Forums > Model Colloquy > Who Is Your Customer?

Photographer

Tony Lawrence

Posts: 19225

Chicago, Illinois, US

MelissaAnn  wrote:

Continue thinking whatever you like, unfortunately, reality differs from your opinion. 

I never said MM was Facebook.  I said people are here for different reasons, and use the site for social networking, much like FB. 

Model Mayhem is not a site *only* for professionals.  It says that nowhere.  Are there professionals on here?  Yep.  Are there professionals on Facebook?  Yep.
Does social networking take place on both sites?  Yep.  Do people have portfolios on both sites?  Yep. 

Reality can be so frustrating. wink

If you start a profile and indicate you are a model you stand a decent chance of being contacted too model.   If your focus is not to shoot then in my view don't start a profile or say.   Don't call me I'll call you.   Facebook isn't strictly a networking site and in fact you can limit who you communicate with.  MM doesn't have that feature and any member can write you unless you block them.   If I ask a model too shoot I actually do expect to receive a reply.   I can't make her of course.   Years ago a Texas model I wanted to shoot for art nude was wayyy out of my budget but she was very friendly and replied.   A photographer traveling my way wanted to do some nudes so I hooked them up.   That would not have happened had she ignored me.

The ideal is to network and build bridges.   Every polite and respectful inquiry could be a potential paid job even if it begin as a TF.   Full time models who rely on paid shoots to eat understand that a missed job may mean bills go unpaid.   Models lose nothing by replying.   I know some models claim that butt hurt shooters can be abusive.   Just ignore or block or CAM them.   I'm not agreeing that its rude but if your here to work then its silly not too follow up with serious requests.   If your not here too work then what's the point of joining.

Apr 02 13 11:36 pm Link

Model

MelissaAnn

Posts: 3956

Seattle, Washington, US

DarrylPascoePhotography wrote:
I didn't say that the reality wasn't different than what the site claims to be, I simply said what the site's purpose is. I stand by that statement. A hammer isn't for doing a lot of things people have used hammers in reality for. Doesn't mean the purpose of the hammer changes.

I don't remember saying anything about model mayhem being "only" for professionals or that I saw that written did I? You can show me where I made that claim. If you google model mayhem the advertising for the site you will see exactly and precisely as I posted it.

I also remember posting that there is of course a social element to model mayhem obviously we are using it right now wink Don't remember claiming there wasn't.

Facebook has the actual purpose of being a social networking site with no specific intent involved. Model mayhem is very different then that, there is a specific purpose for members of model mayhem to be here. Though many may be here to socialize as well, it is very clear what the site is and was designed for. What people do with it for in reality...well we cant control that completely now can we. (simple example people faking being a photographer or model in order to scam or harm other members. would they need to do that if the purpose of the site was strictly just for "anyone" to come and socialize? and could we have a problem with that if it was? Doesn't mean it loses its initial purpose. Is it not true that in order to be a part of this site you have to be a photographer, model, stylists, etc etc even going to the point of claiming who cannot be here.

and yep...reality can be very frustrating wink

Do you get upset when people use a hammer, or a pencil for something other than what you see as it's "intended" or "advertised" purpose?"  Is it rude, or wrong of them to do so?  There are people all over the world picking their noses with pencils right now.  Would it be productive to waste time and energy ranting about it?  Do you think that every item/service should only be used for it's advertised purpose, and that any other use is "wrong," and something worth upsetting yourself about?  The answers seems obvious, but clearly they're not to some folks with your line of thought.

You can choose to focus on what you want to get out of your experience here, and find like-minded people, or you can continue to be frustrated that not everyone will use the site the way you think they ought to.  Your choice, but I can tell you that the first option will make you much happier, and the second option won't accomplish anything positive.

