Viator Defessus Photos wrote:
What's wrong with the 600D? Perfectly respectable camera. You're not doing sports photography or anything that requires a sooped up focusing system.

You have completely misunderstood the scenario.

I felt like I could have still been mugged walking around with a body as small as a 600d purely because it's still looks relative to normal cameras 'expensive'.

This is about how photographers deal with shooting in a poor neighbourhood not a thread whether a 600d is 'respectable'.

Allen Carbon wrote:

You have completely misunderstood the scenario.

I felt like I could have still been mugged walking around with a body as small as a 600d purely because it's still looks relative to normal cameras 'expensive'.

This is about how photographers deal with shooting in a poor neighbourhood not a thread whether a 600d is 'respectable'.

Except you walked around with it, took pictures, and now you're complaining that you didn't "do it justice" or whatever. I don't get it. You went. Pictures where taken. You didn't even get mugged.

As to the $100-200 camera suggestion someone else made, $100-200 is probably still a lot to the people in those neighborhoods and it probably wouldn't make much difference. The 600D itself is only maybe worth $250-300 used, the lens he used worth maybe another $75. A mirrorless camera isn't likely to be any cheaper.

Seriously. If you want to take the pictures, suck it up and take the camera. Go prepared to hand over the camera if someone threatens you over it. Or just don't go. You're not going to get around this problem. Any camera you take in there is going to present the risk of someone robbing you for it for grace of the fact that it's a camera.

Viator Defessus Photos wrote:
Except you walked around with it, took pictures, and now you're complaining that you didn't "do it justice" or whatever. I don't get it. You went. Pictures where taken. You didn't even get mugged.

As to the $100-200 camera suggestion someone else made, $100-200 is probably still a lot to the people in those neighborhoods and it probably wouldn't make much difference. The 600D itself is only maybe worth $250-300 used, the lens he used worth maybe another $75. A mirrorless camera isn't likely to be any cheaper.

Go prepared to hand over the camera if someone threatens you over it. Or just don't go. You're not going to get around this problem. Any camera you take in there is going to present the risk of someone robbing you for it for grace of the fact that it's a camera.

Holy crap are you insecure about cameras. I take it that's your camera? Again this has nothing to do with camera quality. I did not at all bring down or discount the quality of the precious 600d. I didn't even say i didn't do it 'justice'. I didn't say that i took crap photos with it.  jeez.

I said that it's still a little too big and too professional looking for a camera and so
I'm asking if anyone here has experience shooting in poor neighbourhoods. If anyone here actually frequent slums or does war journalist photos and how they deal with shooting in poor neighbourhoods. Camera crews and photographers go into war torn or broken places all the time. But obviously your opinion is "just be prepared to get robbed" so okay, thanks, you can go now.

Again. This isn't about the money or the camera.  I brought up mirrorless because I could easily fit one in my pocket and move on instead of having a bulky slr.

Viator Defessus Photos wrote:
Seriously. If you want to take the pictures, suck it up and take the camera

Did you have a bad day or something?

eos3_300 wrote:
Get a used cheap DSLR for $100 200
If it gets pinched no great loss
www.keh.com

hmm the problem isn't soo much the money it's more the size of the dslr.
I'd rather not get stabbed if possible.
A mirrorless might be a better option as I can just hide it and move on, without having something huge and bulky painting me a target.
Philippines isn't the safest place (I've lost 4 family members through fatal muggings), but I see a handful of Nat Geo photographers on insta showing off their photos in similar poor places and I'm just thinking how they do that.

That's one of the things that have always fascinated me with journalists. How the flip can they just walk around places like that.

Laura UnBound wrote:
People get mugged without flashing around thousands of dollars worth of gadgets. You're either gonna get mugged or you're not. The fact that you're not a regular in the neighbourhood alone puts you at higher risk.

Oh I can definitely blend in as a local so i know what to, who to, and where to avoid. I'm pinoy born.

Laura UnBound wrote:
Tornado chasers dont go "but I spent all this money on my shit and it might get ruined…" If you're insistent on shooting in high-risk neighbourhoods then you have to accept those risks. Try being nice to people instead of looking terrified that they're going to jump you, maybe they'll be nice back.

