Christopher Hartman wrote:

I think it depends on the context of the critique.

"I do not like her singing.  It doesn't sound very good to me."

People cannot say you're wrong.  It's subjective.

versus...

"She has marginal singing skills."

The latter critique implies that you know what good singing is.  Not just simply what sounds good to you, but that you have the skills to determine if someone actually KNOWS how to sing.

I think someone like Simon Cowell KNOWS how to tell if someone is a talented singer or not.  That doesn't mean he or even myself will like their singing.

hmmm...

Even a tone-deaf pygmy from New Guinea could tell the difference in talent between Miley and Christina.

Knowing how to sing, or even having the ability to get the notes right, doesn't make you a "great" singer.  Being able to walk around a stage and twerk on an MTV broadcast doesn't mean you are a "great" performer. Even if she hadn't twerked, her stage movements weren't particularly fixating. Christina as a boatload more energy and talent in live performance.

All it means is that you are engaged in business. Bob was right that the result might make money literally rain from the sky (using a magical formula), but that has no bearing on quantifying the quality of talent.

GPS Studio Services wrote:
I wish my album was as popular as hers.  I agree, she isn't the best artist out there, but ... she has been successful.  I give her kudos.

What are you going to do to publicize your album?

GPS Studio Services wrote:
I wish my album was as popular as hers.  I agree, she isn't the best artist out there, but ... she has been successful.  I give her kudos.

Jerry Nemeth wrote:
What are you going to do to publicize your album?

Well I can promise you ... I won't be swinging around nekkid on a wrecking ball.

Glenn Hall - Fine Art wrote:
lol...yeah, those people who "judge" on the reality music star television shows know real talent. If it wasn't for people like him on those television shows, we would never heard of Elvis, The Beatles, Queen, Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden, Kate Bush.

Do you know what he did before coming to reality TV?

I don't know him. I don't know his history.  But I have a feeling he knows his shit.

You might even think someone like Gordon Ramsey is an asshat.  You may think his restaurants suck.  But the dude knows how to cook.

Untitled Photographer wrote:

I've been a musician for 40 years, but it doesn't take that to know what marginal singing is. Keep in mind some people like marginal or even bad singing. Katy Perry is not a great singer, neither is Bob Dylan :-)  Bob Dylan is a profound song writer which explains his iconic status. Katy Perry has a very marketable image and pretty good singing skills.

Bottom line, I think is, Miley wants attention and she has skillfully garnered that and I hope she's laughing her way to the bank. She's going to be selling her image for a very long time.

Experience doesn't always translate either.  I have co-workers with just as much experience as I do.  But they can't compete at my level.

Smedley Whiplash wrote:

hmmm...

Even a tone-deaf pygmy from New Guinea could tell the difference in talent between Miley and Christina.

Knowing how to sing, or even having the ability to get the notes right, doesn't make you a "great" singer.  Being able to walk around a stage and twerk on an MTV broadcast doesn't mean you are a "great" performer. Even if she hadn't twerked, her stage movements weren't particularly fixating. Christina as a boatload more energy and talent in live performance.

All it means is that you are engaged in business. Bob was right that the result might make money literally rain from the sky (using a magical formula), but that has no bearing on quantifying the quality of talent.

I thought we were talking about whether or not she has talent.  Not whether or not anyone feels she is better, lesser, or equal to a Christina.

GPS Studio Services wrote:

GPS Studio Services wrote:
I wish my album was as popular as hers.  I agree, she isn't the best artist out there, but ... she has been successful.  I give her kudos.

Well I can promise you ... I won't be swinging around nekkid on a wrecking ball.

You might get more hits.

Patrick Walberg wrote:
"Wrecking Ball!"  If the purpose was to "sell" the song, then excellent job!  She has damn near 50,000,000 Hits on it already!   The visuals are not pornographic by any stretch ... so she licks a hammer and swings around nude while riding a wrecking ball ... all that stuff is boring and has been done before.    The song lyrics are simple, sort of catchy, but get the point across.   I've always like Miley's voice, so I wish they hadn't used some autotune on parts of it.  She certainly is not the most talented out there, but she must be doing something right.

