Forums > General Industry > When an excort turns out to be a great thing

Photographer

MCPHOTO

Posts: 732

Duvall, Washington, US

Had a photo shoot over the weekend and the model brought a friend. I took photos of both of them. One of them has never modeled before.
http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/130408/08/5162de3de89bb_m.jpg

http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/130408/08/5162de6929d05_m.jpg

Apr 08 13 08:18 am Link

Photographer

Naughty Ties

Posts: 3156

Riverview, Florida, US

The model didn't bring an escort, she brought a friend who wasn't there to protect said model, big difference.

That being said nice pics, looks like you got lucky with a bonus girl.

Apr 08 13 08:32 am Link

Photographer

FredSugar

Posts: 217

Dallas, Texas, US

I've shot several models who were the "llama herders" of the scheduled model.  A couple of them I ended up working with more than the person they were "llama herdering".

Apr 08 13 08:34 am Link

Photographer

DarrylPascoePhotography

Posts: 477

Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Naughty Ties wrote:
The model didn't bring an escort, she brought a friend who wasn't there to protect said model, big difference.

That being said nice pics, looks like you got lucky with a bonus girl.

Anyone that accompanies another person to any location escorts them so yep she was an escort. In some instances a person accompanies another for "protection" sometimes not, they are all escorts none the less.

Apr 08 13 08:37 am Link

Photographer

Good Egg Productions

Posts: 15718

Orlando, Florida, US

DarrylPascoePhotography wrote:

Anyone that accompanies another person to any location escorts them so yep she was an escort. In some instances a person accompanies another for "protection" sometimes not, they are all escorts none the less.

Truth.

One of the most disruptive, annoying and rude escorts I've ever encountered was a girl friend of the model. It was so bad that I had to straight up tell the woman if she didn't stop running the shoot, it would be over.  She actually took the hint and left to get a coffee for two hours.

Apr 08 13 08:50 am Link

Photographer

KonstantKarma

Posts: 2513

Hickory, North Carolina, US

I like to force escorts to dig the holes in the woods for both their bodies. They can really save a lot of manual labor!

http://twinfamy.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/drevilmrbigglesworth.jpg

Apr 08 13 08:56 am Link

Photographer

ontherocks

Posts: 22615

Salem, Oregon, US

i've shot the bonus girl several times myself. maybe a different shoot from what was originally planned but i've learned to just go with the flow on trade shoots.

Apr 08 13 09:05 am Link

Photographer

Orca Bay Images

Posts: 32234

Woodinville, Washington, US

Good Egg Productions wrote:
One of the most disruptive, annoying and rude escorts I've ever encountered was a girl friend of the model. It was so bad that I had to straight up tell the woman if she didn't stop running the shoot, it would be over.  She actually took the hint and left to get a coffee for two hours.

Hey, that worked out.

The most annoying, disruptive escort I ever dealt with was a senior portrait subject's morbidly obese older sister. Every time I'd take a shot, the sister shouted, whistled, clapped, and tried any way to make the girl laugh or just break mood. She never did take the hint. When I asked her to stop, she decided the shoot was over. And the shoot was over.

Apr 08 13 09:07 am Link

Photographer

Orca Bay Images

Posts: 32234

Woodinville, Washington, US

I shot with one model at her family's home and she had her 14yo sister there to watch the shoot. The model asked if I'd take a few shots of the sister. The girl was gorgeous and was a natural talent. I ended up getting more shots -- and better shots -- of the little sister and the model never spoke to me again.

Apr 08 13 09:11 am Link

Photographer

SG-4 Photography

Posts: 120

Washington, District of Columbia, US

That was no escort.  That was a stroke of good luck.  ;-)

Apr 08 13 09:41 am Link

Photographer

MCPHOTO

Posts: 732

Duvall, Washington, US

Yeah It was great. I got so many good photos of them together and the non model.The non model is the one in my avatar with her back kinda to me.

