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She scammed me !?!
-- This is unique event for me. Was contacted by a newer model on MM requesting a trade lingerie/boudoir shoot. She appeared attractive, in her early 30's and though had a few specific requests, we did the shoot. It went smoothly. I did not verify ID on shoot. This was a total trade shoot and we both signed an agreement and each retained copies which specifically states: "4) specific images given to the model may be used in any manner she wishes. If model uses images for print or poster sales, or any commercial or money-making purposes, the photographer must grant specific permission and participate equally in any monies generated." So five weeks later, I do a Google search on one of the images and this pops up. http://www.theeroticreview.com/discussi … ge=1#10949 Eight of images from studio shoot are mine ! The full nudes are not mine. Turns out the gal is an escort who wanted the images done to advertise her local availability at $400. an hour ! And was too cheap to offer any payment. And never wanted images for her own portfolio "development". And I do not really care how she pays her bills, but do feel very much taken advantage of by this person. Yes, I have contacted her and she refuses to pay anything and has not removed the images. Also contacted the hosting website and they say it is not their problem. Am a serious hobbyist, never expect to make any money shooting glamour styles. And have actually gotten fairly good at it. But am intelligent guy and do not like being misled or cheated by anyone, I do not treat people that way, and demand the same in return. 1) Should I forget the whole deal 2) Mark it up to stupidity, hers or mine 3) Pursue legal action, sure to cost me couple thousand bucks and lots of hassle, and if a "win", get civil judgement impossible to collect on 4) Post this similar question in Model Mayhem forums 5) Have already CAMed it, but "model" deleted her account the same day. What do you think ? ----- Oct 28 14 02:02 pm Link Oct 28 14 02:03 pm Link That's very popular here, I know a lot of local photographers who do pictures for escorts to use on CL ads. I suppose next time you should ask what the pictures are to be used for .... Perhaps remind her about the release she has signed and that you'll take action. Oct 28 14 02:06 pm Link How exactly do you feel cheated? Is it because you found out she's making as much as most people make a week in only 1 hour? Or is it because she didn't come out and say "I'm an escort, and these photos will be used to promote my escort-ness"? Would you have felt better if she offered payment or at least told you the full details of how she would use the photos? Oct 28 14 02:07 pm Link she "appeared" attractive? Oct 28 14 02:07 pm Link Also remember you are OUTING this person and posting a link to a illegal adult acts. so you might wanna remove the link Oct 28 14 02:10 pm Link L A U B E N H E I M E R wrote: Yes, in the cell phone pics she sent pre-shoot...... Oct 28 14 02:16 pm Link Danielle Reid wrote: This seems to be the root of it: StayFocused wrote: Apparently she didn't do that.. so he feels cheated because she's breaking the terms of the signed contract. Oct 28 14 02:17 pm Link Amber Dawn - Colorado wrote: Can't "OUT" someone who is already gone. Oct 28 14 02:17 pm Link The stuff that jumps out for me... StayFocused wrote: Sorry, but I don't see the problem. You gave her permission to use the images "in any manner she wishes". Your provided a vague restriction against "print sales or commercial purposes", but since she is not selling or licensing the images, I don't see that she is in violation of this restriction. Oct 28 14 02:23 pm Link OP, did you get images you were or are happy with? If so then don't worry about what she did with the photos. She used them to promote herself and aren't you free to do the same. There are models on MM who do adult work and use images done from trades as content on their sites. One is very popular. Should she pay? Why if photographers she trades with are happy to do TF. That said I get how you feel but offering or doing TF means that people may use your work all kinds of ways and won't tell you. It comes with the territory. Think this way she isn't selling the photos she's using them to try and get work. Oct 28 14 02:25 pm Link " That said I get how you feel but offering or doing TF means that people may use your work all kinds of ways and won't tell you. It comes with the territory. Think this way she isn't selling the photos she's using them to try and get work." Yep, that is right. Very well put. Thanks for the thought. Oct 28 14 02:30 pm Link Technically, she is using the pics only to promote her work, only difference is that instead of selling modelling services she sells escort services. I can see why you feel cheated but the wording in your agreement does not help you. Oct 28 14 02:34 pm Link LOL too funny....not sure why you care though. If you feel slighted about the money why don't you pose naked and give her the camera next time? Oct 28 14 02:46 pm Link Danielle Reid wrote: He feels cheated because the images where for commercial use and not portfolio use it sounds like. He was mislead. It's no different than if a model said it was for her port and then put it on the cover of a pay site. Two totally different usage licenses. Oct 28 14 02:46 pm Link StayFocused wrote: Many models use photos from TF shoots to advertise their local availability. It sounds like you are feeling like you were cheated because of how much she charges, not necessarily because of how she is using the images, hence the "too cheap" comment. Oct 28 14 02:57 pm Link Leighthenubian wrote: Nice idea.....and at my standard industry rates of course. Oct 28 14 03:02 pm Link StayFocused wrote: I think that your "contract" may have some problems. Though a court may try to parse the ambiguity and give you some leeway, the clause is contradictory. It should have said "may be used in any manner she wishes except in the following..." Oct 28 14 03:08 pm Link OP:Bottom line if you want to control your photos you would have to do paid shoots and never share images with the model. No Contract, Paper, Spell or Voodoo doll can prevent misuse. Next time avoid newbie profiles and look for people