New York, New York, US
If you believe these images can get published and want to push for that inform her that that is the decision that would most benefit her in adding tearsheets to both of your respective portfolios.
If you are no longer confident that the images will be published then send her what you finished and be done with it. Block her or add her to a blacklist.
Edit: I'm sorry you have to deal with this!
Mar 06 14 10:56 am Link
You are on point. When shoots start going that way. Shut 'em down. I also wouldn't give her unedited photos and that won't be the end. Once she sees she can punk you, she'll be back with demands for money or something else. Unless its your magazine you can't guarantee publication. Going forward I would write up a basic model release that details exactly what models will receive and how and if a magazine submission might work. Giving her all the images may seem like it may end things but it likely won't and you don't want to ever give in to blackmail. Block her on Facebook. Block her here if she is a member.
Mar 06 14 11:32 am Link
Lodi, California, US
Loki Studio wrote:
this seems reasonable, it's a reminder of original agreement, has a timeframe and
Mar 06 14 11:38 am Link
El Cajon, California, US
When she walked in unprepared to do the concepts you outlined for her that should have been enough to send her packing. If she had a problem she should have communicated it prior to the shoot. Showing up unprepared shows a lack of respect. There are literally thousands of models on MM and the vast majority of them will understand your concept and get behind it.
Mar 06 14 11:52 am Link
Thanks for the feedback everyone.
Just to clarify a things people commented on:
The casting calls and subsequent conversations I had with her were very clear that this shoot was for tear sheets/ magazine submissions. We did not discuss what would happen if the images weren't published and my release form was just my standard release and did not cover any of that. Up until now, that's not been an issue but I guess I need to create a release for that specifically as well too.
As to why I didn't end the shoot...because I thought I invested quite a bit into it. With the changes she made, the shoot was still salvageable. Those changes weren't enough to pull the plug.
When she showed up that day she did demonstrate modeling skills but it was difficult to get the emoting/ expressions I needed to fit the theme. After working with her for a bit, I managed to get some smiles and laughing. It was difficult though and that is not something I could have told from screening her or her portfolio.
I'm not sure that destrying everything is the answer. I had a MUA that put some great work into the shoot, it took time, planning, wardrobe, etc. I'm sure the images could be published by someone, but perhaps just giving her the images that I already retouched and calling it a day is a better solution.
Mar 06 14 01:31 pm Link
Woodinville, Washington, US
Patrick Walberg wrote:
That just gives her more ammo with which to escalate the fight. She's now free to take the worst shots, edit them into something far worse, and credit the photographer for that.
Mar 06 14 01:48 pm Link
Washington, District of Columbia, US
I'd be tempted to give her nothing.
Mar 06 14 03:25 pm Link
San Diego, California, US
how about send her here to read. maybe she will learn something.
Mar 06 14 03:43 pm Link
Mar 06 14 05:00 pm Link
Sorry if I'm assuming too much.
Mar 06 14 05:02 pm Link
Nacogdoches, Texas, US
Mar 06 14 05:27 pm Link
Loki Studio wrote:
Honestly I couldn't care less what another photographer would say about talent in my area, and actually it hasn't really come up. It's almost like high school all over again, gossip, and who is dating who. There are always two sides to the story, you have to consider the source, and in the end it's best to find out yourself sometimes than pick through everything that's said.
Mar 06 14 05:31 pm Link
I'm going to play Devil's Advocate for a moment. Once your model found out the shoots wouldn't be published she wanted them all. At this point she may feel used. I think many issues can be worked out. No texts. No angry or defensive emails. Call her and try to negotiate a deal that is fair to both of you. If she asks for every image tell her as I do she can see them on your computer and you will work on some of those SHE likes. If she continues to demand all of them politely say no. Give her those you have edited. You can't stop her from being angry or talking about you. You can try to work something out with her.
Mar 06 14 05:39 pm Link
Tony, I see your point but she wanted ALL the photos before I had even submitted them to the magazine, like a few days after the shoot.
My suspicion is that she wanted to use the photos from our shoot for her portfolio, so that she could visit agencies in NYC. Early on she asked me for all of the photos, and said she didn't care if they were unedited.
So, her insistence to have something from the shoot began even before the actual photos were submitted.
Mar 06 14 05:48 pm Link
I like the way you think.
Mar 06 14 05:49 pm Link
Hmmm... Is there a way for to batch process the images? https://www.itg.ias.edu/content/editing … -photoshop This assumes you have CS and are willing to do that. This also assumes you don't want her back at your place. You can then send them in a zip file to drop box. I would not provide images that really look bad and based on your work I'm sure you have a 99% success rate. Ask why she wants photos that don't look good. Explain that you only want your best to be shown and she should want that as well. Sometimes no matter your best efforts things just don't work out but be calm, listen and respond with patience.
