Forums > General Industry > Anyone else seeing this -- Just curious

Photographer

Bilsen Galleries

Posts: 426

CORTLANDT MANOR, New York, US

Interesting responses.  Glad to know I'm not totally delusional.

Jan 30 15 09:41 pm Link

Photographer

Glamour by Glenn

Posts: 1033

Chattanooga, Tennessee, US

All you have to do is search for new models and you'll see the same ones on the search results first page for several days in a row with just a few new models being added per day. I can remember almost a full page of new models being added per day. I'm using my default saved search which hasn't had any parameters changed from when I first set it up.

Jan 31 15 01:43 am Link

Photographer

Bilsen Galleries

Posts: 426

CORTLANDT MANOR, New York, US

All interesting perspectives.

Sadly, I've started trying to figure out FACEBOOK instead of here.  I still make offers here but nothing much happens anymore.

Feb 05 15 05:29 pm Link

Photographer

WU_Photography

Posts: 5

Raleigh, North Carolina, US

I've also had issues booking models from MM. Everyone just seemed so flaky and unresponsive.

If you're experiencing the same problem and happen to be in the San Francisco Bay area, check out this app:

www.prophotoshootapp.com

In beta now, but it was created to take this whole process into the 21st century.

Feb 06 15 07:21 pm Link

Photographer

Iktan

Posts: 879

New York, New York, US

Also the quality of models has gone waaaaay down lmao lmao

Feb 06 15 09:46 pm Link

Photographer

GDS Photos

Posts: 3399

London, England, United Kingdom

I get shoots through Facebook but always ask if the model has a portfolio on here or the other more UK centric site and always refer models to my portfolio on here and on the other site.  I want to see how a model models, not how she duck-faces while pissed in the toilet of a bar.

Feb 07 15 03:38 am Link

Photographer

Varton

Posts: 2755

New York, New York, US

The Grey Forest wrote:
I try to keep up with new members every week,
but notice that as time has passed ~ more new MM members open accounts as a "social status" rather than being truly active in their chosen career slot.  So they open ports merely as a status symbol and never actually do any shoots ~ its just a: "hey, look at me" link to their Facebook or other social accounts, etc. with no serious intention of actually ever doing a photo shoot whatsoever.

Every 4 out of 5 = flake and never take the effort to follow up on their contacts after the first reply.


It's one of the reasons us long time members would rather have MM Admin make changes for deleting stale ports:  unless it is a 'memorial', then send out a 30 day notice to those ports that have no activity past 1 yr.

I couldn't say it any better.
5 years ago it took mm gatekeepers to "approve" my port 3 weeks, and  my first attempt to become a member was rejected once by a proud "I know everything, I am better then everyone" gatekeeper.
But now I see new members emerging like pop corns everyday. So much for your great expertise!
Most don't even bother to reply via PM
I think someone else set up those accounts on their behalf.
If you delete inactive accounts, the site would look shrunk.
Even the active member amount shrunk but it won't become obvious through the glitz and smokescreen being spread.
I deleted most of everything on my cover page, no one reads anything anyway. It is a waste. I am staying like most others to have an additional web presence.

Feb 07 15 05:40 am Link

Photographer

Bilsen Galleries

Posts: 426

CORTLANDT MANOR, New York, US

I have started to play around on Facebook but it's a royal pain trying to figure out geography for each model.

Feb 15 15 07:25 am Link

Model

Dea and the Beast

Posts: 4796

Saint Petersburg, Florida, US

Koryn wrote:

I can't figure out how in the world I'd even be able to use Facebook for modeling, since they are so restrictive against nudity. I have very few current, portfolio-worthy shots that are clothed, and putting black bars over the nipples and pubic area just makes the pictures look ugly. I HATE that.

+1000
Has an account once. Got "tagged" with a nip slip on someone else's post. Got shut down. GFY, FB.

Feb 15 15 07:36 am Link

Photographer

DespayreFX

Posts: 1481

Delta, British Columbia, Canada

I would second that comment above, at least once a week I wonder why MM doesn't have an app. There are obvious advantages for usability, and these days models live on their phone. Every other social media type of site has one, and you constantly see ppl using them.

If I do a search on my phone using MM's website, it's a pain in the ass.

