Photographer
WDI
Posts: 187
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Hi models. Just wondering if it's worth it for photographers to keep a photo of themselves in their portfolio. Do you want to see us before you meet us? We see so much of you but, naturally, you rarely see us until you meet us. It's always seemed a bit unfair to me, lol.  I'm in my avatar pic. It's my profile, right? Shouldn't I be in the pic? Or am I being a self-centred jerk?
Makeup Artist
ArtistryImage
Posts: 3091
Washington, District of Columbia, US
Post hidden on Sep 18, 2013 08:32 am
Reason: off-topic
Model
Isis22
Posts: 3557
Muncie, Indiana, US
I think the avatar should be a photo you took. I don't mind shots of the photographers themselves in ports but I prefer they be self-portraits and well done. Basically if you are going to do it do it well.
Model
Babalon Salome
Posts: 3499
Hamburg, Hamburg, Germany
Jay Black wrote:
Hi models. Just wondering if it's worth it for photographers to keep a photo of themselves in their portfolio. Do you want to see us before you meet us? No. I can't say I care about what a photographer looks like, but I do appreciate their avatar giving me a first impression of their work.
Photographer
Creative Lion Images
Posts: 41
Hobart, Indiana, US
Babalon Salome wrote:
No. I can't say I care about what a photographer looks like, but I do appreciate their avatar giving me a first impression of their work. exactly!...
Model
Dekilah
Posts: 5236
Dearborn, Michigan, US
I see a few sides to this.
I am more drawn to look at a portfolio if the avatar image draws me in. This usually means showing me a photo of a model.
However, having a good clean headshot or even a behind the scenes shot that shows you well is something I appreciate just to get an idea of a face to put with the name. It makes absolutely no difference on whether I choose to work with a person or not, but it is nice. I do especially appreciate it when I am meeting someone in a public place for a shoot. Otherwise I feel like I am just standing around waiting for someone to approach me and hoping that it is the right photographer. ^_~
So in general, I suppose having yourself as your avatar is not advised (by me personally), only because your avatar is our first view of your work, but having a photo of yourself accessible somewhere is nice.
Photographer
Lovely Day Media
Posts: 5885
Vineland, New Jersey, US
Personally, I think it all depends on what you look like. If you're nice looking, it's not so bad. If you're as ugly as I am, you'll never get to shoot with anyone. They'll be too scared.
I understand this isn't a dating website, but some seem to be of the opinion that if the photographer doesn't look good enough to date, they won't shoot, either. If they don't know until they get there, they may as well shoot but they won't shoot again with that person. For some, it's important enough to ask for a photo before meeting. When they find out, all communication is over.
This is just my experience. YMMV.
Model
Glamour Jessica
Posts: 2174
New York, New York, US
I think it's good for the photographer to have a pic of themselves in their portfolio. But, I would say to not have their pic as the avatar. I don't think it's being self centered if you do choose to do so though. I think that from a quick glance your portfolio might be seen as a model portfolio and not a photographer portfolio if you have the pic as avatar.
Photographer
Jerry Nemeth
Posts: 33355
Dearborn, Michigan, US
I would not use an avatar of myself. I don't want to scare everyone. 
Photographer
DOUGLASFOTOS
Posts: 10604
Los Angeles, California, US
ArtistryImage wrote:
Jay with zero friends and no tags you may have other more compelling issues to address... This is an industry networking site... do you have a firm grasp on what networking means? I am so glad..I don't play by those rules.
Photographer
Mauro Luna
Posts: 82
Houston, Texas, US
It would be detrimental for some people. I look like an ex-con.
But the self portrait in my portfolio has crossed my mind.
I usually use the av. for the latest image I like.
Photographer
B R U N E S C I
Posts: 25319
Bath, England, United Kingdom
Jay Black wrote:
Or am I being a self-centred jerk? Unless you're looking for a date nobody wants to see a photo of you.
So.....