who have a rep you can check on. Oct 28 14 03:17 pm Link This is a general comment. Models on this site with a few cell phone shots or poorly done nudes feel they should charge and do and often people pay them. Photographers listen up. When you have solid usable work it has value. The OP has good work and most of you do so why is it you give it away. Look carefully at the models who ask you to shoot or before you ask them. Are you asking because they are willing to pop out of their kit or do they add real value to what you do. Several months ago a escort approached me about a shoot. She was honest and said her funds were limited but she offered me money. I appreciated her candor. Once you give all you have for free its loses any value it might have. Signed release or not models may decide to use your work anyway they want. I'm not saying not to test to improve your book but choose carefully. Understand that some of the models may have a very real use for your work and are too cheap to pay someone to do it for them. Models value themselves and you should as well. Oct 28 14 03:21 pm Link It's very common. I could name at least a dozen models on here just in the Boston area who are escorts. I've been told that it's even suggested on the private escort forums to seek TFP shoots with photographers for advertising pictures rather than actually pay for them. There's also alternative definitions of TFP suggested on those forums as well... Personally, I have no problem doing shoots with escorts if they're paying me. But if I find out they're trying to scam me into a free shoot so they can advertise a commercial service, then I start sending out the DMCA notices. Oct 28 14 03:23 pm Link Thanks Tony ! Oct 28 14 03:24 pm Link The wording you used in your agreement placed no limits. Re-read that wording. There are very few situations, where legal action will actually provide any financial benefit to a photographer. There simply isn't enough money involved for most situations. Oct 28 14 03:26 pm Link You got duped. Chalk it up as a lesson learned. We shouldn't GIVE ANYTHING AWAY for any commercial purpose. A picture for somebody to use in an portfolio -- online or otherwise -- isn't the same as a picture used in an advertisement. Your TF* contract should state NO COMMERCIAL USE without permission and compensation. Oct 28 14 03:33 pm Link StayFocused wrote: Up in these parts of the country- Because; you provided the contract, the wording and the placement of those words in the contract,,,, you're fucked. Oct 28 14 03:35 pm Link Sounds like a life lesson to me. Learn from it. In the scheme of things, is this really worth what you're putting yourself through? Oct 28 14 03:38 pm Link You can now add PORN to your skills  Oct 28 14 03:43 pm Link David M Russell wrote: I don't think hooking is "commercial" Oct 28 14 03:44 pm Link A big Thanks to all of the Forum Legal Minds and their varying opinions. But the OP likes this one absolutely the best: "There are very few situations, where legal action will actually provide any financial benefit to a photographer. There simply isn't enough money involved for most situations." And since I did not have to spend that $400. an hour on a Phoenix lawyer in a fancy suit, am thinking should perhaps spend that $400 an hour, on a.........oh, you know. Later, am going out for brewskis. Oct 28 14 03:55 pm Link Nico Simon Princely wrote: So in other words, if she uses the photos to promote herself as a model that's OK but if she uses the photos to promote herself as an escort it's not? That sounds really stupid to me and IMO the OP didn't get cheated one iota. He's complaining because she's using the photos to market herself as a prostitute at $400/hour but he's be perfectly fine if she used the photos to sell her modeling services at $400/hour? It sounds like a butthurt photographer to me. StayFocused wrote: WOW is this poorly written. My bet is an attorney never looked at this release/license agreement. The way I read this mess is much different than I think you assumed it meant. The way I see this, it's intended for if the model sells the photos for commercial use, say, as stock. As far as I'm concerned, she's 100% within her rights to use the images the way she did. And the fact that you whine because she couldn't pay you I find to be just laughable. Hookers are used to playing guys on a regular basis...guess what dude, she played you like a Stradivarius! Oct 28 14 03:58 pm Link Danielle Reid wrote: I don't care what she does for a living. If she's advertising -- a service, a product, whatever -- for a venture in which she intends to make money, that's a commercial use. Oct 28 14 04:06 pm Link Shot By Adam wrote: He may be butt hurt I don't know. Oct 28 14 04:09 pm Link MM is a model site therefore the op went into contract with the assumed knowledge that the girl will use the images to promote her modeling. This was not the case as the model ! had an ulterior motive... 'obtaining services by deception'. The deception was using the pic's to promote herself as a prostitute. It can also damage the op be it family, friends or work associates if they link the photographer with the prostitute/images thinking that he associates with prostitutes. Oct 28 14 04:10 pm Link StayFocused wrote: Shot By Adam wrote: My guess is that if the OP participates equally in any monies generated (from the escort biz) that would make him a pimp as well. Oct 28 14 04:15 pm Link StayFocused wrote: Hi, Oct 28 14 04:23 pm Link StayFocused wrote: Yes. StayFocused wrote: Yes. StayFocused wrote: No StayFocused wrote: No. Oct 28 14 04:25 pm Link Lallure Photographic wrote: +1 Oct 28 14 04:28 pm Link David M Russell wrote: Modeling is a service...but it's ok if she uses the photos for "modeling" but god forbid she sells her body for any other unholy reason Oct 28 14 04:43 pm Link OP you should post your photography services on escort sites and charge. Those ladies are looking for sexy, yet discrete photos. Make sure you tell them they aren't allowed to charge $400/hour Oct 28 14 04:46 pm Link StayFocused wrote: So, your photo usage agreement specifies that you have to give her permission to prostitute herself if she uses pictures you took, and that you demand to participate equally in the act of prostitution with her? Oct 28 14 04:48 pm Link |
