Model
Jules NYC
Posts: 21617
New York, New York, US
Slut shaming  Yes, all models that shoot nudes are of course, sluts.
Model
Russian Katarina
Posts: 1413
London, England, United Kingdom
It's kind of like the "real women have curves" slogan It's easy to degrade other women with a seemingly positive statement like that. Makes the person feel better about themselves but in reality is just the opposite of respecting other women's choices when it comes to their bodies and their careers.
Model
Jules NYC
Posts: 21617
New York, New York, US
It would be a refreshing change if women just respected each other whether they have the same body type or not.
... and this whole nude vs non-nude and attitudinal positions...
I wish people would just leave things be.
Don't like it, don't look at it.
On the other side, don't like reading it, turn the page.
Makeup Artist
AtoZed Creative
Posts: 39
Dallas, Texas, US
Jules NYC wrote:
... and this whole nude vs non-nude and attitudinal positions...
I wish people would just leave things be. So true
We had this, recently, in a Facebook photographer / model group I'm a part of. A young girl (18) comes in and says "I want to get into modeling" but proceeds to say "I won't do nudes or be slutty like that" which - in a group of photographers with some amazing nudes done by them - went over like a lead balloon.
Model
Russian Katarina
Posts: 1413
London, England, United Kingdom
Insecure people tend to show catty behavior and put others down to compensate for a lack of self confidence - there's no shortage of such people in both genders, unfortunately. They can't argue with success though and there are successful models of all shapes and sizes on this site.
Model
Jules NYC
Posts: 21617
New York, New York, US
AtoZed Creative wrote:
So true
We had this, recently, in a Facebook photographer / llama group I'm a part of. A young girl (18) comes in and says "I want to get into llamaing" but proceeds to say "I won't do nudes or be slutty like that" which - in a group of photographers with some amazing nudes done by them - went over like a lead balloon. Jeesh
Shakes Head
Photographer
Christopher Hartman
Posts: 54196
Buena Park, California, US
Jules NYC wrote:
Slut shaming
Yes, all models that shoot nudes are of course, sluts. No...no...no...it's the ones NOT doing n00ds.
Photographer
Incubi Portrait Studio
Posts: 15
Newport News, Virginia, US
Jules NYC wrote:
Jeesh
Shakes Head I think you have posted the most in here so I'll address you. The message was clear; maybe you read it and didn't understand. There alot of people in here with great points of view and there were many people that inboxed me saying they agreed with me. I accept your point of view, but keep in mind this wasn't for insulting purposes, I'm much better at insulting people than that.
Ill reiterate for the initial folks that didn't get it. Please look up the word “slut shame" if you don't know what it means. I'm not going to change anyone's mind that is way on the "anti-nude" side (love whoever coined that phrase), this isn't for them. This is for the people on the fence and to reassure the models who shoot nudes that they are normal people male or females so you shouldn't "slut shame" them. If you come off on your profile directly insulting people who you think is beneath your moral high ground then this is also for you.
If you have been paying attention to the earlier post in this forum, you can see that if people don't agree with you, they will say so and most of them are way off topic or just plain rude. But there is a larger group of people who aren't some combative that I've only gotten support from. Maybe they understood? Maybe they see what I see?
Photographer
Incubi Portrait Studio
Posts: 15
Newport News, Virginia, US
Damianne wrote:
Nope, pretty sure you just posted a novel of a rant and mods keep tabs on those threads because they never turn out well, and are consequently noticing that your lack of grammar is accompanied by a disregard for rules. Sorry young lady, but spelling and grammar, which I'm more than sure my grammar is correctly measured against the likes that have posted so far. That doesn't make my point any less valid. Sorry.
(no offence to the folks who know how to put a msg together some of you should write professionally!)
Model
Jules NYC
Posts: 21617
New York, New York, US
Incubus Portrait Studio wrote:
I think you have posted the most in here so I'll address you. The message was clear; maybe you read it and didn't understand. There alot of people in here with great points of view and there were many people that inboxed me saying they agreed with me. I accept your point of view, but keep in mind this wasn't for insulting purposes, I'm much better at insulting people than that.
