Nikki C0z wrote:
What should I do?

1) Ask for your money back.

2) Work with someone else.

Lallure Photographic wrote:
I will assume you were doing trade for photos. (When you post these issues, we really need to know more info......who (names not required allowed), what, where, when, why.......are the basics of being able to offer advice.)

I recommend that you do not pester the photographer too much.

FlirtynFun Photography wrote:
1. was this a paid shoot where you were paid?

Sorry -- but I think this is irrelevant.  What is relevant:  Did the photographer promise images?

The first thing the OP can do is to learn a lesson:  In particular...

...  Discuss the photographer's obligation, including the number & size of images, the presence or absence of watermarks, your usage rights, and the expected delivery date.  Document the terms of the agreement in an e-mail.

...  Understand that some people are more reliable than others.  Learn to be selective when choosing photographers.  Your best bet -- check references.

...  Yes, checking references is difficult.  To make it easier, get to know your local photographic community.  If people know & trust you, they will be more likely to share references & recommendations with you.

...  You can tell your model friends about your experiences.  You should not tell your sad story to strangers who haven't asked for it.  You should not broadcast your disappointment in any way (for example, don't create a "not recommended" list on your profile).

...  There are threads floating around, started by models & asking what their legal recourse is when a photographer disappears.  My take -- don't bother.  It will do you more harm than good.  You may get pictures; you may get terrible & ugly pictures; you may get a reputation that will scare other photographers off.

...  Be prolific.  Work with lots of photographers.  Many of them will come through for you.


Good luck.

Nikki C0z wrote:
Hello,

I worked with a photographer on here, and we first met to be comfy with each other. Then we set up a date to shoot, he showed me the photos on his camera, signed the normal form and he double checked my mailing address. However after the shoot not once as he gotten a hold of me, responded to text messages, voice mail messages, MM messages, etc. It has been a couple of months and I checked, he was just on the site yesterday.

What should I do?

Thanks,
Nikki C0z

Send him a quote for your time. Which he will probably ignore and just move on...

Next time try to get whatever you agree upon in writing, it's not fool proof but it might help.

RSH-Photography wrote:
Photographers like this are jerks, just like models who flake. Unfortunately photographers who don't share images and models who don't show up are a fact of life here. It's frustrating and infuriating, but there's not much to be done about it.

That pretty much sums it up.

Hunter  GWPB wrote:
As stated above, this is a common problem, and a common thread.  I am going to suggest that you read this thread:

https://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thre … 360&page=1

It is less than two pages.   Most importantly, the woman did what was needed to get her pictures.   There may be some insight for you.

I wouldn't use this thread as a good example because the model there PAID, it was not TFP.

Darren Brade wrote:
OP, is it not possible to visit the photographer in person if they are not responding to messages?

Good god,
I am slow at editing but if someone showed up my doorstop,
That would FREAK me out'

And you?
You want this to happen to you if you were late?

Nikki C0z wrote:
Hello,

I worked with a photographer on here, and we first met to be comfy with each other. Then we set up a date to shoot, he showed me the photos on his camera, signed the normal form and he double checked my mailing address. However after the shoot not once as he gotten a hold of me, responded to text messages, voice mail messages, MM messages, etc. It has been a couple of months and I checked, he was just on the site yesterday.

What should I do?

Thanks,
Nikki C0z

As far as getting the current photos there are no guarantees, sorry but it does happen sometimes. The most dramatic thing you can realistically do if you're feeling particularly bitter is put "Do not recommend Clem Peckerhed, MM 12345 - did not deliver photos " on your port. I don't recommend doing this as many potential future collaborators will fear you're a drama queen and avoid you. Sucks bad I know. Best revenge is a life well lived, do another great photo shoot with someone else

Going forward,

- check references of photographers - not just safety but quality and producing photos
- analyse photographer's portfolio, tags, and particularly credit list - a history of happy models is a good sign
- Ask photographer how many photos normally provided and estimated time frame for delivery
- Allow for an occasional shoot to not produce great results - it just happens sometimes.


All the best

Looknsee Photography wrote:

Sorry -- but I think this is irrelevant.  What is relevant:  Did the photographer promise images?

If you re-read the OP...it says nothing about promising images. I have never paid a model and made it my obligation to produce anything for said model. I've freely given images shot from a paid gig and I've been hired to shoot and delivered images. I just find it weird that someone would pay a model and then promise them images.

If the OP paid the photographer, I'd go after them legally, even if it's small claims. That's theft of service.

As mentioned, if it's TF...move on and choose reliable photographers in the future.

Darren Brade wrote:
I wouldn't use this thread as a good example because the model there PAID, it was not TFP.

So, you are saying that TF is free?  There was still a contract for the exchange of services.   She paid.  She paid with time and she should receive what was bargained for.

The thread I referenced applies because it indicates the effort one must go through to collect what is owed; because it shows that there can be satisfaction; there is an alternative to sucking it up and taking it on the chin; and that the advice the model received was inconsistent with the lawyers opinion.  The thread is just another resource.  Albeit, with a different outcome than the weekly thread that is started on this subject, by another model using her first post.

Image 4 The Future wrote:
Never sign a release before you get the images.

Ummm...what? What photographer in their right mind would work on images that they can't use?

