Loki Studio wrote:
Honestly it sounds like a legitimate client and use as long as their payment clears.The  They are helpful in providing clear and helpful instructions on what they need.  The main concern is simply that $150 to split between you, the photographer, and the MUA is very little.  I don't know why any experienced model or photographer would spend 2-4 hours on a shoot and provide exclusive rights for just $50-75. 

The shoot might be viable for $300-500 with a 50% deposit.  Talk to a friendly photographer, get their rate, and make a counter offer.

Yeah... that.

SO, you're going to pay me even half would only be $75 to shoot you in a few outfits for a few hours and I'm not supposed to be able to do anything with the photos?

Only if we also shoot 2 hours of what I want that's not part of the images you send on to the client.

It sounds like an ok offer, but finding someone to agree to shooting you for it might be a more difficult task.



Thinking about it further... I don't understand why this person wants you specifically and wants the exclusivity of the images.  If he's on MM, then he should know that people offer up images to retouch for practice or whatever all the time in the DAR forum.

I can't help but think because of the specifics of the request that these images might be later sold on barely legal sites, since you have a very young look.  But I could just be paranoid.

VeronicaB wrote:
I like practicing my own editing skills, so I would just like the RAWs to work on myself.

This is for me personally, not to be published anywhere.

First, as other poster noted, $150 for model and photographer doesn't really cut it.

Second, if I was acting as the booker, there is the issue of limiting the usage rights for the model and the photographer. There would need to be a clear signed agreement about not using the images and keeping the copyright for the photographer if I were to even allow the transaction for the silly price. Allowing an hour prep for the wardrobe and make-up/hair and two hour shoot, if the photographer could be gotten for $75 and the gas & tolls leaves you with almost zip.

Wouldn't be worth the time to get a signed contract before the shoot even starts.

VeronicaB wrote:
Does this sound weird to anyone else?

What he is asking for doesn't sound too unusual if it were done in person or over the phone. Yes it does seem a bit strange to me to be totally done in emails.

VeronicaB wrote:
I don't know if I should pursue this further, any help?

If it sounds like something you'd be willing to do, why not pursue? Only reason I can think is if something were funny about payment. So I would insist on payment in advance and letting him know you would not even begin to shoot until his check clears your bank. Note: clearing is different than depositing and usually takes about ten days.

As other have noted you should negotiate much higher fees, but you didn't comment on that the fee so maybe it doesn't bother you?

VeronicaB wrote:
Because I had never heard of someone paying for a job like this one I had no idea what a good rate would be. I would need to buy the sports clothes he wanted as he requested sports bra and shorts specifically.

Sounds like you would lose money on this deal and you need to renegotiate the price.  If this is just a personal project of the client and the images will never be published it sounds like there's nothing in this for you.  If the images were going to be published in some sort of national catalog that you could point to to show your experience it would a little different.

VeronicaB wrote:
Because I had never heard of someone paying for a job like this one I had no idea what a good rate would be. I would need to buy the sports clothes he wanted as he requested sports bra and shorts specifically.

Well there are several good ideas now posted to help figure the proper amount, if you decided to move forward. But do shut it down if he asks for money from you for anything. That's how you'll know it has become a scam.

I'd also heed my previous warning about payment in advance and waiting for the check to clear.

Good Egg Productions wrote:
Thinking about it further... I don't understand why this person wants you specifically and wants the exclusivity of the images.  If he's on MM, then he should know that people offer up images to retouch for practice or whatever all the time in the DAR forum.

I can't help but think because of the specifics of the request that these images might be later sold on barely legal sites, since you have a very young look.  But I could just be paranoid.

A good possibility of this.

Did he say how many pics of each look he wants?

If he knows about MM then he should hit up photographer for images to retouch.

Maybe it is completely on the up and up but be careful.

Random Image wrote:
...  He knows what outfit he wants.   

I would break it down like this:

Photog. fee, $125
Model fee, $125 + $50 production fee.
H/MUA fee $50.

Plus wardrobe costs.

rick lesser wrote:
Ask yourself why would a client ask the potential model to find and hire the photographer?  Who does that?  If I were that photographer I would want to speak to the client to understand their vision before we shot anything.   I would ask this same question to that client.  Sounds fishy.  Very fishy.   R-

^ This

Also IMO, you're only offered 150$ that you have to split 3 ways...this is either a scam or the person is very cheap

Loki Studio wrote:
Honestly it sounds like a legitimate client and use as long as their payment clears.The  They are helpful in providing clear and helpful instructions on what they need.  The main concern is simply that $150 to split between you, the photographer, and the MUA is very little.  I don't know why any experienced model or photographer would spend 2-4 hours on a shoot and provide exclusive rights for just $50-75. 