I guess with Tornado chasers though is that they have specific gear that lower the risk of damage or fault. So I'm just wondering how to lower the risk factor and still be a photographer.
You wouldn't bring a fragile expensive camera to a Tornado chase and say 'I accept the risks' but you bring a sturdy camera with some padding to a tornado chase and say 'I accept the risks and I have planned for it' ya know?

I went into a place firstly with a big camera and immediately realised my fault. I invited people to rob me. So I went back and replaced my camera with something smaller but still the risk is pretty high. So I want to plan for a scenario where it's acceptable.  Perhaps with an even smaller camera. But people here have done it long before I have.
That's why I posted this in the photographers forum just incase I could pick some brains of some photographers who frequent places like where I go because ALOT of journalists do document places like that and i'm pretty sure they don't just hand in their cameras as soon as they go in.

Allen Carbon wrote:
That's one of the things that have always fascinated me with journalists. How the flip can they just walk around places like that.

They are fearless/delusional
You can not do this hiding thinking a small camera will go unnoticed
Any camera is worth stealing to a poor person
Size is totally irrelevant
A poor person will murder you for your shoes

Viator Defessus Photos wrote:

My point was any camera is worth stealing
With $100 unit you hand it over readily and put up no resistance.

eos3_300 wrote:
They are fearless/delusional
You can not do this hiding thinking a small camera will go unnoticed
Any camera is worth stealing to a poor person
Size is totally irrelevant
A poor person will murder you for your shoes

but not all of them get mugged. It's not as if they go into a place and just hand in their cameras as fee.
You shoot at sea, you run the risk of the camera getting water damage but you plan for it.

Allen Carbon wrote:

but not all of them get mugged. It's not as if they go into a place and just hand in their cameras as fee.

Of course they all dont get mugged
Not all the Tornado chasers get killed
These are people willing to accept the risk to get the job done
You are not willing to accept the risk
You cant have it both ways

eos3_300 wrote:
Of course they all dont get mugged
Not all the Tornado chasers get killed
These are people willing to accept the risk to get the job done
You are not willing to accept the risk
You cant have it both ways

I am, and I already have shown to accept the risk.

Taking risks isn't in question, what one does to prepare is.

Anyone going to war torn Africa will plan for a body guard, a safe haven, a guide. -This lowers the risk of getting shot at.
Anyone going to Antartica will plan for a body like a phaseone that could handle extreme lows, extra batteries because extreme low temperatures chew battery life. - This lowers the risk of freezing your body irreparably.
Anyone going to chase Tornados will plan for extra protection and housings to lower the risk of the camera being wrecked
Anyone going to shoot on a boat will plan for waterproof housing to lower the risk of cameras being soaked.

Are you telling me that going into a poor place is the only scenario out of all the places where a photographer just says, "fuck it. Can't prepare for anything. Let's risk it. Anyone who wants to think about it is a pussy"?

I'm not asking for the world to be a nicer place. I'm asking what one does to prepare.

Allen Carbon wrote:
You have completely misunderstood the scenario.

I completely understand the scenario and deal with it often during the year throughout Indochina. (Tomorrow I'll fly to Burma and onto Bagan for a few days-on Air Asia!!!) I use a small mirrorless camera with a pancake lense for most shots. It fits into my purse/pocket and no one gives it the slightest notice.  I also have a small zoom for it that also is very inconspicuous. You have a great selection of mirrorless to choose from, either full frame or cropped. Get the smaller ones with a pancake lense if possible. (I call my pancake a "snub-nosed .22") These little mirrorless snappers can produce great photos. You will not attract any added attention with a small mirrorless that you would with a giant ball and chain camera around your neck. And you'll look a lot cooler. Lastly, you said you're Pinoy. Use it to your advantage. What you seek can easily be attained. Staying safe is about awareness. And don't drink and shoot either.

