Forums > Off-Topic Discussion > I see S.Korea

Photographer

PhillipM

Posts: 6555

Martin, Tennessee, US

is still with us...

Whaaaa Happened?

I thought they would have been gone off the face of the map today....according to all the MM chatter on it.

Mar 30 13 07:50 am Link

Photographer

Rieni Otten

Posts: 193

Auxerre, Bourgogne, France

In 1940 before Germany invaded Holland there had been so many strike alerts already that the Dutch gave up believing Germany would ever attack them. So once they did attack, they could simply roll in with all their tanks and there was only some resistance from a few Dutch military units. It was an elephant stepping on a fly.

North Korea probably uses the same tactics :-)

Mar 30 13 08:09 am Link

Photographer

R A V E N D R I V E

Posts: 15867

New York, New York, US

Rieni Otten wrote:
In 1940 before Germany invaded Holland there had been so many strike alerts already that the Dutch gave up believing Germany would ever attack them. So once they did attack, they could simply roll in with all their tanks and there was only some resistance from a few Dutch military units. It was an elephant stepping on a fly.

North Korea probably uses the same tactics :-)

interesting!

South Koreans going to be caught by surprise when North Korea zurg rushes their Starcraft theatres

Mar 30 13 08:23 am Link

Photographer

Garry k

Posts: 27267

Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada

Rieni Otten wrote:
In 1940 before Germany invaded Holland there had been so many strike alerts already that the Dutch gave up believing Germany would ever attack them. So once they did attack, they could simply roll in with all their tanks and there was only some resistance from a few Dutch military units. It was an elephant stepping on a fly.

North Korea probably uses the same tactics :-)

do you think that North Korea has the same ( relative ) military might that Germany had in it's time ?

Mar 30 13 08:32 am Link

Photographer

Tom Linkens

Posts: 6418

Lititz, Pennsylvania, US

Garry k wrote:

do you think that North Korea has the same ( relative ) military might that Germany had in it's time ?

Or if the British Army had been waiting for German troops to step across the border?

Mar 30 13 08:53 am Link

Photographer

C h a r l e s D

Posts: 9304

Los Angeles, California, US

Well, N Korea just entered a "State of War" as AOL points out.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/2 … d%3D291326

We'll see what happens.

Mar 30 13 09:22 am Link

Photographer

Rieni Otten

Posts: 193

Auxerre, Bourgogne, France

Garry k wrote:

do you think that North Korea has the same ( relative ) military might that Germany had in it's time ?

What they have in common probably is being underestimated. Germany had a powerful warmachine but the main reason they got so far was because they were underestimated for a very long time. Even after they had invaded Poland, the rest of Europe still thought Germany wouldn't attack them.

So I think North Korea could cause a lot of havoc but I'm also sure that South Korea and the VS will deal with it within a couple of days. But China and Russia will get very nervous... imagine the mess :-(

Another thing they have/had in common was the completely f*cked up leaders. North Korea could make peace with the rest of the world and have a decent economy today if they wanted to.

Mar 30 13 09:25 am Link

Photographer

Seniorbrucio

Posts: 104

Dubai, Dubai, United Arab Emirates

I imagine the Chinese arent too pleased.


Simply a fat man trying to flex his un-visible muscles.

Mar 30 13 09:25 am Link

guide forum

Photographer

Robb Mann

Posts: 10687

Baltimore, Maryland, US

Seniorbrucio wrote:
I imagine the Chinese arent too pleased.


Simply a fat man trying to flex his un-visible muscles.

I wonder what Ambassador Rodman thinks?

Mar 30 13 09:29 am Link

Photographer

Seniorbrucio

Posts: 104

Dubai, Dubai, United Arab Emirates

Rieni Otten wrote:

What they have in common probably is being underestimated. Germany had a powerful warmachine but the main reason they got so far was because they were underestimated for a very long time. Even after they had invaded Poland, the rest of Europe still thought Germany wouldn't attack them.

So I think North Korea could cause a lot of havoc but I'm also sure that South Korea and the VS will deal with it within a couple of days. But China and Russia will get very nervous... imagine the mess :-(

Another thing they have/had in common was the completely f*cked up leaders. North Korea could make peace with the rest of the world and have a decent economy today if they wanted to.

