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Models who expect more images from the session.
So you shot TF* with aspiring llamas and after the shoot you give them from 3 up to 10 images (Let's be honest, 10 photos is a lot). But the llama show her surprise saying "How about the other images?" despite the fact that you have said you would deliver only the best images of from the shoot. And it seems that most of those who complain will be unhappy with you because of it. What do you do, or what would you do, in this case? I was thinking about get 3 of the worst images, the ones I know the llama will be very unhappy with, and send to them after they ask for more photos. And say to them "I have plenty of these ones if you want more". Just to see if they can understand like this. What is your experience with theses llamas? Marcio Faustino Marcio Faustino - Traditional Prints Are you an aspiring llama? Jul 11 13 02:27 am Link *tap dances in* I'd re-explain to her the original agreement. You never know, she may like the worst images you took and use them everywhere. *tap dances out* Jul 11 13 02:32 am Link Marciofs wrote: I copy & paste the part from our messages stating what I give in the way of photos before we agreed to shoot. Jul 11 13 02:45 am Link Did you agree to more than 10 beforehand? If not, then 10 is plenty. Tell her she can pay for retouching if she wants any more - that should end the discussion  Just my $0.02 Ciao Stefano www.stefanobrunesci.com Jul 11 13 02:46 am Link Marciofs wrote: This is your fatal flaw. Next time, don't say what you are going to do, rather put everything in writing and there will be no confusion. Jul 11 13 02:49 am Link I actually have suggested aspiring models to sign a agreement but it seems to scare them as if I wore planting a kind of scam. Specially models I don't find MM but from add I put in notice walls and papers. Even after the shoot it seems to be a problem for some so I have presented the papers when I meet them to give the prints and CD. Last girls I shot seems to avoid me when I writing to her telling that I am waiting her to confirm when she wants to get her prints and CD. Since I told her about the release. Jul 11 13 02:54 am Link Marciofs wrote: Maybe best to have your release signed before the shooting. If they don't sign ... no shooting. Jul 11 13 03:02 am Link Images by MR wrote: This is what I am going to do from now, after this last experience. It is the way it has to be anyway. Jul 11 13 03:05 am Link Get use to it. You are going to see more and more of this. Paying customer ask to to the whole shoot, do you say no? Models, Make Up Artist, Hair Stylist and Stylist all see things differently. I use to think it would hurt business. But now I see it for what it is a good picture that us seen by more people leading to more business. Keep Snapping, Travis Jul 11 13 03:53 am Link Marciofs wrote: The new models will go for the "10 only", as they don't know what to ask for yet, but the experienced models and the ones who do a lot of modeling, will not. You might just want to keep working with the newbie models, who don't know anything yet. Jul 11 13 04:10 am Link Remember when we handed a contact sheet out with the entire film? Do the same now. Give them low resolution pictures with a hug watermark. I am a bad photographer but make a living shooting girls. They like being in front of a camera and I shoot up to 100 pictures. I let them do with them what they want. They use them on Facebook with the watermark and tell their friends look me up and this generates automatically more money. The Money is what counts and f... the copyright and usage. Those flicks have no value for me and never will. Think about it! Jul 11 13 04:15 am Link Fun City Photo wrote: It is a sarcasm isn't it? Jul 11 13 04:38 am Link It's managing expectations, I think. I always tell a model when we're arranging the shoot how many shots he or she can expect and I always err on the conservative side, too, just in case there aren't that many good shots for whatever reason. Jul 11 13 04:39 am Link A: Our agreement was for X amount of finished images . . . B: Oh but I want . . . A: Edits beyond this are $ this much . . . Jul 11 13 04:54 am Link It is a sarcasm isn't it? No it is not. I have about 100 background and a script inserts 30 different pictures into 30 different backgrounds. another script puts the info which I call watermark always 98% from top on the left side on the background, it also puts the remaining plain pictures into one folder. Jul 11 13 05:05 am Link Marciofs wrote: Who says you know what the best images are? Jul 11 13 05:50 am Link I think it only fair for the model to get to select the photos she wants just like any other client. On line services like Zenfolio, Smugmug etc. are great for this. If they want more than agreed upon you can charge or compromise as you see fit. Jul 11 13 06:17 am Link The number of images the model receives is discussed and agreed to BEFORE the shoot, not after, and documented in an agreement that the model signs before the shoot starts. Pricing is also included for additional images. Jul 11 13 06:24 am Link With me, the model release is always signed prior to shooting. The model gets port-res copies of all the images I feel are worth my time to edit...could be 10 or could be 50...just depends on the shoot. I never talk about a specific number. I personally don't care what they do with them after I hand them over. If they can find a way to make money off the pics in a way that I can't, I say more power to them. Now if they wanted full-res copies, that would be a different matter... Jul 11 13 07:15 am Link Mikey McMichaels wrote: I am the creator so I know what is the best on what I want to archive. The model is just a collaborator who agree to be part of the project in exchange for the result I wanted to archive only. Jul 11 13 07:32 am Link Grin Without a Cat wrote: I agree with you and I give the full resolution to print at 11x14 to model after the sign the release with no charge at