Ill reiterate for the initial folks that didn't get it. Please look up the word “slut shame" if you don't know what it means. I'm not going to change anyone's mind that is way on the "anti-nude" side (love whoever coined that phrase), this isn't for them. This is for the people on the fence and to reassure the models who shoot nudes that they are normal people male or females so you shouldn't "slut shame" them. If you come off on your profile directly insulting people who you think is beneath your moral high ground then this is also for you.
If you have been paying attention to the earlier post in this forum, you can see that if people don't agree with you, they will say so and most of them are way off topic or just plain rude. But there is a larger group of people who aren't some combative that I've only gotten support from. Maybe they understood? Maybe they see what I see? I mean no harm and I understand you.
Thing is you can not change core values in people but you can change one's reaction to it.
Cruelty is everywhere and open minds are rare.
I jest at all of this because it's a tired argument.
Just ignore what people say about nudes, etc.
It is what it is.
Model
Kozmina
Posts: 6536
Bakersfield, California, US
This thread is filled with *whoosh*
Photographer
Rays Fine Art
Posts: 7504
New York, New York, US
Incubus Portrait Studio wrote:
Still no one from my area of course. I guess I'll see what tomorrow brings. I'm not sure that I meet your geographic standards. I was born in Wytheville (opposite end of the state for those not familiar with the region) and grew up in several communities in Appalachia. I also lived in rural NE Pennsylvania for about ten years, so I am very familiar with the mind set. It really has nothing to do with nude modeling, or for that matter with nudity at all, in my opinion. It's more a matter of the person making those statements feeling compelled to conform to the mindset of their own social strata. It's not geography so much as it is educational level. The pattern extends not only to sexual matters but to education ("You don't need education, you only need common sense!"), religion (" insert religion here is a tool of the Devil.", "I've accepted Jesus as my savior so it's impossible for my behavior to be immoral"), Economics/employment ("Rich people are bloodsuckers/poor people are just lazy), etc. At base you are talking about a group of people who are so uncertain about their own worth and fearful of their position in the society they inhabit that they will defame almost anyone who isn't just like them. And those people exist in all communities.
I say "almost anyone" because they inevitably know someone or several someones who put the lie to the generalizations. "But that Charlie, he's really smart", "But Father Paul is so sweet and nice to everybody", "Mr. Jones is great to the folks that work for him." And so on.
It's a need to conform, really, not a need to hurt. Unfortunately the need to conform can and often does become so great that it is very hurtful indeed. Some of us in every community, North or South, Urban or Rural, find ourselves so locked in by our own inadequacies, real or imagined, that we construct a protective shell of intolerance around ourselves. Some of us are lucky enough to get out of our social prisons, either in place, by adopting our own standards in the face of condemnation by those who are more constricted, or by taking a geographic to a place where it's possible to find more people who share our own values. Which in its own way, is often nothing more than a matter of rigorously conforming to the prevailing code of noncomformity. It's a matter of mind, not of geography.
After all, is a model who will only model nude intrinsically any different from a model who always models nude? I think not, not in any meaningful way. What is meaningful is the nude model who demeans the non-nude model vs. the non-nude model who defends the right of the nude model to set her own standards, and vice-versa and the photographer who can celebrate the beauty of the clothed model as readily as he does that of the unclothed one.
Or vice-versa.
All IMHO as always, of course.
Model
Jules NYC
Posts: 21617
New York, New York, US
^^
Social prison
That's good
*the philosophical concept, not mindset that is*
Photographer
Incubi Portrait Studio
Posts: 15
Newport News, Virginia, US
Rays Fine Art wrote:
I'm not sure that I meet your geographic standards. I was born in Wytheville (opposite end of the state for those not familiar with the region) and grew up in several communities in Appalachia. I also lived in rural NE Pennsylvania for about ten years, so I am very familiar with the mind set. It really has nothing to do with nude modeling, or for that matter with nudity at all, in my opinion. It's more a matter of the person making those statements feeling compelled to conform to the mindset of their own social strata. It's not geography so much as it is educational level. The pattern extends not only to sexual matters but to education ("You don't need education, you only need common sense!"), religion (" insert religion here is a tool of the Devil.", "I've accepted Jesus as my savior so it's impossible for my behavior to be immoral"), Economics/employment ("Rich people are bloodsuckers/poor people are just lazy), etc. At base you are talking about a group of people who are so uncertain about their own worth and fearful of their position in the society they inhabit that they will defame almost anyone who isn't just like them. And those people exist in all communities.
