Forums > Off-Topic Discussion > Dealing with police ....

Photographer

Lightcraft Studio

Posts: 13682

Las Vegas, Nevada, US

Hunter  GWPB wrote:

They jailed him for firearms charges.  He eventually got time served (9 months) and lots of probation.  The DA was pushing for 10 years (as a deal- 20 without a guilty plea) and a felony conviction.  The daughter was admitting she lied.  I went to one of the hearings and the ADA knew she was going to recant.  The ADA told her on the stand, if she changed her story, she would go to jail for perjury.  She didn't recant.  Eventually she got busted for drugs when the post office intercepted pot from CA.  Then the DA reduced the charges to a misdemeanor.  In the meantime, she robbed her dad blind.  DA never once asked for his side of the story.

I'm assuming his weapons were legal, and the charges were something along the line of making terrorizing threats or something like that?  It sounds like he had horrible legal representation. Is he still fighting to get his record cleared?
Was this is your area (I spent most of my life in your neighborhood)?

Dec 29 14 08:37 pm Link

Photographer

Click Hamilton

Posts: 36555

San Diego, California, US

The behavior and attitude of police vary widely by state, country, and the department they are representing.

It depends.

Dec 30 14 04:35 am Link

Photographer

FIFTYONE PHOTOGRAPHY

Posts: 6597

Uniontown, Pennsylvania, US

I had some Firearms stolen from My residence, forced entry. When the Police arrived the questioning turned to Me, What was I doing with said Firearms? I had to remind the Detective that it is My Constitutional right to own one.

If they (the Police) show up at the door for an unknown reason before producing any identification I would like to know the reason for their visit.

'Is there a problem Officer?'

Dec 30 14 05:17 am Link

Photographer

hbutz New York

Posts: 3923

Ronkonkoma, New York, US

This happened to me.  The cops received a call from someone in the apartment complex but could not determine which unit.  The last two numbers they had matched mine so I get a knock on the door in the middle of the night.  I wake up, answer the door, and they're asking me if I was [so and so].  No.  Then they asked me what my name was.  I hesitated, knowing I did not have to answer.  I felt at the time that, if someone was really in trouble, it was best to assist in finding them.  They did not ask for ID.

Dec 30 14 05:28 am Link

Model

KelliOnLineGlamourNude

Posts: 2999

Barrie, Ontario, Canada

Whenever a cop shows up or calls it's to tell me someone I love died, so I would just panic and turn into a mess. This is one time I've actually seen some decency in them and they seem to really sympathize.

Although, I was stopped one time on the street while I was walking to an audition and they asked for my I.D. I was somewhat co-operative ( I was really hesitant and didn't trust they were even cops ) . . . I was really suspicious of the way they went about it and the things they were saying to me. It was a really bizarre experience.

Dec 30 14 05:56 am Link

Artist/Painter

Hunter GWPB

Posts: 8155

King of Prussia, Pennsylvania, US

Lightcraft Studio wrote:
I'm assuming his weapons were legal, and the charges were something along the line of making terrorizing threats or something like that?  It sounds like he had horrible legal representation. Is he still fighting to get his record cleared?
Was this is your area (I spent most of my life in your neighborhood)?

The legal representation was terrible.  The lawyer was a sleaze that used inmates to get referrals.  The lawyer told him to sign a document.  The document turned out to be a waiver on how long they could hold him.  Last I heard, they were going to sue the lawyer, but I haven't kept up.  I don't know.

I doubt he will ever get his record cleared.  He plead guilty to get out.

The weapons were legal.  Only stolen weapons would be illegal.  Or something that required a specific license (full auto) without a license.  The cops didn't take the guns from the house.  The daughter sold them on the street.  Along with his pain meds.

This started when he came home one day, there were drug buyers in his house, alone.  They refused to leave.  He took his weapon to his back yard firing range and shot a few rounds.  The drug buyers fled.  They met the drug dealer (daughter) at the end of the driveway.  When the daughter got to the house, she attacked her father and tried to shoot him.  The gun discharged during the  struggle.  The wife got hurt by a fragment from a ricochet.  But it was the daughter that called the police so she got to frame the story.  They beat him when they arrested him.  Full swat.  He didn't know they were there.  He went out for a smoke, unarmed.