House of Thailand wrote:

I completely understand the scenario and deal with it often during the year throughout Indochina. (Tomorrow I'll fly to Burma and onto Bagan for a few days-on Air Asia!!!) I use a small mirrorless camera with a pancake lense for most shots. It fits into my purse/pocket and no one gives it the slightest notice.  I also have a small zoom for it that also is very inconspicuous. You have a great selection of mirrorless to choose from, either full frame or cropped. Get the smaller ones with a pancake lense if possible. (I call my pancake a "snub-nosed .22") These little mirrorless snappers can produce great photos. You will not attract any added attention with a small mirrorless that you would with a giant ball and chain camera around your neck. And you'll look a lot cooler. Lastly, you said you're Pinoy. Use it to your advantage. What you seek can easily be attained. Staying safe is about awareness. And don't drink and shoot either.

Pancake lenses are a great idea. I guess getting a mirrorless was the right train of thought! Thanks.
and i've never really thought about the drink and shoot idea too!

House of Thailand wrote:

I completely understand the scenario and deal with it often during the year throughout Indochina. (Tomorrow I'll fly to Burma and onto Bagan for a few days-on Air Asia!!!) I use a small mirrorless camera with a pancake lense for most shots. It fits into my purse/pocket and no one gives it the slightest notice.  I also have a small zoom for it that also is very inconspicuous. You have a great selection of mirrorless to choose from, either full frame or cropped. Get the smaller ones with a pancake lense if possible. (I call my pancake a "snub-nosed .22") These little mirrorless snappers can produce great photos. You will not attract any added attention with a small mirrorless that you would with a giant ball and chain camera around your neck. And you'll look a lot cooler. Lastly, you said you're Pinoy. Use it to your advantage. What you seek can easily be attained. Staying safe is about awareness. And don't drink and shoot either.

+1

Bella Photoshoot wrote:
I love Nat Geo / Street Photography.  Would love to capture raw emotion in a place like the Phillippines, both the beauty and the anguish of poverty.  That being said, unless I had a crew and the local people knew they were being photographed/filmed, as  a tourist Id use a small point and shoot.  Thats just me speculating.  Who knows, maybe Id give it a try.  How'd you feel?  Are you quick enough to get the shots you need without making the local uncomfortable?  Or yourself conspicuous?  Sounds like a challenge.! 

Laurie/Bellaphotoshoot

Yeah! I want to meet one of those guys one day and pick their brains.

The general local is actually all good with it. They are usually all nice and fun people that believe in respecting visitors. It's the kids you look out for. Some of the young kids will 'spot' someone rich txt someone, 5 minutes later a gang member comes along.

There was one shot I saw the other day of a Nat Geo photo in a market and i'm just confused. Did he just have a little camera and bolted as soon as he whipped it out or does he have like 5 guards behind him.

tenrocK photo wrote:
Leica time! Put some tape on it to make it look "broken and old".

that's what i carry; except without the tape - just a very strong, plain black strap. i figure if anyone attempts to take it, i can brain them with the camera. wouldn't hurt the camera at all. plus it's faster to shoot and quiet.

look like you belong there. act like a native and not like a crazed photographer.

GCP Photography wrote:
Allen, I've been to the Philippines many times (have a simple house in Quezon City) and take my NikonD2x with a 28-75 2.8f lens and walk around with it a lot. It's a big combo so everyone knows it's worth $$$$! My wife was born in the Philippines but I'm a 6'2" 350lbs white American with a red beard, so everyone is looking at me and my camera all the time. My wife worries a bit but I feel ok because I always have one or two family or friends with me.  It's a risk for sure I think my size and the fact I'm American and have someone with me works to my advantage and that's why I have never felt too worried. I don't take my camera to the squatter areas or out after sunset. The greatest risk will be in places like Manila, but when I'm a few hours outside the big city I feel ok to take my camera out alone or late at night! Not sure what area you will be shooting but I know Manila has a lot of crime. Everyone in my wife's family has been mugged at least one time and my Brother-in-Law was stabbed in the back once for his wallet.

I don't blame you for being worried just do yourself a favor and minimize the risk the best you can and go out and enjoy taking some great shots!!

haha the advantages of being a big guy... I'm a small asian boy haha.