Just my $0.02
Ciao
Stefano
www.stefanobrunesci.com
Photographer
Photo Visions
Posts: 1034
Cape Coral, Florida, US
Who cares. Do what YOU want and don't worry about it.
It's no big deal either way.
Photographer
WDI
Posts: 187
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Thank you for your replies, folks. ArtistryImage wrote:
Jay with zero friends and no tags you may have other more compelling issues to address... This is an industry networking site... do you have a firm grasp on what networking means? As my profile has stated since I started on this site, I deny/delete friend requests and tags as they come in. I do so simply because I do not have time to participate in the social aspect. So no compelling issues to address, as you suggest. I credit all of my work so if anyone interested in shooting with me wants to check me out before shooting, all they have to do is follow the links and ask the models.
This site may be an industry networking site for you and many others but not all of us are interested in being part of the industry and there are no rules to suggest we must be. Some of us enjoy creating photographs because it's fun to do. We have other jobs and I have read many profiles during my two years on the site that state the member is a hobbyist or engages in the work as an artistic pursuit. To my knowledge, no one is compelled to be part of the industry to join or use this site and I don't believe anyone will lose his or her account simply for not wanting to.
To answer your question, yes I understand what networking means very well. The city I call home played host to an Olympic Games 3 years ago. In the several years leading up to and during that event, I was employed as an official photographer with the municipal government's corporate communications department and the Office of the Mayor (letters available on request), worked freelance with two high profile law firms both of which sued the city for various infringements of Canadian law, with local/international media outlets which criticized event organizers for negative impacts on the city and it's vulnerable populations, and with local/international watchdog NGOs - all concurrently. I often acted as a go-between, helping these organizations understand one another with more than my camera. So yes, I have a firm grasp of what networking means. My abilities in that regard are quite excellent, thanks. For, while I no longer work with the legal, media or NGO offices I did before and during the Games, I continue to work full-time with my local government. It's steady work, good money, excellent benefits and I'll retire early in a few years with a nice pension. Without a firm grasp of what networking means, none of this would have come my way. ;-)
I asked my original question because I noticed very few photographers on this site use their own image as an avatar and wasn't sure why. I've read answers offered by those who were kind enough to take a moment to share their thoughts and thank you all for your insight, humour and even condescension! :-P
Good luck with your networking.
Photographer
B R U N E S C I
Posts: 25319
Bath, England, United Kingdom
Jay Black wrote:
Good luck with your networking. Cool story Bro.
If you want to appeal to models then show them pictures of models.
I don't personally give a flying fuck what you use for your avatar or whether you accept/deny my friend request or your ass-backward reasons for doing so.
Advice was offered and you have chosen to ignore it.
Don't bother asking again.
Just my $0.02
Ciao
Stefano
www.stefanobrunesci.com
Photographer
L o n d o n F o g
Posts: 7497
London, England, United Kingdom
Jay Black wrote:
Thank you for your replies, folks.
As my profile has stated since I started on this site, I deny/delete friend requests and tags as they come in. I do so simply because I do not have time to participate in the social aspect. So no compelling issues to address, as you suggest. I credit all of my work so if anyone interested in shooting with me wants to check me out before shooting, all they have to do is follow the links and ask the models.
This site may be an industry networking site for you and many others but not all of us are interested in being part of the industry and there are no rules to suggest we must be. Some of us enjoy creating photographs because it's fun to do. We have other jobs and I have read many profiles during my two years on the site that state the member is a hobbyist or engages in the work as an artistic pursuit. To my knowledge, no one is compelled to be part of the industry to join or use this site and I don't believe anyone will lose his or her account simply for not wanting to.