As I said, she was eventually arrested on drug charges.  If I recall correctly, she supplied evidence against other people and got a year probation.  She dealt pot to heroin.  The mother refused to believe her kid was involved.

Same county. 

A customer of mine had/has a mentally .... wacko wife.  She called the cops and said he had a gun and threatened her.  They arrested him at their farm and couldn't find the gun (there was no gun).  So they lifted him up by the cuffs while he lay face down on the ground and demanded to know where the gun was.  And they repeated it.  And repeated.  And repeated.  The cops broke his back.  The wife refused to testify at the federal hearing so they let the cops walk.

Dec 30 14 06:47 am Link

Artist/Painter

Hunter GWPB

Posts: 8155

King of Prussia, Pennsylvania, US

Consider this:   Many of you are saying that you haven't done anything wrong, so there is no problem with showing them your ID.  Would the police feel the same way?  I do not believe they would and I use as evidence, the resistance the police have towards using video cameras.  Why is a dashboard camera only on when the emergency beacons are activated?  If the camera was on when you blew through the red light, they would have evidence of you blowing through the red light.  The same problem exist with the body cameras.  If they were wearing a body camera, there could be evidence of a person running, resisting, mugging or other criminal behavior.  The resulting video could help clear a cop when an arrest results in the the bodily harm of an arrestee.  But the police resist.  Why?  Because they know that the video/audio can also be used as evidence against them.  Why should this matter?   They are the police.  They are highly trained and sworn to upload the law.  Why should they have the slightest concern abut what is caught on video?

The cost is prohibitive?  They spare no expense on weapons and gear.  Isn't a camera just another piece of gear?

Dec 30 14 07:32 am Link

Photographer

WIP

Posts: 15973

Cheltenham, England, United Kingdom

Ask the police officer for his badge number/station.
Ask what it is in connection with.
Show them your ID.

Dec 30 14 07:58 am Link

Photographer

Click Hamilton

Posts: 36555

San Diego, California, US

Click Hamilton wrote:
The behavior and attitude of police vary widely by state, country, and the department they are representing.

It depends.

"Cops" ... "Police Officers" ... crime investigators, Highway Patrol, CHP (different in CA than the rest of the country), Sheriffs, small-town police, Marshals, Texas Rangers, police who deliver eviction notices, drug & gang divisions, Dade County police, convention and festival police, House Dicks, security guards ... etc., should not all be lumped into the same category. They vary widely with purpose, qualification, mission, attitude, local culture, weaponry and levels of authority. Obnoxious Cushman scooter cops who write tickets all day long to raise revenue are far different from the paramilitary swat teams kicking in doors.

----

What happened in the aftermath of all the warrant-less searches and abuse of citizens that we saw on video cameras when so many paramilitary police fanned out from seemingly nowhere in search of the Boston Marathon bombers?

That was heady stuff.

Who were those guys, armed to the teeth? Certainly not traffic cops from the local precinct.

When we have a pack of guys jacked up on adrenalin shoving automatic weapons in our face as they come into our homes, I think the best response would be hands up and comply, or drop flat to the ground, then hope we don't get shot by accident as collateral damage.

As citizens of the United States (land of the free, home of the brave), we should know when and why our Constitutional rights are trampled or suspended, under what authority, by whom, on who's orders, and the consequences of those actions.

This is the United States of America, a Constitutional Republic, of, by and for the people through elected representatives.

Right?

-----

EDIT:
An interesting sidebar: I just googled "United States of America" to see what form of government we have.
https://www.google.com/search?q=United+ … p;oe=utf-8

The google summary block says we are a Federal Republic. I grew up hearing that we are a Constitutional Republic. Did something change while I was taking a nap? Am I missing something here?

https://www.google.com/search?q=define+ … p;oe=utf-8
https://www.google.com/search?q=define+ … l+republic

*headscratch


Under the MM rules of censorship, I will not elaborate further, but I would like to provide a link to those who are interested in additional surfing and reading on their own beyond the confines of this forum:
https://www.google.com/search?q=paramil … p;oe=utf-8

As citizens, I think it is important that we know and understand these things about the way our country is rapidly evolving/transforming.