I say "almost anyone" because they inevitably know someone or several someones who put the lie to the generalizations. "But that Charlie, he's really smart", "But Father Paul is so sweet and nice to everybody", "Mr. Jones is great to the folks that work for him." And so on.
It's a need to conform, really, not a need to hurt. Unfortunately the need to conform can and often does become so great that it is very hurtful indeed. Some of us in every community, North or South, Urban or Rural, find ourselves so locked in by our own inadequacies, real or imagined, that we construct a protective shell of intolerance around ourselves. Some of us are lucky enough to get out of our social prisons, either in place, by adopting our own standards in the face of condemnation by those who are more constricted, or by taking a geographic to a place where it's possible to find more people who share our own values. Which in its own way, is often nothing more than a matter of rigorously conforming to the prevailing code of noncomformity. It's a matter of mind, not of geography.
After all, is a model who will only model nude intrinsically any different from a model who always models nude? I think not, not in any meaningful way. What is meaningful is the nude model who demeans the non-nude model vs. the non-nude model who defends the right of the nude model to set her own standards, and vice-versa and the photographer who can celebrate the beauty of the clothed model as readily as he does that of the unclothed one.
Or vice-versa.
All IMHO as always, of course. This was a wonderful read and I rather enjoyed your take on this. I do know about Wytheville I've been through that area a few times with family and possibly your right, its about the dynamic of your mind set. (Social prison), I like that. This oddly does echo in many places in society, I just wish it didn't happen so often on here. Thank you for your input.
Model
Jules NYC
Posts: 21617
New York, New York, US
What amuses me is that on my 5 min breaks from posing nude for an art class I was reading this thread.
Model
Lisa Andresen
Posts: 8664
Abingdon, Illinois, US
I don't do nudity because of my faith it has nothing to do with me not liking my body. That is the biggest misconception out there. Women have many logical reasons behind it such as respecting their marriage, having kids and not wanting it out their for them to see, just over all dislike that style of work. It's a personal choice plain and simple it has nothing to do with being uncomfortable in ones skin.
If I wasn't a Christian or married who knows maybe I would shoot nude. Because I am comfortable in my skin. I walk around my house naked all the time. I'm open in front of my husband naked all the time. He thinks I am beautiful and so do I. Shooting nudity for the Internet to see does not base someone's confidence or self esteem level. I know nude models I don't judge them some are wonderful ladies. Some have slept around with photographers. It depends on the girl and her character clothing models do the same stuff.
As for our society being sexually repressed please! We are up to our ears in sexuality every day all day in every form of media one can think of. We have more than enough sexuality in our society.
Photographer
Cherrystone
Posts: 37171
Columbus, Ohio, US
Lisa Andresen wrote:
As for our society being sexually repressed please! We are up to our ears in sexuality every day all day in every form of Eduardo one can think of. We have more than enough sexuality in our society. You're mixing some apples & oranges there.
When politicians are crawling into and trying to control woman's bodies & vaginas, one segment of the population is trying to control other woman's bodies and the US Atty. General wants to drape classical nude statues in DC that have been there for decades.....if that ain't repressed, I don't know what is.
Photographer
Andialu
Posts: 14029
San Pedro, California, US
Lisa Andresen wrote:
I don't do nudity because of my faith it has nothing to do with me not liking my body. That is the biggest misconception out there. Women have many logical reasons behind it such as respecting their marriage, having kids and not wanting it out their for them to see, just over all dislike that style of work. It's a personal choice plain and simple it has nothing to do with being uncomfortable in ones skin.