The shoot might be viable for $300-500 with a 50% deposit.  Talk to a friendly photographer to get their rate, a MUA to get their rate, and make a counter offer.  A deposit by PayPal will quickly separate real clients from scams.

Yep.

ms-photo wrote:
Sounds like a perv that wants pictures for his "private" portfolio.

And also this, which isn't necessarily a scam.


$150 would be an odd price to offer for a scam.

g2-new photographics wrote:
It's always a scam.

They get better and better at sounding legitimate (they read the guidelines, too).

Think it through.

Because when they read what is being posted and the advises given here everyday. It doesn't take that much to figure out. I mean it's so easy, even a caveman can do it (to be a scammer).

VeronicaB wrote:
So I was reached out to by someone through my website and their offer seems legit but I'm wondering if I should ask for more information and be concerned or if this is just something I have never heard of.

first email:
Hi Veronica,
I'm emailing based on your MM profile.
Do you shoot fitness (sports bra + shorts) or swimwear style work?

second:
Hi Veronica,
To clarify, I am interested in commissioning a fitness and swimwear set from you. I found your MM profile and really liked your look so I would like to design my own concept and have you shoot it with a photographer. Hopefully you know someone local that you feel comfortable with.

Do you think for $150 you would be able to find a photographer to shoot 2 outfits in different backgrounds? I would like the photos to be exclusive to me, so not part of either your portfolio or the photographers. I like practicing my own editing skills, so I would just like the RAWs to work on myself.

third:
On the fitness side, I'd like minimal makeup and just a sports bra, workout shorts, and sneakers. Something along these lines: (links to normal fitness shots). I strongly prefer normal athletic positions (like stretching or lacing up sneakers) to artsy portrait or print poses. On the swimsuit side, I like to see a brightly colored bikini contrasted with grungy makeup or hair. Something like this: (links to examples of smoky eye). I really enjoy work that contrasts two distinct styles, like a very preppy swimsuit with vapid grungy eyes. For both, I have no preference for location as long as it's not a solid-color studio background. This is for me personally, not to be published anywhere.

Does this sound weird to anyone else? I left out my emails only because I was asking the questions and these were his answers. I don't know if I should pursue this further, any help? Thank you!

VeronicaB wrote:
Because I had never heard of someone paying for a job like this one I had no idea what a good rate would be. I would need to buy the sports clothes he wanted as he requested sports bra and shorts specifically.

Models are asked to shoot for "private collections" all the time, so this isn't unheard of.  And yes, "private collections" often mean spank bank, where the big turn on is that it's a commissioned shoot instead of anonymous pics pulled from the internet.

It may not be a scam, but for $150 it a ridiculous request.

VeronicaB wrote:
New email update:
(My email) Just to clear up a few things, I have a few questions.  How many shots are you looking for?  How do you want them delivered to you.
What is your time frame for delivery of the pics.
Please let me know so I can talk to my photographer and get back to you.  Would you be willing to sign a release stating the photos are not for commercial use?

(His reply)
At least a dozen, sent over email. This isn't for a portfolio, so they don't all need to be the "best" shot. I'm not very picky on the total number, but I would expect more than a couple.
I am flexible on timeline. Sooner is better because this is an experiment to see if I enjoy it, but there is not a strict deadline. I would probably lose some interest if it doesn't happen in a couple weeks.
I am happy to confirm plain-English details with you via email (which is just as legally binding) but I am unlikely to involve an attorney to review a document over this.

This is sounding less and less desirable on my end...It sounds a lot like what I see on Craigslist ads for private "collections"

Just tell him you'll do it and find out what he wants next.  f he says he wants to mail you a check, then tell him you will only accept a Western Union money transfer.  If it's a scam, he'll stop right there and tell you you're not what he's looking for.  If he's legit, then he'll send you the money.

Regardless, it stinks of a scam.  But, you won't know for sure unless you go a little further with it .  You can walk away now and not have to worry about it any further, or you can see just how far down the rabbit hole goes.  My advice, is just don't give him your home address, email addrress, or PayPal info at any point until you're sure this is a legitimate offer.  That'll likely never happen though, so it'll probably never get to that point.

I think it'd be good for everyone to know what this guy's angle is though, so we can be more aware of the tactics these guys are using and possibly warn the next model who gets an offer like this.

