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I'm f-ing terrified - pls help!
On the 15th of February this year I did two TFP shoots with an amateur photographer who I'd met only once previously after discussing these shoots over email and text message. We had organised that I would get 200 photos for my work, and he could keep whatever was left over for his own portfolio, as he wanted the practice and we took over 900 photos. There was a few back and forth messages and then on the 25th of Feb I got a message from him that stated he would have them to me by the "end of the week", most likely referring to the 28th or 29th of Feb. I sent text messages on the 6th, 8th, and 11th of March along with emails, facebook messages, phone calls and modelmayhem messages. All gone unanswered. Sick with worry, I desperately tried to get in contact with him by asking his partner via facebook if she could get him to call me. So on Saturday the 14th of March I got a cranky message from him telling me to "stop messaging his girlfriend" (which I did only once) and that his Nan had died and he wasn't coping. I told him that I would have been fine with waiting if he had kept in contact with me. I then sent text messages on the 4th of April, and the 6th of April, and modelmayhem messages, and facebook messages. All ignored. So I contacted the partner again, out of sheer fear and desperation. He contacted me, told me I was unprofessional, that he had no contractual obligation here and he would be happy to delete the photos and cease contact. I AM NOT OKAY WITH THIS. I spent time and money on these shoots, was always perfectly kind and professional and empathetic of his situation, he ignored me for an entire month and then had the audacity to call me unprofessional. I have, once again, left multiple voicemails, text messages, facebook messages and mm messages. I need my god damn photos, and I WILL not stop until I have them. Obviously, being nude photographs, I'm not comfortable with someone's word that they've deleted them when this person has acted like this for two months. I'm not okay with being punished for trying to get into contact with him. What kind of rights do I have to my photos? I've even offered to pay him for photos he was going to delete anyway, because I'm that desperate to get them back. I'm 100% determined but I feel like I'm fighting a losing battle because he's just ignoring me. I'm literally being driven crazy by this asshole, I haven't slept all week and I've had to increase my f-ing anxiety meds because I keep having attacks in the middle of the night. This isn't fair. I need help, please. I'm begging you. Apr 07 15 03:44 am Link Sorry about the pictures. I think you may want to consider whether modelling is the right activity for you. There will be glitches and it seems they may bother you overly much. The repeated messaging and messaging of photographer's partners is not generally likely to result in positive responses and outcomes. Sometimes the best course of action is to walk away from a situation and take a break to calm down. Apr 07 15 04:36 am Link Given what you have written My guess is that you will not be getting the photos ( as the photographer sounds like a flake ) So given that you are ( in my opinion ) working yourself into needless and pointless anxiety Accept what has happened , learn from it and move on I am sure though that your photographer / model community is small there - and word does get around about photographers who mistreat models ( as you have been mistreated ) Word should get around Apr 07 15 04:46 am Link Did you sign a release? If not, then simply send him a message telling him that he does not have your permission to use, or publish the photos unless you can come to a written agreement. Although he does own the copyright to the images his use of said photos is limited. I also suggest you consult a lawyer to ascertain, more specifically, your rights in this matter. Sorry about your bad experience. Apr 07 15 04:49 am Link Let it go. You have no control over the situation. You should know better than to contact someone you have no business contacting, twice! Take his word for it that he deleted the photos. I am guessing the photos were not good or you would have gotten them when he said he would. Learn from this. Apr 07 15 05:27 am Link I'm sorry that you've had to experience this sort of thing. This is a story I've been hearing a lot as of late. For the life of me, I don't understand why photographers won't give models their photos. It doesn't take much to upload photos to a file site (box, dropbox, etc.) and share the link with the model. Apr 07 15 06:13 am Link I'm sorry you had a bad experience here. You are having a very strong reaction to a situation you have very