Have a nice day   smile

.... and a Happy New Year to ALL!

Dec 30 14 08:11 am Link

Photographer

Justin

Posts: 22389

Fort Collins, Colorado, US

Justin wrote:
If I need to have something notarized, the notary might ask me, "Are you Justin?" I say yes. The notary says, "May I see a photo ID?" It's not because the notary disbelieves me, necessarily. It's because establishing identity is a part of the notary's job.

Lovely Day Media wrote:
A notary is just doing their job. It's the same (to me) as going to the DMV to register a car, renew a license or most anything else.

Sure. And that's why I gave examples of where police officers may need to see ID as a part of doing their job.

Dec 30 14 08:35 am Link

Photographer

Click Hamilton

Posts: 36555

San Diego, California, US

On several occasions code enforcement people from the city have asked to enter my properties. They like to think they have the authority of various kinds of police, but they do not.  They are armed with clipboards and an attitude like they want to bust people for something.

My smiley, cheerful response is always the same when they ask to enter a property:

"Sure! ... as soon as you show me your warrant or written authorization for doing so."

"Show me your papers" (as the expression goes)


So far, they have always been on fishing expeditions without a specific purpose. Usually it's in response to a complaint by someone who is trying to hassle me. Once we let them in, maybe they can find something that they can use against us. I don't know all the tricks they have at their disposal for getting us to incriminate ourselves.

Nobody in this situation has ever produced any papers. I do not know the extent of the legal authority of code enforcement department employees. If they have something in writing, I am ready to photograph it with my iphone, which I think is saved to my icloud, for my legal file. After I do my due diligence to the best of my reasonable ability, I may or may not let them enter to fish for violations or other evidence they might use against me. It depends on their purpose for asking and my understanding of any papers they show me. If I don't understand the situation, then I ask for permission to show my copies of their papers to a lawyer or representative of a legal rights property owners association, and I ask them to make an appointment with me to enter the property at a later date after I can arrange for legal representation.

That is not a refusal to cooperate. It's a matter of managing the situation forward with common sense and proper executive decisions that should be expected from a person in my position. I have authority and responsibilities too. We all have to do our jobs.

Lawyers handle these situations differently as well. Put yourselves in the shoes of other professionals and think it through.

To grovel, batt our eyelashes or suck up should not be on our list of responses. We can all be professionals, to the best of our ability.

Cops are cops. They come with a specific purpose. Legal issues are often beyond the scope of their job duties.

Dec 30 14 09:09 am Link

Photographer

wr not here

Posts: 1632

Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada

The Grey Forest wrote:

This comment is so out of line, it doesn't belong here   ...truly offensive behavior by a "Moderator"
you just reduced this point to a "Produce your papers or we will beat you senseless in your own home" as permissible violence by the police.  wtf ?

Are you implying that a moderator should not have an opinion?
Or are you saying that the only opinion a moderator should have is the one that agrees with you.

I read JoJo's post and went looking for the non existent "like" button.

In all things, we have the choice of doing things the hard way or the easy way. Are there bad cops out there? Absolutely. Are the chances of a bad one knocking on your door good?
That's a harder question to answer, isn't it?
However, if it's a good cop and you play nice with him, you have no worries. If it's a bad cop and you don't play nice with him, you are in for a world of hurting before he will be done with your sorry ass.

Dec 30 14 09:21 am Link

Photographer

Lightcraft Studio

Posts: 13682

Las Vegas, Nevada, US

Click Hamilton wrote:
On several occasions code enforcement people from the city have asked to enter my properties. They like to think they have the authority of various kinds of police, but they do not.  They are armed with clipboards and an attitude like they want to bust people for something.

My smiley, cheerful response is always the same when they ask to enter a property:

"Sure! ... as soon as you show me your warrant or written authorization for doing so."

