rfordphotos wrote:
must be spooky, always finding conspiracy behind every corner.

I dont suppose any amount of science or statistical fact will have any impact.

yup, and the fact that preventive medicine is always cheaper than curative one.
Imagine an avoidable chronic illness, that's where the money is.

rfordphotos wrote:
must be spooky, always finding conspiracy behind every corner.

I dont suppose any amount of science or statistical fact will have any impact.

I would agree with you if we didn't have two children maimed by vaccines in my family (both by M.M.R.).

1. My brother suffers from a bone growth disorder following a super-high fever from the shot.

2. A nephew died from a neuroma (nerve cancer) that formed and later metastasized at the site of his M.M.R. shot.

This type of thing has happened before:  http://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/ … ing-virus/

So, even if it were not a conspiracy, we live in a world of non-stop profiteering with no regard to consequences.  Now, they want to inject something into your child (or actually hundreds of somethings).  Not sure about you, but kinda makes me go "MMMMM..."

R Bruce Duncan wrote:
Sorry, Adam-

Guess I missed it.

The vaccine question?

Were you going to ask if vaccines save lives?

+1

and IBTL

R Bruce Duncan wrote:
Sorry, Adam-

Guess I missed it.

The vaccine question?

Were you going to ask if vaccines save lives?

The question is weather it makes sense to 'assume' the benefits out way the risks.  Most Americans have questions about G.M.O. foods, public monetary policy, Pharmaceuticals, the IRS, defense contractors, artificial intelligence,  the safety of cell phones, Guantanamo Bay and PRETTY MUCH every other thing we deal with from both business and government, and yet despite a track record of serious problems, we think nothing of letting the same people inject mysterious substances in our children and even question the parental rights of those who, choose not too after reviewing pro and cons. 

Is it just me, or is this America's new sacred cow (the thing you dare not questions, or the whole house falls down?).

Adam Albrec wrote:
The question is weather....

That narrows it down a little!

If the question is weather, the answer is obviously Yes!!!

Jerry Nemeth wrote:
The kids have had all their vaccinations.

pfft, you bought into that nonsense?

GK photo wrote:

pfft, you bought into that nonsense?

Yes.

Jerry Nemeth wrote:

Yes.

the sarcastic tone was really being directed at adam. i was just using you as a conduit. just in case you thought i was serious.

GK photo wrote:

the sarcastic tone was really being directed at adam. i was just using you as a conduit. just in case you thought i was serious.

I knew. 

Michael Bots wrote:
I will pick flu (every 6 to 8  years on average) over how sick the flu shot makes me.

It may kill you the next time.  It's a serious illness.

Jerry Nemeth wrote:
It may kill you the next time.  It's a serious illness.

Contraindicated --  another dose of vaccine might kill me - and I am not the one who wrote it up in my medical record.

My left arm is still damaged from the shot I got 6 years ago - still hurts a little (and continuously) - and it's half the strength of my other arm.

Like I said - I will choose flu over that and the other symptoms any day.

    locally
Flu shot blamed for paralysis
.http://www.torontosun.com/news/columnists/michele_mandel/2010/02/06/12774076.html


Don't Believe Everything You Read About Flu Deaths
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/lawrence-s … 61442.html

"According to the National Vital Statistics System in the U.S., for example, annual flu deaths in 2010 amounted to just 500 per year -- fewer than deaths from ulcers (2,977), hernias (1,832) and pregnancy and childbirth (825), and a far cry from the big killers such as heart disease (597,689) and cancers (574,743). The story is similar in Canada, where unlikely killers likewise dwarf Statistics Canada's count of flu deaths.

Even that 500 figure for the U.S. could be too high, ----- (more)"

Michael Bots wrote:

Contraindicated --  another dose of vaccine might kill me - and I am not the one who wrote it up in my medical record.

My left arm is still damaged from the shot I got 6 years ago - still hurts a little - half the strength of my other arm.

It still may kill you.

Cherrystone wrote:
+1

and IBTL

You don't see too many cases of polio anymore. That and I am lucky to be here -- my dad had the measles and the mumps at the same time and almost died.

Also I suffer from shingles -- if I had been vaccinated against the chicken pox I would not suffer from shingles today.