I'm mainly around Quezon city, sooo kinda like manila.. a bit more compact and less safe haha. How do you take photos though? do you get annoyed that people would just look at you since you stand out?

tenrocK photo wrote:
Leica time! Put some tape on it to make it look "broken and old".
Then get a driver/body guard for around $50.00 a day plus gas in the Phils. That's what I did when I went there.

+gas is like nothing ha!
I remember taking a taxi ride to the airport. The ride took 2 hours. I paid about 15 dollars new zealand.

Weldphoto wrote:
In the 60's I shot a lot on the lower east side. in New York. 14th street was a dangerous place. I shot with a leica. No one noticed me - much. I think attitude has a lot to do with it. I talk with people and shot with them rather than at them, if that makes sense.  I was careful and aware (and young). I shot fast and was as unobtrusive as I could be. Moved slowly, too  my time and didn't look scared. It was fun overall. I did it for weeks.

In the poorest of poor areas in the mountains of Honduras I did the same. No one gave me any trouble . I was noticed, but not very much. I just tried to make myself fade into the landscape which was hard as an Anglo.  I slow talked to the people, asked them what they did etc. And I don't speak Spanish beyond the very basics.

A Leica (or similar) camera, a good, friendly attitude, a certain fearlessness will carry the day. You are seen before you camera and your are evaluated first. Most people are not robbers, they are just people who are poor.

Wow thats awesome. yeah i totally agree.
thanks thats awesome advice

Allen Carbon wrote:
Taking risks isn't in question, what one does to prepare is.

Allen Carbon wrote:
I'm asking what one does to prepare.

You could:

Get insurance for your gear.
Cover your logos with tape and use generic straps.
Use a backpack instead of a camera bag.
Ask someone to join you.

If you're not worried about taking risks, then you should bring the gear you need that will enable you to get the shots you want.

Allen Carbon wrote:
Any war journalists here or photographers that go into extremely poor neighbourhoods?

I have no problems going into extremely marginal territory. Never go alone. The more buddies the better.

This was from my 600D.

Photo: Tacloban after the storm / tsunami. The ship is 100 meters inland.

The strongest typhoon ever recorded:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typhoon_Haiyan

.

Allen Carbon wrote:
Hey guys!

How do you approach doing street photography especially in a place that's really poor? Like slum level poor.
I just went home back to the Philippines the other month and I was just a little sad how little photos I managed to get. My family in the Philippines lives in a very bad neighbourhood. Like Slumdog millionaire or Favelas bad.
I was uncomfortable with having my 5dmkiii out with me so i reverted to a smaller 600d with a 50mm even then i felt it was a little bit too obvious still too. It just felt like "hey rob me!"

But it was such a beautiful and fascinating place that I really want to capture properly.

How do you guys approach this?

I"m going again later this year so I'm thinking about getting a mirrorless camera so I could still take some photos without giving an invitation to mug me.

Any war journalists here or photographers that go into extremely poor neighbourhoods?

I spent a LOT of time with embedded photographers in my unit.
Their way of making their gear look like shit, was using two different kinds of tape. Duct and Electrical.
Cover all identifying marks, with duct or electrical tape.
Then wrap tape around stuff. Keep the tape out of your way, and off the controls.
ALSO one used paint.
He used three or four different colors of paint and made the camera and lenses look like something out of a junk pile.
(Nikon D3s, Nikon D3x, 70-200mm f2.8, 24-70 f2.8 180mm f2.8 all painted to look like shit.)
None of the guys had a problem with anyone trying to steel their stuff.

Allen Carbon wrote:
Hey guys!

How do you approach doing street photography especially in a place that's really poor? Like slum level poor.
I just went home back to the Philippines the other month and I was just a little sad how little photos I managed to get. My family in the Philippines lives in a very bad neighbourhood. Like Slumdog millionaire or Favelas bad.
I was uncomfortable with having my 5dmkiii out with me so i reverted to a smaller 600d with a 50mm even then i felt it was a little bit too obvious still too. It just felt like "hey rob me!"

But it was such a beautiful and fascinating place that I really want to capture properly.