I feel this is quite possibly contributing to the problem, as smartphones have gotten more ubiquitous, fewer models take the time to use the computer as often for things like this, but they all have phones with them anyways... (I don't think 9 out of every 10 can get through a photoshoot without taking at least 1 selfie!).

Feb 15 15 07:43 am Link

Photographer

Light and Lens Studio

Posts: 3450

Sisters, Oregon, US

Bilsen Galleries wrote:
Been here since 2009 and have met some of the best people I know through Mayhem BUT my trajectory is not good.

In 2012 I had about 65 shoots with roughly 20 first timers (both my reaching out and them contacting me) 

In 2013 I had trouble keeping up with all the TF shoots (both my requests and those contacting me).  Out of 70 or so shoots, 32 were 1st timers.

  In 2014, with the same basic approach and the same number of contacts (both me and them) I did about 60 shoots BUT only 15 1st timers.  Possibly just a slow year.

  This year it's WAYY early but, starting in November, based upon the same approach from me I have only 2 shoots scheduled and zero requests.

  Not ranting, and I have enough repeater/regulars to keep active but I'm wondering if anyone else is seeing a downward trajectory in Mayhem arranged shoots?  The variables (my approach and messages, relative portfolio level, number of contacts sent, etc) are the same.  Funny in a way because I now have more references than I ever had in terms of repeaters but my shoot percentage seems to be a downhill slide.

Others???

Didn't you guys have a really severe Winter. Even murders are down in NYC. Blame it on Global Warming.

Feb 15 15 07:57 am Link

Model

Dea and the Beast

Posts: 4796

Saint Petersburg, Florida, US

Perhaps something as simple as an optional "Date of last photo shoot"  (not images received/uploaded!) for both, model and photographer to confirm, will show activity, that both actually showed up (flake rates and rants may go down) AND that both, model and photographer are actually effectively communicating (and not just ranting at each other with their petty crap on the fora, like yours truly. wink   )

I reckon a few memberships should warrant for such a button to be programmed, nay?

Feb 15 15 08:00 am Link

Photographer

Jerry Nemeth

Posts: 33355

Dearborn, Michigan, US

Amadea T wrote:
Perhaps something as simple as an optional "Date of last photo shoot"  (not images received/uploaded!) for both, model and photographer to confirm, will show activity, that both actually showed up (flake rates and rants may go down) AND that both, model and photographer are actually effectively communicating (and not just ranting at each other with their petty crap on the fora, like yours truly. wink   )

I reckon a few memberships should warrant for such a button to be programmed, nay?

It sounds like a good idea.

Feb 15 15 08:19 am Link

Photographer

barepixels

Posts: 3195

San Diego, California, US

MM is still the best resource for me.  It just not active like it used to be.  Seem a lot of cool people are gone or gone less active.  Specially in the forum.

With that said, in the last whole year I have found and shot 3 models from FB  while

In the last 30 days:  From Jan 12 to Feb 11

I have worked with 10 models from MM and shot them for the total of 19 times/days

https://199.167.201.88/screencaptures/20150215-f6l-79kb.jpg

Feb 15 15 08:44 am Link

Photographer

JQuest

Posts: 2431

Syracuse, New York, US

I have few problems booking off of MM as well, and as an aside like an idiot I tried to click your folders... lol

Feb 15 15 09:00 am Link

Photographer

barepixels

Posts: 3195

San Diego, California, US

Nice works Mr Quest.

Feb 15 15 09:15 am Link

Photographer

ontherocks

Posts: 23575

Salem, Oregon, US

judging from what i see from my model friends, models are just pretty much ignoring the black bars and such (which was kind of uncomfortable when my boss was screen sharing my computer and up popped a nude). then every so often someone complains and they have to open a new account.

there are also a lot of Facebook groups. like there's one for zivity.

Koryn wrote:
I can't figure out how in the world I'd even be able to use Facebook for modeling, since they are so restrictive against nudity. I have very few current, portfolio-worthy shots that are clothed, and putting black bars over the nipples and pubic area just makes the pictures look ugly. I HATE that.