little control. The simple fact is that amateurs, professionals, and even corporations make mistakes and fail to deliver sometimes. If all your efforts so far have not resulted in a positive outcome, then more of the same is very unlikely to change anything. You are far better off investing your time and creative energy in a new paid shoot with a great photographer as a work for hire. They may even agree to let you bring a memory card and take the photos home with you right after the shoot so you have full control and possession of the photos without any complications. Let this go and move forward. Apr 07 15 06:34 am Link As other people have said, it happens. However, I would really question if you're ok with modelling, and especially nude modelling, if the shoot and resulting images have made you so anxious. When you're nude on the internet you have NO control over where your photos end up - neither does the photographer. It's just a right click or a screen grab and people can post whatever they want, wherever they want, with no real way of putting the genie back in the bottle. If you're on Zivity and Gods Girls your images will go elsewhere on the internet (I speak from experience re: Gods Girls). So that said, maybe this is for the best. If you do decide to stay the course, it's worth remembering that 200 photos is an absurd amount to get from a test shoot. Even if you're shooting a set, that's still a lot. Standard shoots are just a few images per look. If you're shooting sets, look at the number needed and decide how many you're shooting. Also remember that if you want to use the photographs on website you'll need a release signed by the photographer. Also, by your own admission it sounds a lot like you started harassing the photographer. A week after they were due you were blowing up 5 different means of contact. Then moved onto his girlfriend. That's just not ok, regardless of the images. I can assure you if someone started hounding my husband for photographs because they were a week late, I would use far harsher language than 'unprofessional'. So yeah, the fact that you've had no images for a TF shoot is (unfortunately) not uncommon and not really the biggest issue here. Apr 07 15 06:46 am Link Lillie-Rose Apr 07 15 07:14 am Link Jeffrey M Fletcher wrote: +1 Apr 07 15 07:44 am Link I'm sorry about your experience. You cannot change the past, but learn from it. From now on, always sign a model release or a contract and check the photographer's references. If I were you I would contact a lawyer to see what you can do about what happened. By the way, 200 pics in a TFCD? Is not that weird? Apr 07 15 07:49 am Link Lillie-Rose wrote: Your reaction, IMHO, is way overblown and lacking maturity and perspective. Since we have heard only your side of the story, it's pretty hard to judge what right or wrong. However if your approach has been as uncivil and immature as your utterings here, it's no wonder to me that the photographer had enough early on. Apr 07 15 07:56 am Link to me terrifying would be being in that plane where the pilot crashed it on purpose. getting stiffed on a TF shoot would make most people mad, but terrified? then again the australians i've known have been kind of excitable people so maybe it's a cultural thing. sometimes for your mental health i think you just have to walk away, even if you feel you've been wronged by the other party. i had someone on here rip me off for $150 and for a time i was really upset. but i decided that i wouldn't let them ruin the overall mayhem experience. if you read the forums you'll see that this is a very popular topic (unfortunately). focus on the next shoot and maybe let this one go for now. who knows, maybe in time the photographer will get over losing his Nan? What's a Nan? mother? i've seen people completely lose it when their parents pass. TF is a crapshoot. i think most of us have had our share of flaky models and/or photographers. and sometimes the shoots just don't turn out but no photographer wants to admit that. hopefully over time you'll have enough positive experiences that you'll totally forget about the bad ones. i worry a bit that modeling might be too stressful for you. or maybe you need to find a photographer you trust and work mostly with them (even if you have to pay them). or become a photographer yourself so you have control. Apr 07 15 08:14 am Link Sounds to me like you are panicking and freaking out. On the one hand I can understand what it is like to have creative frustration and wanting to see the outcome of a shoot, on the other hand this is going too far from what little feedback he is giving you. edit: you shot nudes? Still, I'd let it go, there is nothing good to come from your behavior in this. Also sounds to me like you are