Miley is far removed from her dad and country music.  She is in her 20's ... no longer playing the character of Hannah Montana.  She is not ugly, and she is doing the best job of making money over everyone else in the music business at the moment.  The "comments" are rolling in at about 100 per minute on Twitter, and on Youtube!  Why are people so shocked?  Why do people even care?  Pop culture I suppose?

Remember ... 50 Million hits!  She will have more than that soon!

Congratulations to Miley!  She got everyone's attention! 

So making money is what it's all about?

London Fog wrote:
So making money is what it's all about?

Sad, but true.  As much as there are people complaining, that is exactly what is happening.  People making money from this!

I'm not saying that agree with it, as I ignored the awards show ... didn't watch it!  However one could NOT avoid it online where I spend most of my time.  I'm not really a fan of Miley's.  I have never bought her music, and I wont be spending any money to see her in concert either.  (If I get a press pass, I'll go)   Terry Richardson directed this, and that got my attention.  I bet licking the hammer was his idea ...

As a photographer and a human being, I do what I do for love, and not money.  Don't get me wrong, I do need to enough to live on, but money is not my focus.  Money can make life more convenient, but it can also make life more complicated too.   Some people love money, but money is not a guarantee of happiness.

Ken Marcus Studios wrote:
I thought it was a good production . . . well done

Technically, yes. Not so sure the visuals were relevant to the song. Gratuitous licking and nudity. I wonder if this was her idea and couldn't get anyone other than Richardson to take it on or if she went to him knowing he could come up with something sleazy.

Patrick Walberg wrote:

Sad, but true.  As much as there are people complaining, that is exactly what is happening.  People making money from this!

I'm not saying that agree with it, as I ignored the awards show ... didn't watch it!  However one could NOT avoid it online where I spend most of my time.  I'm not really a fan of Miley's.  I have never bought her music, and I wont be spending any money to see her in concert either.  (If I get a press pass, I'll go)   Terry Richardson directed this, and that got my attention.  I bet licking the hammer was his idea ...

As a photographer and a human being, I do what I do for love, and not money.  Don't get me wrong, I do need to enough to live on, but money is not my focus.  Money can make life more convenient, but it can also make life more complicated too.   Some people love money, but money is not a guarantee of happiness.

I am sure that she loves singing and doesn't want to fade away into obscurity.  It's not just money.

GPS Studio Services wrote:
I wish my album was as popular as hers.  I agree, she isn't the best artist out there, but ... she has been successful.  I give her kudos.

If they objected to anything about working with Miley, Robin Thicke could have said "no" to joining her on stage at the awards show.  He didn't have to let her grind her butt in his crotch.  He seemed to enjoy it! 

Terry Richardson could have turned down the offer to direct her video if he found it offensive.  ---  HUGE LAUGH ---  "Terry offended by a little nudity? BullShit!"  He knew a great opportunity when he saw it!  I wouldn't have turned the directing job down if I were qualified and they asked.  Would you?

I wish people understood better the "talent machine" that is Disney.  They tell these kids how to act, what to wear, who to mingle with, and basically control most aspects of those kids lives while they are under contract.  That is why some get a bit wild when they try to find who they really are after being told "who" they were for so long.

I think Miley has been a great actress for the Hannah Montana show, and she is a decent singer.  If she never made another penny in her life, she has so much money, she could live pretty well the rest of her life.  But she is not going to sit still and do nothing,  I'm glad that she is busy!  Drugs and alcohol are the downfall of many child actors/stars and I hope she doesn't fall prey to that.  What she is doing on stage and in front of the camera is very much staged for a purpose!

Jerry Nemeth wrote:
I am sure that she loves singing and doesn't want to fade away into obscurity.  It's not just money.

I think you are right.  There clearly is a purpose for the act she did for the awards show, and for this video.  It's all carefully planned for the biggest impact through the media.  If she keeps a good head on her shoulders, she'll ride it out on top once more!

Toto Photo wrote:
Sinead O'Connor meets Macworld 1984

Yea

bmiSTUDIO wrote:

Technically, yes. Not so sure the visuals were relevant to the song. Gratuitous licking and nudity. I wonder if this was her idea and couldn't get anyone other than Richardson to take it on or if she went to him knowing he could come up with something sleazy.

