This thread was locked on 2013-04-01 09:17:49 by Kevin Connery. Reason: Off-topic doesn't mean posters can act like a swarm of piranha.
Forums > Off-Topic Discussion > What has happened to Professionalism in MD

Photographer

Pictures That Pop

Posts: 3

Glen Burnie, Maryland, US

I've been shooting professionally for years (weddings, commercial, landscapes, architecture, etc).  Recently I decide to change direction and concentrate on portraits, glamor, and boudoir.

Living a suburb of Maryland I search for models willing to trade their time for my CDs of their images.  I was able to locate a few and contacted them.

Two have worked out nicely and there's another one I expect will also be great.

However, the majority of the models I've contact (including some who wanted payment) have no sense of professionalism.  They list themselves as Professionals and Very Experience, yet that can't use a calendar, can't tell time, and can ever engage in minimal communication skills via either phone, text, or email.

I just don't understated it.  I've contact models in Northern Virginia, Southern Pennsylvania, Washington, DC, Delaware, and Maryland.  About 2/3 of them fall into the above negative category. 

I just can't see how you can list yourself as very experience and Professional, yet can answer emails, tell time, or pick up a phone.

So far this has been very frustrating.  I know that has to be models in their areas willing to trade their time and my images, but where are they?''

Reb Orrell, III
Reb Orrell Photography

Apr 01 13 05:28 am Link

Photographer

salvatori.

Posts: 3836

Bellefonte, Pennsylvania, US

With all due respect, you have been on this site for just a few months and this is your first forum post.

Do you actually think that ranting about how bad models are is going to get them to work with you?

And IMHO, ranting about it is just as unprofessional as the behavior that you see as so rampant.

And a tip... rants belong on OT. Rant against models in the model forum is not a good idea.

Again, IMHO

Apr 01 13 05:34 am Link

Photographer

SME

Posts: 21029

Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, US

Moderator Note!
Moving this to the Off Topic forum.

Apr 01 13 05:45 am Link

Photographer

Loki Studio

Posts: 3018

Royal Oak, Michigan, US

"So far this has been very frustrating.  I know that has to be models in their areas willing to trade their time and my images, but where are they?''

You assume that your offer is better than the 25+ trade offers that good models get every week from the 6000+ photographers in your area.  When you provide a great offer of publication, unique images, or $$$-your response rate will get better.

Apr 01 13 05:46 am Link

guide forum

Model

Damianne

Posts: 15975

Austin, Texas, US

I like that professionalism has officially just become being willing to work with someone.

Apr 01 13 05:48 am Link

Photographer

Art of the nude

Posts: 11892

Olivet, Michigan, US

Damianne wrote:
I like that professionalism has officially just become being willing to work with someone.

Well, willing to work with HIM, for "a CD of images".  It's not necessarily professional to work with OTHER photographers.  Or, say, actual money.

Apr 01 13 06:05 am Link

guide forum

Model

Damianne

Posts: 15975

Austin, Texas, US

Art of the nude wrote:

Well, willing to work with HIM, for "a CD of images".  It's not necessarily professional to work with OTHER photographers.  Or, say, of actual money.

Exactly.

Apr 01 13 06:21 am Link

Photographer

Caradoc

Posts: 19742

Scottsdale, Arizona, US

Art of the nude wrote:

Well, willing to work with HIM, for "a CD of images".  It's not necessarily professional to work with OTHER photographers.  Or, say, actual money.

borat

Apr 01 13 06:30 am Link

Photographer

Farenell Photography

Posts: 18127

Albany, New York, US

Amateurs on an amateur website expecting professional conduct. What did you REALLY expect was going to happen?

Apr 01 13 06:30 am Link

Model

Kithos

Posts: 360

York, Pennsylvania, US

I don't think it's one particular area or just certain models, but the industry as a whole that has changed. These days I am lucky to ever get a "no thank you I am unavailable" from photographers. Correspondences get replied to several months later and sometimes even years later. A lot has changed in the internet model industry since when I started in 2001. Newer models are more lazy and most wont even give the respect of using complete sentences. Photographers have adopted this attitude that models need the money bad enough to wait for them to decide when to get into contact. There is no common respect amongst professionals anymore because simply people dont care to be professionals. The industry is flooded with "photographers" who really want a stripper and "models" who just want to pay their bills. Neither party has any interest in learning their trade.