If I wasn't a Christian or married who knows maybe I would shoot nude. Because I am comfortable in my skin. I walk around my house naked all the time. I'm open in front of my husband naked all the time. He thinks I am beautiful and so do I. Shooting nudity for the Internet to see does not base someone's confidence or self esteem level. I know nude models I don't judge them some are wonderful ladies. Some have slept around with photographers. It depends on the girl and her character clothing models do the same stuff.
As for our society being sexually repressed please! We are up to our ears in sexuality every day all day in every form of Eduardo one can think of. We have more than enough sexuality in our society. You are so right. And hypocrisy as well.
https://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/1 … 6cb6e8.jpg
Model
Lisa Andresen
Posts: 8664
Abingdon, Illinois, US
Cherrystone wrote:
You're mixing some apples & oranges there.
When politicians are crawling into and trying to control woman's bodies & vaginas, one segment of the population is trying to control other woman's bodies and the US Atty. General wants to drape classical nude statues in DC that have been there for decades.....if that ain't repressed, I don't know what is. I disagree I can not watch tv, drive down the street, go to the grocery store or anything for that matter with out ads, commercials,magazines, tv shows full of sex and sexual prevented behavior. In a society where shows like Jersey shore are popular! Are you kidding me! Porn is a billion dollar industry grossing more than all the major sporting leagues combined! No we are not sexually repressed at all we are sexual animals that are out of control!
Photographer
Andialu
Posts: 14029
San Pedro, California, US
Lisa Andresen wrote:
I disagree I can not watch tv, drive down the street, go to the grocery store or anything for that matter with out ads, commercials,magazines, tv shows full of sex and sexual prevented behavior. In a society where shows like Jersey shore are popular! Are you kidding me! Porn is a billion dollar industry grossing more than all the major sporting leagues combined! No we are not sexually repressed at all we are sexual animals that are out of control! Good thing you aren't a part of the problem.
Model
Lisa Andresen
Posts: 8664
Abingdon, Illinois, US
What the heck why did that post so many times!
Model
Lisa Andresen
Posts: 8664
Abingdon, Illinois, US
Andialu wrote:
Good thing you aren't a part of the problem. Dont even start with me I am not in the mood for your childish games grow up!
Photographer
Andialu
Posts: 14029
San Pedro, California, US
Lisa Andresen wrote:
Your just starting crap for MM my images are wayyyy mild. I look pretty every inch is covered I have makeup on big whoop that's not nudity at all. Denile isn't just a river from the big book.
Photographer
Garry k
Posts: 30128
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Photographer
Andialu
Posts: 14029
San Pedro, California, US
Lisa Andresen wrote:
Dont even start with me I am not in the mood for your childish games grow up! I'm offering an opposing point of view.
Photographer
Garry k
Posts: 30128
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Lisa Andresen wrote:
I disagree I can not watch tv, drive down the street, go to the grocery store or anything for that matter with out ads, commercials,magazines, tv shows full of sex and sexual prevented behavior. In a society where shows like Jersey shore are popular! Are you kidding me! Porn is a billion dollar industry grossing more than all the major sporting leagues combined! No we are not sexually repressed at all we are sexual animals that are out of control! I was sort of with you until ...
what is sexually prevented behavior ?
Model
Lisa Andresen
Posts: 8664
Abingdon, Illinois, US
Andialu wrote:
Denile isn't just a river from the big book. I could have a picture in a snow suit and you would find something to say! I don't even have any pictures in a swim suit! Your freakin ridiculous!
Photographer
Andialu
Posts: 14029
San Pedro, California, US
Lisa Andresen wrote:
I could have a picture in a snow suit and you would find something to say! I don't even have any pictures in a swim suit! Your freakin ridiculous! So, showing skin is the only way to convey sexuality?
ETA: Freakin' means fucking. So you called me fucking ridiculous. Great Christian values. 