Apr 08 13 10:15 am Link

Photographer

Naughty Ties

Posts: 3156

Riverview, Florida, US

DarrylPascoePhotography wrote:

Anyone that accompanies another person to any location escorts them so yep she was an escort. In some instances a person accompanies another for "protection" sometimes not, they are all escorts none the less.

Couldn't disagree more. An escort serves a purpose and that is to protect the model and ensure her safety as opposed to someone who is tagging along just for the fun of it and to kill time during the day. When I go to the store with my wife I'm not escorting I'm along for the ride and this is what it seems was the OP's lucky case. Just being at a shoot doesn't make you an escort in my book, that's an "official" job and this doesn't fit that description.

Apples and oranges to me but either way he damn sure got lucky!   smile

End hijack.....lol

Apr 08 13 10:36 am Link

Photographer

DarrylPascoePhotography

Posts: 477

Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Naughty Ties wrote:
Couldn't disagree more. An escort serves a purpose and that is to protect the model and ensure her safety as opposed to someone who is tagging along just for the fun of it and to kill time during the day. When I go to the store with my wife I'm not escorting I'm along for the ride and this is what it seems was the OP's lucky case. Just being at a shoot doesn't make you an escort in my book, that's an "official" job and this doesn't fit that description.

Apples and oranges to me but either way he damn sure got lucky!   smile

End hijack.....lol

We will have to agree to disagree then as all you have done is given YOUR definition and assumption of what ALL escorts purposes are. To prove my point if a model said to you... hey can my bf tag along just for fun and to kill time during the day.....how many photographers here would say no I don't allow escorts. Every date a couple ever goes on is a situation where one is being escorted. Thankfully that is not a situation where most would argue the date is on security detail work.

I guess any model that wanted an escort to a shoot just has to lie about the purpose of the person coming. You cant prove that in her mind its for her protection that's an assumption of yours. So in your opinion unless a model actually comes out and says...I am bringing an escort "for my protection" they are A okay by you. smile   I have a feeling most here would still call the guy an escort.

Apr 08 13 10:59 am Link

Photographer

Image K

Posts: 23374

Las Vegas, Nevada, US

DarrylPascoePhotography wrote:
Anyone that accompanies another person to any location escorts them so yep she was an escort. In some instances a person accompanies another for "protection" sometimes not, they are all escorts none the less.

They are not considered an escort if they are not there for purposes of security.

It's a commonly accepted definition among photographers. It doesn't surprise me that you have your own definition, and like to play semantics.

Apr 08 13 11:44 am Link

Photographer

LMJ Photo

Posts: 208

Chicago, Illinois, US

So apparently, that's the difference between an escort and an "excort". The excort is a stroke-of-luck friend who becomes an extra model, and an escort is a PITA. LOL!

Apr 08 13 11:56 am Link

Photographer

Will Snizek Photography

Posts: 1387

Beckley, West Virginia, US

MCPHOTO wrote:
Yeah It was great. I got so many good photos of them together and the non model.The non model is the one in my avatar with her back kinda to me.

She's not really a non model anymore.

Apr 08 13 11:59 am Link

Photographer

AJ_In_Atlanta

Posts: 12835

Atlanta, Georgia, US

Its great that things worked out for you.  Myself I am very picky about the look I want to shoot and its highly doubtful a model will have a friend who also has true model looks.  So I will continue with the no extras policy on set, its busy enough.

Apr 08 13 12:08 pm Link

Photographer

John Jebbia

Posts: 27614

Phoenix, Arizona, US

I think your attention should be on the model you booked. Not figuring out ways to get her friend too.

Apr 08 13 12:10 pm Link

Photographer

DarrylPascoePhotography

Posts: 477

Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Image K wrote:
They are not considered an escort if they are not there for purposes of security.

It's a commonly accepted definition among photographers. It doesn't surprise me that you have your own definition, and like to play semantics.

I am fully aware of the definition among some photographers, and I will ask you the same question as I asked the poster above.....

if a photographer and a model are discussing a shoot and the model says I like to have my bf come to shoots with me. Do you call that an escort?