Apr 01 13 06:33 am Link

Model

Kithos

Posts: 360

York, Pennsylvania, US

Farenell Photography wrote:
Amateurs on an amateur website expecting professional conduct. What did you REALLY expect was going to happen?

Hahaha loving this comment!

Apr 01 13 06:34 am Link

Photographer

SPRINGHEEL

Posts: 38195

Gibraltar, Michigan, US

reborrell wrote:
yet that can't use a calendar

lol

Apr 01 13 06:34 am Link

guide forum

Photographer

Robb Mann

Posts: 10651

Baltimore, Maryland, US

Its much harder to find models willing to do TF in this market/economy than it was a few years ago. If you have an idea or a project that needs a model you might find someone thats excited to work with you; if you're looking for gals to stand nekid in front of seamless that will be a much harder sell as a TF idea.

I suggest networking, attending local M&G events, etc. We have one of the most supportive and collaborative mayhem communities in the country here, leverage that.

Oh, and don't publicly rant about how unprofessional local models in your area are -- they might not know how to use a calendar, but they can read. wink

Apr 01 13 08:38 am Link

Photographer

ontherocks

Posts: 22605

Salem, Oregon, US

have you tried the casting section? i've done two castings. i got zero responses on one, but two on the second.

aside from paying traveling models, i generally just shoot with models who contact me or that i meet either through working with other photographers or buying my phone at costco or whatever.

if they aren't responding maybe you need to make the deal more compelling. money might be one way to do that.

you could also try CL and omp.

and if you get good enough to be one of the best in your area i imagine the models will start finding you.

Apr 01 13 08:47 am Link

Model

Rachel-Elise

Posts: 1650

Grand Rapids, Michigan, US

Loki Studio wrote:
"So far this has been very frustrating.  I know that has to be llamas in their areas willing to trade their time and my images, but where are they?''

You assume that your offer is better than the 25  trade offers that good llamas get every week from the 6000  photographers in your area.  When you provide a great offer of publication, unique images, or $$$-your response rate will get better.

This.

Do you have any idea how many times a week I get offered to "form an ongoing 'muse' relationship"?????

I no longer care about being a MUSE. After working in this industry for 12 years, I feel that I deserve to be paid by these people. After all, most offering trade--or worse, the "muse relationship"--can't even provide images that would be of any value to my portfolio.

Search out the full-time llamas in your area. Offer them something that will be of value to THEM (usually money). Then you will have success.

Apr 01 13 08:51 am Link

Model

Jules NYC

Posts: 16229

New York, New York, US

Learning how to pick models for trade is as good as paying an agent to provide a model from an agency (if you even have to pay for a test).

Freelance models not signed with anyone can be as professional as any agency model.

With that said, learn how to weed out what you don't want.

Apr 01 13 08:51 am Link

Model

Jules NYC

Posts: 16229

New York, New York, US

Rachel-Elise  wrote:

This.

Do you have any idea how many times a week I get offered to "form an ongoing 'muse' relationship"?????

I no longer care about being a MUSE. After working in this industry for 12 years, I feel that I deserve to be paid by these people. After all, most offering trade--or worse, the "muse relationship"--can't even provide images that would be of any value to my portfolio.

Search out the full-time models in your area. Offer them something that will be of value to THEM (usually money). Then you will have success.

Muse to me was the magical element to all artistry.
Now it has become, 'model who doesn't have to worry about bills and is available to satiate your creative whim on a moment's notice.'