To answer your question, yes I understand what networking means very well. The city I call home played host to an Olympic Games 3 years ago. In the several years leading up to and during that event, I was employed as an official photographer with the municipal government's corporate communications department and the Office of the Mayor (letters available on request), worked freelance with two high profile law firms both of which sued the city for various infringements of Canadian law, with local/international media outlets which criticized event organizers for negative impacts on the city and it's vulnerable populations, and with local/international watchdog NGOs - all concurrently. I often acted as a go-between, helping these organizations understand one another with more than my camera. So yes, I have a firm grasp of what networking means. My abilities in that regard are quite excellent, thanks. For, while I no longer work with the legal, media or NGO offices I did before and during the Games, I continue to work full-time with my local government. It's steady work, good money, excellent benefits and I'll retire early in a few years with a nice pension. Without a firm grasp of what networking means, none of this would have come my way. ;-)
I asked my original question because I noticed very few photographers on this site use their own image as an avatar and wasn't sure why. I've read answers offered by those who were kind enough to take a moment to share their thoughts and thank you all for your insight, humour and even condescension! :-P
Good luck with your networking. This isn't about what we look like, and from the point of view of a model it shouldn't matter if we look like Shrek or Mark Whalberg. What matters are the results that they see after the shoot!
The rest is irrelevant, unless you're looking to hook up with a model, in which case you're on the wrong site!
Photographer
WDI
Posts: 187
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Ha ha, Stefano! It's so funny you wrote all of that a few minutes after I denied the friend request you sent me, lol!!!
If you really don't care about what I do with my avatar, why the tirade?
Photographer
Kent Art Photography
Posts: 3588
Ashford, England, United Kingdom
Photo Visions wrote:
Who cares. Do what YOU want and don't worry about it.
It's no big deal either way. Hmmmm. Interesting point of view...
Your avatar is your shop window. It's your chance to interest passers-by in your wares. How many shopkeepers do you see standing in their own shop windows?
Photographer
Edge of the Moon
Posts: 431
New York, New York, US
Lovely Day Media wrote:
Personally, I think it all depends on what you look like. If you're nice looking, it's not so bad. If you're as ugly as I am, you'll never get to shoot with anyone. They'll be too scared.
I understand this isn't a dating website, but some seem to be of the opinion that if the photographer doesn't look good enough to date, they won't shoot, either. If they don't know until they get there, they may as well shoot but they won't shoot again with that person. For some, it's important enough to ask for a photo before meeting. When they find out, all communication is over.
This is just my experience. YMMV. I have a feeling that this is true to some extent too.
Only a couple of times after I sent an image of myself so the model can find me in a crowd, the communication fizzled or ceased. I've actually seen their work with other photographers that took my place and it definitely wasn't as good as what I could have done for them, even if I do say so myself.
Even though this isn't a dating site, people will have their own motives for being here and dating or meeting others may be one of them. Fine by me.
Photographer
WDI
Posts: 187
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Kent Art Photography wrote:
Your avatar is your shop window. It's your chance to interest passers-by in your wares. How many shopkeepers do you see standing in their own shop windows? True enough. My intention in using the avatar I do is to show passers-by that at least one model feels comfortable enough with me to ride piggyback. She's also flashing a very happy smile which means she's having fun, too. So, looking into my shop window, a model might find it of interest that shooting with me is an easygoing experience. Perhaps I'm wrong but I assume that's a positive thing for many models, enough for them to want to take a peek at my portfolio where they will get an indication of my shooting/retouching abilities. I've done 80+ shoots with about 60 models in the past five years so it seems to be working. This is why I asked the question, i.e., it seems to work well for me so why aren't others doing it too? And I appreciate the feedback because now I know a few of the reasons.
Thanks for your input.
Photographer
B R U N E S C I
Posts: 25319
Bath, England, United Kingdom
Jay Black wrote:
My intention in using the avatar I do is to show passers-by that at least one model feels comfortable enough with me to ride piggyback. To be honest, I figured the girl was probably your girlfriend.
Your 'strategy' makes no sense.
Jay Black wrote:
If you really don't care about what I do with my avatar, why the tirade? The 'tirade' as you call it was in response to your ridiculous posturing in this thread.
Why ask if you don't want to know the answers and have already made up your mind?