At this point you have no idea why and its only an assumption that its for security. Upon stating to her that you do not allow escorts and if she doesn't trust you she shouldn't go to the shoot she says oh I trust you just fine hes not there for my protection he just likes to come to all my shoots and I like having him come with, we find it fun and gives him something to do throughout the day. Is she still asking to bring an "escort"?

With the amount of escort threads I constantly end up seeing here with the complaints of models bringing a bf or any guy for that matter though I don't remember seeing every single one of them specifically saying the model said they wanted to bring them for their protection. I wonder how many here would still call it an escort even if not brought for protection. I would bet money that a photographer that has a "no escort" policy is going to still call any guy the model is bringing with her an escort despite the reason she's bringing them to the shoot. With that my point stands.


edit... also yes absolutely its a common dictionary definition of escort the way you describe it , I never said it wasnt, its just not the only definition.

Apr 08 13 12:16 pm Link

Photographer

Jhono Bashian

Posts: 2432

Cleveland, Ohio, US

LMJ Photo wrote:
So apparently, that's the difference between an escort and an "excort". The excort is a stroke-of-luck friend who becomes an extra model, and an escort is a PITA. LOL!

LOL...  some time you just get lucky

Apr 08 13 12:22 pm Link

Photographer

Herman Surkis

Posts: 8868

Victoria, British Columbia, Canada

When the escort is better looking then the model.

Apr 08 13 12:22 pm Link

Photographer

Herman Surkis

Posts: 8868

Victoria, British Columbia, Canada

John Jebbia wrote:
I think your attention should be on the model you booked. Not figuring out ways to get her friend too.

Really does depend on 'how' you want to get her friend.

Apr 08 13 12:24 pm Link

Photographer

Dan Howell

Posts: 2329

New York, New York, US

Image K wrote:

They are not considered an escort if they are not there for purposes of security.

It's a commonly accepted definition among photographers. It doesn't surprise me that you have your own definition, and like to play semantics.

Bullshit.

So by your definition, a mother couldn't escort a child or teen model. Or a more experienced model could not escort a beginning model.

It's laughable that you and the other poster want to apply an 'official', as he puts it, definition of escort. You accuse another poster of playing semantics. I would say you might want to look up the word myopic.

Apr 08 13 12:26 pm Link

Photographer

J O H N A L L A N

Posts: 10327

Santa Ana, California, US

AJScalzitti wrote:
Its great that things worked out for you.  Myself I am very picky about the look I want to shoot and its highly doubtful a model will have a friend who also has true model looks.  So I will continue with the no extras policy on set, its busy enough.

This exactly ^^^. I think the OP's kind of thing (except on extremely rare occasions - not enough to be persuasive), happens more to photographers who just want to shoot any old pretty girl.

Apr 08 13 12:29 pm Link

Photographer

Image K

Posts: 23374

Las Vegas, Nevada, US

Dan Howell wrote:

Bullshit.

So by your definition, a mother couldn't escort a child or teen model. Or a more experienced model could not escort a beginning model.

No, by my definition, a mother that escorts her child, or a more experienced model escorting a new model, is doing so for security...and thus would fit the commonly accepted definition.

Dan Howell wrote:
It's laughable that you and the other poster want to apply an 'official', as he puts it, definition of escort. You accuse another poster of playing semantics. I would say you might want to look up the word myopic.

Easy, cowboy.

Not trying to apply anything "official" to anything. The reason that escorts are such a hot topic is that people try to define it different ways.

It's laughable that you think that it's only "me and the other poster" that applies the commonly-accepted definition.

Put your dictionary away, and do a search of the topic "escort", and you will learn something.

Apr 08 13 12:38 pm Link

Photographer

Sedition

Posts: 273

Buffalo, New York, US

Same thing happened to me!
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/320086_10151451736792562_882189243_n.jpg

Apr 08 13 12:43 pm Link

Photographer

DarrylPascoePhotography

Posts: 477

Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Image K wrote:
No, by my definition, a mother that escorts her child, or a more experienced model escorting a new model, is doing so for security...and thus would fit the commonly accepted definition.