Oh that's right, I won't pay for your 4-dollar a gallon gas either.
Being an artist myself means I have to be a cheap bastard.

smile

Apr 01 13 08:54 am Link

Photographer

BYS

Posts: 11614

Paris, Île-de-France, France

define professionalism

Apr 01 13 08:54 am Link

Model

Jules NYC

Posts: 16229

New York, New York, US

BYS wrote:
define professionalism

Does job exceedingly well
Gets paid for this excellence (look to definition above... One can be professional and not get paid)
On time
Experienced demeanor: conversation/appt./scheduling
No personal drama

Etc.

Definition is in any abridged or unabridged dictionary.

& internet

Apr 01 13 08:58 am Link

Photographer

Caradoc

Posts: 19742

Scottsdale, Arizona, US

Rachel-Elise  wrote:
Do you have any idea how many times a week I get offered to "form an ongoing 'muse' relationship"?????

I don't even have any idea what that phrase is supposed to mean.

"Muse relationship?" Sounds like a pick-up line from someone who thinks that having opposable thumbs and a camera means that women should be lining up in front of him.

Apr 01 13 09:02 am Link

Model

Jules NYC

Posts: 16229

New York, New York, US

Caradoc wrote:

I don't even have any idea what that phrase is supposed to mean.

"Muse relationship?" Sounds like a pick-up line from someone who thinks that having opposable thumbs and a camera means that women should be lining up in front of him.

Lol

Maybe this for -0-

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=dBVqGsZH … BVqGsZHWAs

Apr 01 13 09:04 am Link

Photographer

ontherocks

Posts: 22605

Salem, Oregon, US

yeah, what's with those guys? how can you choose a muse before you've even worked with them? it kind of requires that both people are really invested in the thing and get a lot out of it.

Caradoc wrote:
"Muse relationship?" Sounds like a pick-up line from someone who thinks that having opposable thumbs and a camera means that women should be lining up in front of him.

Apr 01 13 09:06 am Link

Photographer

BYS

Posts: 11614

Paris, Île-de-France, France

Jules NYC wrote:

Does job exceedingly well
Gets paid for this excellence (look to definition above... One can be professional and not get paid)
On time
Experienced demeanor: conversation/appt./scheduling
No personal drama

Etc.

Definition is in any abridged or unabridged dictionary.

& internet

this

Apr 01 13 09:06 am Link

Model

NicoleNudes

Posts: 3860

Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Damianne wrote:
I like that professionalism has officially just become being willing to work with someone.

Mmmhmm

Apr 01 13 09:09 am Link

Photographer

Tony Lawrence

Posts: 19225

Chicago, Illinois, US

Kithos wrote:
I don't think it's one particular area or just certain models, but the industry as a whole that has changed. These days I am lucky to ever get a "no thank you I am unavailable" from photographers. Correspondences get replied to several months later and sometimes even years later. A lot has changed in the internet model industry since when I started in 2001. Newer models are more lazy and most wont even give the respect of using complete sentences. Photographers have adopted this attitude that models need the money bad enough to wait for them to decide when to get into contact. There is no common respect amongst professionals anymore because simply people dont care to be professionals. The industry is flooded with "photographers" who really want a stripper and "models" who just want to pay their bills. Neither party has any interest in learning their trade.

I find this strange.   Most of the photographers I know would love to work with a model like you.  Is this TF or paid?   My guess is they are thinking you're looking for payment and feel they can't afford you or they don't pay.   However if its for trade... no reply would be odd.   While some of the MM shooters are goofs I've found that as a rule we are years to decades older then the models and we tend to act in a more professional fashion.   One example is many of the expensive workshops offered for photographers are sold out.   Videos produced by members here are bought by photographers along with books and software and pricey gear.   There are shooters here who fly models in to shoot and travel to them as well.   They buy clothes and make-up and rent studio space and hire MUA.   I know I have.   In fact one only need look at sites like Craigslist to see how many photographers go begging for models and these aren't creepy dudes.

Apr 01 13 09:12 am Link

Model

NicoleNudes

Posts: 3860

Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Also, I would just like to put it out there that I message photographer to shoot trade, or if I really love their work and want to work with them - offer to pay them and I still don't get a response either.

However, I don't bitch and moan about it. I move on with my life and focus on the people who do response to my messages.

Apr 01 13 09:15 am Link