Forums > Digital Art and Retouching > Beauty retoucher - reading a make up.

Photographer

sbourson

Posts: 559

Paris, Île-de-France, France

here's a little photo retouching missed for me, just for the discussion, the right is a nice touch but missed a photo. make beauty is a photograph and not make out a nice picture of anything. Read makeup is the first priority and then touch.

if you want to be beauty retoucher, your work is too use the texture of skin improve it , and improve the subject who is texture and MAKE UP. read the make up is the most important thinks in the world.

http://www.sbourson.com/mm/bef-olivia-5351.jpg

May 04 13 12:43 am Link

Retoucher

bobbydolan

Posts: 168

Boston, Massachusetts, US

+1

May 05 13 07:16 am Link

Retoucher

Najan

Posts: 89

Poitiers, Poitou-Charentes, France

Bonjour Stéfan,
Si je comprends bien, vous considérez la retouche comme étant ratée ? Pas de retouche colorimétrique donc mais simplement un embellissement cutané aurait été préférable ?

May 07 13 10:41 am Link

Retoucher

Lidia Stolyarova

Posts: 71

Kiev, Kiev, Ukraine

I'd add also that there is no need to do something only because you can do it.
Otherwise what's the point to invite MUA on shooting, if his/her work will be destroyed...

May 07 13 11:54 am Link

Photographer

sbourson

Posts: 559

Paris, Île-de-France, France

Najan wrote:
Bonjour Stéfan,
Si je comprends bien, vous considérez la retouche comme étant ratée ? Pas de retouche colorimétrique donc mais simplement un embellissement cutané aurait été préférable ?

oui la retouche est raté car c'est une bouche en dégradé au coeur transformé en une bouche uniforme. La beauté c'est photographier un make up et l'embellir

May 15 13 01:43 am Link

Retoucher

Mike Needham Retouching

Posts: 369

Cheltenham, England, United Kingdom

I don't know where other retouchers particularly stand on this, but to me there is an acceptable level of retouch on beauty images (this in my opinion does not reflect on all images other than beauty or photojournalism), there is an accepted level of realism that we all work to and going beyond that is a no no.

The lips on this image stand out to me, the line of the lips look false, we can all see that it look unnatural, but we can't all see why. I feel this is the case for a lot of retouches, it all comes back to the 'art' of the retoucher, lips don't have a perfect line and factors such as age and lets say smoking don't reflect that (or just plain reality).

Having said that, I have dodged and burned to hell various images, that could in all probability have undergone a less severe treatment, but the market (photographer/agency) expect that level of incongruity, so it is done. Separating the differences is obviously the key to a high level of competence and or success.

Changing colour of the make-up is a tough call, to the photographer it's a crime, to the retoucher that realises he can and it will look better, it's a non sequitur. Does that make it right? Only the enlightened can work out the differences, but adverts/reality do not make that distinction.

Retouching takes on a whole new genre of 'expertise' when addressing these issues, some ignore the conventions, whilst others maintain them.

All in all, it's a sticky subject that allows practitioners the freedom to choose, whilst missing the stated objectives. Make of it what you will.

May 15 13 06:12 am Link

Retoucher

pixel dimension ilusion

Posts: 1355

Brussels, Brussels, Belgium

free retouches r like that , quality retouches cost money they not for free

May 15 13 10:33 am Link

Retoucher

Mike Needham Retouching

Posts: 369

Cheltenham, England, United Kingdom

pixel dimension ilusion wrote:
free retouches r like that , quality retouches cost money they not for free

Not at all, whenever I undertake TFP work, the file is retouched in the same manner with the same detail as any paid work. Professionalism is providing the same attention to detail to an unpaid project as you would to a paid assignment.

May 16 13 03:15 am Link

Photographer

Darren Green

Posts: 1374

Nottingham, England, United Kingdom

What isn't  really being considered here (ONLY IN MY OPINION) is that when images are posted here in a 'have a go' manner by the photographers then the re-touchers that are using the images as practice or on a TFP arrangement should be given carte blanche to 're-touch' or alter the image as they see fit as after all it is a demonstration of the re-touchers work.

If you (the photographer) just want retouching to stay as true to the original image as possible then you need to make this clear in the beginning, however you may find less re-touchers wanting to do basic re-touches.

Re-touching / digital art is after all an expression.  You can't jump on a retoucher just for wanting to demonstrate their skills and interpretations!

Just my opinions!

Peace to al

May 16 13 04:03 am Link

Photographer

S K E L E T O N K E Y

Posts: 2110

Louth, England, United Kingdom

Darren Green wrote:
What isn't  really being considered here (ONLY IN MY OPINION) is that when images are posted here in a 'have a go' manner by the photographers then the re-touchers that are using the images as practice or on a TFP arrangement should be given carte blanche to 're-touch' or alter the image as they see fit as after all it is a demonstration of the re-touchers work.