spiraling out of control and bombarding him with messages week after week and reaching out to strangers to you in order to get to him. This actually has a lot in common with disordered behavior, (freaking out and panic rather than realizing the other person is busy.) I'd let it go, walk away and try to regain your composure. If I were the photographer, I would send you your money back and possibly block you on all social media to prevent this from escalating. In your defense, maybe no one ever told you not to chase someone through their unsuspecting friends but, that has a lot in common with borderline personality disorder. Apr 07 15 08:25 am Link Jeffrey M Fletcher wrote: +10 Garry K wrote: +10 Isis22 wrote: +10 ValHig wrote: +50 Apr 07 15 08:43 am Link I agree with most of the other comments. 200 shots for TF is crazy high and should have sounded alarms. Especially in such a short period of time. Unless he was proving raw images, there's no way he can have that kind of output in less than 2 weeks as an amateur photographer. What are you terrified about? That he has nude photos of you? If he's not trustworthy and won't delete them, why would you trust him to get rid of them after he sends you copies? This part of the issue doesn't change, no matter if he provides you copies or not. There's nothing here to panic about. I do think that you should take this opportunity to learn as much as you can. I think that I would have trouble dealing with someone who started contacting my significant other right after a shoot. I pride myself on always delivering what was promised, but that kind of behavior would make it a lot tougher for me to put my best foot forward. Apr 07 15 09:28 am Link Lillie-Rose wrote: It's very unlikely that there are more than 200 worthwhile photos in a two hour shoot. Doubtless the photographer is embarrassed Lillie-Rose wrote: You are terrified? Pity the poor photographer! Lillie-Rose wrote: OTOH you did not expect him to delete them in the first place. Apr 07 15 10:09 am Link ontherocks wrote: Grandmother. Apr 07 15 10:12 am Link Lillie-Rose wrote: If I were the photographer, I would immediately send OP the 200 worst, unretouched. Apr 07 15 10:16 am Link I think it may be the photographer that is F...ing Terrified. Apr 07 15 10:18 am Link Learning experience. If you had an agreement for a number of images, spell it out in writing. Both parties sign. Pretty simple contract. The money spent on that shoot I assume is on clothing/props and travel expenses. The later is gone. The former can be used with another photographer. The photographer should have delivered a DVD full of images per your agreement. You should not have to contact him multiple times to get it. As long as he thinks you are unprofessional, you have two choices - take the high road and move on, or show him what unprofessional really means. I do not advocate the latter. Doubtful either will get you the images. Apr 07 15 10:25 am Link Mark Salo wrote: And the OP should then post and credit you for the most horrible image. Apr 07 15 10:27 am Link Sorry to hear what you went through. The real sad thing is there is not much you can do about it other than taking it as a loss. lesson learned? review and revise your screening methods, criteria, and procedures next time. my question is why would you even bother with an 'amateur' as you said? you should have no problem finding sometone more 'established' to tf with you. Apr 07 15 10:37 am Link I haven't slept all week and I've had to increase my f-ing anxiety meds because I keep having attacks in the middle of the night.This isn't fair. I need help, please. I'm begging you. This is highly alarming, from a photographers perspective. Your reaction, IMHO, is way overblown and lacking maturity and perspective. Since we have heard only your side of the story, it's pretty hard to judge what right or wrong. However if your approach has been as uncivil and immature as your utterings here, it's no wonder to me that the photographer had enough early on. If you're not comfortable with nude photographs out there of you.......then DO NOT pose naked. You've joined an ALT website, better get more than comfortable with nudes of you out in the big wide world. Apr 07 15 10:51 am Link Maybe modeling isn't for you, after all. It's not for everyone . . . . Apr 07 15 11:07 am Link Lillie-Rose, 200 photos is a lot. Was the plan to use them for content on Gods Girls? If that was the plan then rather then do TF. Find someone and pay them. Contacting people the photographer knows is disturbing and something way out of line. Wait a few more weeks. Contact him again and explain that you were excited to see some of the work and does he have anything ready yet. If he doesn't respond don't write or call again. A few