Apr 02 13 11:41 pm Link

Photographer

T-D-L

Posts: 10303

Los Angeles, California, US

DarrylPascoePhotography wrote:
I didn't say that the reality wasn't different than what the site claims to be, I simply said what the site's purpose is. I stand by that statement. A hammer isn't for doing a lot of things people have used hammers in reality for. Doesn't mean the purpose of the hammer changes.

I don't remember saying anything about model mayhem being "only" for professionals or that I saw that written did I? You can show me where I made that claim. If you google model mayhem the advertising for the site you will see exactly and precisely as I posted it.

I also remember posting that there is of course a social element to model mayhem obviously we are using it right now wink Don't remember claiming there wasn't.

Facebook has the actual purpose of being a social networking site with no specific intent involved. Model mayhem is very different then that, there is a specific purpose for members of model mayhem to be here. Though many may be here to socialize as well, it is very clear what the site is and was designed for. What people do with it for in reality...well we cant control that completely now can we. (simple example people faking being a photographer or model in order to scam or harm other members. would they need to do that if the purpose of the site was strictly just for "anyone" to come and socialize? and could we have a problem with that if it was? Doesn't mean it loses its initial purpose. Is it not true that in order to be a part of this site you have to be a photographer, model, stylists, etc etc even going to the point of claiming who cannot be here.

and yep...reality can be very frustrating wink

Just an FYI, MM was originally called the "myspace" for models and photographers....so I guess if you want to get technical MM was indeed conceived with the notion of social networking in mind.  And just saying it's a site for "professionals" doesn't make it so.  It doesn't take a formal census to know that this place is populated by a majority of hobbyists and people just doing it for fun.

ETA: and just for the sake of argument to address your opinion on MM having a very "specific purpose"; technically the site offers no other benefit than to allow us to communicate with one another.  How we do so is entirely dependent upon the parties involved.  Just because someone is on MM doesn't really mean they are here to solely shoot or take part in modeling.  The site offers far too much to consider it solely purposeful for  that.

Apr 02 13 11:54 pm Link

Photographer

DarrylPascoePhotography

Posts: 477

Toronto, Ontario, Canada

MelissaAnn  wrote:
Do you get upset when people use a hammer, or a pencil for something other than what you see as it's "intended" or "advertised" purpose?"  Is it rude, or wrong of them to do so?  There are people all over the world picking their noses with pencils right now.  Would it be productive to waste time and energy ranting about it?  Do you think that every item/service should only be used for it's advertised purpose, and that any other use is "wrong," and something worth upsetting yourself about?  The answers seems obvious, but clearly they're not to some folks with your line of thought.

You can choose to focus on what you want to get out of your experience here, and find like-minded people, or you can continue to be frustrated that not everyone will use the site the way you think they ought to.  Your choice, but I can tell you that the first option will make you much happier, and the second option won't accomplish anything positive.

If they are using a hammer towards me or my property improperly or something that affects me...yep I might just be upset about it lol
It may be rude to do so if again you are using it in a way that negatively affects another person..yes. I guess it depends on what your doing with it.

I also in my earlier post made a comment about not letting it get to you. I am starting to assume you didn't fully read the post before replying.

You are attempting to make the claim that just because someone doesn't use this site for what the purpose is, does that make it wrong...well yes technically it could be very wrong. There are plenty of examples being discussed constantly in the forums and rules strictly prohibiting many of them. Should we be upset about it. Some of them sure. Everyone that is a part of this site should be here for the same reasons, and be upset about the ones trying to ruin what the site could be for the rest of us. To collaborate in modelling and photography etc etc. Why would the members who are here for that purpose want people here who do not...this is the exact reason that model mayhem is looked at by the industry the way it is. This is how all here are affected. It is often looked at as a joke because of precisely this kind of thing. Again why would anyone use this site for anything but wanting to collaborate and connect with others here? That's the whole point of the site. Because there are a lot of human beings who do strange things that nobody else understands, or are creeps just looking to for example try and take pictures of pretty girls with as little clothing as possible on. That's the unfortunate part.  Am I all bent out of shape about how others use the site? nah I don't get stressed about stuff like that but it doesn't mean the point doesn't stand, and it doesn't mean its not rude or acting inappropriately for example. Its not about the way "I think it ought to be used" .....if there is something else this site is for outside of collaborating with others within the modelling industry, please enlighten me as to what that is because as I mentioned earlier it seems to be a pretty straightforward concept as to what this site is for, at least for the advertisers of the site...regardless of the few who may not use it as such. As far as I'm concerned let them have at it, as long as it doesn't dramatically affect those who are here for the right reasons.