You didn't answer my question.....if a model brings a male with her, her bf whatever, and it has nothing to do with being there for her protection, she is perfectly fine with the photographer, feeling safe etc etc, and she says she just wants to bring them as mentioned above, they like to watch or just for fun, because they both enjoy being there all that stuff pick whatever the reason other then for protection of any kind....is it still an escort? and would a photographer that had a no escort policy allow this person now because as I said...has nothing to do with security reasons for them being there at all. So by your definition....they aren't an escort right?

or what if a model wants to bring another female model just to watch her pose so she can help her later whatever, or help her with that on breaks or whatever having nothing to do with protection its for their own personal reasons separate from anything to do with security.... is it still an escort?

Apr 08 13 12:52 pm Link

Photographer

Image Works Photography

Posts: 2890

Orlando, Florida, US

MCPHOTO wrote:
Had a photo shoot over the weekend and the model brought a friend. I took photos of both of them. One of them has never modeled before.
http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/130408/08/5162de3de89bb_m.jpg

http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/130408/08/5162de6929d05_m.jpg

I had a few of those. Its a bonus!

Apr 08 13 10:16 pm Link

Photographer

Patrick Walberg

Posts: 42743

Salinas, California, US

Naughty Ties wrote:
The model didn't bring an escort, she brought a friend who wasn't there to protect said model, big difference.

That being said nice pics, looks like you got lucky with a bonus girl.

Yes, I've had some fabulous shoots with the people that either the primary model or myself have invited to attend. 
It's been how I've gotten some great couples shots and met potential new models to work with in the future.

Apr 09 13 12:35 am Link

Photographer

Patrick Walberg

Posts: 42743

Salinas, California, US

John Jebbia wrote:
I think your attention should be on the model you booked. Not figuring out ways to get her friend too.

If it's a TF shoot, then what does it hurt?

To models asking if they can bring girlfriends who wants to try out modeling;

http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/061011/13/452d37c891768_m.jpg http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/070511/01/464402dce8e0b_m.jpg

http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/061010/02/452b4bcfeb4e8_m.jpg http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/061121/04/4562d9e1d2057_m.jpg

To a rap artist friend who let me use his recording studio for as shoot;

http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/071001/03/47009f66b47f2_m.jpg


To this one of the MUA's baby with model Veronica while her friend (MUA) went to the bathroom; 

http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/050524/01/4292cc49ad589_m.jpg

And I have a ton more of couples shot because we all wanted to.  I'd really hate to have missed out on those images!

Now IF I am getting paid, OR paying the models, I do pay attention.  It's just that I enjoy doing a lot of TFP because I never know what might happen.  Everyone of the people that have attended photo shoots that I do are people I've met in advance or at least talked with previous to shooting them.   My shoots are for "invited guests" and sometimes a party breaks out!   What can I say?  tongue

Apr 09 13 12:57 am Link

Photographer

MichaelClements

Posts: 1739

Adelaide, South Australia, Australia

Looks like the models mother...

Apr 09 13 01:12 am Link

Model

Isis22

Posts: 2575

Muncie, Indiana, US

Well, this doesn't look like a spontaneous "escort" shoot to me. The models are wearing matching clothes!

Apr 09 13 06:18 am Link

Photographer

Michael DBA Expressions

Posts: 3196

Lynchburg, Virginia, US

Image K wrote:
They are not considered an escort if they are not there for purposes of security.

It's a commonly accepted definition among photographers. It doesn't surprise me that you have your own definition, and like to play semantics.

Not in my neck of the woods. Those are called "body guards."

I would like to suggest to you that there are sometimes differences in the way some words and expressions are used and have meaning, differences that are regional and sometimes differences just from one person to another. And I'd also like to suggest that believing that your own personal experience defines the entire universe for all other sentient beings is an arrogant, irrational, and potentially dangerous attitude to take. A wiser course is to listen and learn.