Feb 15 15 09:42 am Link

Model

Dea and the Beast

Posts: 4796

Saint Petersburg, Florida, US

If I spent all my time learning to navigate and constantly update update update with every fart that happens around me, I'd never have time to actually shoot nor hone my skills or make it to the freaggin gym or get anything at all done.. how in the hell do y'all do it, this constant bloody facing and  booking and spacing and tweeting and instragraming and tumbling and tossing and turning? (I nearly told a guy he should "come on MyFace"  the other day... )

Feb 15 15 09:54 am Link

Photographer

barepixels

Posts: 3195

San Diego, California, US

Amadea T wrote:
I nearly told a guy he should "come on MyFace"  the other day.

Arrg I miss working with you

Feb 15 15 11:58 am Link

Photographer

svenler

Posts: 1771

San Diego, California, US

Nowadays, MM is good if you need to cast some models and the client is on a budget (<50/hr).

I get tons more responses from MM than from anywhere else. Of course, MM also yields a lot more noise (such as: I know I'm five inches too short for your casting, but I can wear heels) but once you sort through this, you are good to go.

Feb 15 15 12:56 pm Link

Photographer

DwLPhoto

Posts: 808

Palo Alto, California, US

I think meetup.com is giving models enough bookings that they can ignore individual photographers.   At least in my area. 

6-10 guys paying $50-100 (obviously not all goes to the model)...  "safer" with all those people around, often in a studio, and they can meet the photographers and then decide if they want secondary sessions for another $100 or so

Not to mention these are only 2-3 hour shoots, so if there is someone annoying you aren't really going to have to work with them very long.

I'm not sure I'd want to pay more than $20 for one of these meetups though...  I've been to freebie meet n greet type meetups where everyone seems to have fun. And usually if anything it's $5 to help with the booze and snacks etc. 

But 10 guys all trying to shoot the model within 2 hours...with wardrobe changes and posing... and setup/backdrop/room changes... sounds crappy.   

For a hobby it would be decent. There is a guy on flickr who goes to a few every month...and seems to be renting/borrowing lots of gear, unless he owns that $150,000 in cameras he's used.

Feb 15 15 03:13 pm Link

Photographer

Bilsen Galleries

Posts: 426

CORTLANDT MANOR, New York, US

Interesting idea about apps Patrick.

As for the "gang bang" group shoots, been there, done that, done with it.

Either way and for whatever reason, Mayhem is becoming less useful by the year. 

That is really sad to me because I have really enjoyed the models I have actually gotten to meet here.

Feb 16 15 01:40 pm Link

Model

Amelia Simone

Posts: 2155

Rosarito, Baja California, Mexico

Yep things are going down a bit. Holidays and the beginning of the year are always a bit slow for me, but this year seems to be one of the worst honestly

Feb 16 15 02:03 pm Link

Photographer

Bilsen Galleries

Posts: 426

CORTLANDT MANOR, New York, US

Amelia Simone wrote:
Yep things are going down a bit. Holidays and the beginning of the year are always a bit slow for me, but this year seems to be one of the worst honestly

Seriously wish you were on the correct coast.  LOL

Feb 19 15 02:43 pm Link

Photographer

WIP

Posts: 15973

Cheltenham, England, United Kingdom

mophotoart wrote:
definitely something changed with the MM world..

Defo... strange things happening.

Feb 19 15 03:36 pm Link

Photographer

64318

Posts: 1638

San Anselmo, California, US

ddtphoto wrote:
I

"I used this site a ton in the past to test with models and build my portfolio. I still do on occasion. But it really feels like sifting through all the noise on here to the quality and reliable talent that come to the shoot with a minimum of baggage is fewer and farther between. I'm sure the good models feel the same way about the photographers.

"

Agreed the fall in quality responses has been precipitous !!!  Things have changed a lot......... Especially the forums.

Feb 19 15 03:43 pm Link

Photographer

mccStudio

Posts: 1312

Santa Cruz, California, US

The Golden time on MM for me was 2006-2009.  After that, it is all downhill.  Good thing I don't really care to update my port for the sake of just updating.

If you are having problem finding quality talent here, you are not alone.  I think it is a waste of time now.  I have had better luck just going up to a random pretty girl and asking her by giving her my business card.

MM for LA is still very good.  Lots of talent there.  If you need to build a port, might consider flying to LA for a few days and do all your shoots at once.  May save you the hassle of looking locally.

