Mar 21 13 12:39 am Link

Photographer

Darren Brade

Posts: 2834

London, England, United Kingdom

This is the 21st friggin century where pay as you go phones are 10 a penny, voice divert numbers are free and more hotmail accounts to shake a monopod at.

No number, no shoot.

Mar 21 13 02:12 am Link

Photographer

Natural Means

Posts: 596

Sydney, New South Wales, Australia

thattoriegirl wrote:
Edit: thanks everyone! Glad to know people think I made the right choice smile

After some mm messages back and forth I scheduled a TF* shoot (cast by myself) with a photographer for tomorrow afternoon. When finally deciding on a location and time I asked the photographer for the location address (as it was his choice) and a contact number- to which he replied his wife does not like him to give out his number. I found this irritating for a number of reasons:
-I think it's unprofessional to not be willing to give your contact information out (perhaps get a work #)
-It comes off sketchy
-Don't flatter yourself. I'm a professional and have ZERO interest in you

I reluctantly still confirmed but made a point of saying his wife should fear not, it was simply in case I got lost or an emergency, he did not respond. After telling my husband the story he told me he was not comfortable with me driving an hour away to the woods to meet with a photographer who's real name I didn't know nor who was willing to provide a contact number, especially when it was my casting call for a TF shoot. So I politely wrote him a messaging explaining the situation as one for my safety and hoped he'd understand as I do not mean to be a 'flake'.

Now I'll admit; I do watch A LOT of criminal minds, so I'm probably more paranoid than the average person. But am I in the wrong for calling the shoot off? Does anyone else find this strange & extremely unprofessional?

Completely reasonable to cancel. If the guy doesn't have the brains to atleast get himself another wife or a second phone...

Incidentally how did his references stack up?

Mar 21 13 02:35 am Link

Photographer

RKD Photographic

Posts: 3265

Iserlohn, North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany

No number = no shoot.

Likewise with real name and an address of some kind.

OP you did the right thing.

Mar 21 13 02:37 am Link

Model

Gitte

Posts: 995

Newton, Massachusetts, US

I just can't help notice- and find funny- that his actions were based on his wife's opinion (not to give out his number, however odd that may be), and your actions were based on your husband's (he didn't want you to go w/o said number);-)

Mar 22 13 01:22 pm Link

Photographer

Patrick Walberg

Posts: 42754

Salinas, California, US

Gitte wrote:
I just can't help notice- and find funny- that his actions were based on his wife's opinion (not to give out his number, however odd that may be), and your actions were based on your husband's (he didn't want you to go w/o said number);-)

Actually we don't know that the so called "photographer" is writing the truth to her in these messages.  So many people can write whatever lies they want online and it's nothing more than spam.  My guess is that the "photographer" was making lame excuses.  Perhaps his wife doesn't know he shoots pictures?  Or maybe he had some other intentions?  Who knows?  However to say that the OP based her actions on her husbands opinion is not fully true either.  If she were to do that, then she'd never have written this post asking for "our opinions" in the first place. 

All I know is that it's piss poor communication!  What the hell did people do before the Internet?  We talked on the phone!  Why is that so hard to do?  I require a short phone conversation before I will even consider booking a shoot with that model!  Not to be mean, but to get a feel for their personality which is important to me in working with people.  I've also conducted casting calls at public venues so that I could see the potential models before booking.  That is how we used to do in in the ancient days.   "No contact" means "No job!"

I'll tell you what .. I have never been hired by a couple to shoot their wedding without a proper exchange of information AND meeting in person!  I don't mean to be snippity ... it's just that I am hardcore about communication.   wink

Mar 22 13 01:36 pm Link

Photographer

SitronStudio

Posts: 1064

Venice, Florida, US

I gave my cell # to a model, and they cancelled. They said it was an out of state area code and that seemed shady. I guess they've never heard of people moving and keeping the same cell #.

Mar 22 13 03:23 pm Link

Photographer

Dark Shadows

Posts: 2269

Miami, Florida, US

Yeah, it's a good reason to cancel. That wife excuse also makes him sound like he's totally whipped.

Mar 22 13 03:26 pm Link

Model

Lana Belle

Posts: 49

Washington, District of Columbia, US

You made the right decision. I had a shoot like that before a photographer didn't provide his cell phone number (eventhough I provided mine). Throughout the correspondence he provided the address of the hotel but no freaking cell phone number. What if I got got lost to the hotel and plus since it was at a hotel needed te room number. What if he didn't show up?