posters have mentioned lawyers, etc. Even with some sort of signed contract it may be difficult and expensive to get them to do anything. You may not want to hear this but odds are you may never receive the photos. In the future if you need content done. If that was what it was for ask other GG models in your area who they worked with or just pay a local photographer. Apr 07 15 11:10 am Link Despayre You know, saying that you don't need to be redundant and repeat all the things that have been said here seems rather shallow coming after you just repeated everything that was said here, and added your little +10s and +50s. Like to pile on? Apr 07 15 11:28 am Link Lillie-Rose wrote: I am trying not to repeat what others already said, I just want to give you an additional perspective on things: Apr 07 15 12:03 pm Link Lillie-Rose wrote: Why do you need 200 ? Apr 07 15 12:29 pm Link Lillie-Rose wrote: When you point at someone there are usually three fingers pointing back at the real culprit. Apr 07 15 12:43 pm Link remind me never to ask you on a date...I'm sure I'll be filing harassment charges. Seriously, like others have stated...modeling is not for you. If you continue to pursue it, I'd suggest reading a little before your next shoot- https://www.modelmayhem.com/forums/post/133755 Apr 07 15 01:39 pm Link OP (= Original Poster = you), tough crowd here, but I suggest you carefully read all comments. Those that are telling you about your unfortunate experience are correct, and you most likely think that they really get you. The others, who actually criticize you, and whom you might think a**holes!, like it or not, they are correct as well. The important lesson here is to realize that like in any other industry, this one has multiple layers, where everybody needs to pay their dues to climb up. You're at the level where similar experiences might come to other people, and if you really don't like hearing that you should doubt if modelling is your thing, then I suggest you buckle up and grow a pair! “For those of us climbing to the top of the food chain, there can be no mercy. There is but one rule: hunt or be hunted.” - Frank Underwood (House of Cards) Apr 07 15 02:58 pm Link BODYSHOP FEETURES wrote: Note OP is in Australia, sure the above is true there? I'm not saying it is or isn't just that one needs to know the laws there before knowing if this is correct advice. Apr 07 15 03:15 pm Link Fleming Design wrote: Saves her reading the same content in different words, yes, please pile on my opinion which is the exact same as most of the other responses, more easily digested in that format. Definitely add my opinion to that pile. Apr 07 15 03:20 pm Link Ken Marcus Studios wrote: I like it that you still hang out here as a voice of reason. Apr 07 15 03:30 pm Link Lillie-Rose wrote: On that bolded point, which no one else seems to have picked up on, I would suggest that he is quite wrong. There was an offer; there was an acceptance; there was consideration promised [the images and a license, at some level, to use them] albeit unfulfilled / unpaid; and there was both intent to enter into the agreement and performance on your part, That says "contract" to me, even if it was not a written contract. In fact it says "breach of contract" on his part. Apr 07 15 03:43 pm Link -If it was that important for you to have these images right away you should have asked him if he could give you a CD of the images WAYY prior to the actual shoot -I know you are anxious but you need to force yourself to be a little more patient... I don't mean to sound mean but you may have gotten on the photographers nerves with the extreme contact If someone were to harass me to do something over and over and over then I would NEVER do it (them pressuring me would have the opposite effect on me) Don't do nudes if it disturbs you that the photographer has them. You aren't going to get a single image if you overwhelm him/pressure him... You need to be polite, patient, and courteous in this industry even if you don't feel like it. It is never acceptable to go off on someone like that. Apr 07 15 04:36 pm Link Lillie-Rose wrote: studio36uk wrote: He can't sell the photos without paperwork, model release, etc.. If the photos do turn up online you can sue. Past that - if they do turn up online no one really cares as much as you think they might. The net is flooded with nudes. Apr 07 15 05:07 pm Link JBerman Photography wrote: +1 Apr 07 15 06:10 pm Link As rude as it sounds (and I honestly don't mean to be rude) you sound like a crazy ex girlfriend. Leave the man be, leave his girlfriend alone, don't message him again. Count this as a lost. It happens sometimes. I'm still waiting on photos from 2 years ago. Just let it go and move on. Apr 07 15 06:42 pm Link |