Big difference is Germany had their eye on much bigger prizes. They went all in.

North Korea has no such hope. NK leadership needs the continual state of war to justify their existence.

Not to mention the vast difference in how germany viewed and treated its own citizens vs how NK does.

Mar 30 13 09:35 am Link

Photographer

Seniorbrucio

Posts: 104

Dubai, Dubai, United Arab Emirates

Robb Mann wrote:

I wonder what Ambassador Rodman thinks?

Yikes I saw Rodmans interview. Guess someone needed to flex his not longer relevant muscles.

Mar 30 13 09:37 am Link

Photographer

Will Snizek Photography

Posts: 1387

Beckley, West Virginia, US

North Korea routinely pulls these PR stunts to get attention and possibly aid from other countries.  The truth is they don't have enough money to go to war for very long.

Mar 30 13 10:01 am Link

Photographer

ontherocks

Posts: 22622

Salem, Oregon, US

so you think it's just posturing to get relief on sanctions (or whatever) and will blow over as in the past?

the iranian guy is probably like "who stole my thunder?" lol

but not lol if nukes start flying.

Will Snizek wrote:
North Korea routinely pulls these PR stunts to get attention and possibly aid from other countries.  The truth is they don't have enough money to go to war for very long.

Mar 30 13 11:20 am Link

Photographer

Will Snizek Photography

Posts: 1387

Beckley, West Virginia, US

ontherocks wrote:
so you think it's just posturing to get relief on sanctions (or whatever) and will blow over as in the past?

the iranian guy is probably like "who stole my thunder?" lol

but not lol if nukes start flying.


With North Korea, it's almost always a ploy to get finances. They are still a dangerous country and could do some damage, but I don't think they realistically think they'd win any war unless they joined forces with China or something.

Mar 30 13 11:22 am Link

Photographer

Jason Haven

Posts: 38336

Washington, District of Columbia, US

Garry k wrote:

do you think that North Korea has the same ( relative ) military might that Germany had in it's time ?

North Korea thinks it does. smile

Mar 30 13 11:36 am Link

Photographer

Al Lock Photography

Posts: 16071

Bangkok, Bangkok, Thailand

C h a r l e s  D wrote:
Well, N Korea just entered a "State of War" as AOL points out.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/2 … d%3D291326

We'll see what happens.

AOL are idiots. N. Korea has been in a "state of war" since 1950.

Mar 30 13 12:07 pm Link

Photographer

Al Lock Photography

Posts: 16071

Bangkok, Bangkok, Thailand

ASYLUM - Photo wrote:

North Korea thinks it does. smile

No, they do not.

Do not mistake saber rattling for illusions about their military capabilities. North Korea's military knows it stands zero chance in a war.

Mar 30 13 12:08 pm Link

Photographer

Jason Haven

Posts: 38336

Washington, District of Columbia, US

Al Lock Photography wrote:

No, they do not.

Do not mistake saber rattling for illusions about their military capabilities. North Korea's military knows it stands zero chance in a war.

You should take my comment as a bit tongue in cheek. smile

Mar 30 13 01:06 pm Link

Photographer

Will Snizek Photography

Posts: 1387

Beckley, West Virginia, US

Al Lock Photography wrote:

No, they do not.

Do not mistake saber rattling for illusions about their military capabilities. North Korea's military knows it stands zero chance in a war.

North Korea has a large infantry, but they lack the funds to back that up with air and sea support.  Any attempt by North Korea to invade South Korea wouldn't last very long.

Mar 30 13 01:36 pm Link

Photographer

rfordphotos

Posts: 4891

Antioch, California, US

I suspect this is another in the long series of tantrums NK has learned to use to soften the various sanctions. They have employed the tactic successfully countless times in the past 60 years, the West has inevitably caved in. It is their only real play--- Everyone knows they cannot hit the US with missiles, everyone knows their military would only last days (hours?) in a real conflict.

But with Seoul a mere stones throw from the border, they could easily inflict heavy civilian casualties, and no doubt severely impact the SK economy. They also know from past behavior, we would no doubt aid "rebuilding" their country if we actually ended up back in a shooting war....

