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parents vs modeling
Hey guys, I need an ear to listen to me. This is me ranting, I admit, but this really has me riled up. Warning, kinda long ^^; ~~~ I'm 19 years old. My parents are both heavy christians (my mom Greek Orthodox and my father is a methodist). I am the 2nd child (adopted), my older brother is 11 years older than myself and living on his own with his wife. he was born from my mother (don't know how else to word that xD). Anyway, I've been modeling seriously for the past 3 years or so. I'm wanting to extend the genres I do into more "risque" type genres (avant guarde, implied nudity, lingerie, etc). However, my parents being the way they are (in their 60s) scream at anything of the sort, especially my mother. This has been one of those things I've been butting heads with them. I'm an artist at heart, so I see all of these more "risque" things as just another form of art. I view the human body as a beautiful creation and as such, should be performed, fashioned, etc... in such a way to show the beauty of the individual. With this being said, there's an avant guarde styled photoshoot on may 22. I wanted to wear a sleeveless/strapless lime green dress I wore for prom, but stylize it so it looks more like a victorian-period dress, rather than the plain-ness that it is (still a pretty dress). I wanted to tease my hair, and make it a jumbled mess with simmery/dark grey eye shadow and my really dark purple lipstick (maybe some blush too, dunno). However, my dad will be out of town on said day. My mom doesn't like the place (despite how it is extremely well professionally run, it's a free photoshoot, and I'm going to know majority of the photographers already there). I told her there was a photographer I've known for about 2 years now and have a great relationship with (we've had a few photoshoots, my mom has met him as well and likes him) would be willing to give me a ride, since it's on the way to the photoshoot. She still says no. I can not drive myself there because my parents don't feel comfortable with me being on the interstate on my own. I really think she doesn't want me there "alone" because she's afraid I might do something she doesn't like. This is a REAL thorn in my side because this is MY artwork I'm creating. At the risk of sounding like a completely selfish douchebag/child, I love modeling and as I said earlier, want to expand my port into some of the more risque stuff. I want to push the limit slightly, despite my parents chewing down my neck for such images. Not to mention, this is MY art I'm creating. I'm 19 years old and can't be coddled forever! My boyfriend (who will be 23 in 2 months) enjoys watching me model. I told him I might be able to go to this shoot and he said he'd love to go with me, if I could. Now, this means a LOT to me. He's often camera-shy, so to have practically professional level photos of me and him would be TOTALLY AWESOME in couple-type photo :3 I'd love to move out, but as of now, I'm going to college (it's about....16k tuition with the scholarship I'm on that I can hopefully keep all four years I'm there). Plus, job availability in the small/almost middle of nowhere town I'm in is close to now. I've been talking with local art galleries to try to sell some of my artwork too (and other photographers to try to sell some of the fantasy design props I make in my free time), but it's just difficult with how the economy now is with everything. Most places looking for employees in my area want associate degree in (x) =/ May 07 13 03:23 pm Link Find a way to move out of your parents home and take control of your life  May 07 13 03:26 pm Link I'd love to move out, but as of now, I'm going to college (it's about....16k tuition with the scholarship I'm on that I can hopefully keep all four years I'm there). Plus, job availability in the small/almost middle of nowhere town I'm in is close to now. I've been talking with local art galleries to try to sell some of my artwork too (and other photographers to try to sell some of the fantasy design props I make in my free time), but it's just difficult with how the economy now is with everything. Most places looking for employees in my area want associate degree in (x) =/ May 07 13 03:34 pm Link The risk you run whenever you live in someone else's house is having to abide by their rules and that's the fact whether you're 9 or 19. I don't know you personally so I'd be uncomfortable advising you to simply move out without thinking about the pros and cons but you obviously realize that the type of modeling you want to do and what your parents will approve of will likely always exist as a point of contention so it's a consideration you're going to need to make sooner rather than later. In the interim you may want to introduce some of the imagery to your parents slowly e.g. when you use words like risque people will naturally infer their own definitions e.g. I assumed you were prepping to shoot something entirely different from the images you describe wanting to shoot next. It's possible that a similar disconnect is going on when you describe the shoot to your parents and perhaps in seeing something similar they'll relax a little. It's not a guarantee but the possibility it there. Also (and you may have already done this) try communicating your desires to model with them at a calm point and/or invite them to a shoot with a photographer who'll allow it. These are all small steps but they can go a long way... May 07 13 03:40 pm Link +1 to what Tiffany said above. I know it is a very difficult position to be in conflict with your parents. However, as long as you live in their home and they provide support such as college tuition, out of respect you should try to abide by their rules. If it is really important to you to pursue modelling, then you have to find a way to financially support yourself and