Do you feel the work in your MM folio is sleazy too?

I'm not offering an opinion or a critique, just some observations that make me wonder at your assessment. Miley was partially nude, or implied, sitting on a wrecking ball. You show a woman in your folio completely nude lounging against a rusted milk truck.

Am I missing something?

Robert Randall wrote:

Do you feel the work in your MM folio is sleazy too?

I'm not offering an opinion or a critique, just some observations that make me wonder at your assessment. Miley was partially nude, or implied, sitting on a wrecking ball. You show a woman in your folio completely nude lounging against a rusted milk truck.

Am I missing something?

It's OK for him but not for Miley!   

Untitled Photographer wrote:
Yes you're missing the soft core porn element of a video where a young woman performs felatio on a phallus.

Who was the starlet who TR photographed for GQ not long ago where her phallus was a red white and blue ice pop? TR has a talent for getting beautiful women to put things in their mouth. And the sales go through the roof!

Blow jobs sell! Go TR!

Wouldn't you love to have Terry Richardson as a contributing member of this forum?   I sure would!  I don't think he is the greatest photographer, but like Miley, he seems to have a manner in which to strike up controversy either in his work or what he says.   I don't buy Miley's music and I don't spend money on Terry's work ... but they both seem to have struck gold ... make that platinum with this latest video.   

They know how to work the media to their best advantage.  I'm not shocked by any of this ... there are photographers on here that I think are better than Richardson, but he gets a lot of publicity.

Cyclops wrote:
Come on.  You would think she did something horrible.  You have models on here taking their clothes off and I doubt any of you guys aren't checking it out.  Get real.  Women nowadays want to explore their sexuality because its power.  If guys didnt go gaga and women didnt feel thrown off  by their daringness then they wouldn't get press time.  The body is nowadays a way of empowerment and a way of expression.  Your distaste is just a reflection of your hangups and unwillingness to just sit back and enjoy the imagery.  Who hasn't done some sexy shoot where some girl didn't want to push it or the photographer hoped for more sexuality.

I've done shoots where the model pushed it. 

Ultimate Wet Dreams wrote:
Music video of "Miley Cyrus - Wrecking Ball" swinging around butt naked.

Had no idea Terry Richardson directs music video too

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=My2FRPA3Gf8

I have never seen a video with 72,000,000 views get such a horribly low score on Youtube. The highest rated comment is "I like this song but the video sucks". 

The video sucks.. and so does Terry Richardson. Damn though.. I must admit he is an inspiration. Knowing that making millions doesn't rely on exceptional talent has me hopeful that I might just "make it" myself one day.

J Starks wrote:
Maybe Miley's "only" talent is to get people talking about her. It seems to be working for her.

FBY1K

Her and Terry are a perfect match!!

Patrick Walberg wrote:
.... I don't think he is the greatest photographer, but like Miley, he seems to have a manner in which to strike up controversy either in his work or what he says.  ....

Controversy erupts every time Terry is mentioned because his work sucks and people are not only perplexed but pissed that someone who sucks so bad is getting so much attention.

I have said it before, Terry Richardson is like "Snooky" from Jersey Shore. Absolutely no talent other than they have an exceptional ability to suck at what they do and still make money.

Moon Pix Photography wrote:

Controversy erupts every time Terry is mentioned because his work sucks and people are not only perplexed but pissed that someone who sucks so bad is getting so much attention.

I have said it before, Terry Richardson is like "Snooky" from Jersey Shore. Absolutely no talent other than they have an exceptional ability to suck at what they do and still make money.

I'm going to guess you are only familiar with the Terry Richardson's work that you do not like and not all of his work.

I think he has a style that is a turn off to a lot of people.  But he's also able to deliver non-TR stuff.

cinema photography wrote:
Reading this thread is amusing. The whole "get off my lawn thing" is expected but people forget, it would seem, how pop culture works. All those girls who watched her as Hannah Montana, yeah, they grew up and buy music-Miley stayed relevant to them and to her industry.