Apr 09 13 06:28 am Link

Model

Caitin Bre

Posts: 2248

Naperville, Illinois, US

Naughty Ties wrote:
The model didn't bring an llama herder, she brought a friend who wasn't there to protect said model, big difference.

That being said nice pics, looks like you got lucky with a bonus girl.

How do you know that? He said llama herder. Female llama herders can be very protective and as capable as male llama herders to protect a model.
BTW My companion has been asked to model when he showed up with me. And one time he ended up published on a website that I wasn't and he is not a model. These comments drive me nuts.

Apr 09 13 06:37 am Link

Photographer

L Cowles Photography

Posts: 833

Corona, California, US

Orca Bay Images wrote:
I shot with one model at her family's home and she had her 14yo sister there to watch the shoot. The model asked if I'd take a few shots of the sister. The girl was gorgeous and was a natural talent. I ended up getting more shots -- and better shots -- of the little sister and the model never spoke to me again.

I know the feeling.  I have my own rule that if a model brings a friend, I don't shoot the friend on that shoot.  I will schedule a shoot at another time.  Too often it works out the friend is better than the model you are shooting.  It's not fair to the model you are currently working with to divide the time.

Apr 09 13 06:43 am Link

Photographer

BlueMoonPics

Posts: 4436

New York, New York, US

L Cowles Photography wrote:

I know the feeling.  I have my own rule that if a model brings a friend, I don't shoot the friend on that shoot.  I will schedule a shoot at another time.  Too often it works out the friend is better than the model you are shooting.  It's not fair to the model you are currently working with to divide the time.

This happened to me last year.  Model brought her friend along to the shoot.
I wound up dividing my time between both of them, which I didn't like doing, but it turned out OK though.

This was her "escort" friend...
http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/120512/19/4faf15d65024b_m.jpg

Apr 09 13 06:57 am Link

Photographer

Sleepy Weasel

Posts: 4643

Castle Rock, Colorado, US

John Jebbia wrote:
I think your attention should be on the model you booked. Not figuring out ways to get her friend too.

But what if the friend is hotter than the model you booked?  wink

Apr 09 13 06:59 am Link

Photographer

DougBPhoto

Posts: 38589

Portland, Oregon, US

BlueMoonPics wrote:

This happened to me last year.  Model brought her friend along to the shoot.
I wound up dividing my time between both of them, which I didn't like doing, but it turned out OK though.

This was her "escort" friend...
http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/120512/19/4faf15d65024b_m.jpg

I'm feeling a bit more convinced about it sometimes being a good thing wink

Apr 09 13 10:54 am Link

Photographer

MCPHOTO

Posts: 732

Duvall, Washington, US

I supplied the outfits and wasn't sure what would fit.

Isis22 wrote:
Well, this doesn't look like a spontaneous "escort" shoot to me. The models are wearing matching clothes!

Apr 09 13 01:09 pm Link

Photographer

Michael Fryd

Posts: 3893

Miami Beach, Florida, US

Naughty Ties wrote:

Couldn't disagree more. An escort serves a purpose and that is to protect the model and ensure her safety as opposed to someone who is tagging along just for the fun of it and to kill time during the day. When I go to the store with my wife I'm not escorting I'm along for the ride and this is what it seems was the OP's lucky case. Just being at a shoot doesn't make you an escort in my book, that's an "official" job and this doesn't fit that description.

Apples and oranges to me but either way he damn sure got lucky!   smile

End hijack.....lol

No, an escort gives the model the "feeling" of security, without actually providing any.  This is bad because a model may rely on the escort, rather than do a rudimentary check to make sure the person claiming to have a camera is actually a photographer.

In practice, the escort serves the purpose of making a single homicide a double homicide.

If someone is willing to kill the model, they can start by shooting the escort.

Apr 10 13 08:03 am Link