For somebody who claims to have no time for the social networking aspects of this site you certainly seem to have plenty of time for trolling in the forums!
Ciao
Stefano
www.stefanobrunesci.com
Photographer
WDI
Posts: 187
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
That Italian Guy wrote:
Jay Black wrote:
My intention in using the avatar I do is to show passers-by that at least one model feels comfortable enough with me to ride piggyback. To be honest, I figured the girl was probably your girlfriend.
Your 'strategy' makes no sense.
The 'tirade' as you call it was in response to your ridiculous posturing in this thread.
Why ask if you don't want to know the answers and have already made up your mind?
For somebody who claims to have no time for the social networking aspects of this site you certainly seem to have plenty of time for trolling in the forums!
Ciao
Stefano
www.stefanobrunesci.com I recently underwent complicated surgery and have been limited to very little physical activity so I have been participating in the forums more than I have done because I have time to do it while I'm off work recovering.
Photographer
B R U N E S C I
Posts: 25319
Bath, England, United Kingdom
Jay Black wrote:
I recently underwent complicated surgery and have been limited to very little physical activity so I have been participating in the forums more than I have done because I have time to do it while I'm off work recovering. I'm pleased to hear you're recovering.
I'm not sure how much good this thread will be doing you though, and if your time on MM is limited you would probably be better served by spending it trying to reach out to and forge relationships with models who might be interested to work with you rather than starting pointless threads here in the forums and arguing with everybody who tries to give you the very advice you asked for.
Ciao
Stefano
www.stefanobrunesci.com
Photographer
WDI
Posts: 187
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
That Italian Guy wrote:
I'm not sure how much good this thread will be doing you though, and if your time on MM is limited you would probably be better served by spending it trying to reach out to and forge relationships with models who might be interested to work with you rather than starting pointless threads here in the forums and arguing with everybody who tries to give you the very advice you asked for.
Ciao
Stefano
www.stefanobrunesci.com (1) How do you know I haven't been reaching out to and forging relationships with models who might be interested in working with me? I have been doing a lot of that, actually, and with success.
(2) I have not argued with everyone who has offered advice here and, in fact, have thanked everyone. I have objected when the tone of others comes across as a bit rude and when others make unfounded statements based on inaccurate assumptions.
Enjoy your day, Stefano.
Model
Jules NYC
Posts: 21617
New York, New York, US
OP Nice to make the connection, but unnecessary. I read this thread and kindly suggest that you get some 'friends' on here. You don't have to talk about the weather but to a model it would be creepy if you have none/no comments/no tags and graduate from new member to regular member that has no interaction with anyone. You are interacting now. Why are you rejecting a Model Mayhem circle? If you want people just to come to you, make your own website or post Twitter feeds.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_GkjymuQ9U
Photographer
Designit - Edward Olson
Posts: 1708
West Hollywood, California, US
Jay Black wrote:
Hi models. Just wondering if it's worth it for photographers to keep a photo of themselves in their portfolio. Do you want to see us before you meet us? We see so much of you but, naturally, you rarely see us until you meet us. It's always seemed a bit unfair to me, lol.
I'm in my avatar pic. It's my profile, right? Shouldn't I be in the pic? Or am I being a self-centred jerk? So how did you get that picture of yourself? Did you set up a tri-pod and a timer? You have an assistant who was instructed as to how to frame the shot and when to take the picture? If so, your assertion that it shows how comfortable and happy a model is to work with you is lost because it is posed and contrived. If that picture was an unplanned snapshot, you are not the photographer in my opinion and it shouldn't be credited to you.
In either instance, there is no reason someone looking at the avatar should know that it is you in the shot and therefore you are not receiving the benefit that you are asserting is the point of having it. It is just a picture of two people in cold-weather clothing, which is not really representation of the majority of the images in your MM portfolio, which makes it deceptive (in a way that negatively impacts you as you will lose out on prospective models who don't want shots like that). First impressions are important.
