Forums > General Industry > I actually hate meeting for tea to discuss a shoot

Model

Wynd Mulysa

Posts: 8619

Berkeley, California, US

For what it's worth, I do.  My schedule is pretty crazy and I try hard to schedule every shoot I can.  Taking 30 minutes out of my day to meet with a new photographer to have tea somewhere kind of seems pointless and like I could be doing something more efficient with my time.  What could be said over tea that couldn't be said over email or the phone?  I understand that the photographer may want to make sure I actually look like I do in my portfolio, or get a feel of my personality...  But could he just check my references and talk to me on the phone?

A long time ago, photographers would meet up with me with a printed portfolio.  That was the day.  But now, with so many photos online, I don't need to see a printed portfolio to know if I want to work with someone.  I have already agreed to work with them by that point, anyway.

So..  Who likes meeting in person pre-shoot and why?  Do you think it's actually necessary?

Apr 19 13 07:53 am Link

Model

-Titania-

Posts: 11969

Pocatello, Idaho, US

I hate it. It always feels like they're trying to get me to go on a date with them, and then even if I reluctantly agree to meet up, it never actually results in a shoot being booked. Major waste of my time.

Apr 19 13 07:55 am Link

Photographer

SME

Posts: 21121

Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, US

I actually didn't know this was something photographers ever suggested.  I thought it was more the domain of models who want to get a feel for the photographer before booking a shoot.

Apr 19 13 07:55 am Link

Photographer

Cherrystone

Posts: 36859

Columbus, Ohio, US

Wynd Mulysa wrote:
So..  Who likes meeting in person pre-shoot and why?  Do you think it's actually necessary?

If I do meet someone, they are local, & what I consider to be newbs. Doesn't happen very often anymore.

Apr 19 13 08:00 am Link

Model

_bri_

Posts: 285

OTTSVILLE, Pennsylvania, US

I actually agree with you. I don't see much a point in having a "pre shoot meeting" with a photographer. I guess it's good to see if you would actually be compatible with each other and whatnot, but I think most things can be determined through email or phone. If someone ends up not being who they claim to be once the shoot day comes, then the photographer has the choice whether or not they want to go through with it, I would think (though I guess there are times when they just go with it anyway) People have busy schedules anymore, so a lot of the time having a meeting before the shoot date just isn't possible.
If a photographer wanted to meet up before a shoot date, I wouldn't necessarily reject, but with my limited time schedule I just don't think it'd be possible.

Apr 19 13 08:02 am Link

Photographer

David Kirk

Posts: 4511

Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

I don't typically suggest meeting with a model to discuss a shoot, but have had models suggest/require it.  I actually enjoy meeting up to discuss a shoot and find that face to face discussion is better than by email/phone, but I rarely have time to do it.  The vast majority of my shoots are done without any pre-shoot meetings or even phone calls - typically just a few MM messages and emails.

Apr 19 13 08:04 am Link

Photographer

ontherocks

Posts: 22723

Salem, Oregon, US

we like to have pre-shoot meeting with our paying customers. check out what they look like, discuss possible locations, ideas they have for the shoot, review their wardrobe, make wardrobe suggestions, etc. the meeting helps us plan out the locations and/or scenes we will set up in the studio.

but we rarely do that with models. hard enough to get them to show up for one event, much less two. i think only one model has ever requested a pre-shoot meeting where she and her husband came to the house and checked us out and went through our props and came up for some ideas for the shoot.

sometimes models send me example images before the shoot (or bring them to the shoot).

anything that helps result in better pictures is good as far as i'm concerned so i'd be open to more pre-shoot meetings (the model can drop by the studio if they like and we can brainstorm ideas).

Apr 19 13 08:06 am Link

Photographer

Justin Suyama

Posts: 113

Seattle, Washington, US

Pre-"meeting" should be at formal castings or even tests, not private sit-downs over tea and crumpets (or pastries). If a photographer wants to know what a model looks like, ask for a pic taken without make-up on, that day.