China wants them to continue as a buffer state, China does not want the US influenced South Koreans on their southern border. I would imagine China is under absolutely incredible diplomatic pressure right now to regain control of their errant step child..... China has become increasingly capitalistic, making them a bit more vulnerable to economic pressure... their economy increasingly requires a healthy South Korean economy....

Keep an eye on the Kaesong complex- if the North shuts it down, they may have serious warlike intentions.

Mar 30 13 01:52 pm Link

Photographer

Rieni Otten

Posts: 193

Auxerre, Bourgogne, France

Will Snizek wrote:
North Korea routinely pulls these PR stunts to get attention and possibly aid from other countries.  The truth is they don't have enough money to go to war for very long.

They said the same about Germany which in fact was bankrupt after WW1 and sanctions by their defeaters. A bread cost something like 10.000 Deutsche Mark, that's about $10.000. That's how much their money had devaluated. Still they were able to build their war machine and destroy about all of Europe.

To win a war you need a motivated army of people, weapons alone won't do the job for you. And people in North Korea are very motivated because they either believe in their country and leader, or they are scared to death and will do anything their leaders ask for.

Mar 30 13 03:12 pm Link

Photographer

Orca Bay Images

Posts: 32234

Woodinville, Washington, US

Rieni Otten wrote:
To win a war you need a motivated army of people, weapons alone won't do the job for you. And people in North Korea are very motivated because they either believe in their country and leader, or they are scared to death and will do anything their leaders ask for.

If they're scared to death of the leadership, that doesn't necessarily mean they'll fight to the death for Dear Leader. It could also mean that they'll surrender at the first opportunity. Especially if they catch the scent of food coming from behind the enemy lines.

Look at how bravely and tenaciously the Iraqis fought for Saddam in Desert Storm. Iraqi troops were surrendering to journalists.

Mar 30 13 03:47 pm Link

Model

Cy_n

Posts: 295

Saarbrücken, Saarland, Germany

R A V E N D R I V E wrote:

interesting!

South Koreans going to be caught by surprise when North Korea zurg rushes their Starcraft theatres

That would be also bad news for US bases in S.Korea !

Mar 30 13 03:58 pm Link

Photographer

Will Snizek Photography

Posts: 1387

Beckley, West Virginia, US

Rieni Otten wrote:

They said the same about Germany which in fact was bankrupt after WW1 and sanctions by their defeaters. A bread cost something like 10.000 Deutsche Mark, that's about $10.000. That's how much their money had devaluated. Still they were able to build their war machine and destroy about all of Europe.

To win a war you need a motivated army of people, weapons alone won't do the job for you. And people in North Korea are very motivated because they either believe in their country and leader, or they are scared to death and will do anything their leaders ask for.

The difference is we know exactly what North Korea's intentions are and know exactly how built up their military is.  A beefed up infantry doesn't do you much good in modern warfare.  The situation with North Korea is nothing like the situation that allowed the Nazis to rise up in power.

Mar 30 13 04:07 pm Link

Model

Caperucita Roja

Posts: 11544

Plymouth, England, United Kingdom

I'm writing a paper about this at the moment... it's all got a bit exciting (in possibly a horrible way of course!)

The North-South divide conflict has been frozen for a long time, and many threats of this sort have been made. Some experts believe that NK don't have sufficient weapon 'power' to make any real attack against the US while they're in their own country.

However, NK would get obliterated if they tried anything substantial. My guess is the US have been waiting for a looong time to test their new technology anyway, and they wouldn't hesitate to defend their ally militarily.

I just feel terrible for all the innocent civilians that may or may not get caught up in this. I wish there was another way to defend territories/defend allies against dangerous governments...

Mar 30 13 04:08 pm Link

Photographer

Will Snizek Photography

Posts: 1387

Beckley, West Virginia, US

Caperucita Roja wrote:
I'm writing a paper about this at the moment... it's all got a bit exciting (in possibly a horrible way of course!)

The North-South divide conflict has been frozen for a long time, and many threats of this sort have been made. Some experts believe that NK don't have sufficient weapon 'power' to make any real attack against the US while they're in their own country.

However, NK would get obliterated if they tried anything substantial. My guess is the US have been waiting for a looong time to test their new technology anyway, and they wouldn't hesitate to defend their ally militarily.