Model
Lisa Andresen
Posts: 8664
Abingdon, Illinois, US
Garry k wrote:
I was sort of with you until ...
what is sexually prevented behavior ? Jersey shore have you heard the way they talk or how they treat women? How they make it look cool to get wasted and sleep with random strangers all summer long. That is what we have making money on tv right now. Don't even get me started on Honey Boo Boo!
Photographer
Garry k
Posts: 30128
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Lisa Andresen wrote:
I could have a picture in a snow suit and you would find something to say! I don't even have any pictures in a swim suit! Your freakin ridiculous! Well there is always those that would say
You were naked under your clothes were'nt you ?
Photographer
Garry k
Posts: 30128
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Lisa Andresen wrote:
Jersey shore have you heard the way they talk or how they treat women? How they make it look cool to get wasted and sleep with random strangers all summer long. That is what we have making money on tv right now. Don't even get me started on Honey Boo Boo! sorry I dont watch tv and have never seen that show
so does the term "sexually prevented behavior " mean that their sexuality prevents them from acting normal like in other aspects of their lives ?
Model
Lisa Andresen
Posts: 8664
Abingdon, Illinois, US
Garry k wrote:
sorry I dont watch tv and have never seen that show
so does the term "sexually prevented behavior " mean that their sexuality prevents them from acting normal like in other aspects of their lives ? I have no idea it could all be a thing for tv. But we have a problem at least in my generation with boys/men seeing women as pieces of meat. We have a problem with girls/ women not having enough self respect to say no. Sex is everywhere today and it means nothing to most these days it's just something we do.
I just went to PCB for Spring Break on a mission trip and the stuff you see down there would shock you! I saw girls on the beach drinking out of buckets with their hands begins their backs while the guys yelled "drink it like a dog get down and drink it like a dog take your top off and drink it like a dog". But they craved that attention so much they didn't even see how degrading it was.
Photographer
Cherrystone
Posts: 37171
Columbus, Ohio, US
Lisa Andresen wrote:
I disagree I can not watch tv, drive down the street, go to the grocery store or anything for that matter with out ads, commercials,magazines, tv shows full of sex and sexual prevented behavior. In a society where shows like Jersey shore are popular! Are you kidding me! Porn is a billion dollar industry grossing more than all the major sporting leagues combined! No we are not sexually repressed at all we are sexual animals that are out of control! The govt. that runs us....not to mention many of the yahoos that elect them.... is very repressesed and in the dark ages in so many levels. So too are antiquated "sex laws" that still manage to be in the books, and are selectively prosecuted. What Madison Ave & Hollywood feeds us is a different matter.
A 16 yr old texts a nude picture of themselves to their BF/GF, and they're prosecuted as a sex offender? From their own picture? No common sense.
I mean, my God if I felt like giving this more thought, which I don't, I could go on all night long.
Think about this....in my lifetime, you could cut off a womans breast with a chainsaw in a movie and it would get an R rating, but if it was tenderly caressed or kissed, OOPS that's an X.
How the strains of Puritanism have survived almost 400 yrs. in this country is beyond me.
Model
Lisa Andresen
Posts: 8664
Abingdon, Illinois, US
Cherrystone wrote:
The govt. that runs us....not to mention many of the yahoos that elect them.... is very repressesed and in the dark ages in so many levels. So too are antiquated "sex laws" that still manage to be in the books, and are selectively prosecuted. What Madison Ave & Hollywood feeds us is a different matter.
A 16 yr old texts a nude picture of themselves to their BF/GF, and they're prosecuted as a sex offender? From their own picture? No common sense.
I mean, my God if I felt like giving this more thought, which I don't, I could go on all night long.
Think about this....in my lifetime, you could cut off a womans breast with a chainsaw in a movie and it would get an R rating, but if it was tenderly caressed or kissed, OOPS that's an X.
How the strains of Puritanism have survived almost 400 yrs. in this country is beyond me. The fact that 16 and younger aged kids are texting nude photos back and forth is proof enough we are not sexually repressed.
Sex runs rampant in our society. I am not talking about matters of birth control or abortion or any of that. The morality concerning sex is very low and the welcoming of sex in all media is very high that's a bad combination if you ask me.
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