It's up to you though.  No harm in blocking him now.

Chuckarelei wrote:
The fact that op stated the 'potential scammer' saw her profile here on MM, and then the 'potential scammer' can read all these posts, advises, and suggestions written here on MM. I'm sure the 'potential scammer' is having a field day laughing.

Best entertainment, period.

Scammers don't tend to waste a lot of time reading.  They're more concerned about sending blanket emails to potential victims and hoping for a nibble.  They also don't care if they lose a bite, because at least one person out there will take the bait and send them a large chunk of money. 

So, the more information we can get out there about these guys, the harder it will be for them to find victims.

For example, one of the more recent scams going on out there is someone calling a person or a business up and claiming to be from the IRS  They tell the victim they owe some back taxes and need to pay it RIGHT NOW, or else the police will be coming to arrest them.  They then direct the person to go to a store and buy these MoneyPak cards for the amount owed, and then have the victim read off the card numbers to them.  Once they have that, it's as good as cash in their wallet.  They're taking people for thousands of dollars by preying on their fear of being in trouble with the law.

Another one they're using, is claiming to be from the Electric Company and threatening to turn off the power if the victim doesn't pay them right away.  They normally target businesses that rely on electricity throughout the day, so the bills can be well over $500.  Imagine if you owned a studio and got that call?  Like I said, better we share the info and help each other out. 

Even if the scammer does actually read this, then who cares?  I'd rather he see we're on to him and give him reason to go somewhere else to look for victims.

VeronicaB wrote:
Because I had never heard of someone paying for a job like this one I had no idea what a good rate would be. I would need to buy the sports clothes he wanted as he requested sports bra and shorts specifically.

So for $150, you have to buy the clothes, do your make up, then find a photographer who would be willing to shoot it for little money AND give up all rights to the images?  This person somehow got your email from Modelmayhem?  Do they have a profile, or contacted you though this website?  It's good to ask questions, as it just seems odd. 

As a photographer, I would be willing to pay you $150 for two houirs of your modeling time, and doing so I'd retain the copyrights, but I would give you some images to use here on Modelmayhem.   I've done it before.

VeronicaB wrote:
New email update:
(My email) Just to clear up a few things, I have a few questions.  How many shots are you looking for?  How do you want them delivered to you.
What is your time frame for delivery of the pics.
Please let me know so I can talk to my photographer and get back to you.  Would you be willing to sign a release stating the photos are not for commercial use?

(His reply)
At least a dozen, sent over email. This isn't for a portfolio, so they don't all need to be the "best" shot. I'm not very picky on the total number, but I would expect more than a couple.
I am flexible on timeline. Sooner is better because this is an experiment to see if I enjoy it, but there is not a strict deadline. I would probably lose some interest if it doesn't happen in a couple weeks.
I am happy to confirm plain-English details with you via email (which is just as legally binding) but I am unlikely to involve an attorney to review a document over this.

This is sounding less and less desirable on my end...It sounds a lot like what I see on Craigslist ads for private "collections"

An "experiment?"  to see if he will "enjoy it?"    ... OMG!  I get the creeps reading that ... and I'm not even a potential model!    Yes, smells like a Craigslist creeper.

Eros Fine Art Photo wrote:
Scammers don't tend to waste a lot of time reading.  They're more concerned about sending blanket emails to potential victims and hoping for a nibble.  They also don't care if they lose a bite, because at least one person out there will take the bait and send them a large chunk of money. 

So, the more information we can get out there about these guys, the harder it will be for them to find victims.

For example, one of the more recent scams going on out there is someone calling a person or a business up and claiming to be from the IRS  They tell the victim they owe some back taxes and need to pay it RIGHT NOW, or else the police will be coming to arrest them.  They then direct the person to go to a store and buy these MoneyPak cards for the amount owed, and then have the victim read off the card numbers to them.  Once they have that, it's as good as cash in their wallet.  They're taking people for thousands of dollars by preying on their fear of being in trouble with the law.

Another one they're using, is claiming to be from the Electric Company and threatening to turn off the power if the victim doesn't pay them right away.  They normally target businesses that rely on electricity throughout the day, so the bills can be well over $500.  Imagine if you owned a studio and got that call?  Like I said, better we share the info and help each other out. 

Even if the scammer does actually read this, then who cares?  I'd rather he see we're on to him and give him reason to go somewhere else to look for victims.

How do you know?

No, posts, advises, and suggestions like this will only encourage scammers to lurk for fish. They are thinking..., these people are actually even giving this a slight and falling for it.

Geez?