If you (the photographer) just want retouching to stay as true to the original image as possible then you need to make this clear in the beginning, however you may find less re-touchers wanting to do basic re-touches.

Re-touching / digital art is after all an expression.  You can't jump on a retoucher just for wanting to demonstrate their skills and interpretations!

Just my opinions!

Peace to al

Agreed.

If you don't want "creative" retouching and alternative techniques, then don't post your images on the forum. Stefan I notice you do like to critique allot of the retouchers work on your threads, which I won't say I disagree on but certainly you shouldn't be making a spectacle of those retouchers in a public forum where unsolicated critiques are against the rules.

If you wanted your images to only be retouched cleanly and magazine ready then source those retouchers, and don't have a go at the retouchers here who aren't at that level.

May 16 13 05:06 am Link

Makeup Artist

ArtistryImage

Posts: 2832

Washington, District of Columbia, US

Mike Needham Retouching wrote:
I don't know where other retouchers particularly stand on this, but to me there is an acceptable level of retouch on beauty images (this in my opinion does not reflect on all images other than beauty or photojournalism), there is an accepted level of realism that we all work to and going beyond that is a no no.

The lips on this image stand out to me, the line of the lips look false, we can all see that it look unnatural, but we can't all see why...

+1  I see this issue all too frequently... please if you are going to rendering beauty understand the anatomy of the face, k?  The instant you destroy the lip's Labial i.e. "white" Roll the image is trash...  would advise studying the marketing literature for plastic surgeons who specialize in rebuilding lips, it will greatly facilitate your understand of what is involved...

Since I was not the client on this image my reflections are only germane to that of make-up artistry... beauty is in the eyes of the checkbook holder... this is an absolute...

Mike Needham Retouching wrote:
Professionalism is providing the same attention to detail to an unpaid project as you would to a paid assignment.

Tenured wisdom... on the commercial side of the equation your perceived worth is based upon your worst image... the sooner one gets their head around this the more likely they will prosper within the industry...

all the best on your journey...

May 16 13 02:58 pm Link

Retoucher

Mike Needham Retouching

Posts: 369

Cheltenham, England, United Kingdom

Tenured wisdom... on the commercial side of the equation your perceived worth is based upon your worst image... the sooner one gets their head around this the more likely they will prosper within the industry...

Stark truth, not always easily digestible, but I appreciate it.

May 16 13 03:14 pm Link

Photographer

sbourson

Posts: 559

Paris, Île-de-France, France

Mike Needham Retouching wrote:
I don't know where other retouchers particularly stand on this, but to me there is an acceptable level of retouch on beauty images (this in my opinion does not reflect on all images other than beauty or photojournalism), there is an accepted level of realism that we all work to and going beyond that is a no no.

The lips on this image stand out to me, the line of the lips look false, we can all see that it look unnatural, but we can't all see why. I feel this is the case for a lot of retouches, it all comes back to the 'art' of the retoucher, lips don't have a perfect line and factors such as age and lets say smoking don't reflect that (or just plain reality).

Having said that, I have dodged and burned to hell various images, that could in all probability have undergone a less severe treatment, but the market (photographer/agency) expect that level of incongruity, so it is done. Separating the differences is obviously the key to a high level of competence and or success.

Changing colour of the make-up is a tough call, to the photographer it's a crime, to the retoucher that realises he can and it will look better, it's a non sequitur. Does that make it right? Only the enlightened can work out the differences, but adverts/reality do not make that distinction.

Retouching takes on a whole new genre of 'expertise' when addressing these issues, some ignore the conventions, whilst others maintain them.

All in all, it's a sticky subject that allows practitioners the freedom to choose, whilst missing the stated objectives. Make of it what you will.

MIke you write , really good, it's really what i want to explain ... retouching beauty picture is understand first , the make-up work, the hair work, and the light.

May 18 13 02:09 am Link

Photographer

sbourson

Posts: 559

Paris, Île-de-France, France

pixel dimension ilusion wrote:
free retouches r like that , quality retouches cost money they not for free

it's stupid answer ! FREE or NOT  it's the same ...

Me i work many time for FREE, because when i'm PAID, i don't explain my mind, i do what my client ask me :
i don't work WITH my make up , hair artist, retouch ... I JUST EXPLAIN THEM WHAT MY CLIENT PAID FOR. You do what CLIENT WORK.

it's why we do PERSONAL RECHERCH :
1 - CLIENT WILL NEVER ASK YOU TO DO WHAT YOU NEVER DONE
2 - IT'S NOT WHEN THE CLIENT PAY YOU THAT YOU TEST LIGHT, MUA ...
3 - YOU DON'T PAY UNKNOW RETOUCHER TO RETOUCH YOUR BIG ADVERTISING WORK
4 - I'M ADVERTISING PHOTOGRAPHER, I DO 5 BIG JOB YEAR .. and EDITORIAL DON'T PAY AND ASK YOU A LOT BUT THAT MAKE CLIENT LIKE YOU

May 18 13 02:14 am Link