I just feel terrible for all the innocent civilians that may or may not get caught up in this. I wish there was another way to defend territories/defend allies against dangerous governments...

Considering the business interests the U.S. and other countries have in South Korea, North Korea wouldn't last long.  Many innocent civilians would die but wars are sadly never actually about the people.

Mar 30 13 04:14 pm Link

Model

M A U I

Posts: 1587

Harare, Harare, Zimbabwe

Al Lock Photography wrote:

AOL are idiots. N. Korea has been in a "state of war" since 1950.

Yep, since no treaty was signed, North and South are technically still "at war"

Mar 30 13 05:18 pm Link

Photographer

Chris Rifkin

Posts: 24641

Tampa, Florida, US

Fat boy be mad and jealous that this fat boy is more famous
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bZkp7q19f0

Mar 30 13 06:00 pm Link

Photographer

joeyk

Posts: 14742

Seminole, Florida, US

Al Lock Photography wrote:
AOL are idiots. N. Korea has been in a "state of war" since 1950.

If you're going to pick on the words, do it right...

AOL are not idiots ( this time ) it's a quote from the DPRK ( the real idiots ):

"Now that the revolutionary armed forces of the DPRK have entered into an actual military action, the inter-Korean relations have naturally entered the state of war," said the statement, which was carried by Pyongyang's official Korean Central News Agency, referring to the North's official name, the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.

The AOL article mentions the continuing "technical" state of war...

Mar 30 13 06:17 pm Link

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photographybyStavros

Posts: 5399

Bainbridge Island, Washington, US

If North Korea so much as flinches,a rain of hell will be unleashed upon them so fast that they'll never know what hit them.  One of my favorite lines from the movie "The day after" ...... ...... . We're not talking Hiroshima any more, Hiroshima was peanuts"

Mar 30 13 06:23 pm Link

Photographer

Orca Bay Images

Posts: 32234

Woodinville, Washington, US

photographybyStavros wrote:
If North Korea so much as flinches,a rain of hell will be unleashed upon them so fast that they'll never know what hit them.  One of my favorite lines from the movie "The day after" ...... ...... . We're not talking Hiroshima any more, Hiroshima was peanuts"

I seriously doubt we'll go nuclear unless NK does.

Mar 30 13 06:39 pm Link

Photographer

rfordphotos

Posts: 4891

Antioch, California, US

photographybyStavros wrote:
If North Korea so much as flinches,a rain of hell will be unleashed upon them so fast that they'll never know what hit them.  One of my favorite lines from the movie "The day after" ...... ...... . We're not talking Hiroshima any more, Hiroshima was peanuts"

I seriously doubt it.

We didnt do anything when the NK artillery was used in 2009, nor did we respond when they sank the SK patrol boat. There have been countless commando raids, artillery "events" etc etc for decades. We slapped a few more meaningless sanctions on them when they defied the world and tested their nuclear weapons....It seems a certain level of civilian death is "tolerable" under the circumstances.

If NK unleashed an artillery barrage on Seoul, we would no doubt respond with similar force. So they wont do that. Instead, they will shell a border town, or arrest the SK workers at the Kaesong complex and try them as spies... They will use a very carefully calculated outrage, something just short of forcing a military response. It is the only thing they know how to do well.

To be honest, even if NK nuked Seoul, I seriously doubt we would nuke them in return. I believe the fear of China's response to a nuclear answer would outweigh any thought of a nuclear response.

I do believe we would unleash an incredible torrent of destruction on them, but i think it would always be "conventional" weapons.

China is the only answer to this problem as far as I can see. They are the only nation with sufficient sway in NK to bring any real pressure to bear. I am not sure their goals for NK are a very good match for Western goals...

Mar 30 13 07:52 pm Link

Photographer

joeyk

Posts: 14742

Seminole, Florida, US

rfordphotos wrote:
I do believe we would unleash an incredible torrent of destruction on them, but i think it would always be "conventional" weapons.

No need to "go nuclear", we could eradicate them in a week "conventional"...