"Show me your papers" (as the expression goes)


So far, they have always been on fishing expeditions without a specific purpose. Usually it's in response to a complaint by someone who is trying to hassle me. Once we let them in, maybe they can find something that they can use against us. I don't know all the tricks they have at their disposal for getting us to incriminate ourselves.

Nobody in this situation has ever produced any papers. I do not know the extent of the legal authority of code enforcement department employees. If they have something in writing, I am ready to photograph it with my iphone, which I think is saved to my icloud, for my legal file. After I do my due diligence to the best of my reasonable ability, I may or may not let them enter to fish for violations or other evidence they might use against me. It depends on their purpose for asking and my understanding of any papers they show me. If I don't understand the situation, then I ask for permission to show my copies of their papers to a lawyer or representative of a legal rights property owners association, and I ask them to make an appointment with me to enter the property at a later date after I can arrange for legal representation.

That is not a refusal to cooperate. It's a matter of managing the situation forward with common sense and proper executive decisions that should be expected from a person in my position. I have authority and responsibilities too. We all have to do our jobs.

Lawyers handle these situations differently as well. Put yourselves in the shoes of other professionals and think it through.

To grovel, batt our eyelashes or suck up should not be on our list of responses. We can all be professionals, to the best of our ability.

Cops are cops. They come with a specific purpose. Legal issues are often beyond the scope of their job duties.

When I owned rental properties in Los Angeles the city would do code enforcement inspections every two years. They always had "papers" authorizing them to do so and could levy a big fat fine if we resisted. They were basically looking to see if the properties were slums, and when the inspectors saw the properties and how nicely I kept them up they were very friendly and happy to see the condition. No problems.

Having been a renter once myself, I can understand why the city does that... the process was just part of doing business.

Dec 30 14 09:59 am Link

Photographer

Click Hamilton

Posts: 36555

San Diego, California, US

Lightcraft Studio wrote:
When I owned rental properties in Los Angeles the city would do code enforcement inspections every two years. They always had "papers" authorizing them to do so and could levy a big fat fine if we resisted. They were basically looking to see if the properties were slums, and when the inspectors saw the properties and how nicely I kept them up they were very friendly and happy to see the condition. No problems.

Having been a renter once myself, I can understand why the city does that... the process was just part of doing business.

Parts of LA can be more intense. The Peoples Republic of Santa Monica comes to mind. I have not had that experience in San Diego yet, but I have to be prepared for it at anytime in the future.

I rent rent out my houses to students in the College Area around SDSU and there is a never-ending battle with home-owners (or the doofus people who inherit them from their parents from another time and generation) who live next to the university and hate students, and those of us who rent rooms to them. There are vigilante groups who will turn me into the city if my tenants leave their Friday pickup trash barrel out until Saturday. There are tons of small and idiotic ways to abuse codes that may have once been put in place for a reasonable purpose.

A friend of mine just south of Los Angeles is fighting some EPA clipboard people who say he is responsible for the quality of the rainwater that hits his roof and runs into the street. Are we supposed to install some kind of rainwater capture and filtration system before it gets from the roof to the ground? Or do they just want to extract some kind of fine or settlement to pay for the people they hire to make the trouble they do?

We can give up, quit, and withdraw, or we can manage our way forward and try to deal with these people.

That may be why many people have left California.

Dec 30 14 02:24 pm Link

Photographer

Justin

Posts: 22389

Fort Collins, Colorado, US

Click Hamilton wrote:
A friend of mine just south of Los Angeles is fighting some EPA clipboard people who say he is responsible for the quality of the rainwater that hits his roof and runs into the street. Are we supposed to install some kind of rainwater capture and filtration system before it gets from the roof to the ground? Or do they just want to extract some kind of fine or settlement to pay for the people they hire to make the trouble they do?

I'd be curious what regulation(s) this EPA person is citing. I know that a lot of runoff from asphalt, pavement, and treated yards isn't very nice to flow into a stream or river, but I'm unfamiliar with EPA regulating existing residential roofs.

Dec 30 14 04:05 pm Link