Apr 19 13 08:06 am Link

guide forum

Photographer

PashaPhoto

Posts: 9726

Brooklyn, New York, US

Sita Mae wrote:
I actually didn't know this was something photographers ever suggested.  I thought it was more the domain of models who want to get a feel for the photographer before booking a shoot.

oh, you'll be surprised...

i deal with a lot of photographers at my shootouts, and get to talk to all of them, and i'm telling you  - there is a whole "school" out there that thinks these pre-shoot meets are a must, or they they won't even consider booking the model...

i never understood it personally... i'd rather just spend that time shooting and actually  ,you know, "testing" the model... but.........

Apr 19 13 08:07 am Link

Photographer

Don Garrett

Posts: 4473

Escondido, California, US

I haven't done it for a while, but it was fun when I did. I seldom discussed the shoot at all during these lunch sessions, but I did bring in some prints. I suppose it is because I am proud of my work, and take any opportunity to show it. This was more often done with "models" I met on the street, or through an ad I put in the local college newspaper. It seems that most of the MM models are "down to business". Which is OK with me, All I really want is to get some photos that I feel good about.
  It is not a big issue to me in any case !
-Don

Apr 19 13 08:08 am Link

Photographer

Orca Bay Images

Posts: 32340

Woodinville, Washington, US

Sita Mae wrote:
I actually didn't know this was something photographers ever suggested.  I thought it was more the domain of models who want to get a feel for the photographer before booking a shoot.

That's been my experience. And usually the model is an hour or more away and she expects me to drive to her for the pre-shoot meetup.

Apr 19 13 08:09 am Link

Model

Axioma

Posts: 6795

Gent, East Flanders, Belgium

It has to be said, inevitably.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_me9l7mfF511rxwarf.gif

Apr 19 13 08:17 am Link

Photographer

Loki Studio

Posts: 3041

Royal Oak, Michigan, US

Models meetings are essential because planing avoids bad shoots.  If the model does not look like her photos or her measurements. is unreliable, or does not have the clothes for the concepts, then I can avoid much wasted efforts by my team.  I have been burned before with unknown models for client shoots and I won't make that mistake again.

Apr 19 13 08:22 am Link

Photographer

nyk fury

Posts: 2918

Port Townsend, Washington, US

how about coffee?

Apr 19 13 08:24 am Link

Photographer

M Pandolfo Photography

Posts: 12116

Tampa, Florida, US

I like to schedule an initial meeting to discuss the pre-shoot meeting we're going to have before the test shoot.

This reminds me of an Ad Agency I worked at for a while out of college. I swear they would have meetings and all that would be discussed was the next meeting and what was going to be discussed.

I thought I was in the Twilight Zone. Or was it Outer Limits?

Apr 19 13 08:30 am Link

guide forum

Photographer

Robb Mann

Posts: 10804

Baltimore, Maryland, US

I would only do it if I was trying to book a new model for a workshop and my comfort level with them wasn't high. Of course, in all likelihood I'd just find a new model in that particular case.

Its hard enough to find time to shoot. Why meet for coffee or tea when you could just be shooting instead?

Apr 19 13 08:33 am Link

Photographer

Mike Adams Photos

Posts: 1217

Cleveland, Ohio, US

Cherrystone wrote:

If I do meet someone, they are local, & what I consider to be newbs. Doesn't happen very often anymore.

+1

Apr 19 13 08:37 am Link

Photographer

Farenell Photography

Posts: 18176

Albany, New York, US

Wynd Mulysa wrote:
What could be said over tea that couldn't be said over email or the phone?  I understand that the photographer may want to make sure I actually look like I do in my portfolio, or get a feel of my personality...  But could he just check my references and talk to me on the phone?

A long time ago, photographers would meet up with me with a printed portfolio.  That was the day.  But now, with so many photos online, I don't need to see a printed portfolio to know if I want to work with someone.  I have already agreed to work with them by that point, anyway.

So..  Who likes meeting in person pre-shoot and why?  Do you think it's actually necessary?

Though I'm not a person that "needs" to meet every single model I work with, I can understand those who do.

1. Its not about what can or can not be said at such meetings. Its often about how the person looks. Unfortuntely A LOT of model ports are so altered in Photoshop or is so out-of-date that they look nothing like they do in person.