Apr 03 13 12:12 am Link

Photographer

DarrylPascoePhotography

Posts: 477

Toronto, Ontario, Canada

T-D-L wrote:

Just an FYI, MM was originally called the "myspace" for models and photographers....so I guess if you want to get technical MM was indeed conceived with the notion of social networking in mind.  And just saying it's a site for "professionals" doesn't make it so.  It doesn't take a formal census to know that this place is populated by a majority of hobbyists and people just doing it for fun.

ETA: and just for the sake of argument to address your opinion on MM having a very "specific purpose"; technically the site offers no other benefit than to allow us to communicate with one another.  How we do so is entirely dependent upon the parties involved.  Just because someone is on MM doesn't really mean they are here to solely shoot or take part in modeling.  The site offers far too much to consider it solely purposeful for  that.

As I mentioned many times, nowhere did I say "only" professionals, I simply took the sites own advertised statement and paste it, yep there is a social aspect to the site. and yep the site is for the collaboration and to connect with other people in the modelling industry. Nowhere did I offer specifics on how that connect or collaboration must happen.

Apr 03 13 12:18 am Link

Model

MelissaAnn

Posts: 3956

Seattle, Washington, US

Tony Lawrence wrote:
If you start a profile and indicate you are a model you stand a decent chance of being contacted too model.   If your focus is not to shoot then in my view don't start a profile or say.   Don't call me I'll call you.   Facebook isn't strictly a networking site and in fact you can limit who you communicate with.  MM doesn't have that feature and any member can write you unless you block them.   If I ask a model too shoot I actually do expect to receive a reply.   I can't make her of course.   Years ago a Texas model I wanted to shoot for art nude was wayyy out of my budget but she was very friendly and replied.   A photographer traveling my way wanted to do some nudes so I hooked them up.   That would not have happened had she ignored me.

The ideal is to network and build bridges.   Every polite and respectful inquiry could be a potential paid job even if it begin as a TF.   Full time models who rely on paid shoots to eat understand that a missed job may mean bills go unpaid.   Models lose nothing by replying.   I know some models claim that butt hurt shooters can be abusive.   Just ignore or block or CAM them.   I'm not agreeing that its rude but if your here to work then its silly not too follow up with serious requests. If your not here too work then what's the point of joining.

I'm here for fun, to make art, to meet new people, and for an excuse to travel to places I may not otherwise go.  I have a lucrative day job, and don't need to make a penny off of modeling.  Many other people are here for similar reasons, all of which are perfectly valid reasons for joining MM. You may disagree, but the folks that are here to have fun, or for any other reason, don't care what you think.  And you shouldn't care what they think. 

Building an "ideal" network is not a concern for many folks here, so why would they bother responding to every offer?  Many of them try to respond whenever they can, but it's not their top priority to get back to everyone, because they don't *need* to be here, they just *want* to be.  Who are you to tell people that their reasons for joining the site are not valid? The reasons other people choose to join may not be valid to you, but your opinion doesn't really matter much in the lives of those who don't know you, and they have just as much right to be here as you.

My reasons for being here are clearly very different than yours, so please, have a look at my port (if you haven't already) and tell me if you think what I've done is pointless.  I'm truly curious to know.  Regardless of your answer, I'm accomplishing exactly what I set out to do here, and having fun doing it. :-)

Apr 03 13 12:43 am Link