move out. Then you can do as you choose, although it will still be at great risk of offending their views and opinions. Anything at all that you can do to show them there is beauty and art in the modelling you are involved with should show them that you are sensible and intelligent and capable of making good decisions. But if you force the issue you risk making things worse. May 07 13 03:41 pm Link Living there or not, you ARE legally an adult. You don't really have to ask mom's permission. I know how it is; I was in basically the same spot at age 19. Don't be rude, but do stand up for yourself. Politely inform your mother that you are going to a shoot, and yes, that you know you will be safe. Unfortunately, with some people (and, I assume, your parents, since they sound like mine), the only thing you can do is extract yourself from the situation, however painful or inconvenient. May 07 13 03:43 pm Link My mom is the type to scream at any artistic nudity (it's all porn to her =/). I don't think I'm ever going to get her to see eye-to-eye on THAT subject, but I might have a chance at the other subjects (lingerie is also a BIG maybe). I'm going to not bring the subject up again until tomorrow and hopefully I can talk her into the shoot. I didn't mention that I already knew majority of the photographers going to the shoot (and i suspect I'll also know a good portion of the models if it's the usual crowd at the studio the shoot will take place at). May 07 13 03:48 pm Link Saedcantas wrote: I didn't even ready the entire first paragraph....+100 end of story May 07 13 03:55 pm Link Having raised my children under the Iron heel of fundamentalism, I faced the dilemma of what to allow and what to squash. the need to protect and direct your children is overwhelming in a 'religious" household. One of my children became a minister and the other sowed all the wild oats. I finally realized that for all the fencing and rules I did not change the destiny of my children from what was inside of them. Now I accept both of my children equally. If you confront your parents with your intentions, how far do your think they will go to restrain you? that is the question. Can you survive the battle? Best wishes. May 07 13 03:55 pm Link Synster Veronica wrote: As a photographer, parent and former counselor you have to make some decisions. Is your family important to you, or are you staying simply because they will fork out the money to help you cover your college costs. If they are important to you that raises other issues. Methodists and Greek Orthodox are not what I would consider conservative religions or denominations, so their objects are most likely not tied to their religious beliefs, but rather to how they fear these actions will effect your future. May 07 13 03:56 pm Link Synster Veronica wrote: Greek Orthodox, means modeling will take you to hell. Do not pass GO, do not collect $200. A women's hair is evil. The rest of the body is worse. May 07 13 03:56 pm Link Sounds like it's time to leave the nest. Seems like you already know how to tread the path between creativity and making your parents proud. Seems like out of everyone you mentioned, you are the one experienced in modelling, not your mum, not your boyfriend, I'd say carry on making your own decisions. May 07 13 04:00 pm Link Leonard Gee Photography wrote: haha xD May 07 13 04:01 pm Link Synster Veronica wrote: So your parents (adoptive) are simply a means of paying for you schooling. You need to move out, it's wrong to simply stay and use their love for you to extort money from them as you blatantly go against their beliefs and fears for you. May 07 13 04:09 pm Link It appears that you have answered your own question multiple times by stating the high cost of college and your inability to provide for yourself if you were to move out. Living with parents, requires some loss of freedom even though you are an adult. It is there home and some rules have to be respected if that is there wish. It is tough growing up, becoming an adult but trust me, the grass is not always greener on the other side the fence. Finish college living with your parents and shoot what you can. May 07 13 04:09 pm Link I do not envy your position. You are not likely to change your mothers views, nor what you want to do. Add in you are financially dependent on them. Which is more important to you-Family or modeling. Either choice has consequences. My advice is to put the modeling on its present path, leaving the more adult modeling to when you are on your own...and make plans to make that happen ASAP after you get your degree. May 07 13 04:18 pm Link Synster Veronica wrote: That's really cool! I admire anyone that can draw anatomy pictures! You are young, and will move out soon as you can. Renting a room, or applying for grants, and loans are possible even if you don't think so at this time. It does get better! Your relationship with your parents might improve once you've moved out, and then it might not ... but by then, it wont matter. Best wishes to you! May 07 13 04:50 pm Link It seems that modeling is something you do for enjoyment, so my suggestion would be to stick to those gigs/events that your parents can agree with you on. While you may wish to do more risque work, the thing is that it won't make your life better the way that school will. Focus on school, do the occasional fun shoot for artistic release, and enjoy your family for the last couple years you are home. Once you are truly on your own, and out of college, you can explore art more and should have more free time to do so than you should during school. I know that 23 years old seems like an eternity at your age, but it will go by quickly and you've got a lot of life left to find enjoyment as a model in any genre you choose at that point. May 07 13 04:58 pm Link Patrick Walberg wrote: Are you suggesting that family doesn't matter? That one should