Photographer
Laura Elizabeth Photo
Posts: 2253
Rochester, New York, US
To answer the OP's question, no I think it's pointless to have an avatar of yourself if you're a photographer. I have shot tons of self portraits, some very dramatic since I have blue and purple hair, however I don't even bother putting them in my port on here since who cares? I'm not a model. Sure the picture might show who I am but that's not what I'm promoting, I'm promoting my work. Being a photographer and artist in general is a generally faceless profession at least compared to modeling and acting; you don't matter only you work does.
I sometimes like to let people know what I look like before the shoot though, which is why I contact more models on facebook. I just don't want anyone to get weirded out when they show up and find out I have blue hair and tattoos on my hands :p
Model
P I X I E
Posts: 35440
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
The only time where it's okay to put a photo of yourself in your portfolio as a photographer is if you are a 'modelgrapher'. Otherwise, I really couldn't care less what you look. I want to see your work, how you make other models look.
And lawl at your reasoning for not networking. Why are you even here?
Model
Jules NYC
Posts: 21617
New York, New York, US
All the photographers that refuse to self-portrait are secret hotties.
Photographer
Llobet Photography
Posts: 4915
Fort Lauderdale, Florida, US
Jules NYC wrote:
All the photographers that refuse to self-portrait are secret hotties.
I like you!
Model
Jules NYC
Posts: 21617
New York, New York, US
BlueMoonPics wrote:
I like you!
Photographer
L o n d o n F o g
Posts: 7497
London, England, United Kingdom
Jules NYC wrote:
All the photographers that refuse to self-portrait are secret hotties.
Me for sure...!
Model
Jules NYC
Posts: 21617
New York, New York, US
London Fog wrote:
Me for sure...!
Photographer
WDI
Posts: 187
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Photographer
Swank Photography
Posts: 19020
Key West, Florida, US
Jay Black wrote:
As my profile has stated since I started on this site, I deny/delete friend requests and tags as they come in. I do so simply because I do not have time to participate in the social aspect. So no compelling issues to address, as you suggest. I credit all of my work so if anyone interested in shooting with me wants to check me out before shooting, all they have to do is follow the links and ask the models.
This site may be an industry networking site for you and many others but not all of us are interested in being part of the industry and there are no rules to suggest we must be. Some of us enjoy creating photographs because it's fun to do. We have other jobs and I have read many profiles during my two years on the site that state the member is a hobbyist or engages in the work as an artistic pursuit. To my knowledge, no one is compelled to be part of the industry to join or use this site and I don't believe anyone will lose his or her account simply for not wanting to.
To answer your question, yes I understand what networking means very well. The city I call home played host to an Olympic Games 3 years ago. In the several years leading up to and during that event, I was employed as an official photographer with the municipal government's corporate communications department and the Office of the Mayor (letters available on request), worked freelance with two high profile law firms both of which sued the city for various infringements of Canadian law, with local/international media outlets which criticized event organizers for negative impacts on the city and it's vulnerable populations, and with local/international watchdog NGOs - all concurrently. I often acted as a go-between, helping these organizations understand one another with more than my camera. So yes, I have a firm grasp of what networking means. My abilities in that regard are quite excellent, thanks. For, while I no longer work with the legal, media or NGO offices I did before and during the Games, I continue to work full-time with my local government. It's steady work, good money, excellent benefits and I'll retire early in a few years with a nice pension. Without a firm grasp of what networking means, none of this would have come my way. ;-)
I asked my original question because I noticed very few photographers on this site use their own image as an avatar and wasn't sure why. I've read answers offered by those who were kind enough to take a moment to share their thoughts and thank you all for your insight, humour and even condescension! :-P
Good luck with your networking. You talk about NOT wanting to network on here, blah, blah, blah, but yet you create a thread on here.
Yeah.
Seems to me that you just wanted to "justify" why you have a picture of you as your avatar.
Whatever. It's your conflict with yourself you seem to be having and are weakly attempting to drag us into.