Mar 06 14 05:59 pm Link
Charleston, South Carolina, US
I once worked with a model
whom all that know the whole story refer to as Satan...
I just call her "Miss Most Likely to Nail a Cats Head to my Front Door!"
Ignore her long enough and she will eventually fade into memory..
Ahhh... Good Times!
Mar 06 14 06:13 pm Link
UPDATE: I decided to just send the model the photos that I was submitting to the magazines and call it a day. I was not rude, just professional and to the point.
She emailed back saying "thank you, these are actually beautiful- congrats!" Then wanted to know if I would like to be credited and how. LOL
She then asked me if I could send her another one of a pose she did on the floor and after that she wouldn't bother me again.
Mar 07 14 08:11 am Link
Boston, Massachusetts, US
That wasn't so bad.
Mar 07 14 08:31 am Link
Darlington, South Carolina, US
Since you are close to me, I'd love to know who this "Satan/"Miss Most Likely to Nail a Cats Head to my Front Door!" is so I won't make the same mistake you did .
Mar 07 14 08:42 am Link
London, England, United Kingdom
Now go out there and re-shoot it with someone willing to do the job as advertised.
Mar 07 14 04:30 pm Link
Los Angeles, California, US
That's a nice end to the story.
Mar 09 14 01:07 am Link
Hamburg, Hamburg, Germany
Mar 09 14 04:33 pm Link
Lappeenranta, South Karelia, Finland
I am so sorry to hear this! Sounds like blackmail galore to me indeed. Ruffle up some unedited images, block the wench, and be done with it.
Mar 12 14 08:02 pm Link
When this first went down, I was upset because I knew we could get those published with a little more time. I don't have mentors or experienced photographers I can ask for advice regularly so I've had to muddle my way through a lot of this. This experience taught me a little somethin' though.
For 2014, I've decided that I'm going to take incidents that happen, good and bad, and treat them as a learning experience. I'm going to try and keep my own ego out of the equation when it comes to photography. I've found that over my entire experience in photography, when I let my ego run rampant, I was the one with the anger, jealousy and indigestion....whether I was right or wrong.
I know that sounds like new age guru nonsense, lol Really though, when I do that, I enjoy photography so much more.
Mar 13 14 06:55 am Link
New York, New York, US
Who runs your shoots, you or the models?
Mar 13 14 08:21 am Link
I think I covered that earlier on the 2nd page.
Mar 13 14 09:15 am Link
Norristown, Pennsylvania, US
" I was very specific in my casting call and in our conversations that the shoot was TF for magazine publication, and that she would receive hi res tears if published. She agreed to that and signed a release. "
Mar 13 14 10:17 am Link
Norristown, Pennsylvania, US
Giacomo Cirrincioni wrote:
That raises a question: You have a shoot set like the OP had. When the shoot begins, the model switches gears and says she doesn't want to do some of what was agreed upon and doesn't give it her all (like the model referred to by the OP did)...what options are there? Someone said he should have stopped the shoot. Is that really better than trying to make the best of the situation? If the model doesn't fully cooperate, ultimately what would be the best course of action?
Mar 13 14 10:28 am Link
Good question! I make the determination to end the shoot based on the current situation. Each situation is different.
Some photographers are more hardliners and have a zero tolerance policy- always, while some photographers just let anything pass- the consummate pushover.
I felt the shoot was not a disaster by any stretch. Given what was already invested in it, it was worth continuing. I've had shoots in my early MM days which I ended on the spot...but they are rare.
The models lack of emotion was an obstacle I knew I could overcome. I don't think she was doing it on purpose. For whatever reason, she wasn't giving me the lightheartedness I needed. Frankly, I saw it as a challenge and I got the playful shots I need for the submission.
MM is a fickle place. On one hand you'll find photographers criticizing that if the model isn't having her absolute best shoot ever with you that it is YOU who is at fault. That you weren't doing something right to bring it out of the model. But then you have a shoot with a model who isn't on her game 100% and the same photographers tell you that you should have ended it immediately.
Go figure! lol
Mar 13 14 11:19 am Link
Woodinville, Washington, US
It's not fickle to expect the photographer to be in charge of his or her shoot.
Mar 14 14 10:15 am Link
I agree, but I was talking about two entirely different things altogether. lol
Mar 14 14 10:29 am Link