2. Body language also doesn't translate over the phone & is hard to read over Skype.

3. Responsibility can also be revealing. Like if a person is 30-minutes late & doesn't give you a headsup or something, it could be an indicator that they're a high-risk investment (especially if a team is trying to be put together).

If the preshoot meeting is an issue, all I can say is explain your situation with the photographer in question. They may be understanding about it or they may truly feel its essential. In which case you'll have to evaluate whether said opportunity (both the preshoot meeting as well as the shoot itself) will in the end be worth it.

Apr 19 13 08:40 am Link

Photographer

BlueMoonPics

Posts: 4451

New York, New York, US

I've done it a handful of times especially in the beginning of being here on MM.  I only offer to meet now if they are truly local in my town.  I was surprised though that one time the model initiated the idea of meeting with me first.  It was a good meeting.

Apr 19 13 08:44 am Link

Photographer

Carle Photography

Posts: 9227

Oakland, California, US

Coffee today = a job tomorrow is actually the title of a networking class I taught last year.
I can see the value of a coffee/tea meet.

If you're traveling will be back in the area later set up a bunch of coffee meetings to network with people to hire you for your NEXT trip.

Interviewing for a long term job, such as a 6 shoot project.

Staying in touch with a good past client that will hire you again.

These above are longer projects and future plannings.




Meeting up for coffee should not be necessary for local/small/simple jobs.

To give it a monetary scale, if you're paying me 500.00+ then yes I'll take the time for an interview, if you're paying me 100.0 then no, I have another job to get to.
smile

Apr 19 13 08:46 am Link

Photographer

Carle Photography

Posts: 9227

Oakland, California, US

Sita Mae wrote:
I actually didn't know this was something photographers ever suggested.  I thought it was more the domain of models who want to get a feel for the photographer before booking a shoot.

There is a guy in the bay area who used to make models come to an "interview, coffee" and then never hire them, for over a decade....Nothing changed in his portfolio, he never actually hired anyone....just coffee...

Apr 19 13 08:48 am Link

Photographer

Gallery-MG

Posts: 83

Arlington, Virginia, US

Never felt the need to have such a meeting; I tend to work only with established models with good reputations.  Clear written communication for the win!

If a model did request to meet beforehand it would have to be around my schedule.

Apr 19 13 08:56 am Link

Photographer

SME

Posts: 21121

Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, US

Just when I think I'm finally hip to all the ways in which random creepers practice their creeping on models, I find out something new.  lol

-Titania- wrote:
I hate it. It always feels like they're trying to get me to go on a date with them, and then even if I reluctantly agree to meet up, it never actually results in a shoot being booked. Major waste of my time.

Death of Field wrote:

There is a guy in the bay area who used to make models come to an "interview, coffee" and then never hire them, for over a decade....Nothing changed in his portfolio, he never actually hired anyone....just coffee...

Apr 19 13 08:59 am Link

Model

The Original Sin

Posts: 13894

Louisville, Kentucky, US

I don't like preshoot meetings for a couple of reasons- time being one of them.  When I was modeling full-time, I just didn't have the time, I was usually either on the road traveling or had other shoots booked that I had to get to, and I was cramming housework and kids in around the edges of my shooting schedule.  Now that I'm not modeling full-time, I've got kids and housework and sick in-laws to get to doctors.  Time is always at a premium.

If we're going to do a meet-up, why not just do a meet-up of all the local models/photographers for drinks or coffee somewhere, everyone gets a chance to mingle and chat, and if shoots come out of it, so be it.

Apr 19 13 09:03 am Link

Model

Danielle Reid

Posts: 4419

Little Rock, Arkansas, US

I wouldn't mind it if I actually got booked for a paid shoot. So far the photographers I've met at StarBucks (always Star Bucks, is there no other meeting place?) never really intend on hiring me for paid work or its just for trade. Not like I'm a busy girl but still why meet when we have phones with face to face calling?

Apr 19 13 09:12 am Link

Model

Julia Francesca

Posts: 2376

Maumee, Ohio, US

WASTE OF TIME, i usually just tell them no thank you if the only way they will shoot me is if they can interview me first. i mean, i appreciate the free coffee/food but ain't nobody got time for that.