How do you guys approach this?

I"m going again later this year so I'm thinking about getting a mirrorless camera so I could still take some photos without giving an invitation to mug me.

Any war journalists here or photographers that go into extremely poor neighbourhoods?

Old film camera. Gone a lot of very scary places like this. Ended up giving the camera away once (to a very gratefu girl in a bar) but never really been menaced.

Buy an old 35mm film camera from ebay - if you get the right one  (recommend a Trip or XA) then the quality is comparable to your 5D.

WIP wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrP7Z6FUxZQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNeVZjMVn0o

Don McCullin in his own words.

This is everything i wanted to know!! OH MY GOD thanks!!!

Allen Carbon wrote:
Hey guys!

How do you approach doing street photography especially in a place that's really poor? Like slum level poor.
I just went home back to the Philippines the other month and I was just a little sad how little photos I managed to get. My family in the Philippines lives in a very bad neighbourhood. Like Slumdog millionaire or Favelas bad.
I was uncomfortable with having my 5dmkiii out with me so i reverted to a smaller 600d with a 50mm even then i felt it was a little bit too obvious still too. It just felt like "hey rob me!"

But it was such a beautiful and fascinating place that I really want to capture properly.

How do you guys approach this?

I"m going again later this year so I'm thinking about getting a mirrorless camera so I could still take some photos without giving an invitation to mug me.




Any war journalists here or photographers that go into extremely poor neighbourhoods?

I have shot drug deals at night.. stabings at the bus station in Chicago.. Shot an played homeless for a month with a distroyed army trench coat and my cameras under it..gone with the long hair the short hair the bald head and tats.. LOL I have shot in SO many diferent lights overseas and you ask "How.. dude all I can say is you have to be quick..when you are shooting (kneeling under a rolling garbage can) a drug deal and a homeless guy says overtop your head at the same time "wat-cha-doin-man?" and you fall on your back hit the flash and he falls back into the garbage thinking you're really shooting him..and you pray without knowing it at the time you have just enough time to get the F outta there LMFAO... YOU need Balls and you need to be MANIC

Allen Carbon wrote:
Hey guys!

How do you approach doing street photography especially in a place that's really poor? Like slum level poor.
I just went home back to the Philippines the other month and I was just a little sad how little photos I managed to get. My family in the Philippines lives in a very bad neighbourhood. Like Slumdog millionaire or Favelas bad.
I was uncomfortable with having my 5dmkiii out with me so i reverted to a smaller 600d with a 50mm even then i felt it was a little bit too obvious still too. It just felt like "hey rob me!"

But it was such a beautiful and fascinating place that I really want to capture properly.

How do you guys approach this?

I"m going again later this year so I'm thinking about getting a mirrorless camera so I could still take some photos without giving an invitation to mug me.

Any war journalists here or photographers that go into extremely poor neighbourhoods?

Legitimate photographers who do projects in poor or high risk environments attend the site numerous times without any camera at all and just befriend and socialize with the locals. Getting to know the people and environment you want to photograph is essential for this type of work. This can take weeks or months or even years depending of the place. You have to do your homework.

Now, if you only want to take pretty pictures of poor people and neighbourhoods so you can show your friends how hardcore you are then please do the world a favour and stick to taking pictures of beautiful women. Few things I despise more than the typical white rich guy doing crappy, exploitative poverty-themed photography and sell it as street photography or even worse, journalism. Not saying that this is your case but the fact that you come here looking for advice on how not to get mugged makes me question the legitimacy of your intentions.

Allen Carbon wrote:

haha the advantages of being a big guy... I'm a small asian boy haha.

I'm mainly around Quezon city, sooo kinda like manila.. a bit more compact and less safe haha. How do you take photos though? do you get annoyed that people would just look at you since you stand out?

I don't mind the attention at all, kind of makes me feel like a celebrity. I get asked all the time "are you a wrestler"! The problem is that I can't blend in to take candid shots easily. You being "a small Asian boy" gives you a big advantage for getting great candid's. Because I'm a giant in the Philippines most of the photos I take are with big smiles looking into the camera... it is what it is!