Adam Albrec wrote:
The question is weather it makes sense to 'assume' the benefits out way the risks.

speaking of way out...or out way...

Adam Albrec wrote:
and yet despite a track record of serious problems, we think nothing of letting the same people inject mysterious substances in our children and even question the parental rights of those who, choose not too after reviewing pro and cons.

are you at all aware of the statistics regarding immunizations, and their track record, since being instituted on a mass scale in the us? are you aware of the diseases that had been effectively eliminated due to them?

sorry dude, but if the ridiculous mentality of the anti vaxxer crowd takes hold, we're looking at a shit storm of biblical proportions. luckily--for now--these nuts are pretty much only on the extreme poles of society, and will probably stay there. at least i hope so.

Adam Albrec wrote:
Think back to the last time you felt that industry and government had your best interests at heart.

That would be the time that never happened. Because they don't. Industry has its bottom line as its primary interest: maximize profits, minimize costs. Government is there to establish and preserve order, not to facilitate the "best interests" of anyone. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are what that order should be defending. Not enforcing it, not impeding it, just defending it.

Adam Albrec wrote:
Think back to the last few things that have been forced/attempted on the American People:

1. The Patriot Act,
2. The Bailouts,
3. The Iraq War,
4. S.O.P.A.
5. A.C.T.A.
6. The T.P.P.
7. etc, etc, etc.....

Yup. There are always issues that need to be addressed... some more urgently than others. 

Adam Albrec wrote:
If government, the super-rich elites and corporations all agree that Vaccinations are CRITICAL - then how good for your children are they likely to be?

Oh, for fuck's sake.

Adam Albrec wrote:
Ask yourself.

The overall pattern seems to be that whatever you are told will happen if you don't give them what they want - is what winds up happening if you do.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_syphilis_experiment

Seriously? Alluding to one of the most shameful moments in this country's history to argue against vaccinations? This thread is doomed.

GK photo wrote:
are you at all aware of the statistics regarding immunizations, and their track record, since being instituted on a mass scale in the us? are you aware of the diseases that had been effectively eliminated due to them?

Your comments are fun and witty and all, but sadly, the statistics show that most diseases were already in full decline before vaccinations became the norm.  http://healthimpactnews.com/2015/the-tr … ppressing/  (most likely because of improved nutrition and sanitation).  I am the fist to admit that science should lead before conjecture, but very often lately Liberals and Conservatives alike have setup assumptions (like Ansel Keys low-fat doctrines) that simply don't hold up in the light of day.  To assume that anyone with a white coat on is incapable of lying to you, is choosing to be a statistic.  Just as the US Government told Nevada/Utah residents for over a decade that nuclear tests in the desert were safe, or how Monsanto told us for years that Nutrasweet was safe (after thousands of cancer/nerve-damage cases), it is STUPID to blindly follow ANYONE where money, or political advantage is at steak. 

Representative Democracy is a bit like saying "Blackish-White", Just as Free Markets, pretty-much always end in monopolies.  To all you whales following the leaders onto the beach, I wish-you the best, but the capacity for objective reasoning has never been more important than it is now.

Lovely Day Media wrote:
We had a similar discussion here not that long ago. It more or less ended with people calling me an idiot for not rushing out to get whatever vaccine some doctor, the CDC or the government said was good for preventing disease ... when no one else was/is rushing out to get said vaccine, either. I'm an idiot because I'm waiting for all new vaccines to develop a track record of success.  If that makes me an idiot, I'm a proud idiot.

For this reason, I'm staying out of this one.

Nice post, Lovely Day-

But... you don't get to post and stay out of the discussion?

Good try, though!!!

Lovely Day Media wrote:
We had a similar discussion here not that long ago. It more or less ended with people calling me an idiot for not rushing out to get whatever vaccine some doctor, the CDC or the government said was good for preventing disease ... when no one else was/is rushing out to get said vaccine, either. I'm an idiot because I'm waiting for all new vaccines to develop a track record of success.  If that makes me an idiot, I'm a proud idiot.