Apr 19 13 09:16 am Link

Photographer

dd photography

Posts: 932

San Diego, California, US

When the model is into it as well ... it enhances the creative process and excitement over the shoot. Concepts are explored, further developed and sometimes scratched. We start to develop the vibe and makes shoot day more comfortable and relaxed.

Apr 19 13 09:17 am Link

Model

Anna Kl

Posts: 189

Toronto, Ontario, Canada

-Titania- wrote:
I hate it. It always feels like they're trying to get me to go on a date with them, and then even if I reluctantly agree to meet up, it never actually results in a shoot being booked. Major waste of my time.

jesus christ , yes

Apr 19 13 09:18 am Link

Photographer

M Pandolfo Photography

Posts: 12116

Tampa, Florida, US

Sita Mae wrote:
Just when I think I'm finally hip to all the ways in which random creepers practice their creeping on models, I find out something new.  lol

The guy setting up fake interviews reminds me of those "Casting Couch" sites that advertise for Female Models/Actresses and set up and videotape the  interviews for jobs that don't exist.

Although he just sounds like a lonely guy who got off on having coffee with attractive females.

Apr 19 13 09:18 am Link

Photographer

M Pandolfo Photography

Posts: 12116

Tampa, Florida, US

-Titania- wrote:
I hate it. It always feels like they're trying to get me to go on a date with them, and then even if I reluctantly agree to meet up, it never actually results in a shoot being booked. Major waste of my time.

I've only had one pre-shoot meeting ever and it was years ago at the request of the model. I felt the same way. I could feel her eyes undressing me the entire time and I just wanted to say, "take a picture it will last longer." I knew the only reason she requested that meeting was because she wanted a taste of my manchowder.

I'm just so tired of every damn model I work with wanting to fuck me because I am just so out-of-this-world hot. It really is quite exhausting to constantly have to fend off these lonely models.

It just makes me feel so cheap and I'm suspicious of everyone because I know they all want me.

Apr 19 13 09:22 am Link

Photographer

C s p i n e

Posts: 3953

Portland, Oregon, US

I can see meeting up for coffee if it's going to be an important shoot and you just want to make sure about the model, the most of the time it isn't needed. Bring coffee to the shoot though, breve mocha please.

Apr 19 13 09:25 am Link

Model

Dekilah

Posts: 4890

Detroit, Michigan, US

I used to do those meetings back in my first year or two of modeling in TN. At first, I just thought it was what you did because a lot of photographers asked about it. In some cases I do think it was beneficial. I was new and I did not have the best port, and in a couple cases I was supplying wardrobe for a very specific concept and they wanted to see that. If I had to guess I would say my height factored in as well since all I heard (and sometimes still hear) is "You don't look that short in photos."

Also I was poor and free lunch was nice (only if they offered though, I would never ask). And I had transportation at that point pretty much any time, and although I had another part time job, I had the free time.

Now I have hundreds of good references, a pretty good port, and very little free time. And my fiance would drive me if I asked, I am sure, but we are usually very busy and taking two hours or more out of our day for a meeting for what would likely be a TF shoot that may not happen for a variety of reasons (including my own chronic pain issues) is just not very productive.

Thankfully, no one around here really asks for pre-shoot meetings. Most of them either know me or know of me at least.

Apr 19 13 09:31 am Link

Photographer

KonstantKarma

Posts: 2513

Hickory, North Carolina, US

Aspiring models or newbs ask me for that all the time.  I guess they think it's normal, and they want to see if I'm a serial killer or whatever in a public place before going back to my lair. 

I don't have the time or energy for these meetings, and more often than not, they don't end up in shoots - We do make plans and discuss concepts, but life gets in the way, they're not really interested in modelling (and I'm not really interested in shooting them) and it just never happens.

Apr 19 13 09:37 am Link

Photographer

B R U N E S C I

Posts: 25319

Bath, England, United Kingdom

Almost completely pointless and a massive waste of my time.

I've never done it - if a model has a look I want to shoot then she can turn up at my studio on the day 15 minutes early and we'll have a cup of tea then.

I always offer models a cuppa anyway, but at the shoot not at some lame-assed 'meet and greet' nonsense!