all. And I don't care if they print and make money with it as far as it is not used to sell or be associated with companies product, religion or political campaign. Jul 11 13 07:39 am Link Mikey McMichaels wrote: The model should not have agreed to test/trade with a photographer if he/she does believe the photographer can deliver a product worthy of going in her portfolio, and that includes her liking the photographers ability to select and edit images based on what is in HIS portfolio before they agree to shoot. Jul 11 13 07:51 am Link Great customer service is about setting expectations and meeting them on schedule. You should be 100% clear before the shoot starts about how many images the model will get and how they will be selected. Confirm all terms of the shoot-including the number of photos- verbally before the shoot starts and you will have very few issues. I let my clients and test models pick their own final images from an online SmugMug gallery to let them view all the photos on their own time without any additional effort from me. Jul 11 13 07:57 am Link Jennifer Whitten wrote: Haha lol Jul 11 13 07:59 am Link Marciofs wrote: LOL! Bad Idea... Good thought of revenge though.. you don't want word of mouth to say "He is a Horrible photographer" Jul 11 13 07:59 am Link i give them a full session gallery and let them choose their favorites for retouching. TF is a collaboration. both parties should get what they need. Jul 11 13 08:00 am Link Green Grape Photography wrote: Um, your idea of "straight up" is a bit odd. You are suggesting a lie since the OP has stated he still has the three worst images - he kept more than the best. Jul 11 13 08:08 am Link Be clear, be repetive, and put it all down in writing more than once. It's one of the drawbacks of working with new and aspiring models; if you choose to do it you just have to get used to it. Jul 11 13 08:09 am Link Sometimes I edit a few more ones, like 2 or 3, done quickly, because I don't want to have someone get disappointed because of this (I think it's your concern, OP, when you ask "most of those who complain will be unhappy with you because of it"). Interesting topic, i'll follow it Valenten http://www.valentenphotography.com Jul 11 13 08:19 am Link Marciofs wrote: Or you can suck it up and let them preview some of the others and choose a limited number. Sheesh, what is the big deal. Maybe they hated the ones you gave them. Jul 11 13 08:21 am Link Ruben Sanchez wrote: The exact opposite in my experience. Newbies want all the pics from the shoot. Experienced models know what is correctly stated by Azimuth: Azimuth Arts wrote: Jul 11 13 08:22 am Link Marciofs wrote: I had 2 so far this year that try to turn the tables after I told them the best of the bunch. They want it all. Jul 11 13 08:24 am Link I always shoot tethered whether in studio or on location and after the session I sit down with the model and together we select the best images. I typically give the model the opportunity to select 25 finished images and a release for use of the images. Jul 11 13 08:33 am Link Marciofs wrote: Sorry -- I side with the models, but not for the reason you might think: Jul 11 13 08:52 am Link Yeah, maybe she wants more images because the ones you gave her aren't usable to her. This has only happened to me once and I politely explained what my hang up was with the particular photo and it was something the photographer hadn't even noticed. She wonderfully offered to let me view the others. I might add that half of the photographers let me view all of the photos and pick my favorites which we models LOVE and half of them you just cross your fingers and hope they deliver something that you both like. Or it could be that your model is a photo hog and wants as many pictures as possible instead of one or two of the best! Either way, get things in writing before the shoot even begins. Jul 11 13 09:09 am Link They always want more, but I have no need for more, and I say that up front. And if they want more, they should pay for retouching. Some of them do pay for retouching of extra images, but most of them give up and do a smart thing - do another set, so that both them and me have a new thing for our portfolios. Jul 11 13 09:45 am Link I'm way too generous probably, but I tell them they can have up to 20. When the shoot is done, I hand them the camera and ask them to write down 20 image numbers. They can thumb through all the images on the LCD and choose. Because I then have to develop my keepers, and the ones they wanted, I usually spend about a week in post-production for 2 hours of shooting. But hey, they're giving me their time for free, so I don't mind. It's what I love doing. Now for a paid shoot, I don't promise them any, but I do usually let them preview the work and pick a few. Cheers Josh Jul 11 13 09:50 am Link Also, the images I like are never the ones the model likes. And this is quite common. i LOVE the ones that are well lit, well composed, are amazing photographs. The model LOVES the ones that are bad photos, but she looks good in them. So twice the work for me unfortunately  But again, it's a labor of love. My point is, for TFCD, it's not about how many you provide, it's about providing the ones the model wants/needs. She's giving you her time for free because she needs work for her port, so don't pick the images for her, let her pick the ones she wants. You can set whatever limit you want, 3, 5, images, fine, but she has to be the one to pic them. There are reasonable limits of course, you don't want bad representations of your work getting out there, so you can always tell her no, if one of the ones she picks isn't an example of your best work. Josh Jul 11 13 09:53 am Link It also comes down to who wants whom. If the photographer needs the model then the models work only for free if they get what they want. Supply and demand it´s that simple. Jul 11 13 10:02 am Link Images by MR wrote: This is the best way. Just make sure they read the agreement before the sign it. Jul 11 13 10:05 am Link |