Madonna at the 84' MTV award shocked the world with her Like A Virgin performance. It was a huge scandal.  It was unheard of for somebody to do what she did. Did she suffer? No, we all know what happened after. Her videos, her Sex book etc etc. She was 24 at the time and she knew exactly what she was doing. Their are plenty of people with better voices, but that doesnt matter. You're still talking about Miley, not them. Better or worse she knows what shes doing. Reinventing herself from Disney Teen idol to self branded pop star. Very smart.

The fact that everyone was talking about Miley the next day, good, bad, in between, shows you she is keenly aware of what making a lasting impression is all about.

Arm Chair QBs are a dime dozen. You're not her demographic just like my Dad wasnt Madonnas. Many more examples, but most people will get the point.

Those can do, those who can't flap their pie holes and remain on the sidelines wishing.

+1

Christopher Hartman wrote:

I thought we were talking about whether or not she has talent.  Not whether or not anyone feels she is better, lesser, or equal to a Christina.

Is there some other way to measure talent?

Cyclops wrote:
Come on.  You would think she did something horrible.  You have models on here taking their clothes off and I doubt any of you guys aren't checking it out.  Get real.  Women nowadays want to explore their sexuality because its power.  If guys didnt go gaga and women didnt feel thrown off  by their daringness then they wouldn't get press time.  The body is nowadays a way of empowerment and a way of expression.  Your distaste is just a reflection of your hangups and unwillingness to just sit back and enjoy the imagery.  Who hasn't done some sexy shoot where some girl didnt want to push it or the photographer hoped for more sexuality.

Not horrible.   Mediocre.

But, after viewing the video "Want" (Imbruglia)  that was recommended... I feel better about Miley's WreckingBall efforts.    Imbruglia's was beyond boring.

Smedley Whiplash wrote:

Is there some other way to measure talent?

Many different ways.  But comparing her to Christina as an equal or better than her means Miley is very good.  But saying she's not as good as Christina only tells us that Christina is better and not if Miley is good or bad.  Unless the assumption is that Christina is bad and if you're worse than she is, then you're clearly very bad.

Moon Pix Photography wrote:
Controversy erupts every time Terry is mentioned because his work sucks and people are not only perplexed but pissed that someone who sucks so bad is getting so much attention.

I have said it before, Terry Richardson is like "Snooky" from Jersey Shore. Absolutely no talent other than they have an exceptional ability to suck at what they do and still make money.

Really I disagree with you!  I don't think Richardson's work sucks.  It's up to subjective opinion, but I think he has done some great images.  I said I didn't think he is the greatest either, but he is not so terrible.  To be able to do what he has done, takes talent. Haters are going to hate.

Christopher Hartman wrote:
Many different ways.  But comparing her to Christina as an equal or better than her means Miley is very good.  But saying she's not as good as Christina only tells us that Christina is better and not if Miley is good or bad.  Unless the assumption is that Christina is bad and if you're worse than she is, then you're clearly very bad.

No it doesn't... It means that I think Christina is good, and a pretty reasonable standard for going full throttle 100% in the talent department.

That I think Miley only hits about 15% on the Christina scale isn't a  glowing review at all.

The basis for comparison is just girl pop stars. Being nude in the video doesn't relate to talent, but I would give her cudos for advocating public nudity.

Robert Randall wrote:

I'm always mystified when people complain about successful people, and it's always the same complaint, which boils down to "I could have done it better". It never seems to occur to these people that if they could do it better, or for that matter, even try to do it, they might actually succeed at something.

Terry obviously has his finger on the pulse of today's trends, and Miley is doing an incredible number on her brand, which isn't aimed at 40 year old fine art farts. The more the old farts complain about her, the more the kids want her. How in the hell did the old farts forget that tidbit?

You guys really rock!

my son is 16 -- he doesn't like her "music" and he doesn't like " her" either,

He just laughed at her.

I don't hate her. But I don't think that it's only "old farts' that laugh at her.

I like music that is about music not about a brand -- you'd be surprised that there are some young people that care about music as an art form and don't look at music as a brand.

Musicians for instance.