Mar 30 13 08:12 pm Link

Photographer

Chris Rifkin

Posts: 24641

Tampa, Florida, US

They had better not mess with Japan...
http://nerdreactor.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/godzilla-breath-godzilla-8744426-701-326.jpg

Mar 30 13 08:17 pm Link

Photographer

Seniorbrucio

Posts: 104

Dubai, Dubai, United Arab Emirates

Rieni Otten wrote:
They said the same about Germany which in fact was bankrupt after WW1 and sanctions by their defeaters. A bread cost something like 10.000 Deutsche Mark, that's about $10.000. That's how much their money had devaluated. Still they were able to build their war machine and destroy about all of Europe.

To win a war you need a motivated army of people, weapons alone won't do the job for you. And people in North Korea are very motivated because they either believe in their country and leader, or they are scared to death and will do anything their leaders ask for.

How motivated do you think the population of NK is?

A large portion of them live day to day.

I also think the big unknown factor is the "mind is blown" factor.

Because they have been completely cut off and sheltered how would NKers react/behave etc once "let out" in pursuit of war.

There was a great article about a year ago on NK immigrants living in the 3rd teir cities of China. 3rd Tier cities are the some what big cities generally lack the technology etc of the Beijings.

They interviewed a NK woman and she was talking about the first time she saw a rice cooker (commonplace in pretty much every home in SK, China, Japan etc). She said she stared at it for like 10 minutes. This was a couple of year ago.

So imagine a bunch of NK soldiers rocking up to Seoul.

Mar 30 13 08:22 pm Link

Photographer

Lohkee

Posts: 12787

Maricopa, Arizona, US

Seniorbrucio wrote:

How motivated do you think the population of NK is?

A large portion of them live day to day.

I also think the big unknown factor is the "mind is blown" factor.

Because they have been completely cut off and sheltered how would NKers react/behave etc once "let out" in pursuit of war.

There was a great article about a year ago on NK immigrants living in the 3rd teir cities of China. 3rd Tier cities are the some what big cities generally lack the technology etc of the Beijings.

They interviewed a NK woman and she was talking about the first time she saw a rice cooker (commonplace in pretty much every home in SK, China, Japan etc). She said she stared at it for like 10 minutes. This was a couple of year ago.

So imagine a bunch of NK soldiers rocking up to Seoul.

Yep. Bombs are so old school and expensive. Shower them with happy meals (super-sized, of course) and I-phones. Could be the cheapest/fastest war in the history of warfare with no blood being spilled. lol

(and I'm being serious here)

Mar 30 13 08:38 pm Link

Photographer

Will Snizek Photography

Posts: 1387

Beckley, West Virginia, US

Looks like North Korea is making moves.  Lol

http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z394/wdsnizek/ea1f0e995f03bf5a300eb2b39c633449_zpsb5674f98.jpg

Mar 30 13 10:27 pm Link

Photographer

joeyk

Posts: 14742

Seminole, Florida, US

Will Snizek wrote:
Looks like North Korea is making moves.  Lol

http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z394/wdsnizek/ea1f0e995f03bf5a300eb2b39c633449_zpsb5674f98.jpg

So it's true, they have upgraded their gear considerably...

Mar 31 13 05:44 am Link

Photographer

Orca Bay Images

Posts: 32234

Woodinville, Washington, US

Lohkee wrote:
Yep. Bombs are so old school and expensive. Shower them with happy meals (super-sized, of course) and I-phones. Could be the cheapest/fastest war in the history of warfare with no blood being spilled. lol

(and I'm being serious here)

Before dropping bombs or firing missiles, we should airdrop a few hundred fresh bacon-burgers into formations of thousands of North Korean soldiers. Don't give them enough for them all to eat, just enough for all to smell the bacony goodness. Then sit back and watch as they tear each other apart in the resulting melee.

Mar 31 13 01:29 pm Link

Photographer

Orca Bay Images

Posts: 32234

Woodinville, Washington, US

Seniorbrucio wrote:
I also think the big unknown factor is the "mind is blown" factor.

Because they have been completely cut off and sheltered how would NKers react/behave etc once "let out" in pursuit of war.

That's an excellent point.

What would be going through the minds of NK troops as they see the prosperity and abundance in SK? Might they start to wonder how badly they've been lied to by Dear Leader?

Mar 31 13 01:32 pm Link