Feb 19 15 06:05 pm Link

Photographer

WIP

Posts: 15973

Cheltenham, England, United Kingdom

mccStudio--Dark wrote:
The Golden time on MM for me was 2006-2009.  After that, it is all downhill.  Good thing I don't really care to update my port for the sake of just updating.

.

I think FB has a lot to do with this... FB is like MM used to be some years ago.
I'm seeing models who have not used MM for maybe a year but are incredibly active on MM.

Even Digital Art and Retouching forums on FB are a lot more active.

Feb 21 15 04:45 am Link

Photographer

Marin Photo NYC

Posts: 7348

New York, New York, US

FB there might be groups in your area you can join and recruit from.  IG is great, I have gotten many shoots from messages on there.  Twitter works too. Keep posting your website link with your contact info, it works.

Feb 21 15 05:10 am Link

Photographer

Lallure Photographic

Posts: 2086

Taylors, South Carolina, US

Perhaps the reality of modeling is setting in. It isn't necessarily fun, nor glamorous, nor easy, nor highly profitable.

Feb 21 15 08:27 am Link

Photographer

Herman Surkis

Posts: 10856

Victoria, British Columbia, Canada

Lallure Photographic wrote:
Perhaps the reality of modeling is setting in. It isn't necessarily fun, nor glamorous, nor easy, nor highly profitable.

This may have a *lot* to do with it.
The more wannabe models who get nowhere, the more the word will spread.

However on the flip side, those who remain will likely be more serious about modeling and photography, for art or coin. And those who remain will also be the ones who are good enough to make coin. Photographers are discovering that it takes more to be a Photographer than just owning some type of camera. And models are discovering that it takes more than just a pretty face to be a model.

Feb 21 15 11:46 am Link

Photographer

Photofixia

Posts: 70

Auckland, Auckland, New Zealand

I've noticed the very same phenomenon here in New Zealand. I find that NZ MM models (even the ones who have no experience) won't reply to professional, friendly offers of work. I now source models from the local student job search office. I get many replies whenever I place a casting call there!

Feb 21 15 11:54 am Link

Photographer

Rik Austin

Posts: 12164

Austin, Texas, US

In the years when the model shows were big on TV there were a lot of girls that wanted to try it out.  Still a crap shoot but better odds.   

When Craig's List closed the Adult section the porn people and escorts tried to move in. 

Then when the recession hit and there were no jobs for young kids starting out everyone joined trying to make money. 

Still that way now.  Newbies join because they see all BS about making $100 pet hour.

Feb 21 15 12:21 pm Link

Photographer

Bilsen Galleries

Posts: 426

CORTLANDT MANOR, New York, US

Well based on a VERY small sample it apoears it's not JUST Mayhem.  Facebook is only marginally better.

Since January 1   On Mayhem   4 first time shoots scheduled ------  4 cancellations

                              On Facebook  3 first time shoots scheduled -------  1 shoot, 2 cancellations.

   Again, from 2010 to 2012 I was very succuessful here on Mayhem by itself.  Nowadays I thank God for all my regulars because without them I'd be playing chess full time.  LOLOL

Feb 21 15 07:02 pm Link

Photographer

Bilsen Galleries

Posts: 426

CORTLANDT MANOR, New York, US

and JUST when I'm about ready to give up on Mayhem, this terrific 1st shoot actually shows up and does a great set.

Go figure.  LOLOL

Mar 01 15 08:17 am Link

Photographer

James Garfield

Posts: 692

Perth, Western Australia, Australia

JAE wrote:
I noticed this a year or two ago.  That is why I started setting up all my shoots via Facebook like most people are doing.

It's a great shame that Facebook is taking traffic away from sites like this. Facebook seems to be all things to all people but I have found that the "models" on Facebook more like likely to flake are less professional in their approach. For many they just want to be model for a day so they can get a 100 likes for their pics from their friends.

I know I sound like a grumpy old man but for me there's a lot of merit for someone to join a site like MM and actually have a PF that isn't full of selfies, an about page with something real written and their stats.

I hardly shoot these days, I find posting casting calls a depressing venture on here these days and even worse when putting them on my local "Modelling" FB page. Pity really as I really enjoy working with other experienced people.

Mar 01 15 05:36 pm Link