It's like this reality crap that Americans consume -- for the life of me I can't figure out why anyone gives a shit about these people's lives.( Housewives, Big Brother, name your poison)

I guess that makes me old.

:shrugs:

I wonder if Miley will be around in 5 or 10 years -- I don't care much either way but I don't really see her as having the goods for the long haul but I could be wrong.

I never followed her as Hannah Montana either except that I always found her speaking voice annoying as heck.

Images by MR wrote:
I find it amusing reading some of the negative comments about the video from people on a hobbyist based modelling site.

But I bet the comments from "professionals" within the music video industry might be even more negative.

If a homeless guy did a taste test for Hell's Kitchen (Gordon Ramsey's food) vs Famous Daves.... would his opinion be invalid because he was homeless?  Would Ramsey be able to convince him that Foie Gras is better then BBQ'd ribs?

The opinions of the posters on MM don't need to be compared with whether or not they are amateur, or if they have a decent portfolio... because THAT isn't a basis for comparison. Miley has to be compared to HER peers, or simply liked or not liked by the listeners.

Smedley Whiplash wrote:
But I bet the comments from "professionals" within the music video industry might be even more negative.

If a homeless guy did a taste test for Hell's Kitchen (Gordon Ramsey's food) vs Famous Daves.... would his opinion be invalid because he was homeless?  Would Ramsey be able to convince him that Foie Gras is better then BBQ'd ribs?

The opinions of the posters on MM don't need to be compared with whether or not they are amateur, or if they have a decent portfolio... because THAT isn't a basis for comparison. Miley has to be compared to HER peers, or simply liked or not liked by the listeners.

Everyone has an opinion, so it really only matters to the one who it is about, and then only if they take the "opinion" seriously.   I think it's safe to say that none of us are "peers" to Miley ... so we are all just chirping amongst each other.  Christina Aguilera "could" consider herself a peer, and have something to say, but she is keeping that opinion to herself.  As for Miley, she is doing just fine regardless of what we think.

As for those critiquing Terry Richardson, well  some of us might think we are his "peers" so I have no problem myself with having an opinion on him.  I've noticed in MANY threads on these forums that there are plenty of "Terry Bashers!"  Those who hate him, I ask why?  Are you jealous?  What is it that makes you hate him so?   As for me, I don't think a whole lot about him personally.  I don't know him personally, just all the crap the media gossip machine puts out there about him.  I admire much of his work, although maybe not the manner of his creating it.  The guy seems to be enjoying what he does, and he's obviously gained notoriety at it!

Silke Photography wrote:
I think she was a disney kid and she's trying to break that.
miley can definitely handle scandals. first cutting her hair, now twerking with bears and beetlejuice (gotta say I loved that suit though haha) and then she's showing off her body (even more than before).
That is what brings you forward in the industry. well, there're other/better ways to achieve that but she's choosing the easy, getting naked and pulling a scandal way.
And it works, the world is talking about her

Personally I don't really care but it's kinda entertaining to watch what's gonna happen next
Also, I like her new music, I think she's doing well on that.

I feel like saying; just let her play. Back then it was Britney sticking her tongue to Madonna, now it's Miley doing her own weird thing. I just got my popcorn haha

What is more scandalous, Miley doing a boring, tasteless, yet unoriginal routine on stage for a very unimportant awards show that only can thrive on controversy, OR that a 36 year old married man with a son is up there dancing and singing a song about blurred lines of consensual sex and rape while letting Miley grind her butt in his pelvis?  The FACT is that there is quite a strong double standard going on here.  No one blames Robin Thicke for that staged show, yet he was as much a contributor to it as he did participate quite willingly.  I don't care for Robin Thicke.  He steals great grooves and riffs from Marvin Gaye and then threatens to sue the family?

Double standards goe for Mr Richardson too.  He directed the video ... so where is the outrage at him?  I have no outrage or shocked feelings over any of this .. it's actually rather boring.  I enjoyed the song very much though.  It's one of her best ... I just wish they'd do away with that damn autotune.  The visuals of the video are sort of boring to me because I've seen a lot of similar stuff before.  What's so shocking about a naked body swinging on a wrecking ball?  Or licking a hammer?