just go his or her own way and to hell with family, if they don't like what you do than give em the finger and do it anyway. May 07 13 05:18 pm Link Sounds like my parents, except that mine have finally started allowing me to go places alone (not shoots yet, but I'm working on it). I wasn't allowed to leave the house alone till this month, and still have to text constantly when I'm out to let her know I'm not dead or something. All I can say is think about what you want to say and sit them down to have a talk about your freedom. And if they start to yell, don't yell back. Keep your cool and be the mature one in the room. Also, as for the christian part, the body is your temple, respect it - you're glorifying your temple by doing artistic nudes :-{D That's my view. May 07 13 05:26 pm Link It looks like you want to have your cake and eat it too, as long as you live with your parents you know very well that you will have to follow their rules and if you move out with your boyfriend if his not workingu then your supporting him your bills and your self and school. To me it seems your best beat is to stay home go to school learn and get your degree and if and when you turn 21 and are almost finished with your education you can get back into modeling and do what you wish to do. Beats being alone and no education and no modeling May 07 13 05:30 pm Link Synster Veronica wrote: Family is your life. Family is what life is all about. These people in here, if they don't care about their families they are very lonely people. Your parents love you. They want the best for you. Listening to a bunch of people in here, that you know nothing about (including me) is just ridiculous. If you want to be a "big girl" make a "big girl" decision and do what you want, do it, but don't ask people in here to figure it out for you. Go to a friend. Go to another family member. Go to someone you respect. May 07 13 05:32 pm Link I am catholic and there is an amazing amount of nudity in its art, been that way for centuries. But obviously your parents think differently and facts probably won't help, you only choice is to move out or not do it; its really that simple. May 07 13 05:32 pm Link I'm not going to bring up the shoot again tonight. I'm going to try again tomorrow evening and see if I can talk my mom into it by going about it a different method. May 07 13 05:40 pm Link David Nelson Photograph wrote: I don't think that Patrick was suggesting that family doesn't matter, just attempting to put into perspective that while a strained relationship may or may not improve once the OP has moved out that once she has she'll essentially be free to do as she pleases with or without their approval as she will no longer be reliant on them. May 07 13 05:46 pm Link I don't really have any advice for you, I'm sorry  I just popped in to say that this thread has made me realise how incredibly lucky I am in my family. I think I'll call my Nan and Dad tomorrow and say thanks for them being so cool Though I can't help you, I wish you the best and hope you find whatever solution is best for you soon May 07 13 06:01 pm Link David Nelson Photograph wrote: Giving in to the wishes of your parents over the pursuit of your own happiness is more likely to lead to unhappiness. Tom Hanks went against his family's wishes by pursuing acting rather than going into the family tradition of working at restaurants. May 07 13 07:44 pm Link I still go through this and I am 24 lol. I totally understand where you are coming from, but at 19 you are a young lady, and a legal adult. Do they have to know what you are wearing? I don't know the details but why not pack along a trendy dress that covers, say you will be wearing that, and go about your business? Its hard to say because I am unsure if they are accompanying you to these shoots or if they ask to see pictures after the fact. Maybe have your boyfriend snap a pic backstage of you more covered up, show that to them and say you are awaiting the edited pics and then after some time say you just really didnt like any and would prefer not to share. This was my method for a long time with my super strict parents when I lived with them. Good luck and just remember that you have to do what makes you happy, limiting yourself will just lead to a life of regret, take it from me. May 07 13 07:58 pm Link Good Luck...! May 07 13 08:07 pm Link Patrick Walberg wrote: It is not about giving in, it's about respect. When you live a privileged life the least you can do is respect the people that made sure you had that life. May 07 13 08:38 pm Link Give up on family who have raised and supported you for 20 years, who pay your way through school, Whom you are currently completely dependent on now. for a hobby you just started. Swap out "modeling" and replace it with "golf" or "paintball" Same scenario. Kinda stupid isn't it? If you were independent, at least you could make stupid decisions and it'd be up to you. But it sounds to me though like it's unlikely you're in the position to ....so..what can you do right? Tell your boyfriend to get a good job and then you could move in with him?  