For this reason, I'm staying out of this one.

there are huge differences between not wanting to "go out" and get some latest vaccination, vs purposely avoiding having your children inoculated against all "the hits". i don't care if you don't want to get a flu shot. i've only gotten one in my lifetime.

the crowd that is avoiding getting the mmr vaccine for their children, based on some phony conspiracy theories (or worse, quack, debunked 'science') should be sent away to siberia. maybe polio can't take the cold.

Adam Albrec wrote:

Your comments are fun and witty and all, but sadly, the statistics show that most diseases were already in full decline before vaccinations became the norm.  http://healthimpactnews.com/2015/the-tr … ppressing/  (most likely because of improved nutrition and sanitation).  I am the fist to admit that science should lead before conjecture, but very often lately Liberals and Conservatives alike have setup assumptions (like Ansel Keys low-fat doctrines) that simply don't hold up in the light of day.  To assume that anyone with a white coat on is incapable of lying to you, is choosing to be a statistic.  Just as the US Government told Nevada/Utah residents for over a decade that nuclear tests in the desert were safe, or how Monsanto told us for years that Nutrasweet was safe (after thousands of cancer/nerve-damage cases), it is STUPID to blindly follow ANYONE where money, or political advantage is at steak. 

Representative Democracy is a bit like saying "Blackish-White", Just as Free Markets, pretty-much always end in monopolies.  To all you whales following the leaders onto the beach, I wish-you the best, but the capacity for objective reasoning has never been more important than it is now.

nvm...had it, but deleted. not worth it. have fun living in constant fear of the shadowy folks who conspire to ruin your existence.

Gryph wrote:


Welcome to Mayhem.  As far as vaccinations go, the last one I got was the chicken pox one back in my childhood.  I haven't seen a doc in a little more than 16 years.  I'm not going anywhere, and gov't isn't going to make that decision for me.

I am alive and healthy thanks to not doing what the government or some researchers tells me to do.

To be honest, the chances are that you are way beyond the age most vaccines are aimed at?

Most importantly, though, there's a better than good chance that you benefit from herd immunity.

All you neighbors were vaccinated.

Oh, and yes... ultimately you're "...going..." somewhere.

Like all of us.

Carry on.

R Bruce Duncan wrote:
Most importantly, though, there's a better than good chance that you benefit from herd immunity.

All you neighbors were vaccinated.

.

that seems to be lost on a lot of the vaccine nuts, as evidenced by the recent outbreak at disneyland. like i pointed out in the old thread. it's a very interesting mix of folks who are clamoring to this idea that childhood vaccines are causing harm to their children.

R Bruce Duncan wrote:

To be honest, the chances are that you are way beyond the age most vaccines are aimed at?

Most importantly, though, there's a better than good chance that you benefit from herd immunity.

All you neighbors were vaccinated.

Oh, and yes... ultimately you're "...going..." somewhere.

Like all of us.

Carry on.

Quite possibly.  Then again, I've never cared much for hospital or clinic visits.

Granted I don't have children, these are the decisions I make for myself.

If I traveled out of the country then I would get the required vaccinations that is required of me to get.  Outside of that, you can forget about it.

Allen Carbon wrote:
FFS

The stupidity in some people about this topic just flat out frustrates me.

one of the biggest flagship arguments for the anti vaccination cooks are that "big corporations run the tests" "how much do you think they get paid to have a positive answer" etc etc.

Independent research have also been done, entire universities have had their entire resources pooled into this research and thousands upon thousands of doctors have approved it. They all pointed towards the positive effects of vaccinations.

It's people that think every research is rigged against their favour that seemingly finds wildly inaccurate facts cited from  wildly discredited Doctors. People thinking that the people are bought out to sway the research.

I don't mind getting brigged for this because some people just need to hear it. But people are actually actively stupid.

I am guessing you are also one of those who believe that Nader cost the Dems the Whitehouse.  This blue vs red (smart vs redneck) thing assumes that one of the two is right, when in reality they are both just as lame and self-serving.  The last good Republican was Eisenhower and the last good Democrat was Roosevelt.  We have now entered the cloudy waters of Corporatocracy and Fascism of marriage between business and the state. 

The problem is hierarchy and the assumption that leadership is the answer.  Weather the leaders are scientists or businessmen they are pretty much all against the little guy.  Just as the Marque de Sade noted in his time relating to public battles between monarchy and clergy.