Just my $0.02

Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

Apr 19 13 09:39 am Link

Photographer

the lonely photographer

Posts: 1888

Beverly Hills, California, US

M Pandolfo Photography wrote:

I've only had one pre-shoot meeting ever and it was years ago at the request of the model. I felt the same way. I could feel her eyes undressing me the entire time and I just wanted to say, "take a picture it will last longer." I knew the only reason she requested that meeting was because she wanted a taste of my manchowder.

I'm just so tired of every damn model I work with wanting to fuck me because I am just so out-of-this-world hot. It really is quite exhausting to constantly have to fend off these lonely models.

It just makes me feel so cheap and I'm suspicious of everyone because I know they all want me.

Apr 19 13 09:41 am Link

Photographer

the lonely photographer

Posts: 1888

Beverly Hills, California, US

M Pandolfo Photography wrote:
I've only had one pre-shoot meeting ever and it was years ago at the request of the model. I felt the same way. I could feel her eyes undressing me the entire time and I just wanted to say, "take a picture it will last longer." I knew the only reason she requested that meeting was because she wanted a taste of my manchowder.

I'm just so tired of every damn model I work with wanting to fuck me because I am just so out-of-this-world hot. It really is quite exhausting to constantly have to fend off these lonely models.

It just makes me feel so cheap and I'm suspicious of everyone because I know they all want me.

if I'm I paying for lunch. Why should they complain

Apr 19 13 09:41 am Link

Photographer

the lonely photographer

Posts: 1888

Beverly Hills, California, US

M Pandolfo Photography wrote:
I've only had one pre-shoot meeting ever and it was years ago at the request of the model. I felt the same way. I could feel her eyes undressing me the entire time and I just wanted to say, "take a picture it will last longer." I knew the only reason she requested that meeting was because she wanted a taste of my manchowder.

I'm just so tired of every damn model I work with wanting to fuck me because I am just so out-of-this-world hot. It really is quite exhausting to constantly have to fend off these lonely models.

It just makes me feel so cheap and I'm suspicious of everyone because I know they all want me.

Lol exactly how I see it.

Apr 19 13 09:41 am Link

Photographer

Karl Barbosa Photo

Posts: 49

Montreal, Quebec, Canada

Personally, I don't require it, but I generally prefer it. If not in person, then it's still nice to chat on the phone for a few minutes.

I want to get a sense of a model's personality and presence. A lot of times, I like to cater shoots to the model ... find a particular style or emotion that I know he or she can pull off well. If I meet a model and I see she's very straight and serious, I wouldn't want to have her in a shoot running through a field of flowers for example.

But all of this is dependent on time and capability to do so. I wouldn't expect someone far away to meet me in advance.

Apr 19 13 09:44 am Link

Photographer

AgX

Posts: 1286

Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US

Traveling and very experienced models aside, I do this for local models each and every time before booking; it’s a part of my vetting procedure. It includes a mixture of digital images on a laptop and darkroom prints. My own experience tells me that people who don’t have the time/are late to/cancel a preshoot meeting are much more likely to cancel late/flake altogether a booked shoot. In my experience, shoots following a meeting yield better photographs than those without more often than not, and at the end of the day, that's all I really care about. Not absolute and not every time, but I’ve seen a trend and I use that information for my planning.

Following a preshoot meeting, I’ve decided to not shoot with individuals; we weren’t on the same page despite previous communication. Others may have similarly declined shooting with me. All perfectly acceptable and preferable, as shoot time is precious and film’s expensive. For me, a relatively small investment of time is worth it.

Like most things on MM (or in life) there isn’t a universally right or wrong answer. I rarely understand the global “it’s absolutely necessary” or “it’s a complete waste of time” proclamations. It might be necessary for you, or a waste of your time, but that doesn’t make it so for everyone. You might do what works best for you, and leave others to their own devices.

Apr 19 13 09:53 am Link

Photographer

John Jebbia

Posts: 27630

Phoenix, Arizona, US

If you want the job, you'll do what's required to get it. If you won't, someone else will.

Perhaps this is the reason so many misunderstandings happen on MM.

Apr 19 13 09:55 am Link