May 07 13 08:46 pm Link As a father of four (my 3rd, daughter, is 19) I am on the other end of this. She’s not modeling, but in the same position you are. She lives at home, goes to University full time. We pay for her school and she doesn’t worry about room and board. That’s been our deal with all of our kids. Go to school. Get good grades – I’ll pay for it. When my kids have come to me, once an adult, and have an adult conversation with me, I have immediate respect. I may not like the decision and will talk with them about the pros and cons. I always have their best interest at heart, even when they don’t agree with my views or I theirs. If my daughter were modeling and came to me stating she wanted to pose nude, I would have some concerns. Mainly as it would absolutely effect her career once out of college. And second, while there are a lot of great photographers that are very professional, there are bad apples as well. These are the guys that would concern just about every father. And she doesn't have the life experience to always know the difference. Now, I tell my kids the same thing my father told me. Family is important. Over anyone else. One day you are going to die. Someone’s going to dig a hole and throw you in it. Looking up as you’re being buried, the people that will be there will be your family. With what you’ve laid out you’ll likely not change their mind but I can tell you a few things. For us, being a parent is that of a coach. Our home and our conversations are the practice field – preparing them for the game of life. Talking through decisions to help ensure they don’t make the wrong ones (and they will, just as we all have) My suggestion. Sit down, have an adult conversation with them. Talk through it with them. Let them know this is something that is important to you. Listen to their input. Consider it, thank them for listening and providing input to help you make your decision. Then make it. Own it. And be accountable for it (this doesn’t just apply to this decision). A few things you might consider - Modeling is a short lived career. Are you serious about it? Or is it an artistic outlet. Photography is my outlet – there is little chance I could make the kind of money I do in this field. But it is a passion. - Think hard on these genre – they are not evil or bad. But once you open the box there’s no shutting it. - Will this have an impact on the career you are choosing There is one thing to remember. your family will always be on your side. They may not agree and even get upset with your decisions. But they have your best interests in mind. And they will be the ones that stand by you when everyone else bails on you. May 07 13 08:48 pm Link Patrick Walberg wrote: The issue isn't giving in to her parents over the pursuit of her own happiness, as everyone has to make his or her own way in life, but that's not what the issue is here. When one becomes an adult and is living independently then one can do what he/she wants and the thoughtful person would keep those activites ones loved ones object to discrete. May 07 13 09:49 pm Link You're 19. Tell your parents you care about them, but their right to dictate your actions ended a year+ ago. They can care, they can worry, they can express their concerns and ask you to listen, but they can't tell you no and they can't blackmail you. If they can't live with that, they need to grow up and face reality. Stand up to them now, or spend the rest of your life living for their satisfaction and not yours. May 07 13 10:00 pm Link Synster Veronica wrote: Do you have any idea what it takes to become an MI? First, there are only 5 accredited schools in the US. Admission requires a 4 year undergraduate degree, an extensive portfolio of drawings (non medical) and an acceptable GRE score. So, if your undergrad GPA is acceptable and your GRE is high enough and your portfolio is acceptable than you are eligible to apply and once you apply your chances for being accepted is 1 in 5. Most MIs do not find steady and spend most of their time submitting illustrations in the hope the recipient will purchase those illustrations. The best money and most freedom is found in teaching MI at an accredited school. May 07 13 10:05 pm Link Rachel-Elise wrote: See, and that's basically how I see it too. There's a difference between living reasonable rules of the household and living your own, adult life. Your parents can ask you not to bring people over, or to do dishes and help around the house. They cannot, however, dictate what you do on your own time outside of the home. Period. I never, ever would let my parents get away with that, but I'm a very independent spirit, so I also moved out when I was 17. Don't get me wrong, I respect my parents, but if they're treating you like you're a child, then they obviously don't have the respect they should have for you in return. May 07 13 10:43 pm Link Synster Veronica wrote: These sound like more personal choices that you want to do than, you wanting to be a professional llama..... May 07 13 11:07 pm Link moving out is always an option. Maybe not a fun option or a nice option or an option that involves a roof over your head, but unless your parents have chained you to the floor, there is always a way. Depends on how much you want it. Now, sounds to me you like being home (besides the whole modeling and overly religious thing). Nothing wrong with that. Staying or leaving is not a black-and-white situation (in most cases), you're in a grey area. You want to leave, but at the same time you also have benefits from staying home, yet home is not so awesome. It's a circle. If you are staying, I think you should follow your parent's rules. You live under their rooftop, they have financial and emotional responsibility over you. You either stay and follow their rules, or you go. That being said, I think any parent faces the challenge of redefining their relationship with their kids once they are adult, even if they are still living at home. While I do think your mother still has the right to ask you to follow her rules if you live with her, she should also not still treat you the same way when you were 5. That is where I would go with this; try and come up with a way where you can live with them, as an adult, and live by their rules, but at the same time see how and if those rules should be adapted now that you are not a child anymore. Also: patience. I know some things seem like a huge deal right now... But you're not looking to be an agency fashion model. Your age is of less importance. If avoiding trouble means you hold off on the "risque" stuff for another year or 2, that is not the end of the world either. May 08 13 01:10 am Link |