Mar 22 13 03:36 pm Link

Model

NicoleNudes

Posts: 3861

Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Yes. I always give out my phone number after a shoot has been scheduled. ALWAYS.

Normally people never need it, but it's just in case something does happen to come up.

I would have cancelled as well.

Mar 22 13 03:40 pm Link

Photographer

Looknsee Photography

Posts: 21687

Portland, Oregon, US

RKD Photographic wrote:
No number = no shoot.

Likewise with real name and an address of some kind.

OP you did the right thing.

Not me.

I do a very good job at filtering out unreliable models -- I've had very, very few flakes.  Nearly all of my sessions are here in my home, and there's always something I can be doing about the house.

If a model is 15 minutes late -- heck, no problem, parking can be a challenge.

If a model is more than 15 minutes late, I start some other project.  I tend to leave the lights up, because there's always someone around who want to be in front of my camera -- I photograph the kids of lots of friends.

http://www.looknseephoto.com/california/ashley1.jpg

But I don't like treating my models like children.  I don't need to check up on them.  I don't need "I'm leaving now" messages.  I don't need to confirm the day before.  A reliable adult will show, and that's what I expect.

Mar 22 13 03:42 pm Link

Photographer

Art of the nude

Posts: 11892

Olivet, Michigan, US

Danielle Hieronimi wrote:
No real name, no cell phone number, no email, no specific address to shoot.
If one of these is missing, don't work with that photographer.
If they can't take the time to detail a location or studio in the message; if they can't end their correspondence with:

John Doe
(XXX) XXX-XXXX
johndoe@whatever.com

Then, they are not worth the trouble.

It's remarkable though, how often you see models saying that they won't give out phone numbers to photographers.

Mar 22 13 03:42 pm Link

Model

NicoleNudes

Posts: 3861

Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Art of the nude wrote:

It's remarkable though, how often you see models saying that they won't give out phone numbers to photographers.

I only have a problem giving out my phone number before a set date to shoot is actually scheduled because I've done that before and had people call just to talk to me and then we never end up shooting. Waste of my time.

Mar 22 13 03:46 pm Link

Photographer

Art of the nude

Posts: 11892

Olivet, Michigan, US

Art of the nude wrote:
It's remarkable though, how often you see models saying that they won't give out phone numbers to photographers.

NicoleNudes wrote:
I only have a problem giving out my phone number before a set date to shoot is actually scheduled because I've done that before and had people call just to talk to me and then we never end up shooting. Waste of my time.

I understand the concerns, but if one party won't schedule without a phone number, and the other won't give out a phone number without a firm scheduling . . . .

Mar 22 13 03:56 pm Link

Photographer

Moonlight Studio

Posts: 41

Hot Springs, Arkansas, US

Wow, I would never deal with that type then. I have my numbers listed on my website and such. As well if I book a model I expect a contact number as well for them to have mine.

Puts up flags if not and I am not a flag reader.

Mar 22 13 04:09 pm Link

Photographer

Southern NE Photography

Posts: 13

Boston, Massachusetts, US

Call me old fashioned but here are my thoughts.

First, let’s leave out the fact that you watch a lot of criminal minds and that you are paranoid, it’s totally irrelevant in this scenario.

Here are the key “RED FLAGS” that stand out clear as day to me.
1)    What professional photographer is afraid to give out his phone number.
2)    What professional photographer is afraid to give out his name.
3)    Who in their right mind is going to meet someone they don’t know in the     
        woods without any contact information.

To me it might as well have been a stranger on the street that approached you and said “I’m a photographer, let’s go shoot in the woods, It’s totally safe and I’m truly a legit and great photographer” How many models would have said, Oh, sure that sounds great.

There is no question in my mind that you made the right decision. Next time however when a photographer doesn't want to provide his real name or phone number, end the conversation and say “thanks but no thanks” even if you initiated the TFP job - end of story, don’t go back and forth.

Me, I totally respect the models I work with and on occasion if it’s a long drive home after a shoot and bad weather I may even give them a call and make sure they made it home safely; sure a little overboard – but professional – absolutely.

Mar 22 13 08:15 pm Link