空 wrote:
Good god,
I am slow at editing but if someone showed up my doorstop,
That would FREAK me out'

And you?
You want this to happen to you if you were late?

I can take a long time too, but the difference is I don't IGNORE models, when they take time, I explain the delay. The OP has tried several means of contacting the photographer in question and has ignored her.

Would you prefer her to jump straight to legal proceedings?

Bringing in lawyers will bump up costs on both sides.

If people don't want models turning up on their doorsteps, communicate with them, not ignore them.

Hunter  GWPB wrote:

So, you are saying that TF is free?  There was still a contract for the exchange of services.   She paid.  She paid with time and she should receive what was bargained for.

The thread I referenced applies because it indicates the effort one must go through to collect what is owed; because it shows that there can be satisfaction; there is an alternative to sucking it up and taking it on the chin; and that the advice the model received was inconsistent with the lawyers opinion.  The thread is just another resource.  Albeit, with a different outcome than the weekly thread that is started on this subject, by another model using her first post.

Please don't put words in my mouth, there is nowhere I said that a TF shoot is free.

Yes there is a difference legally pursuing when money is involved hence MY post.

Image 4 The Future wrote:
Never sign a release before you get the images.

**********     BAD  ADVICE        ***********
Best advice for photographers, don't take your camera out until the releases are signed.  No release means no shoot.

Darren Brade wrote:
OP, is it not possible to visit the photographer in person if they are not responding to messages?

Im going to show up at doorstep of models that flake on shoots

Pictures of Life wrote:
**********     BAD  ADVICE        ***********
Best advice for photographers, don't take your camera out until the releases are signed.  No release means no shoot.

^^^^^^ VERY BAD ADVICE^^^^^^^

Do not sign a release until you know what you are signing a release for. You may not want what some photographers end up shooting without your knollege out of your control.
Models need to maintain control of their image and they need to have some leverage to get Images and what was agreed upon.

Face it you work with mostly internet strangers when you model. You can get duped by a fake online portfolio by some perv that doesn't know anything about what he is doing at all. Or some hack that is just taking close ups of slips and wardrobe malfunctions or changes. Do you really want him to have photos of you that he can do anything he wants with that you haven't even seen?

It is VERY stupid to sign a release before you see the product and review what specific images you agree to release. Especially in a TF situation. It is stupid to sign a blank release in any situation.
Sign only what the original agreed upon uses were for and for the specific images that fit those uses only.
And yes wait until you receive your images that were promised in a TF shoot before signing any release is very good advice. And don't sign a release at all if you are not happy with the results sent to you.
This wont stop this scam but it well help slow it down a bit. If a photographer knows you aren't stupid chances are he wont fuck with you.

And the ones that won't work with you because you wont sign a release upfront? Oh well probably better off anyway. I have NEVER met ONE true pro shooter that has a problem with releases. No problem either waiting or getting them signed. Why? Its simple they keep their word and produce exactly what they said they would. And would never ever use a image for unintended/agreed purposes.
Most of the photographers you will work with from MM are not Pro shooters. And even if they are in one genre they may not be in the genre that you are working with them on. So you have to be real careful.

And as a matter of fact, it is not the photographers job to get a release for a publication. It is that publication that needs to get the release. In my experiences that is always the way it has gone down.
Most Pros don't even ask for a release. If they find an intended purpose for the images then they will explain that purpose and have a specified release for you to sign and very specific to that purpose.

Brooklyn Bridge Images wrote:
Im going to show up at doorstep of models that flake on shoots

In many jurisdictions that can be considered stalking or at least harassment.
If someone flakes on you there might be a reason. They may have decided that it would be unsafe for them to work with you or they just don't feel comfortable after talking to someone that you have worked with.
Why would you want to take it any farther?
And why would you want anything to do with someone who doesn't show the professional attitude of showing up anyway. Either way you showing up on their door step shows only ill intentions on your part. Scary!

Magic Image  Pin Up wrote:
Make sure next time you do a shoot you come prepared with your own flash drive or down loader and lap top this way you can ask to have the images or copies down loaded to your laptop most photographers will not want to do this as many don't like models to edit or have all the work taken from them. but it is worth a try good luck.

Ah no - just no.

This is bad advice and certainly not "worth a try".

Magic Image  Pin Up wrote:
Make sure next time you do a shoot you come prepared with your own flash drive or down loader and lap top this way you can ask to have the images or copies down loaded to your laptop most photographers will not want to do this as many don't like models to edit or have all the work taken from them. but it is worth a try good luck.

It's following idiotic advice like this that gets models a bad name.

Lallure Photographic wrote:
Therein lies the problem with working with photogs who only use the photos for personal purposes.

What is this suppose to mean?  Working with a "professional" does not guarantee anything more than working with an Amateur / Hobbyist as this statement would imply.  Not better images, not quality image, not  reliability not timeliness... nothing!

Amateur / Hobbyist probably will be shooting images for personal purpose like strictly for creative purposes, using for shows, galleries, art contest, personal portfolio... so what. 

It is quite unfortunate that this happens!  Outside of doing your research by asking for references from other models & photographers in your creative community that have worked with that person about how reliable they are, there is not really anything that you can do to guarantee that this situation will not happen,