So carry on.
That Italian Guy wrote:
Cool story Bro.
If you want to appeal to models then show them pictures of models.
I don't personally give a flying fuck what you use for your avatar or whether you accept/deny my friend request or your ass-backward reasons for doing so.
Advice was offered and you have chosen to ignore it.
Don't bother asking again.
Just my $0.02
Ciao
Stefano
www.stefanobrunesci.com Stefano pretty much nailed everything here in his reply.
Except I do have one question...Jay if you dont want to network on here then why are you even here?
Stefano brings up some solid points.
Either way, I highly doubt you will pay attention and change anything.
So...eh...best of luck to you on your journey
Photographer
WDI
Posts: 187
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
P I X I E wrote:
The only time where it's okay to put a photo of yourself in your portfolio as a photographer is if you are a 'modelgrapher'. Otherwise, I really couldn't care less what you look. I want to see your work, how you make other models look.
And lawl at your reasoning for not networking. Why are you even here? I imagine it's in how one defines networking. I'm here because the site allows me to meet people with whom I can do photo shoots. If sending several PMs a month to people who have expressed an interest in shooting with photographers in my area is networking, then I do network. Not having tags and friends appear on my profile doesn't seem to have interfered with that and that seems to be something others believe might hinder my success. I appreciate and am grateful for their advice because I know they just want me to do well, so thanks everyone - truly! It helps me make informed decisions knowing other points of view. I've been accused of arguing with everybody here in this thread but that is simply not the case.
Of course models will base their decision to shoot with me on the strength of my work more than they will on any photo of me. I just don't see any harm in including a photo of me. Thanks for your message.
Photographer
WDI
Posts: 187
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Jules NYC wrote:
I read this thread and kindly suggest that you get some 'friends' on here. You don't have to talk about the weather but to a model it would be creepy if you have none/no comments/no tags and graduate from new member to regular member that has no interaction with anyone.
You are interacting now. Why are you rejecting a Model Mayhem circle?
If you want people just to come to you, make your own website or post Twitter feeds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_GkjymuQ9U Thanks! If some models find it 'creepy' that no friends or tags appear on my profile, even after having read my profile description and are aware they can reach models credited in my portfolio if they're concerned, then that's unfortunate and it's a cost I'm willing to accept.
It's a bit of a stretch to assume I do not interact with anyone. I wouldn't be setting up any shoots at all on this site if that were true. I allow polite comments on my photos and, when I have time, comment politely on photos by other photographers in their own portfolios or those of models they've worked with. So, if that's what we call networking, then I do. Just not as much. The concern from you and others seems to be that I will suffer for this but, given my intent and goals at this time, it's not enough to lead me to change at least for now.
Thanks for taking the time to express your thoughts.
Model
Jules NYC
Posts: 21617
New York, New York, US
Jay Black wrote:
Thanks! If some models find it 'creepy' that no friends or tags appear on my profile, even after having read my profile description and are aware they can reach models credited in my portfolio if they're concerned, then that's unfortunate and it's a cost I'm willing to accept.
It's a bit of a stretch to assume I do not interact with anyone. I wouldn't be setting up any shoots at all on this site if that were true. I allow polite comments on my photos and, when I have time, comment politely on photos by other photographers in their own portfolios or those of models they've worked with. So, if that's what we call networking, then I do. Just not as much. The concern from you and others seems to be that I will suffer for this but, given my intent and goals at this time, it's not enough to lead me to change at least for now.
Thanks for taking the time to express your thoughts. It's either an elitist attitude, 'don't friend me/talk to me but work with me! or just anti-social.
I don't PM everyone here, but I am not opposed to open the lines of communication for work.
Sometimes people are really cool!
I've made real friends here:)
Model
allison mindy
Posts: 1495
Gainesville, Florida, US
Babalon Salome wrote:
No. I can't say I care about what a photographer looks like, but I do appreciate their avatar giving me a first impression of their work. +1
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